Ukrainian pilot shot down Malaysian Boeing MH17, secret witness says. 12/23/2014

[Indofred]

Lots of versions of this story around, all suggesting various shoot down methods, but none showing rebels with the ability to do it.
That's the big hole in the story - no one can show the rebels had the weapons.

Is this BUK missile launcher that shot down MH17 being smuggled back to Russia Daily Mail Online

Hang on a minute.
That was two days after the shoot down, and here's the plates.

How much evidence do we need?
The Russian were stupid, running around for two days with a BUK system on a truck with Russian military plates.
Lucky the photographer was there to take a few pictures.

MH17 We have proof Russia knew Stuff.co.nz

At 2am (local time) on Friday July 18, about 8 hours after the plane came down, in a region of Ukraine near the Russian border, two big trucks each carrying a BUK system - one with a missing missile, were seen heading for Russia.

When?
The photos were two days after, but the Ukraine government claimed they buggered off to Russia within eight hours.

MH17 We have proof Russia knew Stuff.co.nz

At 4am on Saturday morning three more such trucks moved over the border into Russia. One had a BUK-M1, one was empty, and the third carried a tracking module that runs the system.

So, what do we have?
Conclusive proof that a Russian vehicle was photographed in Ukraine, if it was Russian, and if it was in Ukraine, more than 24 hours after the Ukrainians claimed the phantom Russian BUKs had left the country.

No convincing.

The Russian were stupid, running around for two days with a BUK system on a truck with Russian military plates.

Yeah, the bumbling Russian "rebels" aren't the smartest guys around.

Get real.
This truck propaganda photo was published AFTER the Ukrainians claimed the missile system was already back in Russia.

 

[Indofred]

NATO is moving into much of the old Soviet union, and pushing further and further into countries that border Russia.

How dare Russia's warlike neighbors defend themselves against poor peaceful Russia.
What has Russia ever done to those nasty Ukrainians anyway?

Depends.
America arranged the removal of their elected government, then there were elections that didn't cover the people most likely to vote against the US installed puppet government.
Other than that, the Russians stopped the gas supply when they didn't pay their bill.

America arranged the removal of their elected government

How'd we do that? Did we get thousands of protesters to wear collanders on their heads?
Did we get the Russian puppet to use his thugs to shoot those protesters?

In recording of U.S. diplomat blunt talk on Ukraine - The Washington Post

Read all about how the US government decided who would be in the new Ukrainian puppet government.
Oh, you don't have to read, they published the recording.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Lots of versions of this story around, all suggesting various shoot down methods, but none showing rebels with the ability to do it.
That's the big hole in the story - no one can show the rebels had the weapons.

Is this BUK missile launcher that shot down MH17 being smuggled back to Russia Daily Mail Online

Hang on a minute.
That was two days after the shoot down, and here's the plates.

How much evidence do we need?
The Russian were stupid, running around for two days with a BUK system on a truck with Russian military plates.
Lucky the photographer was there to take a few pictures.

MH17 We have proof Russia knew Stuff.co.nz

At 2am (local time) on Friday July 18, about 8 hours after the plane came down, in a region of Ukraine near the Russian border, two big trucks each carrying a BUK system - one with a missing missile, were seen heading for Russia.

When?
The photos were two days after, but the Ukraine government claimed they buggered off to Russia within eight hours.

MH17 We have proof Russia knew Stuff.co.nz

At 4am on Saturday morning three more such trucks moved over the border into Russia. One had a BUK-M1, one was empty, and the third carried a tracking module that runs the system.

So, what do we have?
Conclusive proof that a Russian vehicle was photographed in Ukraine, if it was Russian, and if it was in Ukraine, more than 24 hours after the Ukrainians claimed the phantom Russian BUKs had left the country.

No convincing.

The Russian were stupid, running around for two days with a BUK system on a truck with Russian military plates.

Yeah, the bumbling Russian "rebels" aren't the smartest guys around.

Get real.
This truck propaganda photo was published AFTER the Ukrainians claimed the missile system was already back in Russia.

