Trump's visit to Ohio gives Biden opportunity to note that Trump killed safety rules (Político analysis)

[Tom Paine 1949]

Traditional train braking systems use pneumatic valves to control and generate brake applications on the cars along the length of the train. In general, this conventional system consists of a brake pipe that runs the length of the train which supplies air to reservoirs mounted on each of the cars. When the brake pipe and car components are charged with air, the brakes release.
When the engineer needs to make a brake application, control valves in the locomotive reduce the brake pipe pressure. As the brake pipe pressure is reduced, the service portions on each car divert air from their reservoirs to their brake cylinders. To release the brakes, the engineer charges the brake pipe. This method of controlling the brakes on freight and passenger cars has remained virtually unchanged since its invention by George Westinghouse in 1868.

The conventional braking system suffers from many weaknesses; one of which is in the reaction time. Because the engineer controls the flow of air into and out of the brake pipe from the locomotive, it can take up to two minutes for a commanded brake application to propagate to the back of a long freight train. This uneven braking can cause significant forces to build up between the cars in a train.

In contrast, ECP braking uses electronic controls which make it possible to activate air-powered brakes on the cars. On an ECP-equipped train, the cars are equipped with a trainline cable that runs parallel to the brake pipe down the length of the train. This cable is used to supply power to the electronic components installed on the cars. The cable also doubles as a communication medium that allows the locomotive to send commands to, and receive feedback from, the cars along the length of the train.

ECP provides many benefits over the traditional braking system. For example, since all the cars receive the brake command at the same time, the brakes are applied uniformly and instantaneously. This provides much better train control, shortens the stopping distances, and leads to a lower risk of derailment or of coupling breakage.

Also with ECP, the brake pipe remains charged during operation. This allows the reservoirs on the cars to continuously charge making it less likely for the braking air supply to be exhausted. Further, since the cars can also send their status to the locomotive at the front, the engineer can monitor the state of the train and know at any given time the braking capabilities available.

The ECPB can also apply the brakes on the rearmost wagons slightly before the brakes on the front wagons are applied, which reduces the shock and noise of the wagons bunching up.

As a retired railroad man myself. my understanding of the many advantages of ECP braking and monitoring systems is the same as yours. It is far superior to what is still in use on most U.S. railroads. It should be installed and Trump’s ruling overturned asap.

There are 1700 derailings a year in the U.S., and many could be prevented by the new electrical monitoring and brake systems, now used most everywhere in modern European and Asian countries.

 

[Leo123]

Possibly prevented the piling on into cars ahead.

Tell Pothole Pete.

 

[Delldude]

You're FOS.

In a post on the American Journal of Transportation website quoted NTSB Chairwoman Jennifer Homendy’s recent tweet thread, “ECP would not have been in place for the train involved in this incident.

“Additionally, several U.S. railroads have engaged in extensive real-world tests of ECP brakes and found that the failure rate for of ECP systems is significant and the repair time is much too long to make them practical . . . Additionally, independent, evidence-based evaluation of ECP brake systems were unable to make conclusive findings on ECP emergency brake performance relative to other braking systems on the basis of the results provided by DOT’s modeling of train derailment scenarios.

Debate over ECP Brakes Reducing Impact of Derailment
__________________________________

ECP's help reduce rear cars from slamming into cars ahead of them in a rapid stop scenario such as a derailment ahead in the train, thus reducing the amount of cars in a derailment...not rocket science, bub.

Wikipedia......

No wonder you didn't cite your source....

 

[Delldude]

Tell Pothole Pete.

I think he likes piling into things ahead....

 

[Delldude]

As soon as air pressure is lost the brakes lock up. It wouldn’t have stopped anything faster.

Not so sure, feds claim electric is faster/harder.
Truck airbrakes have a fail safe that uses air pressure to override a diaphram canister with a spring ,connected to the brakes. Lose air, the diaphram deflates and they lock up, right now.
The difference is probably in the weight of the train, I guess.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

In a post on the American Journal of Transportation website quoted NTSB Chairwoman Jennifer Homendy’s recent tweet thread, “ECP would not have been in place for the train involved in this incident.

“Additionally, several U.S. railroads have engaged in extensive real-world tests of ECP brakes and found that the failure rate for of ECP systems is significant and the repair time is much too long to make them practical . . . Additionally, independent, evidence-based evaluation of ECP brake systems were unable to make conclusive findings on ECP emergency brake performance relative to other braking systems on the basis of the results provided by DOT’s modeling of train derailment scenarios.

