U.S. government sues to block vouchers in some Louisiana school systems

[Spare_change]

Translation: Eric Holder wants poor black kids to stay in shitty schools so they grow up to be poor black adults who keep voting Democrat.

U.S. government sues to block vouchers in some Louisiana school systems | NOLA.com

PLEASE do not think that the Democratic leadership is the least bit interested in quality education.

 

[Spare_change]

This is exactly what can happen to public schools across the country if voters allow government to use vouchers to suck off the best students and funding from public schools.

"Allow"? "Suck off the best students"?


Could you possibly miss the fucking point any more completely?

"Suck off the best students"????

Damn - with that kind of incentive program, even I might have made the honor roll !!!!

 

[Ernie S.]

This is exactly what can happen to public schools across the country if voters allow government to use vouchers to suck off the best students and funding from public schools.

"Allow"? "Suck off the best students"?


Could you possibly miss the fucking point any more completely?

Most likely he will surprise you again tomorrow. I know he has exceeded all my expectations on a daily basis for as long as he's been at USMB.

 

[JoeB131]

$5,000 and they get an empty seat with more to spend on remaining students.

The whole point of vouchers is to provide an alternative to the failing public schools.

I suppose the public school system COULD do something to make that unnecessary, but that would require educators to actually focus on education instead of salary and benefits.

the whole point of vouchers is to defund public education.

Here's some crazy idea. How about spending enough on the inner city schools so they can do their jobs?

 

[bripat9643]

I think you would agree that TX has high numbers of ESL and poor students yet according to numbers you posted earlier in the thread they have much better results than many of the highest spending states and TX spends well less than half per student than many of those states. And don't get me wrong TX could do better, but to get those improvements it would have to start in the home, not with more money.

Yes, Texas has done better than a number of states with higher per pupil spending and they have done exceeding well considering the amount they are spending per pupil, particularly in graduation rates. When you look at highest and lowest ranked states, it becomes clear that there's a correlation between higher funding and student performance.

Every state is different in regard to student demographics, state requirements, and the cost of living which have a major influence on the cost of education. A state like Alaska with a high cost living, the highest percent of American Indians, teacher turnover as high 52% in rural areas, and extremely high maintenance and student transportation costs has the highest per pupil cost in the nation. Colorado's low costs are attribute to number of programs which shift fees to parents that most states pay such as, sports, advanced placement classes, transportation, and a host of other costs. Colorado has also been successful in cutting many costly special ed. services to private schools.

View attachment 40649

Analysis How Much States Spend on Their Kids Really Does Matter - NationalJournal.com

I don't see much of a correlation with spending. However, I do note that the highest performing states are all Lilly white, whereas the lowest performing states all have large minority populations.

.Of the top 10 states ranked highest, four were among the nation’s highest per-pupil spenders. Of the 10 states that spent the least, only one ranked in top 50%.

"rated highest" by whom? Statistical analysis done on the graph of performance vs money spent shows no correlation. The correlation with race of the students is far stronger. You deliberately ignored that point.

And how is race relevant to the discussion?

Blacks and Hispanics perform below whites on standardized tests, so it's obviously relevant. You want to blame money for the difference when the race of the students is obviously more likely to be responsible.

 

[bripat9643]

$5,000 and they get an empty seat with more to spend on remaining students.

The whole point of vouchers is to provide an alternative to the failing public schools.

I suppose the public school system COULD do something to make that unnecessary, but that would require educators to actually focus on education instead of salary and benefits.

the whole point of vouchers is to defund public education.

Here's some crazy idea. How about spending enough on the inner city schools so they can do their jobs?

That's sort of true. The point of vouchers is to allow parents and students to opt out of the corrupt and ineffective government school system. If that leads to shutting it down, so much the better.

 

[Ernie S.]

$5,000 and they get an empty seat with more to spend on remaining students.

The whole point of vouchers is to provide an alternative to the failing public schools.

