TULIP (God calls some to atheism)

[presonorek]

What would it take to assure you that God is real and God cares about you?

The same way you would prove you are real. I would want Him to stand right in front me me and say, “hi”. That would convince me.

Why should convincing you be important exactly?

It is a good question. It probably wouldn’t change my life much but it would clear up some misunderstandings.

The Bible puts so much emphasis on faith that I doubt God has ever proven Himself to anyone. Otherwise, why does God value faith so much?

Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

Why did God prove Himself to you ?

 

[ding]

What would it take to assure you that God is real and God cares about you?

The same way you would prove you are real. I would want Him to stand right in front me me and say, “hi”. That would convince me.

Why should convincing you be important exactly?

It is a good question. It probably wouldn’t change my life much but it would clear up some misunderstandings.

The Bible puts so much emphasis on faith that I doubt God has ever proven Himself to anyone. Otherwise, why does God value faith so much?

Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

Why did God prove Himself to you ?

He didn't. I proved it to myself.

 

[ding]

What would it take to assure you that God is real and God cares about you?

The same way you would prove you are real. I would want Him to stand right in front me me and say, “hi”. That would convince me.

Why should convincing you be important exactly?

It is a good question. It probably wouldn’t change my life much but it would clear up some misunderstandings.

The Bible puts so much emphasis on faith that I doubt God has ever proven Himself to anyone. Otherwise, why does God value faith so much?

Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

Why did God prove Himself to you ?

So my question still stands... Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

 

[presonorek]

What would it take to assure you that God is real and God cares about you?

The same way you would prove you are real. I would want Him to stand right in front me me and say, “hi”. That would convince me.

Why should convincing you be important exactly?

It is a good question. It probably wouldn’t change my life much but it would clear up some misunderstandings.

The Bible puts so much emphasis on faith that I doubt God has ever proven Himself to anyone. Otherwise, why does God value faith so much?

Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

Why did God prove Himself to you ?

So my question still stands... Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

To gain followers. People that think He doesn’t exist aren’t going to follow Him.

 

[Meriweather]

The Bible puts so much emphasis on faith that I doubt God has ever proven Himself to anyone.

Faith isn't so much as trusting in God's existence as it is having faith in His ways. God's way is love, and I have this feeling that love (at least for most) is the way you try to live.

 

[ding]

What would it take to assure you that God is real and God cares about you?

The same way you would prove you are real. I would want Him to stand right in front me me and say, “hi”. That would convince me.

Why should convincing you be important exactly?

It is a good question. It probably wouldn’t change my life much but it would clear up some misunderstandings.

The Bible puts so much emphasis on faith that I doubt God has ever proven Himself to anyone. Otherwise, why does God value faith so much?

Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

Why did God prove Himself to you ?

So my question still stands... Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

To gain followers. People that think He doesn’t exist aren’t going to follow Him.

Why would the Creator of existence need followers? This isn't the mini-series American Gods, you know?

So given that God doesn't broadcast his existence in the way that some want Him to, it would seem that God does not need followers, especially the ones who can't discern Him on their own and require He do tricks for them. like a trained show pony.

So my question still stands... Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

 

[Hang on Sloopy]

Well I was clinically dead for about 15 minutes when I was around 9.

A horrible case of Osteomyelitis gone horribly wrong.

Some of you here on this thread would be thoroughly surprised.

But you'll have to wait to see. I promised never to tell.

 

[Meriweather]

To gain followers. People that think He doesn’t exist aren’t going to follow Him.

Consider another thought. People don't post "Beware of Dog" or "Beware of Quicksand" signs because they want followers, but because they are concerned that no one place themselves in unnecessary danger. This is the same with God's commandments.

 

[presonorek]

What would it take to assure you that God is real and God cares about you?

The same way you would prove you are real. I would want Him to stand right in front me me and say, “hi”. That would convince me.

Why should convincing you be important exactly?

It is a good question. It probably wouldn’t change my life much but it would clear up some misunderstandings.

The Bible puts so much emphasis on faith that I doubt God has ever proven Himself to anyone. Otherwise, why does God value faith so much?

Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

Why did God prove Himself to you ?

So my question still stands... Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

I’m not sure why you do not find this system so vulnerable to abuse.

You should follow God on faith. He is invisible and if you are bad He will not talk to you. Just trust me. I know what God wants. Listen to me and you will be Holy in the eyes of God.

Is there any cult leader in the entire world that has never read the Bible? The Bible is hella powerful. If you have the desire to control people in any capacity the Bible is the best resource in existence.

“You can’t see God or hear God but I can. Obey me.” Do you honestly think that passes the smell test of being on the up and up?

The whole concept of God is very important for organizing societies. I get that but haven’t we grown out of that and found a more honest method ?

 

[presonorek]

What would it take to assure you that God is real and God cares about you?

The same way you would prove you are real. I would want Him to stand right in front me me and say, “hi”. That would convince me.

Why should convincing you be important exactly?

It is a good question. It probably wouldn’t change my life much but it would clear up some misunderstandings.

The Bible puts so much emphasis on faith that I doubt God has ever proven Himself to anyone. Otherwise, why does God value faith so much?

Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

Why did God prove Himself to you ?

So my question still stands... Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

To gain followers. People that think He doesn’t exist aren’t going to follow Him.

Why would the Creator of existence need followers? This isn't the mini-series American Gods, you know?

So given that God doesn't broadcast his existence in the way that some want Him to, it would seem that God does not need followers., especially the ones who can't discern Him on their own and require He do tricks for them.

So my question still stands... Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

If God doesn’t want followers then everything is fine the way it is. He can keep playing hide and go seek I guess. I just got exhausted and want to play a different game now. God wins. He has the best hiding places.

 

[ding]

What would it take to assure you that God is real and God cares about you?

The same way you would prove you are real. I would want Him to stand right in front me me and say, “hi”. That would convince me.

Why should convincing you be important exactly?

It is a good question. It probably wouldn’t change my life much but it would clear up some misunderstandings.

The Bible puts so much emphasis on faith that I doubt God has ever proven Himself to anyone. Otherwise, why does God value faith so much?

Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

Why did God prove Himself to you ?

So my question still stands... Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

To gain followers. People that think He doesn’t exist aren’t going to follow Him.

Why would the Creator of existence need followers? This isn't the mini-series American Gods, you know?

So given that God doesn't broadcast his existence in the way that some want Him to, it would seem that God does not need followers., especially the ones who can't discern Him on their own and require He do tricks for them.

So my question still stands... Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

If God doesn’t want followers then everything is fine the way it is. He can keep playing hide and go seek I guess. I just got exhausted and want to play a different game now. God wins. He has the best hiding places.

I'm going to make this easy for you because I don't think you are ever going to get the right answer. He does not need you to believe in Him. He does not need to prove Himself to you. He does not lack for anything. If anything, you should be the one proving yourself to Him. He is the creator of existence after all.

Unless of course you think it's just a coincidence that the universe popped into existence being hardwired to produce intelligence. Is that what you think? Cause that would be magic.

 

[presonorek]

What would it take to assure you that God is real and God cares about you?

The same way you would prove you are real. I would want Him to stand right in front me me and say, “hi”. That would convince me.

Why should convincing you be important exactly?

It is a good question. It probably wouldn’t change my life much but it would clear up some misunderstandings.

The Bible puts so much emphasis on faith that I doubt God has ever proven Himself to anyone. Otherwise, why does God value faith so much?

Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

Why did God prove Himself to you ?

So my question still stands... Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

To gain followers. People that think He doesn’t exist aren’t going to follow Him.

Why would the Creator of existence need followers? This isn't the mini-series American Gods, you know?

So given that God doesn't broadcast his existence in the way that some want Him to, it would seem that God does not need followers., especially the ones who can't discern Him on their own and require He do tricks for them.

So my question still stands... Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

If God doesn’t want followers then everything is fine the way it is. He can keep playing hide and go seek I guess. I just got exhausted and want to play a different game now. God wins. He has the best hiding places.