This truck propaganda photo was published AFTER the Ukrainians claimed the missile system was already back in Russia.

The photo doesn't count unless they publish before the commies sneak it back across the border?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

NATO is moving into much of the old Soviet union, and pushing further and further into countries that border Russia.

How dare Russia's warlike neighbors defend themselves against poor peaceful Russia.
What has Russia ever done to those nasty Ukrainians anyway?

Depends.
America arranged the removal of their elected government, then there were elections that didn't cover the people most likely to vote against the US installed puppet government.
Other than that, the Russians stopped the gas supply when they didn't pay their bill.

America arranged the removal of their elected government

How'd we do that? Did we get thousands of protesters to wear collanders on their heads?
Did we get the Russian puppet to use his thugs to shoot those protesters?

In recording of U.S. diplomat blunt talk on Ukraine - The Washington Post

Read all about how the US government decided who would be in the new Ukrainian puppet government.
Oh, you don't have to read, they published the recording.

You're kidding, an Obama administration official said something stupid? LOL!

Hold on, this is gonna take a minute for me to process.

 

[Indofred]

I should add, the US said a very nice "Sorry" to the EU, but totally forgot to apologise to the Ukrainian people for installing a puppet government.

US official apologises to EU counterparts for undiplomatic language US news The Guardian

 

[Indofred]

Lots of versions of this story around, all suggesting various shoot down methods, but none showing rebels with the ability to do it.
That's the big hole in the story - no one can show the rebels had the weapons.

Is this BUK missile launcher that shot down MH17 being smuggled back to Russia Daily Mail Online

Hang on a minute.
That was two days after the shoot down, and here's the plates.

How much evidence do we need?
The Russian were stupid, running around for two days with a BUK system on a truck with Russian military plates.
Lucky the photographer was there to take a few pictures.

MH17 We have proof Russia knew Stuff.co.nz

At 2am (local time) on Friday July 18, about 8 hours after the plane came down, in a region of Ukraine near the Russian border, two big trucks each carrying a BUK system - one with a missing missile, were seen heading for Russia.

When?
The photos were two days after, but the Ukraine government claimed they buggered off to Russia within eight hours.

MH17 We have proof Russia knew Stuff.co.nz

At 4am on Saturday morning three more such trucks moved over the border into Russia. One had a BUK-M1, one was empty, and the third carried a tracking module that runs the system.

So, what do we have?
Conclusive proof that a Russian vehicle was photographed in Ukraine, if it was Russian, and if it was in Ukraine, more than 24 hours after the Ukrainians claimed the phantom Russian BUKs had left the country.

No convincing.

The Russian were stupid, running around for two days with a BUK system on a truck with Russian military plates.

Yeah, the bumbling Russian "rebels" aren't the smartest guys around.

Get real.
This truck propaganda photo was published AFTER the Ukrainians claimed the missile system was already back in Russia.

This truck propaganda photo was published AFTER the Ukrainians claimed the missile system was already back in Russia.

The photo doesn't count unless they publish before the commies sneak it back across the border?

Dude, the date stamp is AFTER the trucks were claimed to have gone.
Sort of fucks up their story.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I should add, the US said a very nice "Sorry" to the EU, but totally forgot to apologise to the Ukrainian people for installing a puppet government.

US official apologises to EU counterparts for undiplomatic language US news The Guardian

The US didn't install anything in the Ukraine.
I'm just glad the Russian stooge is out of there.
Now if only the Russian troops would leave.
Hopefully the crashing Russian economy will help with that.

 

[Indofred]

NATO is moving into much of the old Soviet union, and pushing further and further into countries that border Russia.

How dare Russia's warlike neighbors defend themselves against poor peaceful Russia.
What has Russia ever done to those nasty Ukrainians anyway?

Depends.
America arranged the removal of their elected government, then there were elections that didn't cover the people most likely to vote against the US installed puppet government.
Other than that, the Russians stopped the gas supply when they didn't pay their bill.

America arranged the removal of their elected government

How'd we do that? Did we get thousands of protesters to wear collanders on their heads?
Did we get the Russian puppet to use his thugs to shoot those protesters?