I suppose the public school system COULD do something to make that unnecessary, but that would require educators to actually focus on education instead of salary and benefits.

the whole point of vouchers is to defund public education.

Here's some crazy idea. How about spending enough on the inner city schools so they can do their jobs?

You're spending 3 times as much in Detroit as Mesa now and getting 1/3 the return. It's not about money.
More than anything, it's about parents. The fact that Liberals can't see that explains why we have barack obama in the White House.

 

[paulitician]

Yup, gotta keep em down on the Plantation. Can't let em stray.

 

[Flopper]

Schools fail because of lack of funding. Fund the schools if you want better education.

Typical liberal response, check the funding behind some of the most miserable school systems in the country, many are receiving more per student than some of the best in the country. Utah is a great example of getting better results with some of the lowest per student spending. Quality parents and teachers are more important than money.

"check the funding behind some of the most miserable school systems in the country, many are receiving more per student than some of the best in the country."
I certainly agree with that statement. Poor performing schools which are usually schools filled with kids from low income families in high crime areas are loaded with special ed. kids with Emotional and Behavior Disorders, Intellectual Disabilities, Learning Disabilities, requiring special attention remedial education, early intervention programs, vocational cooperative work programs, increased security for staff and students, and in many cases lower class sizes. For these and other reasons per pupil cost in such schools can easily be 50% higher the best schools in a district. Cities and states with large numbers of such schools will have high costs.

Emotional and Behavior Disorders, Intellectual Disabilities and Learning Disabilities aren't restricted to low income cities. I'd bet Mesa AZ has just about the same percentage of special needs kids as Detroit and yet they graduate 3 times as many HS students for 1/3 the $/pupil.

I can't believe,you're comparing the cost of educating students in Mesa, Az. with Detroit, MI.
The family income in Mesa is $43,256 and $23,600 in Detroit.
The Murder rate in Mesa is 5/100,000 and 45/100,000 in Detroit, the city with highest crime rate in the nation.

In Detroit Public Schools, one in every 5 students is in special education, one of the highest rates in the nation. Detroit Public Schools has lost 1/3 of it's student population mostly to charter schools leaving the most difficult students to educate, a mountain of debt, and insufficient funding. This is exactly what can happen to public schools across the country if voters allow government to use vouchers to suck off the best students and funding from public schools.

That doesn't explain why it costs 3 times as much unless you're saying people who live in Detroit are incapable of learning. Are you a racist?

What will happen with vouchers is that parents who care will send their teachable kids to private schools where they will get an education that will prepare them for the real world. Public schools will see that their system is a failure and either adapt or close.

The first step in solving any problem is proposing a new solution. To say that public education since the beginning of HEW has deteriorated would be an understatement.
Throwing more money at public schools is like filling the gas tank of a car with a blown engine.

What I'm saying is providing education to students from very low income families is costly. Without head start programs and free kindergarten which is expensive, most of these kids won't be ready for 1st grade which means they will lack self confidence, the ability to follow rules and routines, and the ability to sustain any degree of attention to any single task. Low income students are twice as likely to need some type of special ed, a major expense for school districts. Discipline and crime require increased security. However, the major problem is these kids need individual attention which means lower class sizes and teacher aids, another big expense.

The public as well as government bureaucrats are horrified to see schools that have a graduation rate of 50% and are twice as expensive to operate as schools with an 80% graduation rates. What they don't realize is just how hard it is to educate these kids and resources required.

Some people see vouchers as the solution. The problem is that privates schools don't offer the type support these kids need and most of the private schools don't want them. I believe the best students in these "bad" public schools will use vouchers leaving the public schools less money to do an even harder job than they have now. If I thought the public schools would get the funding they needed to deal with the problems, I would have no opposition to vouchers, but I think we all know that will not be the case.

 

[OKTexas]

Typical liberal response, check the funding behind some of the most miserable school systems in the country, many are receiving more per student than some of the best in the country. Utah is a great example of getting better results with some of the lowest per student spending. Quality parents and teachers are more important than money.