I'm going to make this easy for you because I don't think you are ever going to get the right answer. He does not need you to believe in Him. He does not need to prove Himself to you. He does not lack for anything. If anything, you should be the one proving yourself to Him. He is the creator of existence after all.

Unless of course you think it's just a coincidence that the universe popped into existence being hardwired to produce intelligence. Is that what you think? Cause that would be magic.

There are many things I do not know.

 

[Meriweather]

I’m not sure why you do not find this system so vulnerable to abuse.

You should follow God on faith. He is invisible and if you are bad He will not talk to you. Just trust me. I know what God wants. Listen to me and you will be Holy in the eyes of God.

Is there any cult leader in the entire world that has never read the Bible? The Bible is hella powerful. If you have the desire to control people in any capacity the Bible is the best resource in existence.

“You can’t see God or hear God but I can. Obey me.” Do you honestly think that passes the smell test of being on the up and up?

The whole concept of God is very important for organizing societies. I get that but haven’t we grown out of that and found a more honest method ?

Advice: Don't follow anyone who says, "Trust me, I know what God wants." You know what God wants--love Him, love others. Also, bear in mind that while some use religion to organize, the vast majority simply wish to gather with fellow people of faith to worship and to work together. We understand so many go through things that can't be put into words. Do not obey an "organizer", obey God. There are many priests, rabbis, ministers who are not organizers, but are devoted to serving, not organizing.

 

[ding]

What would it take to assure you that God is real and God cares about you?

The same way you would prove you are real. I would want Him to stand right in front me me and say, “hi”. That would convince me.

Why should convincing you be important exactly?

It is a good question. It probably wouldn’t change my life much but it would clear up some misunderstandings.

The Bible puts so much emphasis on faith that I doubt God has ever proven Himself to anyone. Otherwise, why does God value faith so much?

Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

Why did God prove Himself to you ?

So my question still stands... Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

I’m not sure why you do not find this system so vulnerable to abuse.

You should follow God on faith. He is invisible and if you are bad He will not talk to you. Just trust me. I know what God wants. Listen to me and you will be Holy in the eyes of God.

Is there any cult leader in the entire world that has never read the Bible? The Bible is hella powerful. If you have the desire to control people in any capacity the Bible is the best resource in existence.

“You can’t see God or hear God but I can. Obey me.” Do you honestly think that passes the smell test of being on the up and up?

The whole concept of God is very important for organizing societies. I get that but haven’t we grown out of that and found a more honest method ?

Abuse by whom? Me? Not likely. I'd much prefer being ignorant of reality and to worship myself. The problem is that isn't very satisfying. I've lived that life.

The definition of faith is having complete trust in something or someone. I never put complete trust in something or someone without good reason. You clearly do not know what God wants if you have boiled it down to something so simple as if you are bad He will not talk to you. He actually does more talking to me when I am bad. The closest I have come to knowing what God wants is certain outcomes under certain conditions. What are those outcomes? What are those conditions? I haven't a clue. But usually it involves being selfless.

As for your belief that man created God to control other men, Darwin would disagree. From the atheist's vantage point these beliefs exist because of evolutionary forces. But the reality is that even that argument confirms that spirituality offers a functional advantage over materialism. According to natural selection there are two main components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation. So even natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago. As mankind has gained more and more knowledge of his natural surroundings his desire for spirituality has not diminished. In fact, the more materialistic we became the less satisfied we became.

 

[ding]

What would it take to assure you that God is real and God cares about you?

The same way you would prove you are real. I would want Him to stand right in front me me and say, “hi”. That would convince me.

Why should convincing you be important exactly?

It is a good question. It probably wouldn’t change my life much but it would clear up some misunderstandings.

The Bible puts so much emphasis on faith that I doubt God has ever proven Himself to anyone. Otherwise, why does God value faith so much?

Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

Why did God prove Himself to you ?

So my question still stands... Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

To gain followers. People that think He doesn’t exist aren’t going to follow Him.

Why would the Creator of existence need followers? This isn't the mini-series American Gods, you know?

So given that God doesn't broadcast his existence in the way that some want Him to, it would seem that God does not need followers., especially the ones who can't discern Him on their own and require He do tricks for them.

