TWA flight 800

[Trajan]

Stinger.

no I don't see how. the stinger of that era had a range of perhaps 8-10 miles, a ceiling of maybe, 12-13 feet lets call it 14... traveled at approx. 700 mph and how do you sight it? Just point it in the air and fire? If the blast was at midway point of the main cabin which it seems it did, NOT from behind, then how did it detonate? ....They are designed as close-in weapons, those are not even operating envelopes for the weapon.

Heat seeking....Altitude range 16,000 - 17,00 feet.....Fire it at the right time and a 747 on climb out from JFK could be picked off easy-cheesy.

The Stinger is launched by a small ejection motor that pushes it a safe distance from the operator before engaging the main two-stage solid-fuel sustainer, which accelerates it to a maximum speed of Mach 2.2 (750 m/s)

FIM-92 Stinger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I see 14, 800. dude, its a no go, as I said , its all wrong taken in totality, how did it detonate? where did it detonate?

 

[SteadyMercury]

Heat seeking....Altitude range 16,000 - 17,00 feet.....Fire it at the right time and a 747 on climb out from JFK could be picked off easy-cheesy.

FIM-92 Stinger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe I missed it but where on the page you referenced does it say "Altitude range 16,000 - 17,00 feet" like you mention? Where does it say anything about altitude for that matter?

There have already been posts showing the max altitude at 9,500 or 10,000 feet. Clearly that can't hit a plane at 13,800 feet.

 

[Trajan]

No question about it.
Reagan funded Charlie Wilson's war.

My point, obviously too complex for the nutball element, is that it isn't any more absurd to blame bin Laden than to blame Hussein.
Next time I'll just drool and go, "Yeahman. Thassitokay."

Carter began sptting the mujhadeen before Reagan was even in office ........ next time just wipe your chin first.

What does Carter have to do with Reagan giving tens of millions of dollars to bin Laden and other "Afghan patriots? Reagan never seemed to tire of bloviating about heroic Afghan freedom fighters.

As for your wit, divide your own estimate in two and there you "half-wit".

well, Carter started operation cyclone in 1979 'no-wit' or all of a sudden that has nothing to do with it or that Wilson was a gosh, 12 term Democrat .....becasue you don't have the intellectual honesty to say oh yea ok or just be smart and stfu.......blaming it on Reagan is stupid, oh wait, like blaming iraq or Afghanistan on Obama is now smart?

see how that works?

 

[Circe]

very interesting. I wonder where this will go now.

hopefully they will re-open the case, but since clinton was in charge then, I have no hope of that

but

I'd like to know;
who attacked us
why was it covered up

Muslims, of course; it was shortly after 9/11 while all that anthrax attacking and others were going on.

At the time I recognized that it had to be an attack.

There ARE no coincidences that remarkable. What, right after 9/11 a plane explodes over New York and that's an ACCIDENT??

Between New York and the Pentagon getting planebombed and the anthrax multiple attacks, we were a mess as a nation; the powers that be decided to conceal what happened to keep us from going wild.

Does anyone think that was a good decision? it is true there haven't been big attacks since the plane. So far. Well, the Boston one, but that wasn't as big a loss of life as the others.

 

[Circe]

Im sure we will all watch this upcoming video and ask more questions.

Yes.

I am death on conspiracy theories of the silly kind, but I recognized immediately that this had to be an attack. Right after 9/11, same time as all the anthrax --- yep.

The government put a lid on it.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

may have been shot down by a missile or missiles.

TWA Flight 800 crash not due to gas tank explosion, former investigators say

Jim Speer, an accident investigator at the time of the crash for the Airline Pilots Association, who sifted through the recovered wreckage in a hangar, said he discovered holes consistent with those that would be formed by a high-energy blast in the right wing. He requested it be tested for explosives. When the test came back positive, he said, he was "physically removed" from a room by two CIA agents.



Holy shit...

The documentary, "TWA Flight 800," airs on July 17 but I can't find out what channel from reading the various articles.

