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Understanding Rebellion

Your right to revolution is inextricably tied to your willingness to abandon the Constitution,

and no manner of cloaking your abandonment in lofty rationalizations will change the fact that you have abandoned it.
 
Where were the Teabaggers screaming for limited government and citizens' rights when Bush signed the USAPATRIOT Act?

Bush was never party of the Tea Party We were against the Patriot then as we are now, Ron Paul represented our views and was one of a very few that voted against the act. I was never a fan of Bush and he did as much damage to America as obama is doing. The Tea Party seems to be our only hope of keeping a Republic we can call Free.
 
Can I see your numbers on the leftist today tracing roots back to Rousseau?? Considering that the American Revolution was not one in the same as the French revolution considering the prior political systems they replaced.
The assumption without facts to assert your claim is most illogical and weak.

Same with the Russian revolution...European monarchies that were unwilling to allow political power to be shared by the new middle class of the industrial era were just as harsh as the revolutionary govts. that replaced them..
These motivations were not always political in nature but a payback for centuries of abuse...

Man in his very nature has proven through the millennia that he has an aggressive, destructive nature about him that has spread suffering and deprivation by his very lust for power and riches, no matter the form of government...or the party affiliation.

progressive are not democratic by nature, republicans, religious, non-religious progressive movements are in the history book and have yet to be affiliated with only one party.[/QUOTE7]

i schooled starkey inthat one, russo is founding father of modern communism. Jacobians were commies. The committee on public safety were commies

maybe so, they were pissed....

Also note that the French and the Russians were kept from being anything but peasants... Monarchies used the church and the state to repress freedoms, no surprise they were singled out for retribution by victorious parties that kept them out of power.
 
Where were the Teabaggers screaming for limited government and citizens' rights when Bush signed the USAPATRIOT Act?

Bush was never party of the Tea Party We were against the Patriot then as we are now, Ron Paul represented our views and was one of a very few that voted against the act. I was never a fan of Bush and he did as much damage to America as obama is doing. The Tea Party seems to be our only hope of keeping a Republic we can call Free.

Ol' Bush was an Evangelical Baptist Republican...AKA, caring, compassionate, conservative....
 
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Your right to revolution is inextricably tied to your willingness to abandon the Constitution,

and no manner of cloaking your abandonment in lofty rationalizations will change the fact that you have abandoned it.


Well now we know why the left is filled with revolutionaries, thanks for clearing that up
 
Also note that the French and the Russians were kept from being anything but peasants... Monarchies used the church and the state to repress freedoms, no surprise they were singled out for retribution by victorious parties that kept them out of power.


You realize the French Revolution was started by middle management aristocrats, not peasants, right?

because the monarchy would not share political power like Great Britain did to avert revolution of the new, middle class....
 
Can I see your numbers on the leftist today tracing roots back to Rousseau?? Considering that the American Revolution was not one in the same as the French revolution considering the prior political systems they replaced.
The assumption without facts to assert your claim is most illogical and weak.

Same with the Russian revolution...European monarchies that were unwilling to allow political power to be shared by the new middle class of the industrial era were just as harsh as the revolutionary govts. that replaced them..
These motivations were not always political in nature but a payback for centuries of abuse...

Man in his very nature has proven through the millennia that he has an aggressive, destructive nature about him that has spread suffering and deprivation by his very lust for power and riches, no matter the form of government...or the party affiliation.

progressive are not democratic by nature, republicans, religious, non-religious progressive movements are in the history book and have yet to be affiliated with only one party.



The conservative, classical liberal (i.e., the Founders) view: individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.



1. The French Revolution, under Robespierre interpreted violence as the ‘language’ that explained to the masses the ideals of the revolution. “If the spring of popular government in times of peace is virtue, the springs of popular government in revolution are at once virtue and terror….Terror is nothing other than justice.”
Robespierre speech, February 5, 1794.


2. [Robespierre] “is the prototype of a particularly odious kind of evildoer: the ideologue who believes that reason and morality are on the side of his butcheries. Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Pol Pot are of the same mold. They are the characteristic scourges of humanity in modern times, but Robespierre has a good claim to being the first.” Why Robespierre Chose Terror by John Kekes, City Journal Spring 2006



Robespierre: We must exterminate all our enemies.
Robespierre: “The people is always worth more than individuals…The people is sublime, but individuals are weak” or expendable. http://www.nationalaffairs.com/docl...hvsthefrenchenlightmentgertrudehimmelfarb.pdf, p. 20


The names above, representing every Leftist revolution, are responsible for the slaughter of well over one million human beings.