In recording of U.S. diplomat blunt talk on Ukraine - The Washington Post

Read all about how the US government decided who would be in the new Ukrainian puppet government.
Oh, you don't have to read, they published the recording.

You're kidding, an Obama administration official said something stupid? LOL!

Hold on, this is gonna take a minute for me to process.

Obama is a dick.
However, regardless of his status as a diseased penis, the truth is out there; America decided the membership of their puppet government in the Ukraine.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Is this BUK missile launcher that shot down MH17 being smuggled back to Russia Daily Mail Online

Hang on a minute.
That was two days after the shoot down, and here's the plates.

How much evidence do we need?
The Russian were stupid, running around for two days with a BUK system on a truck with Russian military plates.
Lucky the photographer was there to take a few pictures.

MH17 We have proof Russia knew Stuff.co.nz

At 2am (local time) on Friday July 18, about 8 hours after the plane came down, in a region of Ukraine near the Russian border, two big trucks each carrying a BUK system - one with a missing missile, were seen heading for Russia.

When?
The photos were two days after, but the Ukraine government claimed they buggered off to Russia within eight hours.

MH17 We have proof Russia knew Stuff.co.nz

At 4am on Saturday morning three more such trucks moved over the border into Russia. One had a BUK-M1, one was empty, and the third carried a tracking module that runs the system.

So, what do we have?
Conclusive proof that a Russian vehicle was photographed in Ukraine, if it was Russian, and if it was in Ukraine, more than 24 hours after the Ukrainians claimed the phantom Russian BUKs had left the country.

No convincing.

The Russian were stupid, running around for two days with a BUK system on a truck with Russian military plates.

Yeah, the bumbling Russian "rebels" aren't the smartest guys around.

Get real.
This truck propaganda photo was published AFTER the Ukrainians claimed the missile system was already back in Russia.

This truck propaganda photo was published AFTER the Ukrainians claimed the missile system was already back in Russia.

The photo doesn't count unless they publish before the commies sneak it back across the border?

Dude, the date stamp is AFTER the trucks were claimed to have gone.
Sort of fucks up their story.

Maybe the initial claim was wrong?
Maybe someone saw it leave the town where they launched from and
someone else saw them later, before they entered Russia?

 

[Indofred]

The US didn't install anything in the Ukraine.
I

The published recording suggests your post may be in error.

 

[Indofred]

Maybe the initial claim was wrong?
Maybe someone saw it leave the town where they launched from and
someone else saw them later, before they entered Russia?

And maybe a little pixie told them where to find and take photos of a Russian marked truck in the Ukraine.
Get real; even if the Russians had a missile system there, they would have changed the number plates.
There is no independent evidence of any Russian or rebel missile systems in that area, but there is reliable, photo documented evidence of Ukrainian SAMs there, to be fired against rebel aircraft - but the rebels don't have any.

Why did the Ukrainians deploy SAMs against nothing?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

So far Russians are the only ones who are trying to push MH-17 crash investigation. Holland and Britain, who are designated to investigate it, are keeping suspiciously silence. Malaysia, who’s Boeing was shot, is not even allowed to participate in investigation, may be because it has published some results of its own in in July:
MH17 Pockmarks look like from very very heavy machine gun fire says first OSCE monitor on-scene New Straits Times
At the time of crash there was a group of American satellites above the place of the catastrophe, which has taped the full picture of the Boeing crash. However that information has not been provided to the public probably because it doesn’t support what the narrative the USA, EU and Ukraine have been telling.
At the end of his interview the secret witness said: “I would recommend to analyze all the reports of deaths/whereabouts of all the Ukrainian professional fighter pilots since July, 17. More likely such kind of person would be eliminated by now.” Russia is hoping ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) would be interested to use the new witnesses’ data in their investigation.

For those who don’t remember I’d like to remind: Ukraine has already had experience in shooting a civilian plane and denying it before, in 2001. The plane was flying from Israel to Russia.

