UN-Privatize Baseball Now. PLEEEASE!!

[Votto]

Nothing new.

Connie Mack did the same thing in the teens and the thirties of the last century.

Baseball has always been about the profit line.

The only issue for the players and owners was the fair share for the players.

Fans don't count in those matters.

True, but with the advent of free agency and union pressure, the game has changed for the betterment of the players and the detriment of the fans.

Correct. And it has a power strata, with owners at the top, players in the middle, and fans at the bottom. And that gap between the owners and both the players and fans is widening as time goes by. Not good.

But this is how everything works, not just baseball. It's like our health care. Corporate America and politicians in Washington benefit the most, not us.

 

[protectionist]

So, Protectionist, stop while you are behind and enjoy the National Pastime.

Clarification, if you please ?

 

[WinterBorn]

No, YOUR post is as stupid as it is because you doin't even realized that I never said anything about "enslavement of athletes", which is something that owners are guilty of (if anybody is), an which is something I've been speaking out against, you idiot.

Really? You are the one who wants athletes to stay with one team. You take away their choice and their freedom to sell their talents to whom they choose.

The owners are not guilty of doing away with free agency. But you certainly want to.

Stop lying. I'm not wanting to "take away" anything. I don't consider free agency to ever have been a valid entity in the first place. It's something that never should have existed in the first place. It's like a wallet that a pickpocket stole, and the right ful owner chased him down, and took back his wallet. UNder your logic, you'd call that "take away".

I see valid baseball as how it was in the 50's and 60's, only with a community control basis including partial player control as part of that community. Right now they have NO CONTROL. The owners decide to trade them and away they go, whether they want to or not. That is the enslavement of athletes that you seem to favor. If my scenario were in place now, David Price would still be with the Tampa Ray Rays, and for many more years to come.

So you have claimed that the teams are not worth billions of dollars, as Forbes claims. And now you claim that free agency doesn't exist.

I guess if you can redefine everything on a whim, you should be able to put the Rays in the lead in their division. Why worry about pesky little things like facts.

And owners trading a player has been around since the early part of the 20th century.

The problem with your scenario is that you have no authority or control. It is easy to make decisions when you have no stake. Pony up a few million dollars. Lay it out there to be risked. Then you might have a little influence.

 

[JakeStarkey]

So, Protectionist, stop while you are behind and enjoy the National Pastime.

Clarification, if you please ?

Your desire to have baseball nationalized is nutty, and you are going to be told so every time you suggest it.

 

[protectionist]

True, but with the advent of free agency and union pressure, the game has changed for the betterment of the players and the detriment of the fans.

Correct. And it has a power strata, with owners at the top, players in the middle, and fans at the bottom. And that gap between the owners and both the players and fans is widening as time goes by. Not good.

But this is how everything works, not just baseball. It's like our health care. Corporate America and politicians in Washington benefit the most, not us.

And how America works is we have the freedom to object to what isn't good, and to change it for the better. This is the beauty of being American. But for many Americans, who don't even know who their Congressman and Senators are, they might as well be living in Iran or the old Soviet Union.

 

[WinterBorn]

Here's a piece of advice for you. Try to avoid use of the word "So". That might help to keep you from trying to put words in my mouth (Oh wait. That's what you meant to do right ?)

Well I guess somebody who would claim "that every business owned by stockholders is actually owned by the gov't" might indeed be "either lying or an idiot." But I've never heard anybody ever mention anything like that (EXCEPT YOU)

In other words, you admit now that the Packers are NOT owned by the gov't, and that you lied when you claimed it was what you were saying to me?

It has to be one or the other. Either you were lying when you said that is what you wanted, or you were making a fool of yourself using the "Gov't of the people and by the people" as a defense when I called you on your lie.

The Packers are not owned by the gov't. They are owned by stockholders.

I'm not interested in the Packers or (in this thread) the NFL. I'm interested in what I wrote about in the OP, MLB, and THAT topic, which you stray away from much too often.

I bet you aren't interested in it. You made yourself look even more foolish (which I am amazed you could do).

But you DID, in fact, lie. And when you demanded that I point out a single lie, I did so. Your responses were to, laughably, claim that if a business were owned by stockholders then they were owned by the gov't.

If you would care to admit you lied and that the Packers are not, as a matter of fact, owned by the gov't, I would happily drop it.

