Ukraine Sinks New 500 Million Russian Warship Makarov

[Esdraelon]

Do you think Russia's response will be nuclear or will it be with conventional weapons on a Nato member?

Either would widen the war and draw NATO into the conflict. Putin changed his nuclear strategy due to the reality that Russia in no way can compete with all of NATO. They couldn't stop a NATO working without the U.S.

As for keeping this latest ship damage/sinking quiet, they have a major patriotic celebration in 2 days so they wouldn't spoil that with more bad news. No one really knows what the hell he's going to do on Monday but if he was WISE... he'd declare victory over Mariupol falling and begin pulling his troops back.

No one is really expecting him to do the smart thing though. His attack and then his military showing itself to be near totally inept at modern maneuver warfare has brought the world to the brink and it will never be like it was between '45 and '21 again. We are headed into uncharted and very dangerous times.

 

[Esdraelon]

Fires can be contained unless secondary exolosions occur. Training makes all the difference in the world.

What training do you have to question me?

Absolutely. And the willingness of a crew to risk life and limb rather than run for the boats, makes a lot of difference, as well. From all I've read, if the crew of the Forrestal had been poorly trained or cowardly, we'd have lost that carrier. IIRC, our carrier crews all the way back to WWII were trained to push fueled or armed planes over the side if the ship was on fire near them, as well as closing off compartments and flooding some hangar decks fuel lines with CO2 to keep fires from spreading as well.

 

[badger2]

I linked the reddit page. Look at the date. Look a the paint job, look at the building on the other side of the fantail, look at the parade pennants in the rigging. Old pic.

The other pic shows 1x Gorshkov FFG alongside the pier, and 1x Grigorovich FFG on the left with a little bit of smoke behind. That is taken Sevastopol bay.

One Grigorovich in Sevastopol- confirmed, that image was posted online a couple days ago.
One Grigorovich in the Med. confirmed. Links below.

Whereabouts of third Grigorovich- UNKNOWN (Pentagon: "we've been looking for it all day")

BlackSeaNews | The Presence of Russian Warships in the Mediterranean Sea as of 9 March 2022

The formation of a huge "Mediterranean Squadron" of the Russian Navy in February 2022, using the Northern, Baltic, and Pacific Fleets’ ships allowed the Russian...

www.blackseanews.net

Russian forces in the Mediterranean - Wk17/2022

Task Force Composition As reported by OSINT at the morning of April 30 Weekly Brief A significant portion of the task force has returned tow...

russianfleetanalysis.blogspot.com

This is some good scholarship, though Wiki and others are still prisoner to conspiracy without official verification.

 

[para bellum]

This is some good scholarship, though Wiki and others are still prisoner to conspiracy without official verification.

What I was showing you was that the "proof" you were offering in the Twitter link (that the Makarov was alive and well) is not proof.

If there were 2 Grigorovich-class FFG's in Sevastopol Bay, I would know the Makarov was afloat. I know the third is in the Med.

 

[eagle1462010]

Absolutely. And the willingness of a crew to risk life and limb rather than run for the boats, makes a lot of difference, as well. From all I've read, if the crew of the Forrestal had been poorly trained or cowardly, we'd have lost that carrier. IIRC, our carrier crews all the way back to WWII were trained to push fueled or armed planes over the side if the ship was on fire near them, as well as closing off compartments and flooding some hangar decks fuel lines with CO2 to keep fires from spreading as well.

Actually the Forestal Fire was and probably still is the main training example in the Navy. The fire fighting teams were wiped out by the weapons explosions on the flight deck.

The rest of the crew made major mistakes that actually caused the fire to spread. They used foam to smother fuel oil fires ...then others sprayed with water which started the fire back up and spread them.

The Forestal fire was why All Navy personnel are required to be trained in fire fighting. It is Mandatory training on every ship in the Navy. Fire fighting drills happen every day in port on most ships.

That is why our Navy saves the ships.

 

[krichton]

Anything that floats can be sunk. Even a 500 pound bomb can sink a ship if it hits the right place. We have had ships survive multiple hits.......we have the best damage control in the world..........But it doesn't mean a single hit can not kill a ship.

Rocket Fuel...........Ammunition........Gas for the Gas Turbines........will send a ship to the bottom if the secondaries go off.

My point was that modern US naval ships have advanced early warning systems in place, along with defense measures capable of stopping incoming missles, not that they were incapable of being destroyed. The last time a US naval ship (frigate) has ever been hit with a missle was 35 years ago and that was only because the ship was slow to respond to a threat and even then slower to turn on defensive counter measures.

 

[eagle1462010]

My point was that modern US naval ships have advanced early warning systems in place, along with defense measures capable of stopping incoming missles. The last time a US naval ship (frigate) has ever been hit with a missle was 35 years ago and that was only because the ship was slow to respond to a threat and even then slower to turn on defensive counter measures.

Depends. On where you are at. If you are in close quarters to land your reaction time is reduced. You also cant run CIWS in all the time in heavy traffic areas.

That is the Persian Gulf. And the Roberts if my memory is correct.