The Liberal/Progressive/Democrat party has endorsed the very platform of the communist party, CPUSA.





3. Consider Arthur Koestler's brilliant statement:

2. In “Darkness at Noon,” published in 1940, Koestler writes about the 1938 Moscow Show Trials. This, from the novel:
“There are only two conceptions of human ethics, and they are at opposite poles. One of them is Christian and humane, declares the individual to be sacrosanct, and asserts that the rules of arithmetic are not to be applied to human units.

The other starts from the basic principle that a collective aim justifies all means, and not only allows, but demands, that the individual should in every way be subordinated and sacrificed to the community which may dispose of it as an experimentation rabbit or a sacrificial lamb.

The first conception could be called anti-vivisection morality, the second, vivisection morality. Humbugs and dilettantes have always tried to mix the two conceptions; in practice, it is impossible. Whoever is burdened with power and responsibility finds out on the first occasion that he has to choose; and he is fatally driven to the second alternative.” (p. 157)



Arthur Koestler resigned from the German Communist Party on April 22, 1938. At that point he was a non-Communist, not an anti-Communist.
a. “'The God That Failed' is a 1949 book which collects together six essays with the testimonies of a number of famous ex-communists, who were writers and journalists. The common theme of the essays is the authors' disillusionment with and abandonment of communism….The six contributors were Louis Fischer, André Gide, Arthur Koestler, Ignazio Silone, Stephen Spender, and Richard Wright.” The God that Failed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Stalin was a cult of personality, which is not new in history, why in ancient times , coins were minted or bust and reliefs were put in homes and road markers in the empire...
 
The names above, representing every Leftist revolution, are responsible for the slaughter of well over one million human beings.

The Liberal/Progressive/Democrat party has endorsed the very platform of the communist party, CPUSA.

At one time more than a million people were killed over the mere fact that you were either a Roman Catholic or a Protestant. The right and the religious hold no exception to the useless slaughter and destruction at the hands of humans...
 
Can I see your numbers on the leftist today tracing roots back to Rousseau?? Considering that the American Revolution was not one in the same as the French revolution considering the prior political systems they replaced.
The assumption without facts to assert your claim is most illogical and weak.

Same with the Russian revolution...European monarchies that were unwilling to allow political power to be shared by the new middle class of the industrial era were just as harsh as the revolutionary govts. that replaced them..
These motivations were not always political in nature but a payback for centuries of abuse...

Man in his very nature has proven through the millennia that he has an aggressive, destructive nature about him that has spread suffering and deprivation by his very lust for power and riches, no matter the form of government...or the party affiliation.

progressive are not democratic by nature, republicans, religious, non-religious progressive movements are in the history book and have yet to be affiliated with only one party.

Karl Marx - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit]
Main article: Influences on Karl Marx
Marx's thought demonstrates influences from many thinkers, including but not limited to:

Influences on Karl Marx - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jean-Jacques Rousseau[edit]

Rousseau was one of the first modern writers to seriously attack the institution of private property, and therefore is sometimes considered a forebear of modern socialism and communism, though Marx rarely mentions Rousseau in his writings. He argued that the goal of government should be to secure freedom, equality, and justice for all within the state, regardless of the will of the majority. From Jean-Jacques Rousseau came the idea of egalitarian democracy
 
Your right to revolution is inextricably tied to your willingness to abandon the Constitution,

and no manner of cloaking your abandonment in lofty rationalizations will change the fact that you have abandoned it.




Now, why would you bring up the Constitution?
Are you suggesting that said document is still the law of the land?

The idea that this nation was governed by the Constitution ended with the presidency of Emperor Franklin the First.


In 1935, the Supreme Court upheld the New Deal repudiation of gold payments in government contracts and private contracts .... Justice McReynolds declared in a dissenting opinion that "the Constitution as we have known it is gone." The Brookshire Times ? 1 March 1935 ? Page 2 - Newspapers.com
 
Communism failed only because it had flaws, those flaws were humans....
History holds testament of the failed social and political methods humans have tried since the agriculture revolution, none have proven to be everlasting and all fulfilling to those that practice existence in society..
 
