Universal Healthcare - will not work in the US

[Markle]

Barbie, if we all had to negotiate for insurance individually, none of us could afford insurance. The young and healthy wouldn't buy it because they felt they didn't need it, and the old and sickly couldn't afford it because the premiums would be more money than they could make.

No one is advocating getting rid of employer-provided health insurance...except for Democrats. We can all afford insurance on our cars and we negotiate those prices ourselves.

The Car Insurance analogy is silly. Every last one of us is going to get sick and die at some point. In fact, most health care spending is "End of Life" spending. The vast majority of us don't get into serious accidents in our cars. The kind where you have to replace the whole vehicle.

You say the car insurance analogy is silly. You say that only because it shatters all you foolish "needs" for our health insurance.

No, the majority of us don't get into serious accidents but we do have claims for stolen and vandalized cars.

We need to allow the young and healthy to buy only catastrophic coverage without all the dozens of mandates required by the government.

Insurance is insurance. It is all based on actuarial tables. What are the chances of a claim and how much will that claim cost the company?

Medicare is deeply in the hole and there are far-left whackos who think we should expand that to everyone, stealing what the majority of citizens want to keep their own insurance.

 

[Markle]

Final point- the only reason why the Car Insurance system works as well as it does is because most states MANDATE that you buy at least liability insurance. If you are paying for your car on a financial plan, the banks will INSIST you get replacement insurance for that vehicle if it is totaled. IN short, the concept of "just buy what you need" doesn't work for something like cars, it certainly won't work for health care.

It is a decision to own a car. If I don't own a car, I don't buy auto liability insurance.

Yes, if someone makes a DECISION to buy a car and finance it over six or eight years, yes, you have to have insurance to cover any losses. Just as you need if you finance your house.

The last car I financed was a new, 1981 Buick Century. Every car and motorcycle since then I have paid cash. Depending on how long I held the car/motorcycle, I calculated if I wanted or did not want collision, theft and comprehensive coverage. It is all personal decisions.

As you know, buying what you WANT, works.

 

[Markle]

I had no problem opening it... and the best you could come up with were the Koch-Suckers at the Heritage Foundation.

Tort reform didn't work in Texas... that's the point. It just made it easier for the doctors to get away with malpractice.

I provided solid facts disproving your source. Here, you furnish nothing disproving my facts...again.

You are lying about tort reform not working in Texas, as you know, and doctors do NOT "get away" with malpractice.

 

[Markle]

again, we realize you are a racist cocksucker who thinks that a system where poor people of color die sooner is okay. I mean, you don't need to remind us you are an awful human being... We've figured that out.

Your continued desperation is duly noted. Does your childish language make you feel special?

Which countries, with substantial black populations, have a life expectancy longer than whites? It isn't the healthcare available, it is their GENES and their culture.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Great question. Number one the illegals come here legally and number two we need to raise the retirement age and how much working people contribute. Trusting the govt is a terrible idea. Same degrees? Harvard and Yale degrees aren’t the same as Arizona State and I would want an MD from an elite school if my life is on the line or more importantly my kids.

Most working-age people contribute, this includes illegals. Coming to the US legally is fine. The truth is that doing so is not easy because of strict quota which as I said aren't high enough to replace retirees. You can and should raise the retirement age but working literally to your death doesn't seem desirable either.

As for the second bit. The truth is that for most medical procedures you don't need the top 1 percentile of doctors in the world. You need someone competent. I will not argue that for something very unusual you have a better chance with the very best, I won't even argue that Ivy league schools have a higher percentage of those. But what you are saying is that you are willing to pay 50 percent more of your income compared to mine on healthcare and leave a substantial portion of your populace uninsured on the of chance you or your loved ones get hit with a rare medical condition. This seems a bad tradeoff.

I will throw out a radical idea. Maybe it is a good idea to not make doctors pay student loans for a significant portion of their careers so they can focus on providing the best care possible? I will illustrate this with something that is highly anecdotal but relevant nonetheless. My wife had a gastric bypass 2 years ago. From the time she had her first doctor's appointment until her surgery date less then 4 months passed. She had one full day of tests in between. The cost out of pocket would have been around 5k if I didn't have supplemental insurance. Her friend in the US had a very similar surgery, it took her dozens of doctor's visits, 1.5 years and well over 15k to do the same. Now the time it took you could nock of on it being anecdotal but if a surgeon here is confident to perform the surgery after one day of tests, I fail to see why so many doctors visits are required in the US for any other reason then the need to make it as expensive as possible.

I live in Boston where we have the best hospitals in the world I would argue. My parents are older and retired but refuse to move because of the great doctors and hospitals we have. That is not so in other states. I am Ok with revamping our broken healthcare system. I think it sucks but until we fix the high cost of becoming a doctor we cannot move to UH. Additionally look at LASIK and cosmetic surgery, neither is covered by insurance but the costs have gone way down because more MDs entered the marketplace and naturally costs for procedures diminished. I do not believe our Govt is very good at managing entitlements why would I trust them with healthcare. And people are living longer so they would not work til their death. Raise the retirement age to 70 for all those under 40 and to 72 for all those under 30.