A secret witness claims that it was a Ukrainian Su-25 aircraft that downed the Malaysian Boeing, flight MH-17, near Donetsk, in the summer of 2014. The Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper, whose journalists interviewed the unnamed witness, said that on July 17, two Ukrainian military aircraft were shot down in the war zone, and the pilot of the third fighter jet fired an air-to-air missile into the Malaysian Boeing.

(The witness is not ready to announce his name to public yet because he has relatives in Ukraine and fears for their lives and safety. As a non-proud resident of Ukraine I can confirm: he has very good reasons for that. There truly are a lot of people killed, kidnapped and thrown to prison, just because they didn’t share same point of view with official Kiev. And as a rule local police even refuses to investigate those cases.)

Below is the interview that the man gave to the Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper.

Su-25 fighter jet returned without missiles

"Where were you July 17, 2014, the day when the Malaysian Boeing was shot down?"

"I was on the territory of Ukraine in Dnepropetrovsk, in Aviatorskoe village. There's a common airport there. Fighters and helicopters were based there. The planes would regular go on sorties, Su-25 fighter jets would bomb Donetsk and Luhansk."

"Did the planes fly operationally every day?"

"They did, every day."

"Why do you suggest that these planes could be related to the crash of the Boeing?"

"For several reasons. Out of eight planes that were based there, only two were outfitted with air-to-air missiles. The missiles were mounted on those two planes."

"Why? Were there battles in the air?"

"No, the missiles were mounted on the aircraft to cover them up in the air, just in case. Basically, the planes were armed with ammunition for ground operations, such as unguided missiles and bombs."

"Tell us about July 17th."

"The planes were flying regularly that day. They were flying the whole day, since early morning. In the afternoon, about an hour before the Boeing was shot down, three strike fighters took off for a mission. I do not remember the time exactly. One of the aircraft was equipped with such missiles. It was a Su-25."

"Did you personally see that?"

"Yes, I did."

"Where was you observation point?"

"On the territory. I won't say specifically."

"Did you have a possibility to see what was being suspended to the pylons of the aircraft? Could you confuse between air-to-air and ground-to-air missiles?"

"No, I could not mix them up. They vary in size, fin assembly, coloration and the guiding head. It is very easy to identify them. In general, after a while, only one plane returned, two others were shot down, somewhere in the east of Ukraine, so I was told. One plane returned, on which those missiles were suspended."

"Did it return without the missiles?"

"Without missiles. The pilot was very scared."

"Are you familiar with that pilot, have you ever seen him?"

"Yes."

"Can you say what his name is?"

"His last name is Voloshin."

"Was he alone in the plane?'

"Yes, he was. The aircraft is designed for one person."

"Do you know his name?"

"Vladislav, I think. I can not say for sure. He's a captain."

The plane was at the wrong place at the wrong time

"So Captain Voloshin returned. Next?"

"He returned without ammunition."

"The missiles were gone?"

"Yes."

"So the plane returned from a mission, you were not aware about the crash of the Boeing yet, but you were somehow surprised with the absence of air-to-air missiles. How come?"

"Those missiles are not included in the basic ammunition. They can be suspended on a plane following a special order. As a rule, they tried not to fly aircraft with those missiles, because one can not move such missiles in the air just like that. It's possible to hang only two such missiles on this plane. They have never been used before. They had been decommissioned. However, a week before the crash of the Boeing, the use of those missiles was urgently extended. The missiles had not been used for many years."

"Why?"

"Their resource expired. They are of the Soviet production."

Ukrainian pilot shot down the Malaysian Boeing

"Did they hang them on the plane that day?"

"They were all the time with those missiles."

"But they did not fly?"

"They tried not to, as every flight reduces resource. Yet, the plane took off that day."

"And it returned without them?"

"Yes. As long as I know the pilot a little ... it is quite possible that when two aircraft were shot down before his eyes, he simply showed a frightened, inadequate reaction. He could launch the missiles at the Boeing out of fright or to revenge. Maybe, he took it for some other combat aircraft."

"Were they the missiles with homing heads?"

