Universal Healthcare - will not work in the US

[Rustic]

You can’t take something from one person and give to another and expect the first person to benefit from it whatsoever… It’s physically impossible

I'll tell you what? Lets make a deal. You can be exempt from carrying insurance as long as you sign a pledge. That pledge will say that if you get sick or have an accident, and you can't afford to pay the entire cost of your care, that you will not go to an ER and seek treatment at the expense of the rest of us. Rather, you will crawl under a rock and die. And make sure it is in a remote location where we don't have to smell your rotting corps.

Alternately, you can pledge that if you do receive care that you can't pay for, you will not file for bankruptcy and screw your creditors but will instead sell your home, your car , your jewelry and the shirt off your back. Fair enough??

I will add that that little crack about taking something from one person and give to another and expecting the first person to benefit from it is just more of your inane equine excrement. When people are well we all benefit. When people are sick because they cant afford care they go from being productive tax payers to being a drain on the system and we all loose.

Lol
How about let’s control costs, Doctors, hospitals and lawyers along with pharmaceutical companies make the cost of medical extraordinarily high. Start with frivolous lawsuits, Abolish them. Abolish the FDA, because It’s a rigged program. Get rid of the liability, along with fucked up regulations… The lawyers will disappear and pharmaceutical companies will become sane again. And on top of that progressives do not promote/encourage preventative nutrition/life style... Too much money to be made from pill pushing on their account.



It’s impossible to cut costs with an insurance/paying into a pool/socialism Rigged system. It invites fraudulent behavior.

I’ve never had any insurance, I pay out of pocket and it’s amazing how much better of a deal i get.
My daughters births were a fraction of what they would charge insurance companies/some type of fucked up government socialist entitlement program.
The purpose is well stated in an old Indian proverb. “If you give a man a fish, he will be hungry tomorrow. If you teach a man to fish, he will be richer forever.”

No, it does not take a village, nor does it require forcing anyone into that fucked up Village...

BTW... I have been debt-free for over 20 years, and I have never purchased insurance... lol

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

You can’t take something from one person and give to another and expect the first person to benefit from it whatsoever… It’s physically impossible

I'll tell you what? Lets make a deal. You can be exempt from carrying insurance as long as you sign a pledge. That pledge will say that if you get sick or have an accident, and you can't afford to pay the entire cost of your care, that you will not go to an ER and seek treatment at the expense of the rest of us. Rather, you will crawl under a rock and die. And make sure it is in a remote location where we don't have to smell your rotting corps.

Alternately, you can pledge that if you do receive care that you can't pay for, you will not file for bankruptcy and screw your creditors but will instead sell your home, your car , your jewelry and the shirt off your back. Fair enough??

I will add that that little crack about taking something from one person and give to another and expecting the first person to benefit from it is just more of your inane equine excrement. When people are well we all benefit. When people are sick because they cant afford care they go from being productive tax payers to being a drain on the system and we all loose.

Lol
How about let’s control costs, Doctors, hospitals and lawyers along with pharmaceutical companies make the cost of medical extraordinarily high. Start with frivolous lawsuits, Abolish them. Abolish the FDA, because It’s a rigged program. Get rid of the liability, along with fucked up regulations… The lawyers will disappear in pharmaceutical companies will become sane again. And on top of that progressives do not promote/encourage preventative nutrition/life style... Too much money to be made from pill pushing on their account.



It’s impossible to cut costs with an insurance/paying into a pool/socialism Rigged system. It invites fraudulent behavior.

I’ve never had any insurance, I pay out of pocket and it’s amazing how much better of a deal i get.
My daughters births were a fraction of what they would charge insurance companies/some type of fucked up government socialist entitlement program.
The purpose is well stated in an old Indian proverb. “If you give a man a fish, he will be hungry tomorrow. If you teach a man to fish, he will be richer forever.”

No, it does not take a village, nor does it require forcing anyone into that fucked up Village...

That’s called a free market.

 

[Rustic]

only GOP doups believe ACA is a completely finished Health system. It is only the beginning and will be tinkered with for years forever just like every other health system in the modern world is. So irritating arguing with these brainwashed functional morons. So independent god-fearing and red white and blue Americans that they are total idiots for the greedy idiot GOP rich brainwashed. And always have been. I caramba a a r r g g h h h h.....

