Trump's tariff plan could boomerang, spark trade wars with China, Mexico

[NightFox]

led to trading partner retaliation.

.

What are they going to do though?

For starters they'll slap comparable import duties on our exports and thus cost U.S. Exporters jobs, they're also likely to cut back on government purchases from U.S. companies which will end up costing more jobs and finally they could easily stop/cut-back on lending our Federal Government money and/or dump treasuries on the open market.

We have a 400 something billion dollar deficit with them a YEAR. I think that is something important to remember.
If they dump it, they will lose billions.
China doesn't like losing money. That much is certain lol.
We would have to have them on a ledge of a cliff to do those things. IMO

Yes it will hurt the Chinese economy but they are in a position to absolutely DEVASTATE our economy if we back them into a corner, do you really want to put your and your families standard of living at risk based on Donald the Demagogues laughably simplistic "plan" ? He's got nothing to lose whereas you and your family have everything to lose when it turns out that the Chinese aren't going to sit idly by while we openly attack their economy and violate our trade agreements.

 

[Dale Smith]

Trade wars was a significant spark that helped set up the Great Depression. In addition to that, there is absolutely only 2 possible outcomes for creating a tariff: 1. American consumers pay more for the product, or 2. Trade will diminish in both countries. neither of these scenarios are good for America. Trump is either a fool, or a snake oil salesman. I strongly suspect the later.

You are absolutely full of shit. The Market Crash was totally orchestrated by the very bankers that pushed the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 that claimed that if they were put in charge of the money supply that the panics of 1907 and 1910 would never happen again. The market crash was due to margin calls on people that had bought stock for ten percent down and a lot of money was made but then the banking oligarchs cashed out of the market and then called in the loans and that was what caused a run on the bank AND because the banks didn't have 100 percent of their money...market crashes, stock prices drop down to nothing ..... then the Morgans, Rockefellers, Rothschilds, Warburgs, etc, etc re-enter the market and buy up controlling shares in corporations that they coveted as well as unaffiliated banks...tariffs didn't have a fucking thing to do with it. Wilson negated a great many of those tariffs in 1913 that helped fund "da gubermint" and instead pushed an income tax on the labor of the people the same year the Fed banker act passed...and it was no coincidence. Consider yourself "schooled" yet again.....

 

[Correll]

and so what? we should continue being screwed over because it might upset China, and other foreign counties?

Please explain exactly how we're getting "screwed over" ? American consumers and businesses are the ones that want the cheaper goods that foreign manufacturing offers to us for sale, does anybody want to pay an additional 45% on the goods that they buy that are manufactured in China? and that 45% goes to government NOT the businesses that are selling those products here so given that increasing prices will drive volume down it's likely to mean domestic job losses and reduced buying power for American Consumers (i.e. lower standard of living).

Trumps plan is nothing more than protectionism which has historically had detrimental effects on domestic economies and led to trading partner retaliation.

If one wants to bring back manufacturing to the U.S. and do it in a way that is healthy for the long-term economy, then one needs to address the costs (regulatory, taxation and labor) that drove manufacturing off shore in the first place.

Link showing historical detrimental effects on domestic economies.

 

[TNHarley]

led to trading partner retaliation.

.

What are they going to do though?

For starters they'll slap comparable import duties on our exports and thus cost U.S. Exporters jobs, they're also likely to cut back on government purchases from U.S. companies which will end up costing more jobs and finally they could easily stop/cut-back on lending our Federal Government money and/or dump treasuries on the open market.

We have a 400 something billion dollar deficit with them a YEAR. I think that is something important to remember.
If they dump it, they will lose billions.
China doesn't like losing money. That much is certain lol.
We would have to have them on a ledge of a cliff to do those things. IMO

Yes it will hurt the Chinese economy but they are in a position to absolutely DEVASTATE our economy if we back them into a corner, do you really want to put your and your families standard of living at risk based on Donald the Demagogues laughably simplistic "plan" ? He's got nothing to lose whereas you and your family have everything to lose when it turns out that the Chinese aren't going to sit idly by while we openly attack their economy and violate our trade agreements.