"Yes."

"Do they search for the target themselves?"

"No. It is the pilot who sets the target. Then he launches a missile, and it flies to the target."

"What else do you remember from that day? What did the pilot say?"

"The phrase that he said when he was taken off the plane: "Wrong plane." And in the evening, there was a phrase that he said answering a question from another pilot, who asked Voloshin: "What happened to the plane?" To which he replied: "The plane was in the wrong place at the wrong times."

"Was the pilot serving there for long? How old is he?"

"Voloshin is about 30 years. His unit is based in Nikolaev. They were sent to Dnepropetrovsk. Before that, he had been to Chuguev, near Kharkov. They were bombing Donetsk and Luhansk during all that time. And, according to a serviceman from the unit in Nikolaev, they still continue to do it."

Ukraine stated that on the day of the disaster there were no sorties made

"Did the pilots have a good combat experience?"

"Those who were there they were experienced. The Nikolaev unit was the best unit in Ukraine in 2013, I think."

"Did Pilots try to discuss the story of the Boeing?"

"All attempts to discuss it would be immediately suppressed. The pilots, they would interact with each other, and they were so ... proud."

"What happened to this pilot, Captain Voloshin, after they learned about the Boeing?"

'They continued the sorties. The pilots were the same."

"Let's try to simulate events. How could they develop? Three aircraft flew on a combat mission. They found themselves in the zone, in which the passenger Boeing was flying. Two aircraft were shot down. Captain Voloshin got nervous and scared, and perhaps he took the Boeing for a combat aircraft?"

"Maybe. The distance was large, so he could not see what kind of plane it was exactly."

"From what distance can those missiles be launched?"

"From about 3-5 km, they can set a target."

"What about the speed difference between a combat aircraft and a Boeing?

"It doesn't matter: a missile has a pretty good speed. A plane can - at its maximum altitude of 7,000 meters - easy fix the target. The flight range of the missile is more than 10 kilometers."

"At what distance does this missile explode? Can it hit a target and then explode?

"It can, depending on the modification. It can literally fly into the body and it can also explode at a distance of 500 meters."

"We worked at the crash site of the Boeing and noticed that fragments hit the body of the aircraft шт a very concentrated way. It looked like it exploded just two meters away from the Boeing."

"There is such a missile, it explodes like shrapnel."

"Ukraine stated that they had no sorties that day. We checked various sources on the downed aircraft. Ukraine denies that its warplanes were flying that day."

"I know about it. Ukraine also said that those two aircraft were shot down on December 16, not on December 17. They repeatedly changed the date. But in fact, sorties would be conducted daily. I saw it myself. There were sorties made even during the time of the truce, however, less often."

"What weapons were there on the aircraft at your airport? Were phosphorous bombs used or incendiary mixtures? The Ukrainian artillery was using them actively on the ground."

"I did not see phosphorous bombs. They used volume-detonating bombs, though."

"Are they banned?"

"Yes, they are. The bomb was designed for Afghanistan. It was banned under some convention, I do not remember exactly which one. The bomb scorches everything out."

"Were they mounted on aircraft and then used in combat action?"

"Yes. There were also banned cluster bombs. An aviation cluster bomb, depending on the size, can strike very large targets. To completely destroy a stadium, one bomb is enough."

"Why were they using such weapons?"

"They were following orders. Whose orders exactly remains unclear."

"What the main purpose of such weapons - intimidation?"

"No - maximum destruction of manpower."

"Why did you go to Russia ad decided to tell us about it? You're not the only witness!"

"The Security Service of Ukraine and the National Guard of Ukraine intimidated all. People can be beaten for every careless word, or jailed for any insignificant suspicion of being sympathetic to Russia or to the militia. I was against the "anti-terrorist operation" from the start. I do not agree with the policy of the Ukrainian administration. A civil war is a wrong way to go. Killing your own people is not normal. I do not want to stay in Ukraine to be involved in all that."