So my question still stands... Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

If God doesn’t want followers then everything is fine the way it is. He can keep playing hide and go seek I guess. I just got exhausted and want to play a different game now. God wins. He has the best hiding places.

I'm going to make this easy for you because I don't think you are ever going to get the right answer. He does not need you to believe in Him. He does not need to prove Himself to you. He does not lack for anything. If anything, you should be the one proving yourself to Him. He is the creator of existence after all.

Unless of course you think it's just a coincidence that the universe popped into existence being hardwired to produce intelligence. Is that what you think? Cause that would be magic.

There are many things I do not know.

It doesn't sound like it to me.

 

[ding]

What would it take to assure you that God is real and God cares about you?

The same way you would prove you are real. I would want Him to stand right in front me me and say, “hi”. That would convince me.

Why should convincing you be important exactly?

It is a good question. It probably wouldn’t change my life much but it would clear up some misunderstandings.

The Bible puts so much emphasis on faith that I doubt God has ever proven Himself to anyone. Otherwise, why does God value faith so much?

Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

Why did God prove Himself to you ?

So my question still stands... Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

To gain followers. People that think He doesn’t exist aren’t going to follow Him.

Why would the Creator of existence need followers? This isn't the mini-series American Gods, you know?

So given that God doesn't broadcast his existence in the way that some want Him to, it would seem that God does not need followers., especially the ones who can't discern Him on their own and require He do tricks for them.

So my question still stands... Why would God need to prove Himself to anyone? What would the purpose be exactly?

If God doesn’t want followers then everything is fine the way it is. He can keep playing hide and go seek I guess. I just got exhausted and want to play a different game now. God wins. He has the best hiding places.

You certainly are playing a game. That much is for certain.

 

[Hollie]

I feel like I am hopelessly wicked without God. I also feel that God has not chosen me for anything. I feel that God chose people that He liked a lot more than me and takes no interest in me being a part of His will. If God would have called me then I would be His best friend now but it is obvious that He didn’t. Just as the saints are preserved, my fate is sealed as well. I will be tortured for an eternity due to my helplessly fallen state. This is my TULIP theory but I have an alternate theory that the God of the Bible does not exist. Which do you guys think it is? God hates my ever loving guts? or God doesn’t exist?

I suppose that for folks like you who self describe as "hopelessly wicked", religion works like psychoactive drugs for the mentally disturbed.

 

[Grumblenuts]

The same way you would prove you are real. I would want Him to stand right in front me me and say, “hi”. That would convince me.

God is not a physical being, so that is not going to happen.

Excuses, excuses..

 

[Grumblenuts]

I’m not sure why you do not find this system so vulnerable to abuse.

You should follow God on faith. He is invisible and if you are bad He will not talk to you. Just trust me. I know what God wants. Listen to me and you will be Holy in the eyes of God.

Is there any cult leader in the entire world that has never read the Bible? The Bible is hella powerful. If you have the desire to control people in any capacity the Bible is the best resource in existence.

“You can’t see God or hear God but I can. Obey me.” Do you honestly think that passes the smell test of being on the up and up?

The whole concept of God is very important for organizing societies. I get that but haven’t we grown out of that and found a more honest method ?

Advice: Don't follow anyone who says, "Trust me, I know what God wants." You know what God wants--love Him, love others. Also, bear in mind that while some use religion to organize, the vast majority simply wish to gather with fellow people of faith to worship and to work together. We understand so many go through things that can't be put into words. Do not obey an "organizer", obey God. There are many priests, rabbis, ministers who are not organizers, but are devoted to serving, not organizing.

^"Trust me."

 

[Meriweather]

Excuses, excuses..

Reality. If you want to bake a potato, you don't insist your TV set prove itself by producing one. The same way with a being that is pure love, pure spirit. Those who wish to find God, to know Him, need to start with reality, not with issuing their own commands. I doubt anyone would conduct an experiment that action causes an equal and opposite reaction and then reject it because a fish cannot live on dry land. Logic. If one has not found God, is it God or is it their own expectations that are out of line?