I'm going to bed, had a tough week. It's been nice talking to you today and hope we can continue. I'll leave you with this. You don't trust the government? I get it you are a conservative. I can only speak for my country but it seems to me that the healthcare system I live under is superior in terms of availability, efficiency and yes quality, it is government-run or nearly so. Can I suggest that you look past the prejudices in this instance and look at objective results? I'm not a Commie, idealist or snowflake, I consider myself a pragmatist. To me, some things are not meant to be for-profit, health is one of those. I don't think the government is a fix-all but you can't argue with results IMO.

I am an Independent. I do not trust the Govt to do anything well. Unfortunately. I wish it were different. If healthcare is not supposed to be for profit then why is the cost to become a doctor so high?

It isn't in my country where colleges are... government-run. Costs of Studying and Living in Belgium - MastersPortal.com
Isn't that kind of the point?

I do not follow? What?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I live in MA and to me it’s stupid to force the healthy to buy something they are unlikely to use to pay for the sick. I am not a Republican or a Romney fan. I think it should be mostly private pay with catastrophic insurance available like car insurance is now. Should not go through your employer and should not be nationalized. We are all entitled to our opinions, even you. No opinion is stupid but the person who provides it could be, such as you.

Barbie, if we all had to negotiate for insurance individually, none of us could afford insurance. The young and healthy wouldn't buy it because they felt they didn't need it, and the old and sickly couldn't afford it because the premiums would be more money than they could make.

Employer -based health insurance evolved through wage controls imposed during WWII (When we had a labor shortage and companies were poaching each others workers). After the War, all the countries that didn't have National Health Insurance instituted it except for ours...

The Car Insurance analogy is silly. Every last one of us is going to get sick and die at some point. In fact, most health care spending is "End of Life" spending. The vast majority of us don't get into serious accidents in our cars. The kind where you have to replace the whole vehicle.

Final point- the only reason why the Car Insurance system works as well as it does is because most states MANDATE that you buy at least liability insurance. If you are paying for your car on a financial plan, the banks will INSIST you get replacement insurance for that vehicle if it is totaled. IN short, the concept of "just buy what you need" doesn't work for something like cars, it certainly won't work for health care.

What we have now is broken. I followed Your logic until the last sentence. BTW, stop fucking hitting on me. I am not gay. Weirdo.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

And? In Belgium people do have the private option and that country is tiny. Explain why we cannot treat health insurance like we do auto insurance? Why must it be tied to our employers?

Hooo-boy.

Okay. Here's why we can't treat health insurance like car insurance.

First, the only reason why the Auto insurance system works is because it's not voluntary. If you drive a car, you are required to not only have insurance, but you are required to have insurance that covers you in case the other guy isn't. If you still owe money on the car, you are required to insure that car for its replacement value. Furthermore, the car insurance companies can raise your rates if you have accidents. I just had my first accident in 15 years, I expect my insurance rate to go up, even though the damage to both vehicles was minor.

If we ran health insurance like that, we'd mandate that not only would you be forced to buy insurance, but you would be charged more for that insurance every time you went into the doctor for a cold.

Second, health care is preventative.... you stay healthy by having regular physicals, vaccinations, lifestyle advice. In short, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. But if you treated health insurance like Car insurance, you'd be penalized for checkups, so you'd be less likely to do them.

Finally, there's frequency. There are 6 million car accidents a year... out of 272 million motor vehicles. roughly 2% of cars are involved in an accident each year.

Out of 300 million Americans, there were 880 million hospital visits. In short, every American is going to a hospital or doctors office 3 times a year on average. Of course, if you are healthy you don't go as often, if you are sickly you go more often.

My point was that auto insurance has zero to do with my employer why not make health insurance the same. Give people options. I have been paying in for 17 yrs now and have hardly used it. Others use it all the time because they are fat and didn’t take care of themselves. I do Not want to pay for them. With auto insurance, bad drivers pay more and good drivers pay less. Same with life insurance. Healthier people pay less. My wife pays the same as some fat unhealthy person through her job. That’s just stupid. UH will not work in the US until we get illegals and the high cost of becoming a doctor under control.

 

[forkup]

Most working-age people contribute, this includes illegals. Coming to the US legally is fine. The truth is that doing so is not easy because of strict quota which as I said aren't high enough to replace retirees. You can and should raise the retirement age but working literally to your death doesn't seem desirable either.

As for the second bit. The truth is that for most medical procedures you don't need the top 1 percentile of doctors in the world. You need someone competent. I will not argue that for something very unusual you have a better chance with the very best, I won't even argue that Ivy league schools have a higher percentage of those. But what you are saying is that you are willing to pay 50 percent more of your income compared to mine on healthcare and leave a substantial portion of your populace uninsured on the of chance you or your loved ones get hit with a rare medical condition. This seems a bad tradeoff.