"check the funding behind some of the most miserable school systems in the country, many are receiving more per student than some of the best in the country."
I certainly agree with that statement. Poor performing schools which are usually schools filled with kids from low income families in high crime areas are loaded with special ed. kids with Emotional and Behavior Disorders, Intellectual Disabilities, Learning Disabilities, requiring special attention remedial education, early intervention programs, vocational cooperative work programs, increased security for staff and students, and in many cases lower class sizes. For these and other reasons per pupil cost in such schools can easily be 50% higher the best schools in a district. Cities and states with large numbers of such schools will have high costs.

Emotional and Behavior Disorders, Intellectual Disabilities and Learning Disabilities aren't restricted to low income cities. I'd bet Mesa AZ has just about the same percentage of special needs kids as Detroit and yet they graduate 3 times as many HS students for 1/3 the $/pupil.

I can't believe,you're comparing the cost of educating students in Mesa, Az. with Detroit, MI.
The family income in Mesa is $43,256 and $23,600 in Detroit.
The Murder rate in Mesa is 5/100,000 and 45/100,000 in Detroit, the city with highest crime rate in the nation.

In Detroit Public Schools, one in every 5 students is in special education, one of the highest rates in the nation. Detroit Public Schools has lost 1/3 of it's student population mostly to charter schools leaving the most difficult students to educate, a mountain of debt, and insufficient funding. This is exactly what can happen to public schools across the country if voters allow government to use vouchers to suck off the best students and funding from public schools.

That doesn't explain why it costs 3 times as much unless you're saying people who live in Detroit are incapable of learning. Are you a racist?

What will happen with vouchers is that parents who care will send their teachable kids to private schools where they will get an education that will prepare them for the real world. Public schools will see that their system is a failure and either adapt or close.

The first step in solving any problem is proposing a new solution. To say that public education since the beginning of HEW has deteriorated would be an understatement.
Throwing more money at public schools is like filling the gas tank of a car with a blown engine.

What I'm saying is providing education to students from very low income families is costly. Without head start programs and free kindergarten which is expensive, most of these kids won't be ready for 1st grade which means they will lack self confidence, the ability to follow rules and routines, and the ability to sustain any degree of attention to any single task. Low income students are twice as likely to need some type of special ed, a major expense for school districts. Discipline and crime require increased security. However, the major problem is these kids need individual attention which means lower class sizes and teacher aids, another big expense.

The public as well as government bureaucrats are horrified to see schools that have a graduation rate of 50% and are twice as expensive to operate as schools with an 80% graduation rates. What they don't realize is just how hard it is to educate these kids and resources required.

Some people see vouchers as the solution. The problem is that privates schools don't offer the type support these kids need and most of the private schools don't want them. I believe the best students in these "bad" public schools will use vouchers leaving the public schools less money to do an even harder job than they have now. If I thought the public schools would get the funding they needed to deal with the problems, I would have no opposition to vouchers, but I think we all know that will not be the case.

I guess you missed where it said in the article that the money for the vouchers in LA do not come from school funds, they are funded separately.

 

[Spare_change]

$5,000 and they get an empty seat with more to spend on remaining students.

The whole point of vouchers is to provide an alternative to the failing public schools.

I suppose the public school system COULD do something to make that unnecessary, but that would require educators to actually focus on education instead of salary and benefits.

the whole point of vouchers is to defund public education.

Here's some crazy idea. How about spending enough on the inner city schools so they can do their jobs?

This is an excellent example of the left's ability to twist and pervert logic to fit a preconceived political message. It is inherently illogical, inconsistent with reality, and tries to evoke emotion rather than rational thought.

Or, as some would say ...... FAIL !

 

[Ernie S.]

$5,000 and they get an empty seat with more to spend on remaining students.

The whole point of vouchers is to provide an alternative to the failing public schools.