My ideas on trade have been the same since before Donald got on the scene. He is just relaying what I already think about.
We could devastate them too. Do you not understand what missing 500 billion dollars a year would do to their economy? They are an export economy.. They know that. That's why they are trying to shift to a consumer based economy. lol
Hardships now would be fine with me if that means my kids will have a future that doesn't include stocking foreign junk for artificial wages.
I try to look long term.

 

[mrbojanglezs]

so we are supposed to bring other countries cheap labor goods in scott free and we can't do the same in these countries? sounds fair

 

[TNHarley]

Btw trump don't like those corporate whore agreements.
Renegotiations you say?

 

[NightFox]

led to trading partner retaliation.

.

What are they going to do though?

For starters they'll slap comparable import duties on our exports and thus cost U.S. Exporters jobs, they're also likely to cut back on government purchases from U.S. companies which will end up costing more jobs and finally they could easily stop/cut-back on lending our Federal Government money and/or dump treasuries on the open market.

We have a 400 something billion dollar deficit with them a YEAR. I think that is something important to remember.
If they dump it, they will lose billions.
China doesn't like losing money. That much is certain lol.
We would have to have them on a ledge of a cliff to do those things. IMO

Yes it will hurt the Chinese economy but they are in a position to absolutely DEVASTATE our economy if we back them into a corner, do you really want to put your and your families standard of living at risk based on Donald the Demagogues laughably simplistic "plan" ? He's got nothing to lose whereas you and your family have everything to lose when it turns out that the Chinese aren't going to sit idly by while we openly attack their economy and violate our trade agreements.

My ideas on trade have been the same since before Donald got on the scene. He is just relaying what I already think about.
We could devastate them too. Do you not understand what missing 500 billion dollars a year would do to their economy? They are an export economy.. They know that. That's why they are trying to shift to a consumer based economy. lol
Hardships now would be fine with me if that means my kids will have a future that doesn't include stocking foreign junk for artificial wages.
I try to look long term.

Yes China is largely an export driven economy that sells globally not just to the U.S. they have a low cost manufacturing base and hold trillions of dollars in U.S. debt not to mention tight government control on their economy and their population, they can weather the storm because they have a population that largely has a low standard of living, how long do you think the American Citizenry is going to stand for very high unemployment and a rapidly declining standard of living?

The Chinese have been subsidizing OUR standard of living by deferring consumption and loaning us the goods and money that WE need to maintain our standard of living, now You and Trump want to openly challenge them to take away the punch bowl? What exactly do you think that's going to accomplish? Do You think suddenly manufacturers are going to ignore the fact that they cannot be globally competitive by manufacturing goods in the U.S.? Are you prepared for the possibility that the Chinese may well decide to crash our bond markets by dumping all the U.S. debt they hold?

Trump's "plan" doesn't address the root causes of the problems heck it doesn't even address the symptoms of it, it's simply the same old protectionist demagoguery wrapped in a bad hair cut.

 

[the_human_being]

led to trading partner retaliation.

.

What are they going to do though?

For starters they'll slap comparable import duties on our exports and thus cost U.S. Exporters jobs, they're also likely to cut back on government purchases from U.S. companies which will end up costing more jobs and finally they could easily stop/cut-back on lending our Federal Government money and/or dump treasuries on the open market.

We have a 400 something billion dollar deficit with them a YEAR. I think that is something important to remember.
If they dump it, they will lose billions.
China doesn't like losing money. That much is certain lol.
We would have to have them on a ledge of a cliff to do those things. IMO

Yes it will hurt the Chinese economy but they are in a position to absolutely DEVASTATE our economy if we back them into a corner, do you really want to put your and your families standard of living at risk based on Donald the Demagogues laughably simplistic "plan" ? He's got nothing to lose whereas you and your family have everything to lose when it turns out that the Chinese aren't going to sit idly by while we openly attack their economy and violate our trade agreements.