Oh, and YOU are the one who mentioned the Packers first, I believe.

 

[protectionist]

So, Protectionist, stop while you are behind and enjoy the National Pastime.

Clarification, if you please ?

Your desire to have baseball nationalized is nutty, and you are going to be told so every time you suggest it.

I am told that govt health insurance is nutty. So what ? It isn't nutty. I am told that raising taxes on the rich is nutty. It isn't. I am told that raising the minimum wage is nutty. It isn't. And this is just another example of taking power away from irresponsible billionaires and multi-millionaires, and placing it with the people where it belongs. Get it ?
Or do you not subscribe to the old adage ? > Power to the people.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yep, your idea is nutty, won't happen, won't be considered by government or the league or 99.9% of the fans.

 

[protectionist]

In other words, you admit now that the Packers are NOT owned by the gov't, and that you lied when you claimed it was what you were saying to me?

It has to be one or the other. Either you were lying when you said that is what you wanted, or you were making a fool of yourself using the "Gov't of the people and by the people" as a defense when I called you on your lie.

The Packers are not owned by the gov't. They are owned by stockholders.

I'm not interested in the Packers or (in this thread) the NFL. I'm interested in what I wrote about in the OP, MLB, and THAT topic, which you stray away from much too often.

I bet you aren't interested in it. You made yourself look even more foolish (which I am amazed you could do).

But you DID, in fact, lie. And when you demanded that I point out a single lie, I did so. Your responses were to, laughably, claim that if a business were owned by stockholders then they were owned by the gov't.

If you would care to admit you lied and that the Packers are not, as a matter of fact, owned by the gov't, I would happily drop it.

Oh, and YOU are the one who mentioned the Packers first, I believe.

If you wish to claim that someone has lied, you need to specify the words you are talking about by posting them.. and describing in detail what justifies your claim that these words are a lie.You haven't done that, and so NO, you have NOT pointed out any lie.

And I already responded to your off topic Packers comment. And if I talked about the Packers, that was probably off topic too. That doesn't justify you being off topic.

 

[WinterBorn]

Clarification, if you please ?

Your desire to have baseball nationalized is nutty, and you are going to be told so every time you suggest it.

I am told that govt health insurance is nutty. So what ? It isn't nutty. I am told that raising taxes on the rich is nutty. It isn't. I am told that raising the minimum wage is nutty. It isn't. And this is just another example of taking power away from irresponsible billionaires and multi-millionaires, and placing it with the people where it belongs. Get it ?
Or do you not subscribe to the old adage ? > Power to the people.

You were also told that the Packers were not owned by the gov't, that teams are worth billions, and that free agency is a feature in MLB.

Your responses to all the of the above points were genuinely nutty.

 

[protectionist]

Yep, your idea is nutty, won't happen, won't be considered by government or the league or 99.9% of the fans.

What is nutty is you making a reckless proclamation like that, based on nothing whatsoever. You got a source ? Got a link ? Got a basis ? Got anything ?

 

[WinterBorn]

I'm not interested in the Packers or (in this thread) the NFL. I'm interested in what I wrote about in the OP, MLB, and THAT topic, which you stray away from much too often.

I bet you aren't interested in it. You made yourself look even more foolish (which I am amazed you could do).

But you DID, in fact, lie. And when you demanded that I point out a single lie, I did so. Your responses were to, laughably, claim that if a business were owned by stockholders then they were owned by the gov't.

If you would care to admit you lied and that the Packers are not, as a matter of fact, owned by the gov't, I would happily drop it.

Oh, and YOU are the one who mentioned the Packers first, I believe.

If you wish to claim that someone has lied, you need to specify the words you are talking about by posting them.. and describing in detail what justifies your claim that these words are a lie.You haven't done that, and so NO, you have NOT pointed out any lie.

And I already responded to your off topic Packers comment. And if I talked about the Packers, that was probably off topic too. That doesn't justify you being off topic.

I did point out your lie. Someone stated that the Packers were bought by the fans. You stated that you had been telling me that was what should happen. But that was absolutely NOT what you had been saying should happen. You have been saying you want the government to steal MLB from the owners. That is not the same as fans BUYING the team from owners. The fans bought stock in the Packers.

Then, in order to try and dodge you lie, you started that "Gov't of the people, by the people" ridiculousness.

I called you a liar, and you demanded I point out your lie. I did so.