I suppose the public school system COULD do something to make that unnecessary, but that would require educators to actually focus on education instead of salary and benefits.

the whole point of vouchers is to defund public education.

Here's some crazy idea. How about spending enough on the inner city schools so they can do their jobs?

This is an excellent example of the left's ability to twist and pervert logic to fit a preconceived political message. It is inherently illogical, inconsistent with reality, and tries to evoke emotion rather than rational thought.

Or, as some would say ...... FAIL !

That's Joe.....

 

[Flopper]

"check the funding behind some of the most miserable school systems in the country, many are receiving more per student than some of the best in the country."
I certainly agree with that statement. Poor performing schools which are usually schools filled with kids from low income families in high crime areas are loaded with special ed. kids with Emotional and Behavior Disorders, Intellectual Disabilities, Learning Disabilities, requiring special attention remedial education, early intervention programs, vocational cooperative work programs, increased security for staff and students, and in many cases lower class sizes. For these and other reasons per pupil cost in such schools can easily be 50% higher the best schools in a district. Cities and states with large numbers of such schools will have high costs.

Emotional and Behavior Disorders, Intellectual Disabilities and Learning Disabilities aren't restricted to low income cities. I'd bet Mesa AZ has just about the same percentage of special needs kids as Detroit and yet they graduate 3 times as many HS students for 1/3 the $/pupil.

I can't believe,you're comparing the cost of educating students in Mesa, Az. with Detroit, MI.
The family income in Mesa is $43,256 and $23,600 in Detroit.
The Murder rate in Mesa is 5/100,000 and 45/100,000 in Detroit, the city with highest crime rate in the nation.

In Detroit Public Schools, one in every 5 students is in special education, one of the highest rates in the nation. Detroit Public Schools has lost 1/3 of it's student population mostly to charter schools leaving the most difficult students to educate, a mountain of debt, and insufficient funding. This is exactly what can happen to public schools across the country if voters allow government to use vouchers to suck off the best students and funding from public schools.

That doesn't explain why it costs 3 times as much unless you're saying people who live in Detroit are incapable of learning. Are you a racist?

What will happen with vouchers is that parents who care will send their teachable kids to private schools where they will get an education that will prepare them for the real world. Public schools will see that their system is a failure and either adapt or close.

The first step in solving any problem is proposing a new solution. To say that public education since the beginning of HEW has deteriorated would be an understatement.
Throwing more money at public schools is like filling the gas tank of a car with a blown engine.

What I'm saying is providing education to students from very low income families is costly. Without head start programs and free kindergarten which is expensive, most of these kids won't be ready for 1st grade which means they will lack self confidence, the ability to follow rules and routines, and the ability to sustain any degree of attention to any single task. Low income students are twice as likely to need some type of special ed, a major expense for school districts. Discipline and crime require increased security. However, the major problem is these kids need individual attention which means lower class sizes and teacher aids, another big expense.

The public as well as government bureaucrats are horrified to see schools that have a graduation rate of 50% and are twice as expensive to operate as schools with an 80% graduation rates. What they don't realize is just how hard it is to educate these kids and resources required.

Some people see vouchers as the solution. The problem is that privates schools don't offer the type support these kids need and most of the private schools don't want them. I believe the best students in these "bad" public schools will use vouchers leaving the public schools less money to do an even harder job than they have now. If I thought the public schools would get the funding they needed to deal with the problems, I would have no opposition to vouchers, but I think we all know that will not be the case.

I guess you missed where it said in the article that the money for the vouchers in LA do not come from school funds, they are funded separately.

That's a bit deceptive. The voucher may be funded separately but the money the public school get's is determined by the schools FTE. (Full Time Equivalency). If the school loses students, it loses money.

 

[OKTexas]

Emotional and Behavior Disorders, Intellectual Disabilities and Learning Disabilities aren't restricted to low income cities. I'd bet Mesa AZ has just about the same percentage of special needs kids as Detroit and yet they graduate 3 times as many HS students for 1/3 the $/pupil.