Why are you so afraid of the Chinese? Many of their products are sub-par anyways. Remember the Chinese drywall? Right after Ivan hit, many companies imported the Chinese drywall and a lot of folks had to go back and rip it all out of their homes. I remember when one could purchase clothing manufactured to higher standards in the United States. Now, a whole lot of our clothing is manufactured in China and elsewhere. Before my wife and I were married, she worked at Vanity Fair, as did a lot of folks. Vanity Fair was one of the first major clothing manufacturers to leave the country. They took a lot of jobs with them. I would wager most of Vanity Fair's sales are in this country. Let's put a tariff on Vanity Fair's products and see what happens. It's high time we began looking out for our own interests without being afraid of what other nations think. We have the capabilities and resources that we can outlast most all of them.

 

[Correll]

What are they going to do though?

For starters they'll slap comparable import duties on our exports and thus cost U.S. Exporters jobs, they're also likely to cut back on government purchases from U.S. companies which will end up costing more jobs and finally they could easily stop/cut-back on lending our Federal Government money and/or dump treasuries on the open market.

We have a 400 something billion dollar deficit with them a YEAR. I think that is something important to remember.
If they dump it, they will lose billions.
China doesn't like losing money. That much is certain lol.
We would have to have them on a ledge of a cliff to do those things. IMO

Yes it will hurt the Chinese economy but they are in a position to absolutely DEVASTATE our economy if we back them into a corner, do you really want to put your and your families standard of living at risk based on Donald the Demagogues laughably simplistic "plan" ? He's got nothing to lose whereas you and your family have everything to lose when it turns out that the Chinese aren't going to sit idly by while we openly attack their economy and violate our trade agreements.

My ideas on trade have been the same since before Donald got on the scene. He is just relaying what I already think about.
We could devastate them too. Do you not understand what missing 500 billion dollars a year would do to their economy? They are an export economy.. They know that. That's why they are trying to shift to a consumer based economy. lol
Hardships now would be fine with me if that means my kids will have a future that doesn't include stocking foreign junk for artificial wages.
I try to look long term.

Yes China is largely an export driven economy that sells globally not just to the U.S. they have a low cost manufacturing base and hold trillions of dollars in U.S. debt not to mention tight government control on their economy and their population, they can weather the storm because they have a population that largely has a low standard of living, how long do you think the American Citizenry is going to stand for very high unemployment and a rapidly declining standard of living?

The Chinese have been subsidizing OUR standard of living by deferring consumption and loaning us the goods and money that WE need to maintain our standard of living, now You and Trump want to openly challenge them to take away the punch bowl? What exactly do you think that's going to accomplish? Do You think suddenly manufacturers are going to ignore the fact that they cannot be globally competitive by manufacturing goods in the U.S.? Are you prepared for the possibility that the Chinese may well decide to crash our bond markets by dumping all the U.S. debt they hold?

Trump's "plan" doesn't address the root causes of the problems heck it doesn't even address the symptoms of it, it's simply the same old protectionist demagoguery wrapped in a bad hair cut.

The Red Chinese government has no legitimacy with the death of Ideological Communism.

Their legitimacy, such as it is, is based on Chinese Nationalism and a long economic boom.

They are not "used to a low standard of living".

They are used to rapidly improving economic conditions and ill prepared for that to end.

 

[TNHarley]

What are they going to do though?

For starters they'll slap comparable import duties on our exports and thus cost U.S. Exporters jobs, they're also likely to cut back on government purchases from U.S. companies which will end up costing more jobs and finally they could easily stop/cut-back on lending our Federal Government money and/or dump treasuries on the open market.