 

[protectionist]

Your desire to have baseball nationalized is nutty, and you are going to be told so every time you suggest it.

I am told that govt health insurance is nutty. So what ? It isn't nutty. I am told that raising taxes on the rich is nutty. It isn't. I am told that raising the minimum wage is nutty. It isn't. And this is just another example of taking power away from irresponsible billionaires and multi-millionaires, and placing it with the people where it belongs. Get it ?
Or do you not subscribe to the old adage ? > Power to the people.

You were also told that the Packers were not owned by the gov't, that teams are worth billions, and that free agency is a feature in MLB.

Your responses to all the of the above points were genuinely nutty.

YOU WERE TOLD that NO, teams are not worth billions (except in your nutty money-hustling culture which has no validity in proper methodology). YOU WERE ALSO TOLD that free agency also has no validity in proper methodology, and YOU WERE ALSO TOLD that being owned by the govt is equivalent (and in fact IS) being owned by the people.

Your responses to all the of the above points were genuinely nutty.

 

[protectionist]

I bet you aren't interested in it. You made yourself look even more foolish (which I am amazed you could do).

But you DID, in fact, lie. And when you demanded that I point out a single lie, I did so. Your responses were to, laughably, claim that if a business were owned by stockholders then they were owned by the gov't.

If you would care to admit you lied and that the Packers are not, as a matter of fact, owned by the gov't, I would happily drop it.

Oh, and YOU are the one who mentioned the Packers first, I believe.

If you wish to claim that someone has lied, you need to specify the words you are talking about by posting them.. and describing in detail what justifies your claim that these words are a lie.You haven't done that, and so NO, you have NOT pointed out any lie.

And I already responded to your off topic Packers comment. And if I talked about the Packers, that was probably off topic too. That doesn't justify you being off topic.

I did point out your lie. Someone stated that the Packers were bought by the fans. You stated that you had been telling me that was what should happen. But that was absolutely NOT what you had been saying should happen. You have been saying you want the government to steal MLB from the owners. That is not the same as fans BUYING the team from owners. The fans bought stock in the Packers.

Then, in order to try and dodge you lie, you started that "Gov't of the people, by the people" ridiculousness.

I called you a liar, and you demanded I point out your lie. I did so.

I call you a liar right now, for what you just said in this post, you liar. You said I "want the government to steal MLB from the owners".

That's a LIE. I never said "steal".YOU deceitfully, said that.

HERE is what I said > (quoted right out of the OP) > "For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be bought by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.."

Now lets' see if you've got the guts to stand up straight and tall like a man, and apologize. But I won't expect you to. Surprise me.

 

[WinterBorn]

I am told that govt health insurance is nutty. So what ? It isn't nutty. I am told that raising taxes on the rich is nutty. It isn't. I am told that raising the minimum wage is nutty. It isn't. And this is just another example of taking power away from irresponsible billionaires and multi-millionaires, and placing it with the people where it belongs. Get it ?
Or do you not subscribe to the old adage ? > Power to the people.

You were also told that the Packers were not owned by the gov't, that teams are worth billions, and that free agency is a feature in MLB.

Your responses to all the of the above points were genuinely nutty.

YOU WERE TOLD that NO, teams are not worth billions (except in your nutty money-hustling culture which has no validity in proper methodology). YOU WERE ALSO TOLD that free agency also has no validity in proper methodology, and YOU WERE ALSO TOLD that being owned by the govt is equivalent (and in fact IS) being owned by the people.

Your responses to all the of the above points were genuinely nutty.

LMAO!! There is no methodology in determining worth? You are obviously ignorant (whether willfully so or not) on this topic.

You WISH free agency was not valid. But the governing body of MLB, the owners, and the players agree that there is. You can claim whatever you want, but it is a part of baseball now.

Being owned by the gov't is being owned by the people. But that is not the same as being owned by stockholders. What the gov't owns is owned by every single citizen in the nation. The Packers are owned by stockholders. That means fans that did more than whine. They put up their own money to BUY the team.

So no, what you were saying was not the same as what Pogo said about "Hey, the Packers did it".

 

[WinterBorn]

If you wish to claim that someone has lied, you need to specify the words you are talking about by posting them.. and describing in detail what justifies your claim that these words are a lie.You haven't done that, and so NO, you have NOT pointed out any lie.