Another problem in Combat Control. Is there are so many contacts in your area OS s become confused and miss a potential threat. Aka. Are shit is so good can blind you looking at all the information.

 

[eagle1462010]

My bad The Stark. Roberts killed the Iranian Frigate with a Harpoon

 

[para bellum]

The OHPs were ASW platforms, not AAW platforms.

The Stark was attacked by a converted business jet which the ADA system software could not identify as a threat. The defensive systems did not detect launch.

Stark wasn't on a war footing. Multiple tactical stations were unmanned and multiple sensors and weapons systems were either inoperative or in standby mode (including the Phalanx).

Eagle is right. Despite the 2 missile hits, Stark's damage control kept her afloat and got her to port for repair and return to fleet service.

 

[theHawk]

Apparently Putin is not well and may have a serious illness and a limited time on this planet. He may decide to go out with a bang.

Exactly. Yet the Biden Regime keeps pushing more war.

 

[excalibur]

Fuck Ukraine. They are as corrupt as Russia, maybe even more so.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

No one spends more money on hardware then we do. A US frigate could cost 1 billion. But US frigates aren't sunk from a simple missle strike so you have to take that into account. Not to mention there could very well have been a 500 million dollars worth of missles on board. Suddenly it's not so much a bargain anymore.

We don't have any frigates.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Turkey blocks all foreign submarines from the Black Sea. The only way for a NATO sub would be if Romania was to acquire one.

It wouldn't make a lot of sense to put a sub there anyway, we could air launch a Harpoon from standoff range easy enough with much less risk.

We'd also have to expect Russia to recover the missile fragments from the sea bottom so they could attribute the attack to us.

We already know the US is helping Ukraine with target ID and vessel movements. What's odd to me is that people think Ukraine can't make a modern anti-shipping missile of the Harpoon/KH-35 class.

What's worse is that any modern CIWS shouldn't have any problem dealing with one. It's not a particularly challenging target.

Fatigue/attention span can come into play. It's just plain boring to sit and stare at a radar display and see nothing for days on end. Now imagine you're a conscript who doesn't really care to be there in the first place...

Pardon me, but you just made an entire post that contained so many errors and misinformation, you should just stop.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

IF Putin orders a tactical nuke to be used and his military complies (not assured) then the question before the rest of the world is stark. If NATO does not answer in kind then Putin may well feel he can use more of them in the future at a time and place of HIS choosing.
If NATO DOES respond with a tactical nuke, where would they strike? Not Ukraine, surely? If they strike Russian territory, there is no way he refrains from getting into a tit-for-tat. IOW, once he breaks that barrier, NO good can come from it for anyone.

I think the only non-nuclear response should be something so dramatic that it totally isolates them for decades, or until they come to the table with a willingness to unilaterally disarm from their nukes. Their "words" can never be trusted again.

What tactical nukes? NATO has none!

 

[para bellum]

Pardon me, but you just made an entire post that contained so many errors and misinformation, you should just stop.

Pick one and tell me why it's wrong.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Depends. On where you are at. If you are in close quarters to land your reaction time is reduced. You also cant run CIWS in all the time in heavy traffic areas.

That is the Persian Gulf. And the Roberts if my memory is correct.

Another problem in Combat Control. Is there are so many contacts in your area OS s become confused and miss a potential threat. Aka. Are shit is so good can blind you looking at all the information.

Nope. USS stark was hit by two Exocet missiles in the Gulf. The Roberts hit a mine.

 

[progressive hunter]

 

[beagle9]

Cool.

When Russia drops a nuke on them, will you still be cheering?

Hawk I agree that escalation is definitely a possibility in all of this, and that's going to be regretful for the world if containment isn't strived for as a temporary solution for this war in Ukraine.

Then diplomacy should be used to somehow work out an agreement between the two sides, and this is to be achieved by much more rational and cooler calmer head's who are professionals of this type of art and skill.

The war being told by one side as the other side is being sensored does no one any good. Bring on RT news or any other news that wants to broadcast from both sides of a conflict. I have faith that most Americans would be able to discern between the differences of right and wrong in a conflict, and this no matter what the fake news propaganda story is or might be on any given day from anywhere it comes in from.

We've always had our leader's in some form or another tell us that Russia is an enemy, yet they've dealt with them for many years concerning buying oil and other product's from the Russians vice-a-versa.

Just give us the truth is all we want.

 

[beagle9]

Then why is the title of this thread “Ukraine sinks new $500 million Russian ship”?

Two different ships I think.

 

[beagle9]

That is correct....it seems spectacular to the bench warmers here because it represents a big loss to Russia....they have chosen sides like the simpletons that they are. But you, as usual, are spot on with this message. Ships have become nearly obsolete in the face of improved missile technologies. No matter how big, well constructed or defended they are they have become little more than huge floating targets. If a real war broke out between US and China over Taiwan....the US navy would be Junk in a month.

JO

Your word's are being proven in the Ukraine theater. The Falklands war had many lessons learned in also dealing with modernized warfare.