I can't believe,you're comparing the cost of educating students in Mesa, Az. with Detroit, MI.
The family income in Mesa is $43,256 and $23,600 in Detroit.
The Murder rate in Mesa is 5/100,000 and 45/100,000 in Detroit, the city with highest crime rate in the nation.

In Detroit Public Schools, one in every 5 students is in special education, one of the highest rates in the nation. Detroit Public Schools has lost 1/3 of it's student population mostly to charter schools leaving the most difficult students to educate, a mountain of debt, and insufficient funding. This is exactly what can happen to public schools across the country if voters allow government to use vouchers to suck off the best students and funding from public schools.

That doesn't explain why it costs 3 times as much unless you're saying people who live in Detroit are incapable of learning. Are you a racist?

What will happen with vouchers is that parents who care will send their teachable kids to private schools where they will get an education that will prepare them for the real world. Public schools will see that their system is a failure and either adapt or close.

The first step in solving any problem is proposing a new solution. To say that public education since the beginning of HEW has deteriorated would be an understatement.
Throwing more money at public schools is like filling the gas tank of a car with a blown engine.

What I'm saying is providing education to students from very low income families is costly. Without head start programs and free kindergarten which is expensive, most of these kids won't be ready for 1st grade which means they will lack self confidence, the ability to follow rules and routines, and the ability to sustain any degree of attention to any single task. Low income students are twice as likely to need some type of special ed, a major expense for school districts. Discipline and crime require increased security. However, the major problem is these kids need individual attention which means lower class sizes and teacher aids, another big expense.

The public as well as government bureaucrats are horrified to see schools that have a graduation rate of 50% and are twice as expensive to operate as schools with an 80% graduation rates. What they don't realize is just how hard it is to educate these kids and resources required.

Some people see vouchers as the solution. The problem is that privates schools don't offer the type support these kids need and most of the private schools don't want them. I believe the best students in these "bad" public schools will use vouchers leaving the public schools less money to do an even harder job than they have now. If I thought the public schools would get the funding they needed to deal with the problems, I would have no opposition to vouchers, but I think we all know that will not be the case.

I guess you missed where it said in the article that the money for the vouchers in LA do not come from school funds, they are funded separately.

That's a bit deceptive. The voucher may be funded separately but the money the public school get's is determined by the schools FTE. (Full Time Equivalency). If the school loses students, it loses money.

Then all I can say is maybe they should be doing a better job to retain the body count.

 

[Spare_change]

Typical liberal response, check the funding behind some of the most miserable school systems in the country, many are receiving more per student than some of the best in the country. Utah is a great example of getting better results with some of the lowest per student spending. Quality parents and teachers are more important than money.

"check the funding behind some of the most miserable school systems in the country, many are receiving more per student than some of the best in the country."
I certainly agree with that statement. Poor performing schools which are usually schools filled with kids from low income families in high crime areas are loaded with special ed. kids with Emotional and Behavior Disorders, Intellectual Disabilities, Learning Disabilities, requiring special attention remedial education, early intervention programs, vocational cooperative work programs, increased security for staff and students, and in many cases lower class sizes. For these and other reasons per pupil cost in such schools can easily be 50% higher the best schools in a district. Cities and states with large numbers of such schools will have high costs.

Emotional and Behavior Disorders, Intellectual Disabilities and Learning Disabilities aren't restricted to low income cities. I'd bet Mesa AZ has just about the same percentage of special needs kids as Detroit and yet they graduate 3 times as many HS students for 1/3 the $/pupil.

I can't believe,you're comparing the cost of educating students in Mesa, Az. with Detroit, MI.
The family income in Mesa is $43,256 and $23,600 in Detroit.
The Murder rate in Mesa is 5/100,000 and 45/100,000 in Detroit, the city with highest crime rate in the nation.

