U.S. Is Broke, Can't Afford to Raise the Debt Ceiling

[Wolfsister77]

Bottom line is raising the debt ceiling has always been an automatic thing with no games being played. It was just done. Most countries don't even have a debt ceiling. This is money that has already been spent. Playing games with it and threatening default only hurts our credit rating and our economy.

There is no reason not to raise it.

Actually there is a GOOD reason not to raise it since operating under of the status quo of continuous accumulation of debt and currency debasement is a 100% sure-fire way of destroying the currency and the economy along with it.

At some point we're going to have to grow up and pay the piper or are all you borrow and spend types just hoping to be six feet under when the piper shows up to be paid? I guess if you don't care about the constant erosion of the American standard of living and the egregious disparity of wealth then the status quo isn't a concern, however there are some people that actually DO care about the future economic health of the nation and don't want to see our children living under a mountain a debt that they can never hope to recover from.

Your second paragraph makes a lot of assumptions that are false.

Yes, we have to raise the debt ceiling and pay our bills that the Treasury is lawfully required to pay. Yes, we can hurt our credit rating and damage our economy if we don't. No, we don't even need a debt ceiling limit in the first place.

If we don't raise the debt ceiling, it will could significantly increase the US's long term debt and our ability to borrow at low rates. Rates increase, debt increases.

Like I said above, there is no reason not to do like we've always done and raise it.

 

[jasonnfree]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnpqJGxSqao&feature=c4-overview&list=UUIjuLiLHdFxYtFmWlbTGQRQ

America's one of the wealthiest countries in the world and the wealthiest among countries with large populations so how can it be broke just because these tea bag republican freaks in congress don't want to honor our debts?

 

[NightFox]

Bottom line is raising the debt ceiling has always been an automatic thing with no games being played. It was just done. Most countries don't even have a debt ceiling. This is money that has already been spent. Playing games with it and threatening default only hurts our credit rating and our economy.

There is no reason not to raise it.

Actually there is a GOOD reason not to raise it since operating under of the status quo of continuous accumulation of debt and currency debasement is a 100% sure-fire way of destroying the currency and the economy along with it.

At some point we're going to have to grow up and pay the piper or are all you borrow and spend types just hoping to be six feet under when the piper shows up to be paid? I guess if you don't care about the constant erosion of the American standard of living and the egregious disparity of wealth then the status quo isn't a concern, however there are some people that actually DO care about the future economic health of the nation and don't want to see our children living under a mountain a debt that they can never hope to recover from.

Your second paragraph makes a lot of assumptions that are false.

Yes, we have to raise the debt ceiling and pay our bills that the Treasury is lawfully required to pay. Yes, we can hurt our credit rating and damage our economy if we don't. No, we don't even need a debt ceiling limit in the first place.

If we don't raise the debt ceiling, it will could significantly increase the US's long term debt and our ability to borrow at low rates. Rates increase, debt increases.

Like I said above, there is no reason not to do like we've always done and raise it.

First off, we CAN service our existing debt without accumulating new debt since the Federal Government has sufficient cash flow to cover mandatory spending and debt service (check the numbers yourself instead of relying on the parrots in the media telling you that it can't be done).

Secondly, what exactly is your end game? When does the accumulation of debt and currency debasement end and what exactly does your end game look like?

 

[Jackson]

There will come a time the bubble will burst. The dollar will not be worth anything and the government will have to cut their programs...the good with the bad. When we had a chance to look at the ineffective and duplicative programs and eliminate them, we didn't do it.

Then the real crisis will come and everything will be cut to the bone and people will be really hurt when it was needless. But Congress wouldn't do their jobs and it will come to pass.

What fools we kept electing!

 

[Wolfsister77]

Actually there is a GOOD reason not to raise it since operating under of the status quo of continuous accumulation of debt and currency debasement is a 100% sure-fire way of destroying the currency and the economy along with it.