You do Realize socialism has no appeal to millions of Americans? Lol

 

[Rustic]

only GOP doups believe ACA is a completely finished Health system. It is only the beginning and will be tinkered with for years forever just like every other health system in the modern world is..

I don't think so, franco, and I'll tell you why.

Obama passed and signed the ACA by the narrowest margin possible, on a strictly partisan roll call, using savvy parliamentary maneuvers to get it through.

If the program was going to be in need of "tinkering" , it was awfully irresponsible and short sighted to pass a major program this way as he had to know he wasn't going to have this kind of Democrat majority forever. The GOP, by being ignored totally by Obama and told to "sit in the back of the bus", doesn't have any ownership of the ACA and has zero stake in its success. After all, the program is based on the D's telling the R's to "go to perdition"

Bologna. The Democrats tried to keep the some Republicans on board but they would not work with Obama and not even to pass a republican Health plan. They are totally full of s***. Obamacare is a fine system and framework to add on to. Fix-It add on to it regulated more. More transparency on costs. Obamacare was passed with 60 votes. They only had to use reconciliation to pass a couple of irrelevant add-ons. meanwhile reconciliation allows the GOP to cut taxes on the rich and services for everyone else, which is all they care about, super duper.

Obamacare only benefits progressives, unfortunately… You clowns should’ve asked for some input from the other side.
Socialized medicine/healthcare is intolerable to the conservative. Lol

 

[Rustic]

You can’t take something from one person and give to another and expect the first person to benefit from it whatsoever… It’s physically impossible

I'll tell you what? Lets make a deal. You can be exempt from carrying insurance as long as you sign a pledge. That pledge will say that if you get sick or have an accident, and you can't afford to pay the entire cost of your care, that you will not go to an ER and seek treatment at the expense of the rest of us. Rather, you will crawl under a rock and die. And make sure it is in a remote location where we don't have to smell your rotting corps.

Alternately, you can pledge that if you do receive care that you can't pay for, you will not file for bankruptcy and screw your creditors but will instead sell your home, your car , your jewelry and the shirt off your back. Fair enough??

I will add that that little crack about taking something from one person and give to another and expecting the first person to benefit from it is just more of your inane equine excrement. When people are well we all benefit. When people are sick because they cant afford care they go from being productive tax payers to being a drain on the system and we all loose.

Lol
How about let’s control costs, Doctors, hospitals and lawyers along with pharmaceutical companies make the cost of medical extraordinarily high. Start with frivolous lawsuits, Abolish them. Abolish the FDA, because It’s a rigged program. Get rid of the liability, along with fucked up regulations… The lawyers will disappear in pharmaceutical companies will become sane again. And on top of that progressives do not promote/encourage preventative nutrition/life style... Too much money to be made from pill pushing on their account.



It’s impossible to cut costs with an insurance/paying into a pool/socialism Rigged system. It invites fraudulent behavior.

I’ve never had any insurance, I pay out of pocket and it’s amazing how much better of a deal i get.
My daughters births were a fraction of what they would charge insurance companies/some type of fucked up government socialist entitlement program.
The purpose is well stated in an old Indian proverb. “If you give a man a fish, he will be hungry tomorrow. If you teach a man to fish, he will be richer forever.”

No, it does not take a village, nor does it require forcing anyone into that fucked up Village...

That’s called a free market.

Yep,
In which socialism is directly opposed to...

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

You can’t take something from one person and give to another and expect the first person to benefit from it whatsoever… It’s physically impossible

I'll tell you what? Lets make a deal. You can be exempt from carrying insurance as long as you sign a pledge. That pledge will say that if you get sick or have an accident, and you can't afford to pay the entire cost of your care, that you will not go to an ER and seek treatment at the expense of the rest of us. Rather, you will crawl under a rock and die. And make sure it is in a remote location where we don't have to smell your rotting corps.

Alternately, you can pledge that if you do receive care that you can't pay for, you will not file for bankruptcy and screw your creditors but will instead sell your home, your car , your jewelry and the shirt off your back. Fair enough??

I will add that that little crack about taking something from one person and give to another and expecting the first person to benefit from it is just more of your inane equine excrement. When people are well we all benefit. When people are sick because they cant afford care they go from being productive tax payers to being a drain on the system and we all loose.