We have a 400 something billion dollar deficit with them a YEAR. I think that is something important to remember.
If they dump it, they will lose billions.
China doesn't like losing money. That much is certain lol.
We would have to have them on a ledge of a cliff to do those things. IMO

Yes it will hurt the Chinese economy but they are in a position to absolutely DEVASTATE our economy if we back them into a corner, do you really want to put your and your families standard of living at risk based on Donald the Demagogues laughably simplistic "plan" ? He's got nothing to lose whereas you and your family have everything to lose when it turns out that the Chinese aren't going to sit idly by while we openly attack their economy and violate our trade agreements.

My ideas on trade have been the same since before Donald got on the scene. He is just relaying what I already think about.
We could devastate them too. Do you not understand what missing 500 billion dollars a year would do to their economy? They are an export economy.. They know that. That's why they are trying to shift to a consumer based economy. lol
Hardships now would be fine with me if that means my kids will have a future that doesn't include stocking foreign junk for artificial wages.
I try to look long term.

Yes China is largely an export driven economy that sells globally not just to the U.S. they have a low cost manufacturing base and hold trillions of dollars in U.S. debt not to mention tight government control on their economy and their population, they can weather the storm because they have a population that largely has a low standard of living, how long do you think the American Citizenry is going to stand for very high unemployment and a rapidly declining standard of living?

The Chinese have been subsidizing OUR standard of living by deferring consumption and loaning us the goods and money that WE need to maintain our standard of living, now You and Trump want to openly challenge them to take away the punch bowl? What exactly do you think that's going to accomplish? Do You think suddenly manufacturers are going to ignore the fact that they cannot be globally competitive by manufacturing goods in the U.S.? Are you prepared for the possibility that the Chinese may well decide to crash our bond markets by dumping all the U.S. debt they hold?

Trump's "plan" doesn't address the root causes of the problems heck it doesn't even address the symptoms of it, it's simply the same old protectionist demagoguery wrapped in a bad hair cut.

Its got to get bad before it gets better man. Sometimes that's just the way it has to be in order to fix things. We are getting fucked and something HAS to be done.

 

[defcon4]

America has everything that it needs right here. We do not need to import a damn thing. We have the manufacturing capabilities to make anything we need. If you want a German made car? Pony up and pay the tariff. We have to get rid of the foreign owned Fed bankers and return to the Constitution where we print our own interest free currency and regulate it. We FULLY audit the Fed bank (which has never been done in it's almost 103 years of existence. We then confiscate their ill-gotten hard assets and gains (that they acquired off of our sweat equity/labor) hold those assets in a trust. We then do a complete audit of the holdings of USA.INC via the Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports that would show that this massive corporate entity has been hoarding at least 60 TRILLION dollars in stock options, hard assets and other profitable ventures that they have stashed in offshore accounts and we put that in the trust. The next thing is that we have term limitations for politicians and only donations from Americans can be used to fund their campaigns with a limit on the amount you can give. Do away with the two party system because it does not work. We release the 6,000 or so patents that could get us off of any type of petroleum based fuel that has been suppressed under the guise of "national security". Last but not least, we hold a Nuremburg like trial for the crimes these elitists have committed against humanity. The drug trade, the world wide child prostitution/human trafficking ring they have profited off of. The wars that they have been behind while funding both sides. We do an audit of Fort Knox and I bet that we will find that our national gold reserve is nothing but lead bars covered with gold paint...then we take it back from the House of Rothschild that stole it. the biggest fear of this tiny core of elitists is that we will finally wake up to how we have been used which is why they have been intentionally poisoning and dumbing us down by poisoning our water, food and air while keeping us distracted with shit that doesn't matter.....rant over.

Thank you!

 

[the_human_being]

What are they going to do though?

For starters they'll slap comparable import duties on our exports and thus cost U.S. Exporters jobs, they're also likely to cut back on government purchases from U.S. companies which will end up costing more jobs and finally they could easily stop/cut-back on lending our Federal Government money and/or dump treasuries on the open market.