Ukrainian pilot shot down Malaysian Boeing MH17 secret witness says - English pravda.ru

Explain why the wife and kids of the pilot on that Malaysian boeing MH17 disappeared - leaving their home behind with no forwarding address. Explain why family members claimed to have received phone calls from the cell phones of passengers after the planes disappearance was announced? Explain why not a trace of wreckage has been found yet. Explain why China rushed into the search when that is not their usual MO in such happenings. Explain why Putin had a photo of himself with a shadow of a jumbo jet behind him on the cover of TIME - as if to say - no place like hiding in plain sight. I do not believe for one second that plane crashed or was shot down. I believe it is hidden away until Putin has some trained terrorists use it as a weapon against the USA. Mark my words - this plane will show up eventually. I just pray it does get shot out of the sky before it gets over land! With a tank large enough to hold fuel for a flight over here we better hope that happens.

 

[westwall]

Sounds like a Russian plant...it was Russia that shot it down. Besides they said they flew 3 su-25....lol. It's a miracle if they get one off the ground... And this guy was talking about aircraft loads.....was he an ammo troop? Weapons? Well he went into detail on the bombs but not the missile? What type of missile was it.... ? That would tell me a lot on the capabilities. And he said that they were scared and shot a missile at an aircraft he could not identify or readily see. As a pilot with experience in the Ukraine he would know the routes and have the routes and maps with him of civilian aircraft and military zones and what altitude they fly at and he would be used to those areas as being an experienced pilot not to mention the aircraft would be transmitting its modes 1 and 3c altitude and general aircraft Id so he would know what aircraft it was and that it was a civilian aircraft..lol bunch of bullshit....the su 25 is a primary air to ground aircraft with a/a capabilities. Looking at this story I see so many holes in it that it's laughable.....worked avionics for 20 years....don't be gullible dude. That "guy" was full of shit.

Who has proven Russians shot it down? All the world has heard Obama's making a big noise about "irrefutable evidence", has anybody seen it? He must show those pictures at least in memory and for respect for the victims and their families.

Nobody has "proven" anything. But the Russian separatists sure clammed up fast when the aircraft they were crowing about shooting down turned out to be an airliner and not the Ukrainian transport they thought it was.

Although Ukraine blamed pro-Russian militants for shooting down the plane, separatist leader Oleg Tsarev denied the accusations. "We don't have weapons that can take down a plane from that altitude," Tsarev told TIME. Business Insider explains that despite Tsarev's denials, the rebels reportedly had such weapons and have recently taken down multiple Ukrainian military aircraft. The New Republic's Julia Ioffe notes, "An hour before #MH17 went down, separatists were bragging about downing a Ukrainian military plane."

Malaysia Airlines Plane Crash Flight Shot Down Over Ukraine LATEST UPDATES

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Republicans defending their God Putin. Priceless

Looks like a couple of Russians defending him.

LOL, I am American, my family has been here since the 1600s, trying to call me a Russian is laughable.

Believe it or not, there are people in the US that oppose Obama's and the other western government's stupid policy with Russia.

Opposing Russia doesn't mean supporting Obama.

Obama is inconsequential, he is more a pawn than anything else in this policy. I like how your panties are in a bunch over being on the same side as Obama on an issue though.

The "revolution" you supported in Ukraine was backed by Soros and the lefty crew you claim to oppose though.
CNN.com - Transcripts

It is funny that Obama was going to be more flexible after his election.
His 2009 reset was also good.
Opposing Obama doesn't mean supporting Russia either.

The "revolution" you supported in Ukraine was backed by Soros

If Soros is on the opposite side from Putin, good for him. He got one right. Finally.

So you support breaking diplomatic promises and support a scumbag globalist inciting a revolt against a democratic government that has led to civil war? You are a piece of work.

I support the Ukrainian people against Putin.

So do I. All the way.

 

[georgephillip]

5 billion

Since 1991.

Joe Biden is working hard to end corruption and bring democracy to Ukraine

"Including these announcements, the U.S. government has now committed nearly $320 million in assistance to Ukraine this year, in addition to the $1 billion sovereign loan guarantee issued in May 2014.