At some point we're going to have to grow up and pay the piper or are all you borrow and spend types just hoping to be six feet under when the piper shows up to be paid? I guess if you don't care about the constant erosion of the American standard of living and the egregious disparity of wealth then the status quo isn't a concern, however there are some people that actually DO care about the future economic health of the nation and don't want to see our children living under a mountain a debt that they can never hope to recover from.

Your second paragraph makes a lot of assumptions that are false.

Yes, we have to raise the debt ceiling and pay our bills that the Treasury is lawfully required to pay. Yes, we can hurt our credit rating and damage our economy if we don't. No, we don't even need a debt ceiling limit in the first place.

If we don't raise the debt ceiling, it will could significantly increase the US's long term debt and our ability to borrow at low rates. Rates increase, debt increases.

Like I said above, there is no reason not to do like we've always done and raise it.

First off, we CAN service our existing debt without accumulating new debt since the Federal Government has sufficient cash flow to cover mandatory spending and debt service (check the numbers yourself instead of relying on the parrots in the media telling you that it can't be done).

Secondly, what exactly is your end game? When does the accumulation of debt and currency debasement end and what exactly does your end game look like?

You make a lot of assumptions. I'm talking about the debt ceiling here. Paying bills we already owe.

It has to be done. There shouldn't even be an argument. There is no reason to even have a debt ceiling. It's pointless.

The debt ceiling has no link to the budget or spending so is not an appropriate tool to use to try to control either.

Budgets are passed separately and if you want to cut spending, do so then. But now we have to pay for the spending that has already been approved by Congress. Congress has already agree'd to this spending. The US can and should pay it's bills.

And yes, if we default we can hurt the rate at which we borrow, therefore raising our debt even more.

This is just simple budgetary matters which I'm sure you understand.

Using the debt ceiling to control spending makes zero sense.

 

[Wolfsister77]

There will come a time the bubble will burst. The dollar will not be worth anything and the government will have to cut their programs...the good with the bad. When we had a chance to look at the ineffective and duplicative programs and eliminate them, we didn't do it.

Then the real crisis will come and everything will be cut to the bone and people will be really hurt when it was needless. But Congress wouldn't do their jobs and it will come to pass.

What fools we kept electing!

I actually partially agree with this that Congress is responsible for the mess we are in and the fact that they can't work together and do their jobs to fix it is one of the reasons we are in the trouble we are in.

 

[NightFox]

Your second paragraph makes a lot of assumptions that are false.

Yes, we have to raise the debt ceiling and pay our bills that the Treasury is lawfully required to pay. Yes, we can hurt our credit rating and damage our economy if we don't. No, we don't even need a debt ceiling limit in the first place.

If we don't raise the debt ceiling, it will could significantly increase the US's long term debt and our ability to borrow at low rates. Rates increase, debt increases.

Like I said above, there is no reason not to do like we've always done and raise it.

First off, we CAN service our existing debt without accumulating new debt since the Federal Government has sufficient cash flow to cover mandatory spending and debt service (check the numbers yourself instead of relying on the parrots in the media telling you that it can't be done).

Secondly, what exactly is your end game? When does the accumulation of debt and currency debasement end and what exactly does your end game look like?

You make a lot of assumptions. I'm talking about the debt ceiling here. Paying bills we already owe.

It has to be done. There shouldn't even be an argument. There is no reason to even have a debt ceiling. It's pointless.

The debt ceiling has no link to the budget or spending so is not an appropriate tool to use to try to control either.

Budgets are passed separately and if you want to cut spending, do so then. But now we have to pay for the spending that has already been approved by Congress. Congress has already agree'd to this spending. The US can and should pay it's bills.

And yes, if we default we can hurt the rate at which we borrow, therefore raising our debt even more.

This is just simple budgetary matters which I'm sure you understand.

Using the debt ceiling to control spending makes zero sense.

They say the second time around is always better ... SO ....