In Detroit Public Schools, one in every 5 students is in special education, one of the highest rates in the nation. Detroit Public Schools has lost 1/3 of it's student population mostly to charter schools leaving the most difficult students to educate, a mountain of debt, and insufficient funding. This is exactly what can happen to public schools across the country if voters allow government to use vouchers to suck off the best students and funding from public schools.

That doesn't explain why it costs 3 times as much unless you're saying people who live in Detroit are incapable of learning. Are you a racist?

What will happen with vouchers is that parents who care will send their teachable kids to private schools where they will get an education that will prepare them for the real world. Public schools will see that their system is a failure and either adapt or close.

The first step in solving any problem is proposing a new solution. To say that public education since the beginning of HEW has deteriorated would be an understatement.
Throwing more money at public schools is like filling the gas tank of a car with a blown engine.

What I'm saying is providing education to students from very low income families is costly. Without head start programs and free kindergarten which is expensive, most of these kids won't be ready for 1st grade which means they will lack self confidence, the ability to follow rules and routines, and the ability to sustain any degree of attention to any single task. Low income students are twice as likely to need some type of special ed, a major expense for school districts. Discipline and crime require increased security. However, the major problem is these kids need individual attention which means lower class sizes and teacher aids, another big expense.

The public as well as government bureaucrats are horrified to see schools that have a graduation rate of 50% and are twice as expensive to operate as schools with an 80% graduation rates. What they don't realize is just how hard it is to educate these kids and resources required.

Some people see vouchers as the solution. The problem is that privates schools don't offer the type support these kids need and most of the private schools don't want them. I believe the best students in these "bad" public schools will use vouchers leaving the public schools less money to do an even harder job than they have now. If I thought the public schools would get the funding they needed to deal with the problems, I would have no opposition to vouchers, but I think we all know that will not be the case.

I think we shall agree to disagree. Vouchers are not the problem; they are not the solution; they are a symptom. You cannot cure a disease by treating the symptoms; you only make the patient comfortable while he dies. Parents recognize that the system is failing their children. When they complain to the school system, they are summarily ignored. They are left with only one alternative for their child - leave the school system that is failing them for something better (or perceived to be better).

We, simply, have a broken and failing education system. We throw massive amounts of money at a problem that money can't solve, but we do it so that we can at say we did 'something'. We keep trying to patch a broken system, but never look at the reason WHY it is broken.

The education system today is no different than it was 50 years ago. We lock a group of kids in a classroom, throw information at them, and then test them to see if they can regurgitate what they were just subjected to. Then, when we find that this didn't work, we change the system. We dumb down the presentation, and when that still fails, we dumb down the criteria.

It used to be that our education system valued mediocrity - lower the criteria to include even the least capable student, while punishing the high achievers with boredom. Now, we don't even do that - we expose them to information (not an education), and then we pass them on. It is phenomenally stupid to think that a student who can't read at the 4th grade level should be required to read Shakespeare. But, we do it every day.

So, the 4th grade reader is passed along again - until, eventually, he is passed along right out of school. He is the happy owner of a high school diploma, and is functionally illiterate. Then, we wonder why he can't get a job. The education system has failed him - he didn't fail the education system.

Vouchers aren't the answer - unless, of course,you are a parent who wants a quality education for YOUR child.

Vouchers aren't the answer - they are an indictment of the educational process in the US.

Vouchers aren't the answer - they are a cry for help.

 

[Flopper]

$5,000 and they get an empty seat with more to spend on remaining students.

The whole point of vouchers is to provide an alternative to the failing public schools.

I suppose the public school system COULD do something to make that unnecessary, but that would require educators to actually focus on education instead of salary and benefits.

the whole point of vouchers is to defund public education.

Here's some crazy idea. How about spending enough on the inner city schools so they can do their jobs?

You're spending 3 times as much in Detroit as Mesa now and getting 1/3 the return. It's not about money.
More than anything, it's about parents. The fact that Liberals can't see that explains why we have barack obama in the White House.