We have a 400 something billion dollar deficit with them a YEAR. I think that is something important to remember.
If they dump it, they will lose billions.
China doesn't like losing money. That much is certain lol.
We would have to have them on a ledge of a cliff to do those things. IMO

Yes it will hurt the Chinese economy but they are in a position to absolutely DEVASTATE our economy if we back them into a corner, do you really want to put your and your families standard of living at risk based on Donald the Demagogues laughably simplistic "plan" ? He's got nothing to lose whereas you and your family have everything to lose when it turns out that the Chinese aren't going to sit idly by while we openly attack their economy and violate our trade agreements.

My ideas on trade have been the same since before Donald got on the scene. He is just relaying what I already think about.
We could devastate them too. Do you not understand what missing 500 billion dollars a year would do to their economy? They are an export economy.. They know that. That's why they are trying to shift to a consumer based economy. lol
Hardships now would be fine with me if that means my kids will have a future that doesn't include stocking foreign junk for artificial wages.
I try to look long term.

Yes China is largely an export driven economy that sells globally not just to the U.S. they have a low cost manufacturing base and hold trillions of dollars in U.S. debt not to mention tight government control on their economy and their population, they can weather the storm because they have a population that largely has a low standard of living, how long do you think the American Citizenry is going to stand for very high unemployment and a rapidly declining standard of living?

The Chinese have been subsidizing OUR standard of living by deferring consumption and loaning us the goods and money that WE need to maintain our standard of living, now You and Trump want to openly challenge them to take away the punch bowl? What exactly do you think that's going to accomplish? Do You think suddenly manufacturers are going to ignore the fact that they cannot be globally competitive by manufacturing goods in the U.S.? Are you prepared for the possibility that the Chinese may well decide to crash our bond markets by dumping all the U.S. debt they hold?

Trump's "plan" doesn't address the root causes of the problems heck it doesn't even address the symptoms of it, it's simply the same old protectionist demagoguery wrapped in a bad hair cut.

Let them dump the debt. They simply won't get paid. They are manipulating their currency and taking advantage of us on all fronts. It's time for us to stop the 1/2 Trillion dollar trade imbalance.

 

[NightFox]

Why are you so afraid of the Chinese? .

Because unlike all the Trumpkin lemmings I understand what they are capable of doing to our economy if we push them too far and I'm not too keen on risking Great Depression V2.0 just so Donald the Douche Bag can service his massive ego.

 

[Correll]

Why are you so afraid of the Chinese? .

Because unlike all the Trumpkin lemmings I understand what they are capable of doing to our economy if we push them too far and I'm not too keen on risking Great Depression V2.0 just so Donald the Douche Bag can service his massive ego.

How long are you prepared to let the Middle Class stagnate?

 

[TNHarley]

I understand what they are capable of. I just also understand what we are capable of.

 

[the_human_being]

Why are you so afraid of the Chinese? .

Because unlike all the Trumpkin lemmings I understand what they are capable of doing to our economy if we push them too far and I'm not too keen on risking Great Depression V2.0 just so Donald the Douche Bag can service his massive ego.

So you are perfectly fine with continuing to allow the Chinese to screw us over to the tune of a 1/2 Trillion dollars a year. Fantastic.

 

[NightFox]

For starters they'll slap comparable import duties on our exports and thus cost U.S. Exporters jobs, they're also likely to cut back on government purchases from U.S. companies which will end up costing more jobs and finally they could easily stop/cut-back on lending our Federal Government money and/or dump treasuries on the open market.

We have a 400 something billion dollar deficit with them a YEAR. I think that is something important to remember.
If they dump it, they will lose billions.
China doesn't like losing money. That much is certain lol.
We would have to have them on a ledge of a cliff to do those things. IMO

Yes it will hurt the Chinese economy but they are in a position to absolutely DEVASTATE our economy if we back them into a corner, do you really want to put your and your families standard of living at risk based on Donald the Demagogues laughably simplistic "plan" ? He's got nothing to lose whereas you and your family have everything to lose when it turns out that the Chinese aren't going to sit idly by while we openly attack their economy and violate our trade agreements.