Lol
How about let’s control costs, Doctors, hospitals and lawyers along with pharmaceutical companies make the cost of medical extraordinarily high. Start with frivolous lawsuits, Abolish them. Abolish the FDA, because It’s a rigged program. Get rid of the liability, along with fucked up regulations… The lawyers will disappear in pharmaceutical companies will become sane again. And on top of that progressives do not promote/encourage preventative nutrition/life style... Too much money to be made from pill pushing on their account.



It’s impossible to cut costs with an insurance/paying into a pool/socialism Rigged system. It invites fraudulent behavior.

I’ve never had any insurance, I pay out of pocket and it’s amazing how much better of a deal i get.
My daughters births were a fraction of what they would charge insurance companies/some type of fucked up government socialist entitlement program.
The purpose is well stated in an old Indian proverb. “If you give a man a fish, he will be hungry tomorrow. If you teach a man to fish, he will be richer forever.”

No, it does not take a village, nor does it require forcing anyone into that fucked up Village...

BTW... I have been debt-free for over 20 years, and I have never purchased insurance... lol

 

[MAGAman]

1. Too many people are ingrained with private insurance.
2. Education is not free. Becoming a doctor is expensive, they want to get paid and pay off potential student loans. Working for the Gov't does not do that.
3. Private pay provides better care. Even in Europe, the wealthy go that route.
4. Most logical people (on both sides of the aisle) agree with #1 and #2 and #3.

Candidates Who Attacked Warren Over 'Medicare For All' Draw Massive Fundraising Boost

It doesn't work anywhere as well as freedom.

 

[Rustic]

It happens all the time. I see it here on the board regularly. Pick any one of the following.

1. The employer only pays for employee coverage. The employee does not elect to cover his wife because she is healthy (until the heart attack)
2. Same thing, but the employee does not cover the wife because she had her own coverage with her employer (until she had her heart attack, and lost her job)
3. The employee just married the wife, and for reasons on his own, did not enroll her during the "open enrollment period" during which 30 day period, she would have been guaranteed issue.
4. The wife was employed and had coverage, but with a lifetime maximum of $1,000,000, so she felt that she did not need secondary coverage, but found out that a heart transplant runs around $1,500,000, or even $3,000,000 if it is a heart, lung transplant.

I could list other reasons. The real issue is that at annual renewal, I am going to raise the premium for the company to a level that they can not afford, so that Mel will cancel our coverage, if wife transplant patient is still eligible. At this point, Mel and all of his employees and dependents are SOL, because small employers are required to have health statements for all applicants. There is a company named Medical Information Bureau that collects health information on anyone in the US. Every time you fill out a health questionnaire, you agree to the fine print that all information may be shared with M.I.B. Insures use this information to see if applicants lied on their health statements. If they did, the insurer rescinds coverage and returns premiums. This is health care in America.

I agree the system is broken but insurance is a critical component. You would not drive without car insurance why would you live without health insurance? Doesn’t make sense.

I know that, and you know that, but a lot of people, especially the young (who think that they are immortal) do not know that, until they have a pre-existing condition, at which point, it is too late. Universal Health insurance on the Medicare model bypasses all that. everyone pays their fair share and everyone is covered. In the meantime, employers no longer have to bear the burden of paying for it, which makes Ford more competitive with Hyundai.

Auto insurance is Mandatory for the young too. So should health insurance be.

What the hell are we arguing about? LOL

if we're going to have mandatory health insurance, we might as well go Medicare for all and cut the costs....

Why don’t you keep that shit to yourselves? It does not require our participation, You can’t expect to force people into shit they want nothing to do with it and expect them not to punch back. Lol

 

[Rustic]

I am all for being proactive vs reactive but if you’re a poor driver you pay more for insurance. I dont like exercising and going to the gym but I do because I know how important that is. I should pay less than some lazy fat ass. It works for life insurance why not for health insurance? If you got diabetes as a kid then it sucks and we should treat you but if you got it as an adult due to poor lifestyle choices then it’s on you.

Driving is a lot more black and white. It's easy to pin point an at-fault accident. It isn't so easy to pin point the cause of obesity. People can choose not to drive.