That's what happens when 1/3 of the public school student population moves to charter or private schools. Public schools loose the best and brightest and are left the most challenging students to educate.

 

[Ernie S.]

$5,000 and they get an empty seat with more to spend on remaining students.

The whole point of vouchers is to provide an alternative to the failing public schools.

I suppose the public school system COULD do something to make that unnecessary, but that would require educators to actually focus on education instead of salary and benefits.

the whole point of vouchers is to defund public education.

Here's some crazy idea. How about spending enough on the inner city schools so they can do their jobs?

You're spending 3 times as much in Detroit as Mesa now and getting 1/3 the return. It's not about money.
More than anything, it's about parents. The fact that Liberals can't see that explains why we have barack obama in the White House.

That's what happens when 1/3 of the public school student population moves to charter or private schools. Public schools loose the best and brightest and are left the most challenging students to educate.

Then for God's sake, fix the system so it attracts the best and brightest right back and figure out how to motivate the challenging ones.
I'm thinking the best way to improve public education is make serious cuts to welfare. Hunger is a great motivator.

 

[Unkotare]

$5,000 and they get an empty seat with more to spend on remaining students.

The whole point of vouchers is to provide an alternative to the failing public schools.

I suppose the public school system COULD do something to make that unnecessary, but that would require educators to actually focus on education instead of salary and benefits.

the whole point of vouchers is to defund public education.

Here's some crazy idea. How about spending enough on the inner city schools so they can do their jobs?

You're spending 3 times as much in Detroit as Mesa now and getting 1/3 the return. It's not about money.
More than anything, it's about parents. The fact that Liberals can't see that explains why we have barack obama in the White House.

That's what happens when 1/3 of the public school student population moves to charter or private schools. Public schools loose the best and brightest and are left the most challenging students to educate.

Do they really "loose" them?

 

[Flopper]

"check the funding behind some of the most miserable school systems in the country, many are receiving more per student than some of the best in the country."
I certainly agree with that statement. Poor performing schools which are usually schools filled with kids from low income families in high crime areas are loaded with special ed. kids with Emotional and Behavior Disorders, Intellectual Disabilities, Learning Disabilities, requiring special attention remedial education, early intervention programs, vocational cooperative work programs, increased security for staff and students, and in many cases lower class sizes. For these and other reasons per pupil cost in such schools can easily be 50% higher the best schools in a district. Cities and states with large numbers of such schools will have high costs.

Emotional and Behavior Disorders, Intellectual Disabilities and Learning Disabilities aren't restricted to low income cities. I'd bet Mesa AZ has just about the same percentage of special needs kids as Detroit and yet they graduate 3 times as many HS students for 1/3 the $/pupil.

I can't believe,you're comparing the cost of educating students in Mesa, Az. with Detroit, MI.
The family income in Mesa is $43,256 and $23,600 in Detroit.
The Murder rate in Mesa is 5/100,000 and 45/100,000 in Detroit, the city with highest crime rate in the nation.

In Detroit Public Schools, one in every 5 students is in special education, one of the highest rates in the nation. Detroit Public Schools has lost 1/3 of it's student population mostly to charter schools leaving the most difficult students to educate, a mountain of debt, and insufficient funding. This is exactly what can happen to public schools across the country if voters allow government to use vouchers to suck off the best students and funding from public schools.

That doesn't explain why it costs 3 times as much unless you're saying people who live in Detroit are incapable of learning. Are you a racist?

What will happen with vouchers is that parents who care will send their teachable kids to private schools where they will get an education that will prepare them for the real world. Public schools will see that their system is a failure and either adapt or close.

The first step in solving any problem is proposing a new solution. To say that public education since the beginning of HEW has deteriorated would be an understatement.
Throwing more money at public schools is like filling the gas tank of a car with a blown engine.