First off, we CAN service our existing debt without accumulating new debt since the Federal Government has sufficient cash flow to cover mandatory spending and debt service (check the numbers yourself instead of relying on the parrots in the media telling you that it can't be done).

Secondly, what exactly is your end game? When does the accumulation of debt and currency debasement end and what exactly does your end game look like?

Hoping for a hyperbole free future but not holding my breath .....

 

[Wolfsister77]

First off, we CAN service our existing debt without accumulating new debt since the Federal Government has sufficient cash flow to cover mandatory spending and debt service (check the numbers yourself instead of relying on the parrots in the media telling you that it can't be done).

Secondly, what exactly is your end game? When does the accumulation of debt and currency debasement end and what exactly does your end game look like?

You make a lot of assumptions. I'm talking about the debt ceiling here. Paying bills we already owe.

It has to be done. There shouldn't even be an argument. There is no reason to even have a debt ceiling. It's pointless.

The debt ceiling has no link to the budget or spending so is not an appropriate tool to use to try to control either.

Budgets are passed separately and if you want to cut spending, do so then. But now we have to pay for the spending that has already been approved by Congress. Congress has already agree'd to this spending. The US can and should pay it's bills.

And yes, if we default we can hurt the rate at which we borrow, therefore raising our debt even more.

This is just simple budgetary matters which I'm sure you understand.

Using the debt ceiling to control spending makes zero sense.

They say the second time around is always better ... SO ....

First off, we CAN service our existing debt without accumulating new debt since the Federal Government has sufficient cash flow to cover mandatory spending and debt service (check the numbers yourself instead of relying on the parrots in the media telling you that it can't be done).

Secondly, what exactly is your end game? When does the accumulation of debt and currency debasement end and what exactly does your end game look like?

Hoping for a hyperbole free future but not holding my breath .....

This thread is about the debt ceiling and raising it and I gave you my on topic answer that you just glossed over and ignored.

I answered your questions. If you have new ones, let me know. The fact that you answered so quickly tells me you don't really want to hear what I have to say. That's no big deal. I'm happy to move on.

I'm not going to go into your land of assumptions and critiques of how I answer questions so like I said, if you have something better to add, let me know.

I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Wolfsister77]

There should be no debate on this issue as the debt ceiling has nothing to do with future expenditures. It needs to be increased to pay for our current expenditures. The debate about spending should be done on future budgets, not current ones.

This makes perfect sense to me. Seems so obvious.

 

[jon_berzerk]

There should be no debate on this issue as the debt ceiling has nothing to do with future expenditures. It needs to be increased to pay for our current expenditures. The debate about spending should be done on future budgets, not current ones.

This makes perfect sense to me. Seems so obvious.

it is for more spending

we need to curb how much the congress and the president authorize to spend

why did the prezbo repeatedly lie today

about passing a budget

this is in no way a budget

 

[NightFox]

You make a lot of assumptions. I'm talking about the debt ceiling here. Paying bills we already owe.

It has to be done. There shouldn't even be an argument. There is no reason to even have a debt ceiling. It's pointless.

The debt ceiling has no link to the budget or spending so is not an appropriate tool to use to try to control either.

Budgets are passed separately and if you want to cut spending, do so then. But now we have to pay for the spending that has already been approved by Congress. Congress has already agree'd to this spending. The US can and should pay it's bills.

And yes, if we default we can hurt the rate at which we borrow, therefore raising our debt even more.

This is just simple budgetary matters which I'm sure you understand.

Using the debt ceiling to control spending makes zero sense.

They say the second time around is always better ... SO ....

First off, we CAN service our existing debt without accumulating new debt since the Federal Government has sufficient cash flow to cover mandatory spending and debt service (check the numbers yourself instead of relying on the parrots in the media telling you that it can't be done).

Secondly, what exactly is your end game? When does the accumulation of debt and currency debasement end and what exactly does your end game look like?