People can't choose not to get sick and when they do - they need and imo have a right to, medical care.

People may choose how they eat and exercise.

So as long as you take good care of yourself you're assured of not getting sick?

You’re less likely correct. No one ever said assured. Are you trying to pick a fight?

There are already perks for not smoking and not being fat and you can add more if you like. First they should also have a doctor who can tell them what the hell is going on and plenty of people do need it.

Progressives never promote preventative nutrition/lifestyle, Like Obama says just give them a pill. Lol

 

[Rustic]

I know that, and you know that, but a lot of people, especially the young (who think that they are immortal) do not know that, until they have a pre-existing condition, at which point, it is too late. Universal Health insurance on the Medicare model bypasses all that. everyone pays their fair share and everyone is covered. In the meantime, employers no longer have to bear the burden of paying for it, which makes Ford more competitive with Hyundai.

Auto insurance is Mandatory for the young too. So should health insurance be.

What the hell are we arguing about? LOL

if we're going to have mandatory health insurance, we might as well go Medicare for all and cut the costs....

So you want to push 150mil people off their plans that they like? How about people may keep their plan and those who want to may go to the public option?

I have said that many times in the last couple of days, mandates lose elections and make things unpopular. I also said Obama was not for a mandate originally and was for a public option. That would have worked. As usual Congress screwed it up LOL but not as bad as the Republican Congresses do! Even as passed it was a great start, and then we had seven and a half years pure GOP obstruction. It can easily be fixed. I and Obama do not mind the mandate being repealed. People just hate that LOL.

Lol
But yet you still want to force everyone into your fucked up socialist entitlement programs… You’re a fucking hypocrite

 

[Rustic]

You can’t take something from one person and give to another and expect the first person to benefit from it whatsoever… It’s physically impossible

I'll tell you what? Lets make a deal. You can be exempt from carrying insurance as long as you sign a pledge. That pledge will say that if you get sick or have an accident, and you can't afford to pay the entire cost of your care, that you will not go to an ER and seek treatment at the expense of the rest of us. Rather, you will crawl under a rock and die. And make sure it is in a remote location where we don't have to smell your rotting corps.

Alternately, you can pledge that if you do receive care that you can't pay for, you will not file for bankruptcy and screw your creditors but will instead sell your home, your car , your jewelry and the shirt off your back. Fair enough??

I will add that that little crack about taking something from one person and give to another and expecting the first person to benefit from it is just more of your inane equine excrement. When people are well we all benefit. When people are sick because they cant afford care they go from being productive tax payers to being a drain on the system and we all loose.

Lol
How about let’s control costs, Doctors, hospitals and lawyers along with pharmaceutical companies make the cost of medical extraordinarily high. Start with frivolous lawsuits, Abolish them. Abolish the FDA, because It’s a rigged program. Get rid of the liability, along with fucked up regulations… The lawyers will disappear in pharmaceutical companies will become sane again. And on top of that progressives do not promote/encourage preventative nutrition/life style... Too much money to be made from pill pushing on their account.



It’s impossible to cut costs with an insurance/paying into a pool/socialism Rigged system. It invites fraudulent behavior.

I’ve never had any insurance, I pay out of pocket and it’s amazing how much better of a deal i get.
My daughters births were a fraction of what they would charge insurance companies/some type of fucked up government socialist entitlement program.
The purpose is well stated in an old Indian proverb. “If you give a man a fish, he will be hungry tomorrow. If you teach a man to fish, he will be richer forever.”

No, it does not take a village, nor does it require forcing anyone into that fucked up Village...

BTW... I have been debt-free for over 20 years, and I have never purchased insurance... lol

Nice deflection...

Typical progressive can’t handle anyone disagreeing with them… What is the meaning of a progressive?… Progressively worse. Lol

 

[Rustic]

What the hell are we arguing about? LOL

if we're going to have mandatory health insurance, we might as well go Medicare for all and cut the costs....

So you want to push 150mil people off their plans that they like? How about people may keep their plan and those who want to may go to the public option?

I have said that many times in the last couple of days, mandates lose elections and make things unpopular. I also said Obama was not for a mandate originally and was for a public option. That would have worked. As usual Congress screwed it up LOL but not as bad as the Republican Congresses do! Even as passed it was a great start, and then we had seven and a half years pure GOP obstruction. It can easily be fixed. I and Obama do not mind the mandate being repealed. People just hate that LOL.