What I'm saying is providing education to students from very low income families is costly. Without head start programs and free kindergarten which is expensive, most of these kids won't be ready for 1st grade which means they will lack self confidence, the ability to follow rules and routines, and the ability to sustain any degree of attention to any single task. Low income students are twice as likely to need some type of special ed, a major expense for school districts. Discipline and crime require increased security. However, the major problem is these kids need individual attention which means lower class sizes and teacher aids, another big expense.

The public as well as government bureaucrats are horrified to see schools that have a graduation rate of 50% and are twice as expensive to operate as schools with an 80% graduation rates. What they don't realize is just how hard it is to educate these kids and resources required.

Some people see vouchers as the solution. The problem is that privates schools don't offer the type support these kids need and most of the private schools don't want them. I believe the best students in these "bad" public schools will use vouchers leaving the public schools less money to do an even harder job than they have now. If I thought the public schools would get the funding they needed to deal with the problems, I would have no opposition to vouchers, but I think we all know that will not be the case.

I think we shall agree to disagree. Vouchers are not the problem; they are not the solution; they are a symptom. You cannot cure a disease by treating the symptoms; you only make the patient comfortable while he dies. Parents recognize that the system is failing their children. When they complain to the school system, they are summarily ignored. They are left with only one alternative for their child - leave the school system that is failing them for something better (or perceived to be better).

We, simply, have a broken and failing education system. We throw massive amounts of money at a problem that money can't solve, but we do it so that we can at say we did 'something'. We keep trying to patch a broken system, but never look at the reason WHY it is broken.

The education system today is no different than it was 50 years ago. We lock a group of kids in a classroom, throw information at them, and then test them to see if they can regurgitate what they were just subjected to. Then, when we find that this didn't work, we change the system. We dumb down the presentation, and when that still fails, we dumb down the criteria.

It used to be that our education system valued mediocrity - lower the criteria to include even the least capable student, while punishing the high achievers with boredom. Now, we don't even do that - we expose them to information (not an education), and then we pass them on. It is phenomenally stupid to think that a student who can't read at the 4th grade level should be required to read Shakespeare. But, we do it every day.

So, the 4th grade reader is passed along again - until, eventually, he is passed along right out of school. He is the happy owner of a high school diploma, and is functionally illiterate. Then, we wonder why he can't get a job. The education system has failed him - he didn't fail the education system.

Vouchers aren't the answer - unless, of course,you are a parent who wants a quality education for YOUR child.

Vouchers aren't the answer - they are an indictment of the educational process in the US.

Vouchers aren't the answer - they are a cry for help.

I think most of the objection to vouchers will be a mute points because most private schools are not going to accept vouchers for a number of reasons.

• Most of the states that have passed voucher law have restricted their use to a relatively small part of the student population, for example only students coming from schools scoring an F rating, only students whose family income is less 150% of the poverty level, only areas where no public schools exist, only students with certain disabilities.
• Free or Reduced Lunch programs which serve nearly 50 million students are only available in non-profit schools. Private schools that do offer Free or Reduced lunches must meet a number of serving and reporting requirement plus open their books up to federal audits.
• The majority of private schools have religious based programs/curriculum and most parents who send their children to these schools want that type education. Vouchers will make it difficult if not impossible for these schools to offer a religious based education.
• Many private schools are oppose to vouchers because they do not want the school opened up to government regulation.
• Parents who send their children to private schools of course want vouchers to help pay tuition. However, they also want their school to filter out the undesirable elements that exist in so many public schools. With vouchers, it becomes much more difficult to weed out these students.

The bottom line is even it courts allow these programs, they will have very little effect on public education.

 

[Clementine]

Translation: Eric Holder wants poor black kids to stay in shitty schools so they grow up to be poor black adults who keep voting Democrat.

U.S. government sues to block vouchers in some Louisiana school systems | NOLA.com

Properly educated people do better in life. People who do better in life don't want nanny government. Without helpless, ignorant people, liberals become irrelevant. Liberals are afraid of people becoming intelligent and successful.