Hoping for a hyperbole free future but not holding my breath .....

This thread is about the debt ceiling and raising it and I gave you my on topic answer that you just glossed over and ignored.

Uh-huh.... actually there wasn't really much to "gloss over" since you essentially just repeated your premise without actually acknowledging that your premise completely misses the mark that the debt ceiling is the only tool that has any political impact in Washington with respect to federal spending restraint ..... SEE: SEQUESTER , this in 2013 not 1913, get with the times.

I answered your questions. If you have new ones, let me know. The fact that you answered so quickly tells me you don't really want to hear what I have to say. That's no big deal. I'm happy to move on.

The question I posed was not difficult and you didn't even attempt to answer it... specifically WHAT IS YOUR END GAME ? (the other was a statement of fact relative to the cash flow position of the Federal Government). At least make SOME attempt, like when does cumulative operating deficits become too much 200% of GDP, 300%? when are unfunded liabilities too much for the economy to bear ? What happens when we hit the limit ? Or does it just go on forever?

I'm not going to go into your land of assumptions and critiques of how I answer questions so like I said, if you have something better to add, let me know.

Which "assumptions" would those be? and when you actually answer a question I may or may not "critique" it depending on the quality of your answer.

 

[Wolfsister77]

There should be no debate on this issue as the debt ceiling has nothing to do with future expenditures. It needs to be increased to pay for our current expenditures. The debate about spending should be done on future budgets, not current ones.

This makes perfect sense to me. Seems so obvious.

it is for more spending

we need to curb how much the congress and the president authorize to spend

why did the prezbo repeatedly lie today

about passing a budget

this is in no way a budget

Right, it's not a budget. If they want to cut spending, they need to look at that with future budgetary discussions. They are either going to have to cut spending or raise revenue but the point I am repeatedly trying to make is that right now, this discussion on the debt limit shouldn't even be a debate.

 

[MeBelle]

There should be no debate on this issue as the debt ceiling has nothing to do with future expenditures. It needs to be increased to pay for our current expenditures. The debate about spending should be done on future budgets, not current ones.

This makes perfect sense to me. Seems so obvious.

it is for more spending

we need to curb how much the congress and the president authorize to spend

why did the prezbo repeatedly lie today

about passing a budget

this is in no way a budget

The United States and Denmark are the only democratic countries to have legislative restrictions on issuing debt. The Danish debt ceiling is, however, mainly a formality; it follows the budgeting and expenditure process, allows ample scope for unforeseen deficits, and is therefore quite uncontroversial and has never been the subject of controversy as has its American counterpart.

Amerikanere kan lære af dansk gældsloft | Nyheder | DR

 

[Wolfsister77]

They say the second time around is always better ... SO ....

First off, we CAN service our existing debt without accumulating new debt since the Federal Government has sufficient cash flow to cover mandatory spending and debt service (check the numbers yourself instead of relying on the parrots in the media telling you that it can't be done).

Secondly, what exactly is your end game? When does the accumulation of debt and currency debasement end and what exactly does your end game look like?

Hoping for a hyperbole free future but not holding my breath .....

This thread is about the debt ceiling and raising it and I gave you my on topic answer that you just glossed over and ignored.

Uh-huh.... actually there wasn't really much to "gloss over" since you essentially just repeated your premise without actually acknowledging that your premise completely misses the mark that the debt ceiling is the only tool that has any political impact in Washington with respect to federal spending restraint ..... SEE: SEQUESTER , this in 2013 not 1913, get with the times.

I answered your questions. If you have new ones, let me know. The fact that you answered so quickly tells me you don't really want to hear what I have to say. That's no big deal. I'm happy to move on.

The question I posed was not difficult and you didn't even attempt to answer it... specifically WHAT IS YOUR END GAME ? (the other was a statement of fact relative to the cash flow position of the Federal Government). At least make SOME attempt, like when does cumulative operating deficits become too much 200% of GDP, 300%? when are unfunded liabilities too much for the economy to bear ? What happens when we hit the limit ? Or does it just go on forever?