And I already responded to your off topic Packers comment. And if I talked about the Packers, that was probably off topic too. That doesn't justify you being off topic.

I did point out your lie. Someone stated that the Packers were bought by the fans. You stated that you had been telling me that was what should happen. But that was absolutely NOT what you had been saying should happen. You have been saying you want the government to steal MLB from the owners. That is not the same as fans BUYING the team from owners. The fans bought stock in the Packers.

Then, in order to try and dodge you lie, you started that "Gov't of the people, by the people" ridiculousness.

I called you a liar, and you demanded I point out your lie. I did so.

I call you a liar right now, for what you just said in this post, you liar. You said I "want the government to steal MLB from the owners".

That's a LIE. I never said "steal".YOU deceitfully, said that.

HERE is what I said > (quoted right out of the OP) > "For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be bought by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.."

Now lets' see if you've got the guts to stand up straight and tall like a man, and apologize. But I won't expect you to. Surprise me.

Oh please, you want to challenge me to be a man and admit that I lied, when you have spent 3 or 4 pages dancing and denying your lie?? LOL!! Your hypocrisy is amazing.

And yes, you want to STEAL the teams. You have said you wantto gov't to take them over, and not to pay what the teams are worth. And you demand that the gov't take them over whether the owners wish to or not. You demand that the gov't take something worth far more than they will be paid for it, and the owners have no choice. That is stealing.

 

[protectionist]

You were also told that the Packers were not owned by the gov't, that teams are worth billions, and that free agency is a feature in MLB.

Your responses to all the of the above points were genuinely nutty.

YOU WERE TOLD that NO, teams are not worth billions (except in your nutty money-hustling culture which has no validity in proper methodology). YOU WERE ALSO TOLD that free agency also has no validity in proper methodology, and YOU WERE ALSO TOLD that being owned by the govt is equivalent (and in fact IS) being owned by the people.
Your responses to all the of the above points were genuinely nutty.

LMAO!! There is no methodology in determining worth? You are obviously ignorant (whether willfully so or not) on this topic.
You WISH free agency was not valid. But the governing body of MLB, the owners, and the players agree that there is. You can claim whatever you want, but it is a part of baseball now.
Being owned by the gov't is being owned by the people. But that is not the same as being owned by stockholders. What the gov't owns is owned by every single citizen in the nation. The Packers are owned by stockholders. That means fans that did more than whine. They put up their own money to BUY the team.
So no, what you were saying was not the same as what Pogo said about "Hey, the Packers did it".

1. As is your usual tactic, you pretend that I said something I didn't, and then you proceed to attack me for saying that thing which I did NOT say. No, Mr. Straw Man. I did NOT say "There is no methodology in determining worth" I believe you've been going to this well many times too many now. YOU said those words, not me. In fact, By my saying that the Rays fans, through their County govts, should BUY the team, that is a clear definition that I DO conceive of some "methodology in determining worth" because the Counties woud have to have that to determine what to pay for the team. Looks like you hung yourself again.

2. As for what is a part of baseball now, that is as meaningful to me, as a carpet full of fleas, which gets treated to repair that situation.

3. As for your dopey post about the Packers, as the Rock of WWE fame would say, "IT DOESN'T MATTER" whether fans buy a team as stockholders or as citizens. The important thing is that the team be owned by the fans, so yes, what I said is about the same as what Pogo said.

Strike 1. Strike 2. Strike 3. YOU'RE OUT (AGAIN)

 

[WinterBorn]

YOU WERE TOLD that NO, teams are not worth billions (except in your nutty money-hustling culture which has no validity in proper methodology). YOU WERE ALSO TOLD that free agency also has no validity in proper methodology, and YOU WERE ALSO TOLD that being owned by the govt is equivalent (and in fact IS) being owned by the people.
Your responses to all the of the above points were genuinely nutty.

LMAO!! There is no methodology in determining worth? You are obviously ignorant (whether willfully so or not) on this topic.
You WISH free agency was not valid. But the governing body of MLB, the owners, and the players agree that there is. You can claim whatever you want, but it is a part of baseball now.
Being owned by the gov't is being owned by the people. But that is not the same as being owned by stockholders. What the gov't owns is owned by every single citizen in the nation. The Packers are owned by stockholders. That means fans that did more than whine. They put up their own money to BUY the team.
So no, what you were saying was not the same as what Pogo said about "Hey, the Packers did it".