Just make the mandate cheaper. $50 a month and only covers catastrophic events.

75% of people on the exchanges pay less than $100 a month. It all depends on your income. With the subsidies. Obama Care is mainly catastrophic Health Care already. That was the way it was going anyway. We have to go after Hospital costs and insurer costs.it will be tinkered with forever. It is ridiculous that we haven't fixed it Yeah. Although repealing the mandate was a good idea. The magic negro always wanted that, no mandate.

It depends on the state, Some states only have one or a few options.
With things like $600 monthly premiums and five and $6000 deductible’s… That’s Obama care for you. Lol

 

[Rustic]

I know that, and you know that, but a lot of people, especially the young (who think that they are immortal) do not know that, until they have a pre-existing condition, at which point, it is too late. Universal Health insurance on the Medicare model bypasses all that. everyone pays their fair share and everyone is covered. In the meantime, employers no longer have to bear the burden of paying for it, which makes Ford more competitive with Hyundai.

Auto insurance is Mandatory for the young too. So should health insurance be.

What the hell are we arguing about? LOL

if we're going to have mandatory health insurance, we might as well go Medicare for all and cut the costs....

So you want to push 150mil people off their plans that they like? How about people may keep their plan and those who want to may go to the public option?

That's my thought as well - we need a public OPTION to be available, not a public ONLY mandate. I think everyone should be able to have affordable insurance. That would be the goal.

We need to 100% free market of choice, no federal government involvement whatsoever unless someone chooses that route. That’s the key..... choice

 

[Rustic]

if we're going to have mandatory health insurance, we might as well go Medicare for all and cut the costs....

So you want to push 150mil people off their plans that they like? How about people may keep their plan and those who want to may go to the public option?

I have said that many times in the last couple of days, mandates lose elections and make things unpopular. I also said Obama was not for a mandate originally and was for a public option. That would have worked. As usual Congress screwed it up LOL but not as bad as the Republican Congresses do! Even as passed it was a great start, and then we had seven and a half years pure GOP obstruction. It can easily be fixed. I and Obama do not mind the mandate being repealed. People just hate that LOL.

Just make the mandate cheaper. $50 a month and only covers catastrophic events.

75% of people on the exchanges pay less than $100 a month. It all depends on your income. With the subsidies. Obama Care is mainly catastrophic Health Care already. That was the way it was going anyway. We have to go after Hospital costs and insurer costs.it will be tinkered with forever. It is ridiculous that we haven't fixed it Yeah. Although repealing the mandate was a good idea. The magic negro always wanted that, no mandate.

The system is a F@cking disaster. We need to ban lobbyists.

...and frivolous lawsuits

 

[2aguy]

1. Too many people are ingrained with private insurance.
2. Education is not free. Becoming a doctor is expensive, they want to get paid and pay off potential student loans. Working for the Gov't does not do that.
3. Private pay provides better care. Even in Europe, the wealthy go that route.
4. Most logical people (on both sides of the aisle) agree with #1 and #2 and #3.

Candidates Who Attacked Warren Over 'Medicare For All' Draw Massive Fundraising Boost

It doesn't work anywhere else either....the only way the social welfare states can manage right now, as their costs sky rocket and the quality of care declines at an ever faster rate.....is the United States is protecting them with our military and Americans are funding almost all medical innovation and medicinal drug creation....without the U.S. to protect them, they would have to pay for their own militaries to actually work.......and without the U.S medical and drug innovation and creation, they would still be using leaches and draining blood from sick people........

 

[Rustic]

1. Too many people are ingrained with private insurance.
2. Education is not free. Becoming a doctor is expensive, they want to get paid and pay off potential student loans. Working for the Gov't does not do that.
3. Private pay provides better care. Even in Europe, the wealthy go that route.
4. Most logical people (on both sides of the aisle) agree with #1 and #2 and #3.

Candidates Who Attacked Warren Over 'Medicare For All' Draw Massive Fundraising Boost

Our system sucks and repubs have nothing to offer. We will likely get universal healthcare eventually. Other countries have shown it can be much cheaper.