Actually the first communistic form of government was the Spartan state in Greece..Over 3 thousand years ago...
 
1. Mussolini distinguished fascism from liberal capitalism in his 1928 autobiography: The citizen in the Fascist State is no longer a selfish individual who has the anti-social right of rebelling against any law of the Collectivity. The Fascist State with its corporative conception puts men and their possibilities into productive work and interprets for them the duties they have to fulfill. (p. 280)

a. Adolf Hitler, whose National Socialist (Nazi) Party adapted fascism to Germany beginning in 1933, said:
The state should retain supervision and each property owner should consider himself appointed by the state. It is his duty not to use his property against the interests of others among his own people. This is the crucial matter. The Third Reich will always retain its right to control the owners of property. (Barkai, "Nazi Economics: Ideology, Theory, and Policy," Trans. Ruth Hadass-Vashitz, pp. 26–27)






So, for the fascist, and the national socialist, individuals must give up any right to rebel against the collective.

So....once a government is in place, it is the duty of the serfs....er, citizens, to accept it.

Not only do we see this view from the French Revolution onward, but, judging from the millions slaughtered, communism is pretty serious about this view as well.






And to see the very opposite view, one need look no further than the Tea Party.

And the demands of the Tea Party, based on individual rights, according to Charles Kesler, is the problem that another iteration of the above philosophies, Liberalism, has with the Tea Party.

"Charles R. Kesler (born 1956) is professor of Government/Political Science at Claremont McKenna College and Claremont Graduate University. He has a Ph.D in Government from Harvard University, from which he received his AB degree in 1978." Charles R. Kesler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






2. " Liberal impatience with partisanship—that is, with people who oppose their plans—arises from the fact that in contemporary liberalism, there is no publicly acknowledged right of revolution.

3. That may seem like a strange thing to say, but if one looks at some of the political theorists who were most important to modern or statist liberalism—Kant and Hegel in Germany, say, or Woodrow Wilson here in the United States—they are usually quite explicit in rejecting a right of revolution.

4. In their view, a people always has in the long run the government it deserves. So there’s no right of the people to “abolish,” as the Declaration of Independence proclaims, the prevailing form of government and substitute a better one.

In particular, there is no conceivable right to overturn contemporary liberalism itself; as liberals today are so fond of saying, there is no turning back the clock. To liberals the Tea Party appears, well, bonkers, precisely because it recalls the American Revolution, and in doing so implies that it might not be such a bad thing to have another revolution—or at least a second installment of the original—in order to roll back the bad government that is damaging both the safety and happiness of the American people.





a. What is it, exactly, that the Tea Party means by limited government? Limited to what? And limited by what?

Clearly the Tea Party’s form of conservatism points back to the Constitution as the basis for restoring American government."
http://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/file/2014_01_Imprimis.pdf

There has to be a certain amount of socialism in capitalistic societies to cover the ones who can't make it on their own as well as those who refuse to make it on their own. The rub comes when supporting them becomes so attractive that others want to join them. I used to think there would always be enough really hard workers to keep a capitalist society going, but I'm not so sure these days. We have to hope that the baby boomers will not accept retirement in total, but rather continue to work some. I'm sure that many of them will be most surprised and disappointed to fin thy HAVE to work, though.
 
Communism failed only because it had flaws, those flaws were humans....
History holds testament of the failed social and political methods humans have tried since the agriculture revolution, none have proven to be everlasting and all fulfilling to those that practice existence in society..

well we have to deal with humans, but communism failed, because it sucks. Other systems have lasted way longer.
 
Actually the first communistic form of government was the Spartan state in Greece..Over 3 thousand years ago...


maybe so, but that's not really relevant to this argument. I'll take capitalism over Sparta anyday...in fact descriptions between sparta and the USSR seem very close....it seems it hasn't changed much and never will.
 
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The names above, representing every Leftist revolution, are responsible for the slaughter of well over one million human beings.

The Liberal/Progressive/Democrat party has endorsed the very platform of the communist party, CPUSA.

At one time more than a million people were killed over the mere fact that you were either a Roman Catholic or a Protestant. The right and the religious hold no exception to the useless slaughter and destruction at the hands of humans...






Why, exactly, are you attempting to bring up the above Christians?