"The United States stands ready to continue to work with our partners to provide Ukraine with sufficient financing as it stabilizes its economy and carries out urgently needed reforms."

FACT SHEET U.S. Assistance to Ukraine The White House

 

[Toro]

Russia is invading Ukraine.

It shot down a passenger plane.

Now, it is trying to whitewash the murder of innocent civilians.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Russia is invading the Ukraine and let us not forget Stalin murdered 9 million plus Ukrainian people by forced starvation. But the the Malaysian jumbo jet has got to be out there somewhere. I believe it was hijacked and they are holding it and I feel very strongly that Putin knows where that plane is!

 

[Stratford57]

Although Ukraine blamed pro-Russian militants for shooting down the plane, separatist leader Oleg Tsarev denied the accusations. "We don't have weapons that can take down a plane from that altitude," Tsarev told TIME. Business Insider explains that despite Tsarev's denials, the rebels reportedly had such weapons and have recently taken down multiple Ukrainian military aircraft. The New Republic's Julia Ioffe notes, "An hour before #MH17 went down, separatists were bragging about downing a Ukrainian military plane."

Malaysia Airlines Plane Crash Flight Shot Down Over Ukraine LATEST UPDATES

There is still no contradiction in Tsarev's words. Yes, in July rebels were getting pretty successful in shooting more and more Ukrainian planes, which kept coming to bomb their lands, but not all the planes, just the ones which were not higher than certain altitude (MH-17 was flying too high for them to get).
And as far as I remember rebels did shoot another Ukrainian plane just before MH-17 was shot. The point is: just because rebels shot down low flying fighters does not mean they were able to shoot down an aircraft at much higher altitude such as MH-17 was flying.
BTW, if MH-17 was shot just 40 sec later, the pieces would fall down on Russian lands and that would be much stronger reason to blame Russians for that.

 

[TimothysAlaska]

Russia is invading the Ukraine and let us not forget Stalin murdered 9 million plus Ukrainian people by forced starvation. But the the Malaysian jumbo jet has got to be out there somewhere. I believe it was hijacked and they are holding it and I feel very strongly that Putin knows where that plane is!

Wrong aircraft dude. This is another maylasian aircraft that was shot down over the Ukraine. The missing maylasian aircraft your talking about, I doubt Russia hijacked it because that was on the other side of the world.

 

[TimothysAlaska]

Although Ukraine blamed pro-Russian militants for shooting down the plane, separatist leader Oleg Tsarev denied the accusations. "We don't have weapons that can take down a plane from that altitude," Tsarev told TIME. Business Insider explains that despite Tsarev's denials, the rebels reportedly had such weapons and have recently taken down multiple Ukrainian military aircraft. The New Republic's Julia Ioffe notes, "An hour before #MH17 went down, separatists were bragging about downing a Ukrainian military plane."

Malaysia Airlines Plane Crash Flight Shot Down Over Ukraine LATEST UPDATES

There is still no contradiction in Tsarev's words. Yes, in July rebels were getting pretty successful in shooting more and more Ukrainian planes, which kept coming to bomb their lands, but not all the planes, just the ones which were not higher than certain altitude (MH-17 was flying too high for them to get).
And as far as I remember rebels did shoot another Ukrainian plane just before MH-17 was shot. The point is: just because rebels shot down low flying fighters does not mean they were able to shoot down an aircraft at much higher altitude such as MH-17 was flying.
BTW, if MH-17 was shot just 40 sec later, the pieces would fall down on Russian lands and that would be much stronger reason to blame Russians for that.

Stratford yes I do not have proof that seperatist shot it down, or that Russia was involved. From your op though I do know that secret witness was full of crap. As to the rest of the accusations I do not know, just a suspicion that they did. But I am just shocked that as a Ukrainian that you seem happy that pro Russian forces shot down a Ukrainian plane. I would never want my country men hurt or shot at. Yes they hold different political views but if Russia is so good for them being that close, I would think over time they would assimilate back. Sometimes patience is the better way. Instead of invading and trying to make them submitt. Just a thought. Merry Christmas!