Did other countries have ingrained private health plans? No. I don't see it happening until education costs go down significantly.

Yes the insurance industry loves to rob us, Our system is not good, something will change and repubs offer nothing.

/——/ How about Tort Reform?

Torte reform won't do jack shit for health care costs. The problem is a "for profit" health care model. Healthy people aren't profitable.

Keep the federal government out of this personal lives that’s what cuts costs. Paying into a pool will never cut costs... it Invites fraudulent behavior 100% of the time. Fact

 

[JoeB131]

Here is the thing. I have Always had American doctors. Jews, actually. The ones you want to kill. Here is another thing, over 150mil are on private pay through their jobs, correct.

Okay... so you don't have a logical answer...

150 million have private pay that someone else is paying for and they could lose if they got, let's say... too sick to work.

I'm not sure how that's a good system. We'll cover you only as long as you are useful to us?

 

[Rustic]

So you want to push 150mil people off their plans that they like? How about people may keep their plan and those who want to may go to the public option?

I have said that many times in the last couple of days, mandates lose elections and make things unpopular. I also said Obama was not for a mandate originally and was for a public option. That would have worked. As usual Congress screwed it up LOL but not as bad as the Republican Congresses do! Even as passed it was a great start, and then we had seven and a half years pure GOP obstruction. It can easily be fixed. I and Obama do not mind the mandate being repealed. People just hate that LOL.

Just make the mandate cheaper. $50 a month and only covers catastrophic events.

75% of people on the exchanges pay less than $100 a month. It all depends on your income. With the subsidies. Obama Care is mainly catastrophic Health Care already. That was the way it was going anyway. We have to go after Hospital costs and insurer costs.it will be tinkered with forever. It is ridiculous that we haven't fixed it Yeah. Although repealing the mandate was a good idea. The magic negro always wanted that, no mandate.

The system is a F@cking disaster. We need to ban lobbyists.

Then vote democratic. The GOP is the swamp.

Throw all career politicians out on their ass, Make single term limits. Because fucking morons like yourself don’t know the difference between their ass and a hole in the ground. Lol

 

[JoeB131]

It doesn't work anywhere as well as freedom.

I'm not feeling terribly free if I feel I have to stay at a job I hate in order to keep from dying...

 

[Rustic]

Torte reform won't do jack shit for health care costs. The problem is a "for profit" health care model. Healthy people aren't profitable.

Is your contention that American doctors perform operations and other expensive medical treatments because of the money and not whether the people need it?

That's what B. Hussein O says, you know.

Obama Missteps on Foot Amputation Pay to Surgeons | HealthLeaders Media

It is my contention that the American medical establishment has little to no interest in preventative medicine. They make much more money off seriously ill people than they do on preventative medicine.

Big Pharma deliberately sold millions of opiod drugs, knowing how addictive they were. The rehab industry developed 28 day rehab programs, not because that's the most effective term for rehab, but because that's how long American insurance pays for. They have a overdose antidote, which they can manufacture for $40 per dose. They packaged it up in a fancy Epipen style delivery system and sell it for $4000 a dose.

Speaking of EpiPens, we pay $70 for one of these in Canada. Americans pay $400.

The USA, which is the only free market medical system in the first world, has the highest costs per patient in the world. In part, that's because American doctors sell their services to anyone in the world, at any price those patients are prepared to pay. Americans are quick to point out how people come from all over the world to the USA for treatment. Change that to "rich people".

Doctors in other countries, whose education was paid for and/or subsidized by the government of their home countries, are not allowed to treat people from outside their own country, because there are waiting lists for patients in every country. Our tax dollars built our hospitals, and as long as any Canadian is waiting for treatment, hospitals cannot advertise or sell their services to non-residents. Although, if we issue you a visa to come to Canada, you'll get our government funded health care until you leave, and you won't be billed for it. Some of my American friends who studied in Canada, said the hardest thing about going back home was having to turn in their OHIP cards.

The USA is only first world nation where life expectancy has declined for the past three years running. You have the highest rate of maternal dealth rate in the first world, and the highest rate of infant mortality in the first world. If your health care system was all that and a bag of peanuts, women and children would be getting better care.

Lol
Obama said just give them a pill, That is socialized medicine/healthcare... You silly little fucker.