I was always suspicious of this crash, too. It just never added up. How many 747s before or since had this explanation for crashing:

""The National Transportation Safety Board ruled that the explosion was caused by an electrical short circuit, most likely originating in a fuel gauge line, which found its way into the center wing fuel tank, where it detonated fuel vapors and caused the B-747 to fall in pieces into the waters off Long Island. ""

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Im sure we will all watch this upcoming video and ask more questions.

Yes.

I am death on conspiracy theories of the silly kind, but I recognized immediately that this had to be an attack. Right after 9/11, same time as all the anthrax --- yep.

The government put a lid on it.

You are thinking of the plane that went down on Rockaway. Supposedly that jet got caught in the air turbulence of a JAL in front of it. That was bullshit. Those planes are in a constant stream of take-offs in the same path out of JFK and this one just happened to get jostled out of the air? Yeah, right.

Nov 12, 2001:
Plane crashes in Rockaway, New York

Plane crashes in Rockaway, New York ? History.com This Day in History ? 11/12/2001

 

[skookerasbil]

Very interesting!

The US government may have covered up the murder of 230 people.

That's horrific

Dude........there is a whole lot our government knows about that most of the sheep have no clue about.......

Washington's Blog

Cutting Through the Matrix with Alan Watt - Clearing the rubbish from the road to reality

cryptogon.com




Time to break out of the engineered matrix!!! I used to spend every evening for a long time watching the cable networks and particularly FOX. Its a total waste of time. Ask yourself? What ever changes? Its the same BS every night. Same with the other news outlets only they are completely off the rails. Total bogus BS.......you can spend hours on CUTTINGTHROUGHTHEMATRIX alone.

 

[Circe]

Im sure we will all watch this upcoming video and ask more questions.

Yes.

I am death on conspiracy theories of the silly kind, but I recognized immediately that this had to be an attack. Right after 9/11, same time as all the anthrax --- yep.

The government put a lid on it.

You are thinking of the plane that went down on Rockaway. Supposedly that jet got caught in the air turbulence of a JAL in front of it. That was bullshit. Those planes are in a constant stream of take-offs in the same path out of JFK and this one just happened to get jostled out of the air? Yeah, right.

Nov 12, 2001:
Plane crashes in Rockaway, New York

Plane crashes in Rockaway, New York ? History.com This Day in History ? 11/12/2001

You are right! I was thinking of the Nov. 2001 crash; this is the 1996 airplane explosion. Sorry, all, and thanx for correcting me, Hyrcanus.

 

[Hyrcanus]

Im sure we will all watch this upcoming video and ask more questions.

Yes.

I am death on conspiracy theories of the silly kind, but I recognized immediately that this had to be an attack. Right after 9/11, same time as all the anthrax --- yep.

The government put a lid on it.

The crash of Flight 587 was a terrible accident caused by turbulance from the plane infront of it.

 

[JoeBlam]

Multiple witnesses saw what appeared to them to be a contrail headed toward the airliner. I recall the buzz being that it was an inadvertent missle launch from a nearby military installation.....that was quickly scotched by the claim a fuel pump or a relay of some kind inside the wing tank shorted-out.....and then some other theory. Amazing how they found all those pieces to reconstruct the airliner.

 

[Hyrcanus]

Multiple witnesses saw what appeared to them to be a contrail headed toward the airliner. I recall the buzz being that it was an inadvertent missle launch from a nearby military installation.....that was quickly scotched by the claim a fuel pump or a relay of some kind inside the wing tank shorted-out.....and then some other theory. Amazing how they found all those pieces to reconstruct the airliner.

why would they notice something BEFORE the explosion?

what they most likely saw was a trail AFTER the explosion took place.

or they saw a trail from the first explosion and a second explosion took place, and they thought the trail from the first boom was a missile.

 

[JoeBlam]

Multiple witnesses saw what appeared to them to be a contrail headed toward the airliner. I recall the buzz being that it was an inadvertent missle launch from a nearby military installation.....that was quickly scotched by the claim a fuel pump or a relay of some kind inside the wing tank shorted-out.....and then some other theory. Amazing how they found all those pieces to reconstruct the airliner.

why would they notice something BEFORE the explosion?

what they most likely saw was a trail AFTER the explosion took place.

or they saw a trail from the first explosion and a second explosion took place, and they thought the trail from the first boom was a missile.

Do you know what a contrail is?