Debate over ECP Brakes Reducing Impact of Derailment
__________________________________

ECP's help reduce rear cars from slamming into cars ahead of them in a rapid stop scenario such as a derailment ahead in the train, thus reducing the amount of cars in a derailment...not rocket science, bub.

Wikipedia......

No wonder you didn't cite your source.

Aww, poor teabagger, cant stand the facts?

“Additionally, several U.S. railroads have engaged in extensive real-world tests of ECP brakes and found that the failure rate for of ECP systems is significant and the repair time is much too long to make them practical . . . Additionally, independent, evidence-based evaluation of ECP brake systems were unable to make conclusive findings on ECP emergency brake performance relative to other braking systems on the basis of the results provided by DOT’s modeling of train derailment scenarios.

"This method of controlling the brakes on freight and passenger cars has remained virtually unchanged since its invention by George Westinghouse in 1868".

150 years and no improvement?

Early indications are overheated wheel bearings were the genesis of the Feb. 3rd derailment of the 51 cars (of the 150-car train) near this Ohio community.

Ian Jeffries, president of the American Association of Railroads, issued a statement on the event which included, “The NTSB’s independent investigators continue their work to identify the accident’s root cause and contributing factors. That investigation must continue unimpeded by politics and speculation so NTSB’s findings can guide what additional measures may have prevented this accident.

 

[Delldude]

Aww, poor teabagger, cant stand the facts?

“Additionally, several U.S. railroads have engaged in extensive real-world tests of ECP brakes and found that the failure rate for of ECP systems is significant and the repair time is much too long to make them practical . . . Additionally, independent, evidence-based evaluation of ECP brake systems were unable to make conclusive findings on ECP emergency brake performance relative to other braking systems on the basis of the results provided by DOT’s modeling of train derailment scenarios.

"This method of controlling the brakes on freight and passenger cars has remained virtually unchanged since its invention by George Westinghouse in 1868".

150 years and no improvement?

Early indications are overheated wheel bearings were the genesis of the Feb. 3rd derailment of the 51 cars (of the 150-car train) near this Ohio community.

Ian Jeffries, president of the American Association of Railroads, issued a statement on the event which included, “The NTSB’s independent investigators continue their work to identify the accident’s root cause and contributing factors. That investigation must continue unimpeded by politics and speculation so NTSB’s findings can guide what additional measures may have prevented this accident.

Thank you for proving my point with information from my link. Here's more to fill your widdle head:

Rail Companies Blocked Safety Rules Before Ohio Derailment​

Rail Companies Blocked Safety Rules Before Ohio Derailment

Norfolk Southern helped convince government officials to repeal brake rules — and corporate lobbyists watered down hazmat safety regs.

www.levernews.com

 

[blackhawk]

The NTSB preliminary report shows that the brakes had nothing to do with the crash it was an overheated axel. Let’s not forget the Biden Administration could have pursued bringing that proposal back if they had wanted to. Thread rated.

 

[Leo123]

Thank you for proving my point with information from my link. Here's more to fill your widdle head:

Rail Companies Blocked Safety Rules Before Ohio Derailment​

Rail Companies Blocked Safety Rules Before Ohio Derailment

Norfolk Southern helped convince government officials to repeal brake rules — and corporate lobbyists watered down hazmat safety regs.

www.levernews.com

That's what I read. The train did not 'qualify' for the new braking system because it didn't have the designated hazard rating. Perhaps they need to reevaluate their hazard ratings.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

The article Delldude linked to above is actually excellent.

If you bother to read it you will see it refutes those who apologize for Trump and the corrupt RR executives who pocketed money that should have gone to install safety measures — measures these executives themselves once vehemently supported, and that are already installed in all of modern Europe and Asia. This included installing both modern electronic monitoring and electronic braking systems.

The article also explains how better and faster emergency braking that ECP would bring might not have prevented this accident but certainly might have prevented as many cars from derailing and crumbling, as cars piled upon one another — a frequent problem in the more than 1,700 annual derailments in the U.S.A.

At almost every level safety has been sacrificed to quarterly profits. These trains are also ever longer, this one was 1.8 miles long! As a retired railroad man, this is all just maddening to me.