I'm not going to go into your land of assumptions and critiques of how I answer questions so like I said, if you have something better to add, let me know.

Which "assumptions" would those be? and when you actually answer a question I may or may not "critique" it depending on the quality of your answer.

I don't have a simple answer to your question. When does the deficit become too big? That depends on a number of different factors. The state of the economy is probably the biggest factor and the future prospects for economic growth.

The debt ceiling is supposed to control spending but it doesn't work. Congress is acting irresponsibly as per usual. Just get rid of it and we won't have to have this fight every time the debt ceiling needs to be raised which does damage to our economy and is not a fight that needs to be fought. Fight over the budget instead. That's what Congress does best. Fight with each other.

 

[jon_berzerk]

There should be no debate on this issue as the debt ceiling has nothing to do with future expenditures. It needs to be increased to pay for our current expenditures. The debate about spending should be done on future budgets, not current ones.

This makes perfect sense to me. Seems so obvious.

it is for more spending

we need to curb how much the congress and the president authorize to spend

why did the prezbo repeatedly lie today

about passing a budget

this is in no way a budget

Right, it's not a budget. If they want to cut spending, they need to look at that with future budgetary discussions. They are either going to have to cut spending or raise revenue but the point I am repeatedly trying to make is that right now, this discussion on the debt limit shouldn't even be a debate.

of course it is debatable

the government has plenty of tax receipts coming in

they can spend as they go

 

[Wolfsister77]

it is for more spending

we need to curb how much the congress and the president authorize to spend

why did the prezbo repeatedly lie today

about passing a budget

this is in no way a budget

Right, it's not a budget. If they want to cut spending, they need to look at that with future budgetary discussions. They are either going to have to cut spending or raise revenue but the point I am repeatedly trying to make is that right now, this discussion on the debt limit shouldn't even be a debate.

of course it is debatable

the government has plenty of tax receipts coming in

they can spend as they go

Sure they can, but they have to pay the bills. This money is already spent.

 

[petro]

The reason this issue comes up every three months is that Harry Reid and the majority have failed to pass a budget since April 29,2009. 1360 days and counting. While this is a bipartisan failure it still shows how unwilling the majority is to compromise and a complete failure of the leadership of the majority.

Last POTUS to balance the budget. Bill Clinton...Reid should take some lessons from the former DFL President. Holding my breath now.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Right, it's not a budget. If they want to cut spending, they need to look at that with future budgetary discussions. They are either going to have to cut spending or raise revenue but the point I am repeatedly trying to make is that right now, this discussion on the debt limit shouldn't even be a debate.

of course it is debatable

the government has plenty of tax receipts coming in

they can spend as they go

Sure they can, but they have to pay the bills. This money is already spent.

no it isnt spent

they want to raise the limit so they can spend it

by borrowing the money from bonds

im just tired of the run around

from all of them

time to get a handle on it

 

[Wolfsister77]

of course it is debatable

the government has plenty of tax receipts coming in

they can spend as they go

Sure they can, but they have to pay the bills. This money is already spent.

no it isnt spent

they want to raise the limit so they can spend it

by borrowing the money from bonds

im just tired of the run around

from all of them

time to get a handle on it

Good enough. I'm tired of it too.

 

[Wolfsister77]

The reason this issue comes up every three months is that Harry Reid and the majority have failed to pass a budget since April 29,2009. 1360 days and counting. While this is a bipartisan failure it still shows how unwilling the majority is to compromise and a complete failure of the leadership of the majority.

Last POTUS to balance the budget. Bill Clinton...Reid should take some lessons from the former DFL President. Holding my breath now.

I agree that it's a bipartisan failure. Both sides are completely unwilling to compromise and that's really the biggest problem.

Congressional deadlock due to partisan gamesmanship.

It's getting old.