 

[Hyrcanus]

Multiple witnesses saw what appeared to them to be a contrail headed toward the airliner. I recall the buzz being that it was an inadvertent missle launch from a nearby military installation.....that was quickly scotched by the claim a fuel pump or a relay of some kind inside the wing tank shorted-out.....and then some other theory. Amazing how they found all those pieces to reconstruct the airliner.

why would they notice something BEFORE the explosion?

what they most likely saw was a trail AFTER the explosion took place.

or they saw a trail from the first explosion and a second explosion took place, and they thought the trail from the first boom was a missile.

Do you know what a contrail is?

We've yet to see any photographs of what the witnesses saw.

Nor do we have any witness testimony that they saw something go up into the sky and then the plane went boom.

For all we know they saw a flash or heard a boom, looked up, and saw a trail coming from the plane and confused it with a trail that went towards the plane.

 

[JoeBlam]

why would they notice something BEFORE the explosion?

what they most likely saw was a trail AFTER the explosion took place.

or they saw a trail from the first explosion and a second explosion took place, and they thought the trail from the first boom was a missile.

Do you know what a contrail is?

We've yet to see any photographs of what the witnesses saw.

Nor do we have any witness testimony that they saw something go up into the sky and then the plane went boom.

For all we know they saw a flash or heard a boom, looked up, and saw a trail coming from the plane and confused it with a trail that went towards the plane.

You're talkin out of your ass, sport. Several witnesses told authorities they saw an object leaving a contrail on a path toward the airliner just before it exploded. In the first hours it was widely assumed the airliner was splashed by a missle.

 

[flacaltenn]

Heat seeking....Altitude range 16,000 - 17,00 feet.....Fire it at the right time and a 747 on climb out from JFK could be picked off easy-cheesy.

FIM-92 Stinger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe I missed it but where on the page you referenced does it say "Altitude range 16,000 - 17,00 feet" like you mention? Where does it say anything about altitude for that matter?

There have already been posts showing the max altitude at 9,500 or 10,000 feet. Clearly that can't hit a plane at 13,800 feet.

Those numbers are right there for one of design variants.. In the table. You maybe just are not motivated to see it? And since when is ANY weapons system like that revealed in public information?

Granted that's a tough sell. But so is trying to contain 154 witnesses that mentioned missile trail. CLEARLY the CIA (i previously said NSA) presentation was rushed out to convince them that it was debris going AWAY from the blast area..

We've got a Flight Data Recorder intially analyzed with 4 more seconds of data than what is public now. And multiple FOIA requests denied.

But moreover --- we've got MULTIPLE key investigators that want to go public.. I welcome that --- because the treatment of this "accident" smells awful.

As for credibility on the MANPADS missile issue...

2003 Baghdad DHL attempted shootdown incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On 22 November 2003, shortly after takeoff from Baghdad, Iraq, an Airbus A300 cargo plane owned by European Air Transport ("DHL") was struck on the left wing tip by a surface-to-air missile. Severe wing damage resulted in a fire and complete loss of hydraulic flight control systems. Because outboard left wing fuel tank 1A was full at takeoff, there was no fuel-air vapour explosion. Liquid jet fuel dropped away as 1A disintegrated. Inboard fuel tank 1 was pierced and leaking.[1]

To reduce exposure to ground attack, the aircraft was executing a rapid climbout. At about 8,000 feet (2,450 metres), a 9K34 Strela-3 (SA-14 Gremlin) surface-to-air missile struck the left wing tip.[7] The warhead damaged trailing edge surfaces and structure and caused a fire. All three hydraulic systems lost pressure and flight controls were disabled. The aircraft pitched rapidly up and down in a roller-coaster phugoid, oscillating between a nose-up and a nose-down position, trying to re-establish the angle of attack from which it was disturbed.