1. As is your usual tactic, you pretend that I said something I didn't, and then you proceed to attack me for saying that thing which I did NOT say. No, Mr. Straw Man. I did NOT say "There is no methodology in determining worth" I believe you've been going to this well many times too many now. YOU said those words, not me. In fact, By my saying that the Rays fans, through their County govts, should BUY the team, that is a clear definition that I DO conceive of some "methodology in determining worth" because the Counties woud have to have that to determine what to pay for the team. Looks like you hung yourself again.

2. As for what is a part of baseball now, that is as meaningful to me, as a carpet full of fleas, which gets treated to repair that situation.

3. As for your dopey post about the Packers, as the Rock of WWE fame would say, IT DOESN'T MATTER whether fans buy a team as stockholders or as citizens. The important thing is that the team be owned by the fans, so yes, what I said is about the same as what Pogo said.

Strike 1. Strike 2. Strike 3. YOU'RE OUT (AGAIN)

No, what you have been saying is NOT the same as what Pogo said. Pogo talked about fans buying the team. That is not the same as being gov't owned.

In fact, you even said the same thing when you stated "You got 2 things wrong . 1.) I'm talking about the teams being govt owned, not "private enterprise".

So no, you were NOT saying what Pogo said.

And yes, free agency is a part of baseball. The governing body agrees it does. The owners agree it does. And the players agree it does. You denying that it is valid is completely meaningless.

 

[WinterBorn]

Protectionless, you have been crowing about the gov't taking over baseball.

In post #2, I said, “Get the fans together and put up the money to buy the team and pay the players.
Then it will belong to the fans. Until then......”

In post #115, Pogo quoted my statement about the fans buying the team and replied “Hey, the Packers did it.”

In post #118, you quoted Pogo, and stated “That's what I've been suggesting to him. Then he suggests it back to me (as in your quote), and then complains that I don't have a good idea. This is what trolling looks like.”

That was NOT what you had been suggesting for 6 or 7 pages of the thread. You lied. It is that simple.

The only real question is whether or not you are man enough to own it, or will you continue to deny and dance?

 

[protectionist]

I did point out your lie. Someone stated that the Packers were bought by the fans. You stated that you had been telling me that was what should happen. But that was absolutely NOT what you had been saying should happen. You have been saying you want the government to steal MLB from the owners. That is not the same as fans BUYING the team from owners. The fans bought stock in the Packers.

Then, in order to try and dodge you lie, you started that "Gov't of the people, by the people" ridiculousness.

I called you a liar, and you demanded I point out your lie. I did so.

I call you a liar right now, for what you just said in this post, you liar. You said I "want the government to steal MLB from the owners".


That's a LIE. I never said "steal".YOU deceitfully, said that.

HERE is what I said > (quoted right out of the OP) > "For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be bought by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.."

Now lets' see if you've got the guts to stand up straight and tall like a man, and apologize. But I won't expect you to. Surprise me.

Oh please, you want to challenge me to be a man and admit that I lied, when you have spent 3 or 4 pages dancing and denying your lie?? LOL!! Your hypocrisy is amazing.

And yes, you want to STEAL the teams. You have said you wantto gov't to take them over, and not to pay what the teams are worth. And you demand that the gov't take them over whether the owners wish to or not. You demand that the gov't take something worth far more than they will be paid for it, and the owners have no choice. That is stealing.

Just as I thought. You are too much of a wimpy, jellyfish coward to admit you were wrong.

Here's YOUR words > "Someone stated that the Packers were bought by the fans. You stated that you had been telling me that was what should happen. But that was absolutely NOT what you had been saying should happen. You have been saying you want the government to steal MLB from the owners. That is not the same as fans BUYING the team from owners."

Here's MY words (from the OP) > "For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be bought by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.."

And I didn't say I don't want to pay what the teams are worth. I do want to the Counties (as I said in the OP) to buy the teams and I would want them to pay what they are worth. But just because you grab some idiotic number from Forbes magazine as being what the team is worth, that doesn't mean I have to accept it. NO. Of course I don't accept that moronic figure. Again you're putting words in my mouth all based on your wrong conceptions of what is and what should be, which means as much to me as a rock in the bottom of a pond.

Obviously, you lied, and now you're lying to try to cover it up, because you're too much of a weakling wuss to stand up and admit that either you lied, or miscalculated and made a mistake. You're PATHETIC.