My ideas on trade have been the same since before Donald got on the scene. He is just relaying what I already think about.
We could devastate them too. Do you not understand what missing 500 billion dollars a year would do to their economy? They are an export economy.. They know that. That's why they are trying to shift to a consumer based economy. lol
Hardships now would be fine with me if that means my kids will have a future that doesn't include stocking foreign junk for artificial wages.
I try to look long term.

Yes China is largely an export driven economy that sells globally not just to the U.S. they have a low cost manufacturing base and hold trillions of dollars in U.S. debt not to mention tight government control on their economy and their population, they can weather the storm because they have a population that largely has a low standard of living, how long do you think the American Citizenry is going to stand for very high unemployment and a rapidly declining standard of living?

The Chinese have been subsidizing OUR standard of living by deferring consumption and loaning us the goods and money that WE need to maintain our standard of living, now You and Trump want to openly challenge them to take away the punch bowl? What exactly do you think that's going to accomplish? Do You think suddenly manufacturers are going to ignore the fact that they cannot be globally competitive by manufacturing goods in the U.S.? Are you prepared for the possibility that the Chinese may well decide to crash our bond markets by dumping all the U.S. debt they hold?

Trump's "plan" doesn't address the root causes of the problems heck it doesn't even address the symptoms of it, it's simply the same old protectionist demagoguery wrapped in a bad hair cut.

Let them dump the debt. They simply won't get paid.

LOL, apparently you don't understand how debt markets work.... you do realize that the Chinese dumping their holdings will mostly likely lead to a crash of our markets HERE in the U.S and huge losses for U.S. banks and other institutional/private bond holders. Did you guys already forget what happened in 2007-2008 when credit markets seized up? You want to risk going through that again and throw a 45% increase in consumer prices on top of it?

I was wrong, Trump and all his little Trumpkins aren't just ignorant, they're also CRAZY.

 

[Dragonlady]

and so what? we should continue being screwed over because it might upset China, and other foreign counties?

they are the part of the blame for where our country is now with thanks to these snake politicians like Bill Clinton and NAFTA and now Obama.

Don't forget about the republicans that support it

It took a democrat pushing harder than anything else in his terms to get it done.

Please don't try to pin NAFTA on Clinton. This entire fuck-up was the brain child of conservatives on both sides of the border. Neither Canada nor the US have achieved anything under NAFTA that was sold to our respective populations.

Preliminary agreement on NAFTA was signed in August of 1992, three months before Clinton was elected. It was sold as a popular initiative, opening up the US and Canadian markets to the free movement of goods and services. Americans saw it as an opportunity to buy up Canadian companies and move jobs to the US. Mexico was almost an after-thought. It was also seen by Americans as a vehicle to give Mexicans access to jobs in Mexico to stem the numbers of Mexicans streaming across the border, illegally or otherwise. It was supposed to spur manufacturing jobs in Canada.

NAFTA was the dream of Reagan and Mulroney. Negotiations were concluded under Bush1, and passed through the American Congress with nary a whisper, since Americans wanted access to the Canadian health care system in the hopes of "Americanizing" it. We have lots of privately owned and run clinics and labs in Canada, something Americans are largely kept in the dark about.

Canadian manufacturing, especially American-owned Canadian manufacturing, has been gutted in the wake of NAFTA, especially automobile manufacturing. General Motors, and its suppliers, employed 20,000 workers in the Canadian city of Oshawa in the 1980's. That number was reduced to 2,900 by 2010, and with the closure of the last of its Oshawa manufacturing plant in 2016, those jobs will be lost too. Oshawa is a ghost town these days, much like Detroit was 10 years ago.

Of course you want to pin NAFTA on Clinton, but Clinton was also in thrall to Milton Friedman and his free market economic principles, and so he preserved the supply side focus of Reagan/Bush administrations, to the detriment of the US economy.