MANPADS Airplane Defense Tech - Congress Drops Anti-Terrorist Plan Tech - Popular Mechanics



Congress and the White House quietly stopped funding civilian MANPADS defenses. "It has dropped off the radar, and that worries me," says Steve Israel (D-N.Y.), one of a small bipartisan group in Congress trying to fund the countermeasures. The Department of Homeland Security estimates that at least 24 terrorist organizations possess MANPADS, most of which have infrared sensors that find the hot engines of airplanes flying up to three miles high. DHS concluded that the best onboard defense use pulses of infrared energy to confuse the missiles' guidance system. In 2002, DHS contracted BAE Systems and Northrop Grumman to develop and test these systems. Both BAE's Jeteye and Northrop Grumman's Guardian systems can defeat multiple missiles, but, according to DHS, both technologies had problems with their reliability and would require more money to fix the shortfalls.

 

[flacaltenn]

Multiple witnesses saw what appeared to them to be a contrail headed toward the airliner. I recall the buzz being that it was an inadvertent missle launch from a nearby military installation.....that was quickly scotched by the claim a fuel pump or a relay of some kind inside the wing tank shorted-out.....and then some other theory. Amazing how they found all those pieces to reconstruct the airliner.

why would they notice something BEFORE the explosion?

what they most likely saw was a trail AFTER the explosion took place.

or they saw a trail from the first explosion and a second explosion took place, and they thought the trail from the first boom was a missile.

That's where the CIA came in with their rushed cartoon to convince the witnesses of what they saw.. The CIA tried to tell them that what they saw RISING in the sky was the crippled airliner that had ALREADY exploded. CIA had it going up several thousand feet AFTER the "fuel tank" issue blew a large chunk out of the fuselage, DEPRESSURIZED the cabin and crippled the flight control systems. After rising for 5 or 6 seconds, a secondary LARGER ???? explosion sealed the deal.. OK -- A larger explosion than the main FUEL TANK?

What type of idiot REALLY BELIEVES that the CIA is required to rush out a cartoon for a mechanical issue on a commercial airliner??

Anyone??? Do we need a poll here?

 

[flacaltenn]

why would they notice something BEFORE the explosion?

what they most likely saw was a trail AFTER the explosion took place.

or they saw a trail from the first explosion and a second explosion took place, and they thought the trail from the first boom was a missile.

Do you know what a contrail is?

We've yet to see any photographs of what the witnesses saw.

Nor do we have any witness testimony that they saw something go up into the sky and then the plane went boom.

For all we know they saw a flash or heard a boom, looked up, and saw a trail coming from the plane and confused it with a trail that went towards the plane.

154 witnesses mentioned missile. INCLUDING the cockpit crew of an ANGuard C-130.. One of the CLOSEST planes to Flight 800.. NYTimes -- one or two days after the "accident".

 

[Politico]

Show us the proof and get on with it then.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I have the same skepticism here I have for 911 conspiracies.....


look, the aircraft was at 13.760 feet and traveling at approx. 450 to 500 mph, so you would need a missile that can catch it, from a dead stand still.

Then you need the guidance equipment, that doesn't just come in a suitcase, you need the fire contl. apparatus, the radar mechanism so you can start with a 'lock', you just don't fire a missile into the air and expect it to pick up a heat signature from 10 miles away in the dark, (which it was when it was hit) from the Long Island shoreline.....a stinger for instance or any man-pack does not utilize that type of fire control and its combo of playing catch up, sighting, range and speed would make it the greatest shot since william tell.

It had to be something bigger with a large footprint or a lot closer, if its shipboard, then you're talking about how they handle the backblast, sighting in the dark of night and with the same speed and height/speed tail chase factors...


So, in the end, it has to be military, and? I just don't see a US naval ship mistakingly firing a missile that took it down and that remaining a secret for all these years, the cover up would be IMMENSE.....

I don't buy it.

ok Buzzkillian

Then why are these guys, 17 years later they had all this evidence?

If it was the US Navy? yeah, it would have leaked and leaked quickly.

so that leaves other ships that may have been in the region.

possibly just a tragic accident

Look if you're n the fire control center of an Aegis cruiser or even a DD and you just shot down an airliner, dude everyone o that ship would know it...the firing of the missile, then a detonation, the fire on the water...., you think that could be kept secret?

how? they send everyone from the ship to the same Cheyene-cheney/fuhrer bunker where they have the passengers from the Pentagon flight


I cannot see that, at all...

ok, then what was the flare that was seen hitting the plane?

hundreds of eye witnesses, describing the same thing