Rail Companies Blocked Safety Rules Before Ohio Derailment

Norfolk Southern helped convince government officials to repeal brake rules — and corporate lobbyists watered down hazmat safety regs.

www.levernews.com

 

[Leo123]

The article Delldude linked to above is actually excellent.

If you bother to read it you will see it refutes those who apologize for Trump and the corrupt RR executives who pocketed money that should have gone to install safety measures — measures these executives themselves once vehemently supported, and that are already installed in all of modern Europe and Asia. This included installing both modern electronic monitoring and electronic braking systems.

The article also explains how better and faster emergency braking that ECP would bring might not have prevented this accident but certainly might have prevented as many cars from derailing and crumbling, as cars piled upon one another — a frequent problem in the more than 1,700 annual derailments in the U.S.A.

At almost every level safety has been sacrificed to quarterly profits. These trains are also ever longer, this one was 1.8 miles long! As a retired railroad man, this is all just maddening to me.

Rail Companies Blocked Safety Rules Before Ohio Derailment

Norfolk Southern helped convince government officials to repeal brake rules — and corporate lobbyists watered down hazmat safety regs.

www.levernews.com

What money did Trump pocket?

 

[Lakhota]

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Thank you for proving my point with information from my link. Here's more to fill your widdle head:

Rail Companies Blocked Safety Rules Before Ohio Derailment​

Rail Companies Blocked Safety Rules Before Ohio Derailment

Norfolk Southern helped convince government officials to repeal brake rules — and corporate lobbyists watered down hazmat safety regs.

www.levernews.com

I don't know WTF your point is.

Was your point Norfolk-Southern killed Obama safety regulations?

The sequence of events began a decade ago in the wake of a major uptick in derailments of trains carrying crude oil and hazardous chemicals, including a New Jersey train crash that leaked the same toxic chemical as in Ohio.

In response, the Obama administration in 2014 proposed improving safety regulations for trains carrying petroleum and other hazardous materials. However, after industry pressure, the final measure ended up narrowly focused on the transport of crude oil and exempting trains carrying many other combustible materials, including the chemical involved in this weekend’s disaster.

Was your point Trump, the train industry republicans killed Obama'a safety regulation regarding brakes?

Then came 2017: After rail industry donors delivered more than $6 million to GOP campaigns, the Trump administration — backed by rail lobbyists and Senate Republicans — rescinded part of that rule aimed at making better braking systems widespread on the nation’s rails.

Specifically, regulators killed provisions requiring rail cars carrying hazardous flammable materials to be equipped with electronic braking systems to stop trains more quickly than conventional air brakes.

Was your point the ECP brakes weren't required on the Norfolk-Southern train?
They were, until Trump, the train industry republicans killed Obama'a safety regulation regarding brakes.

Just because black boxes and dash cameras aren't required on cars, millions of people drive with them, for lower insurance rates.

Republicans are dismissing what was required, instead of safety improvements, that have been available and used for 26 years, even by Norfolk -Southern.

• 1968: Mitsubishi Electric delivered "MBS type electric command brake control unit" for 7000 and 8000 Class EMU of Osaka Municipal Subway.[8]
• 1971: TRTA 6000 series EMU for Chiyoda Subway line, ECP in combination with chopper circuit regenerative brake system.
• 1982: 200 Series EMU of Tohoku Shinkansen and Joetsu Shinkansen (the bullet trains), the first example of the ECP on high-speed trains in Japan.
• 1990s: First trials on BN. TSM of Kansas City operated more than eight coal and intermodal trains using their "EABS" ECP for BN, CP, and Amtrak. TSM was purchased by Wabco in 1998.
• October 11, 2007: The first ECP-equipped Norfolk Southern train in the United States began operating.[9][10]

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

What money did Trump pocket?

No one will ever know how much the grifter pocketed.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

That's what I read. The train did not 'qualify' for the new braking system because it didn't have the designated hazard rating. Perhaps they need to reevaluate their hazard ratings.

Shouldn't matter if they "qualified" or not.
Norfolk- Southern's insurance just went through the roof.

 

[Papageorgio]

NTSB: "THIS WAS 100% PREVENTABLE!"

So the Biden Administration rolled back a massive amount of Trumps EOs and regulations, why did he not rollback Trumps deregulation on the rails? Why didn’t the Head of the DOT recommend rolli vback the deregulation, they had over two years to do this, yet did nothing, why?

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

“Why did [Biden] not rollback Trumps deregulation on the rails? Why didn’t the Head of the DOT recommend rolling back the deregulation, they had over two years to do this, yet did nothing, why?”