 

[Freewill]

and so what? we should continue being screwed over because it might upset China, and other foreign counties?

they are the part of the blame for where our country is now with thanks to these snake politicians like Bill Clinton and NAFTA and now Obama.

Don't forget about the republicans that support it

It took a democrat pushing harder than anything else in his terms to get it done.

Please don't try to pin NAFTA on Clinton. This entire fuck-up was the brain child of conservatives on both sides of the border. Neither Canada nor the US have

Preliminary agreement on NAFTA was signed in August of 1992, three months before Clinton was elected. It was sold as a popular initiative, opening up the US and Canadian markets to the free movement of goods and services. Americans saw it as an opportunity to buy up Canadian companies and move jobs to the US. Mexico was almost an after-thought. It was also seen by Americans as a vehicle to give Mexicans access to jobs in Mexico to stem the numbers of Mexicans streaming across the border, illegally or otherwise. It was supposed to spur manufacturing jobs in Canada.

NAFTA was the dream of Reagan and Mulroney. Negotiations were concluded under Bush1, and passed through the American Congress with nary a whisper, since Americans wanted access to the Canadian health care system in the hopes of "Americanizing" it. We have lots of privately owned and run clinics and labs in Canada, something Americans are largely kept in the dark about.

Canadian manufacturing, especially American-owned Canadian manufacturing, has been gutted in the wake of NAFTA, especially automobile manufacturing. General Motors, and its suppliers, employed 20,000 workers in the Canadian city of Oshawa in the 1980's. That number was reduced to 2,900 by 2010, and with the closure of the last of its Oshawa manufacturing plant in 2016, those jobs will be lost too. Oshawa is a ghost town these days, much like Detroit was 10 years ago.

Of course you want to pin NAFTA on Clinton, but Clinton was also in thrall to Milton Friedman and his free market economic principles, and so he preserved the supply side focus of Reagan/Bush administrations, to the detriment of the US economy.

He who signed it, could have stopped it.

 

[TNHarley]

and so what? we should continue being screwed over because it might upset China, and other foreign counties?

they are the part of the blame for where our country is now with thanks to these snake politicians like Bill Clinton and NAFTA and now Obama.

Don't forget about the republicans that support it

It took a democrat pushing harder than anything else in his terms to get it done.

Please don't try to pin NAFTA on Clinton. This entire fuck-up was the brain child of conservatives on both sides of the border. Neither Canada nor the US have achieved anything under NAFTA that was sold to our respective populations.

Preliminary agreement on NAFTA was signed in August of 1992, three months before Clinton was elected. It was sold as a popular initiative, opening up the US and Canadian markets to the free movement of goods and services. Americans saw it as an opportunity to buy up Canadian companies and move jobs to the US. Mexico was almost an after-thought. It was also seen by Americans as a vehicle to give Mexicans access to jobs in Mexico to stem the numbers of Mexicans streaming across the border, illegally or otherwise. It was supposed to spur manufacturing jobs in Canada.

NAFTA was the dream of Reagan and Mulroney. Negotiations were concluded under Bush1, and passed through the American Congress with nary a whisper, since Americans wanted access to the Canadian health care system in the hopes of "Americanizing" it. We have lots of privately owned and run clinics and labs in Canada, something Americans are largely kept in the dark about.

Canadian manufacturing, especially American-owned Canadian manufacturing, has been gutted in the wake of NAFTA, especially automobile manufacturing. General Motors, and its suppliers, employed 20,000 workers in the Canadian city of Oshawa in the 1980's. That number was reduced to 2,900 by 2010, and with the closure of the last of its Oshawa manufacturing plant in 2016, those jobs will be lost too. Oshawa is a ghost town these days, much like Detroit was 10 years ago.

Of course you want to pin NAFTA on Clinton, but Clinton was also in thrall to Milton Friedman and his free market economic principles, and so he preserved the supply side focus of Reagan/Bush administrations, to the detriment of the US economy.

Oh dear god. He signed the fuckin thing. Get over it.