Where do you see that provenance in the following?

First World War (1914–18): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 million
Russian Civil War (1917–22): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 million
Soviet Union, Stalin’s regime (1924–53): . . . . . . . . . 20 million
Second World War (1937–45): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 55 million
Chinese Civil War (1945–49): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.5 million
People’s Republic of China, Mao Zedong’s
regime (1949–75): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 million
Tibet (1950 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600,000
Congo Free State (1886–1908): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 million
Mexico (1910–20): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 million
Turkish massacres of Armenians (1915–23): . . . . . 1.5 million
China (1917–28): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 800,000
China, Nationalist era (1928–37): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.1 million
Korean War (1950–53): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.8 million
North Korea (1948 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 million
Rwanda and Burundi (1959–95): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.35 million
Second Indochina War (1960–75): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.5 million
Ethiopia (1962–92): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400,000
Nigeria (1966–70): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 million
Bangladesh (1971): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.25 million
Cambodia, Khmer Rouge (1975–78): . . . . . . . . . . . 1.65 million
Mozambique (1975–92): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 million
Afghanistan (1979–2001): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.8 million
Iran–Iraq War (1980–88): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 million
Sudan (1983 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.9 million
Kinshasa, Congo (1998 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.8 million
Philippines Insurgency (1899–1902): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 220,000
Brazil (1900 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 500,000
Amazonia (1900–1912): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 250,000
Portuguese colonies (1900–1925): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 325,000
French colonies (1900–1940): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200,000
Japanese War (1904–5): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 130,000
German East Africa (1905–7): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 175,000
Libya (1911–31): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 125,000
Balkan Wars (1912–13): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 140,000
Greco–Turkish War (1919–22): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 250,000
Spanish Civil War (1936–39): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 365,000
Franco Regime (1939–75): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100,000
Abyssinian Conquest (1935–41): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400,000
Finnish War (1939–40): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150,000
Greek Civil War (1943–49): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 158,000
Yugoslavia, Tito’s regime (1944–80): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200,000
First Indochina War (1945–54): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400,000
Colombia (1946–58): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200,000
India (1947): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 500,000
Romania (1948–89): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150,000
Burma/Myanmar (1948 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 130,000
Algeria (1954–62): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 537,000
Sudan (1955–72): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 500,000
Guatemala (1960–96): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200,000
Indonesia (1965–66): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400,000
Uganda, Idi Amin’s regime (1972–79): . . . . . . . . . . . . . 300,000
Vietnam, postwar Communist regime
(1975 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430,000
Angola (1975–2002): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 550,000
East Timor, conquest by Indonesia (1975–99): . . . . . 200,000
Lebanon (1975–90): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150,000
Cambodian Civil War (1978–91): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 225,000
Iraq, Saddam Hussein (1979–2003): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 300,000
Uganda (1979–86): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 300,000
Kurdistan (1980s, 1990s): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 300,000
Liberia (1989–97): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150,000
Iraq (1990– ): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 350,000
Bosnia and Herzegovina (1992–95): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 175,000
Somalia (1991 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400,000
From "The Devil's Delusion," Berlinski
 
Communism failed only because it had flaws, those flaws were humans....
History holds testament of the failed social and political methods humans have tried since the agriculture revolution, none have proven to be everlasting and all fulfilling to those that practice existence in society..



No....that isn't why it failed. It failed because capitalism works.

1. "Marxism rested on the assumption that the condition of the working classes would grow ever worse under capitalism, that there would be but two classes: one small and rich, the other vast and increasingly impoverished, and revolution would be the anodyne that would result in the “common good.”

But by the early 20th century, it was clear that this assumption was completely wrong! Under capitalism, the standard of living of all was improving: prices falling, incomes rising, health and sanitation improving, lengthening of life spans, diets becoming more varied, the new jobs created in industry paid more than most could make in agriculture, housing improved, and middle class industrialists and business owners displaced nobility and gentry as heroes."
From a speech by Rev. Robert A. Sirico, President, Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty.
Delivered at Hillsdale College, October 27, 2006



2. No matter how many they killed.....
“Culture is a stubborn opponent. The Soviet Union attempted to create the New Soviet Man with gulags, psychiatric hospitals, and firing squads for seventy years and succeeded only in producing a more corrupt culture.”
Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 198
 

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