Because, Papageorgeo, this is a bipartisan problem. It is always easier to go along with the money men and lobbyists and listen to “captured regulators” who say, “Well, it really isn’t needed and besides it costs so much!” The Biden Admin and especially Pete Buttigieg certainly deserve criticism for not doing what you suggest …

… but if they had, would you have criticized a Presidential executive order or new DOT order doing this as “federal meddling,” as just another expensive bureaucratic anti-capitalist “socialist” diktat?

 

[j-mac]

Trump's deregulatory actions are coming back to haunt him, as explained in this great Político analysis today:

Trump’s administration withdrew an Obama-era proposal to require faster brakes on trains carrying highly flammable materials, ended regular rail safety audits of railroads, and mothballed a pending rule requiring freight trains to have at least two crew members. He also placed a veteran of the chemical industry in charge of the Environmental Protection Agency’s chemical safety office, where she made industry-friendly changes to how the agency studied health risks.

Trump’s visit to Ohio derailment gives Biden’s team some breathing room

His planned appearance near the scene of this month’s toxic derailment has Democrats pointing to his past efforts to roll back train and chemical regulations.

www.politico.com

"Even if this safety rule was in effect, it would not have applied to the Norfolk Southern train that derailed in East Palestine, Ohio, because it was not categorized as a high-hazard cargo train."

Fact-checking Trump’s comments about Ohio train derailment

At a McDonald’s in East Palestine, Ohio, former President Donald Trump picked up the lunch tab for first responders and

www.politifact.com

 

[Delldude]

I don't know WTF your point is.

Was your point Norfolk-Southern killed Obama safety regulations?

The sequence of events began a decade ago in the wake of a major uptick in derailments of trains carrying crude oil and hazardous chemicals, including a New Jersey train crash that leaked the same toxic chemical as in Ohio.

In response, the Obama administration in 2014 proposed improving safety regulations for trains carrying petroleum and other hazardous materials. However, after industry pressure, the final measure ended up narrowly focused on the transport of crude oil and exempting trains carrying many other combustible materials, including the chemical involved in this weekend’s disaster.

Was your point Trump, the train industry republicans killed Obama'a safety regulation regarding brakes?

Then came 2017: After rail industry donors delivered more than $6 million to GOP campaigns, the Trump administration — backed by rail lobbyists and Senate Republicans — rescinded part of that rule aimed at making better braking systems widespread on the nation’s rails.

Specifically, regulators killed provisions requiring rail cars carrying hazardous flammable materials to be equipped with electronic braking systems to stop trains more quickly than conventional air brakes.

Was your point the ECP brakes weren't required on the Norfolk-Southern train?
They were, until Trump, the train industry republicans killed Obama'a safety regulation regarding brakes.

Just because black boxes and dash cameras aren't required on cars, millions of people drive with them, for lower insurance rates.

Republicans are dismissing what was required, instead of safety improvements, that have been available and used for 26 years, even by Norfolk -Southern.

• 1968: Mitsubishi Electric delivered "MBS type electric command brake control unit" for 7000 and 8000 Class EMU of Osaka Municipal Subway.[8]
• 1971: TRTA 6000 series EMU for Chiyoda Subway line, ECP in combination with chopper circuit regenerative brake system.
• 1982: 200 Series EMU of Tohoku Shinkansen and Joetsu Shinkansen (the bullet trains), the first example of the ECP on high-speed trains in Japan.
• 1990s: First trials on BN. TSM of Kansas City operated more than eight coal and intermodal trains using their "EABS" ECP for BN, CP, and Amtrak. TSM was purchased by Wabco in 1998.
• October 11, 2007: The first ECP-equipped Norfolk Southern train in the United States began operating.[9][10]

So you proved you are full of shit. It wasn't Trump or Obama or the democrats or the republicans, it was the RR industry lobbying to kill safety regulations.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

So you proved you are full of shit. It wasn't Trump or Obama or the democrats or the republicans, it was the RR industry lobbying to kill safety regulations.

No, it couldn't have been republicans.

Then came 2017: After rail industry donors delivered more than $6 million to GOP campaigns, the Trump administration — backed by rail lobbyists and Senate Republicans — rescinded part of that rule aimed at making better braking systems widespread on the nation’s rails.

ALL the $$$, going to republicans had no effect?

Only a retard would think it didn't.
"Nothing to see here".