I will throw out a radical idea. Maybe it is a good idea to not make doctors pay student loans for a significant portion of their careers so they can focus on providing the best care possible? I will illustrate this with something that is highly anecdotal but relevant nonetheless. My wife had a gastric bypass 2 years ago. From the time she had her first doctor's appointment until her surgery date less then 4 months passed. She had one full day of tests in between. The cost out of pocket would have been around 5k if I didn't have supplemental insurance. Her friend in the US had a very similar surgery, it took her dozens of doctor's visits, 1.5 years and well over 15k to do the same. Now the time it took you could nock of on it being anecdotal but if a surgeon here is confident to perform the surgery after one day of tests, I fail to see why so many doctors visits are required in the US for any other reason then the need to make it as expensive as possible.

I live in Boston where we have the best hospitals in the world I would argue. My parents are older and retired but refuse to move because of the great doctors and hospitals we have. That is not so in other states. I am Ok with revamping our broken healthcare system. I think it sucks but until we fix the high cost of becoming a doctor we cannot move to UH. Additionally look at LASIK and cosmetic surgery, neither is covered by insurance but the costs have gone way down because more MDs entered the marketplace and naturally costs for procedures diminished. I do not believe our Govt is very good at managing entitlements why would I trust them with healthcare. And people are living longer so they would not work til their death. Raise the retirement age to 70 for all those under 40 and to 72 for all those under 30.

I'm going to bed, had a tough week. It's been nice talking to you today and hope we can continue. I'll leave you with this. You don't trust the government? I get it you are a conservative. I can only speak for my country but it seems to me that the healthcare system I live under is superior in terms of availability, efficiency and yes quality, it is government-run or nearly so. Can I suggest that you look past the prejudices in this instance and look at objective results? I'm not a Commie, idealist or snowflake, I consider myself a pragmatist. To me, some things are not meant to be for-profit, health is one of those. I don't think the government is a fix-all but you can't argue with results IMO.

I am an Independent. I do not trust the Govt to do anything well. Unfortunately. I wish it were different. If healthcare is not supposed to be for profit then why is the cost to become a doctor so high?

It isn't in my country where colleges are... government-run. Costs of Studying and Living in Belgium - MastersPortal.com
Isn't that kind of the point?

I do not follow? What?

If I assert that healthcare shouldn't be for profit. And you come back by stating that that's not true because it's very expensive to become a doctor. If I can show that becoming a doctor here is doable for about the same price as a single semester in a mid-tier college would set you back in the US, your argument is kind of hard to sustain isn't it?

 

[jasonnfree]

Universal healthcare in the US won't work because it would end up being universal healthcare for the world. Our immigration system has been undermined by Democrats and adding universal healthcare to our already inflated government spending is not only unaffordable, not even for just one year, but it will only serve to encourage more illegal immigration. We need to cut spending soon or this ship is going to sink. So maybe it's time for Democrats to come up with a real platform instead of trying to buy votes with crazy promises.

I don't think just democrats are to blame for illegals coming here. Reagan allowed millions of them to become legal. Bush jr. was in love with Vincent Fox and welcomed hispanics here, legal or other wise. Trump hires illegals and refuses to jail employers like himself for hiring illegals.

 

[JoeB131]

No one is advocating getting rid of employer-provided health insurance...except for Democrats. We can all afford insurance on our cars and we negotiate those prices ourselves.

Quite the contrary... some people can only afford liability insurance. They total their car, they are shit out of luck.

We need to allow the young and healthy to buy only catastrophic coverage without all the dozens of mandates required by the government.

How does that help?

No, the majority of us don't get into serious accidents but we do have claims for stolen and vandalized cars.

Those events are even rarer than accidents...

Your continued desperation is duly noted. Does your childish language make you feel special?

Which countries, with substantial black populations, have a life expectancy longer than whites? It isn't the healthcare available, it is their GENES and their culture.

Yes, 500 years of imperialism and racism had nothing to do with it. I'm happy you've found some Uncle Toms to validate your racism, but you are still racist.

provided solid facts disproving your source. Here, you furnish nothing disproving my facts...again.

You are lying about tort reform not working in Texas, as you know, and doctors do NOT "get away" with malpractice.

Actually, they do. 96,000 Americans die every year due to medical mistakes...

Tort Reform didn't do what it's advocates promised. Health costs did not go down.

 

[JoeB131]

My point was that auto insurance has zero to do with my employer why not make health insurance the same. Give people options. I have been paying in for 17 yrs now and have hardly used it. Others use it all the time because they are fat and didn’t take care of themselves. I do Not want to pay for them. With auto insurance, bad drivers pay more and good drivers pay less. Same with life insurance. Healthier people pay less. My wife pays the same as some fat unhealthy person through her job. That’s just stupid. UH will not work in the US until we get illegals and the high cost of becoming a doctor under control.

Oh, Barbie, it's so fun to watch you repeat the racist lies... Somewhere in Hell, Dr. Goebbels is having a good laugh.

UH would work just fine in the US because it works just fine in every other industrialized nation.

What we have now is broken. I followed Your logic until the last sentence. BTW, stop fucking hitting on me. I am not gay. Weirdo.

It's been established most hard core homophobes are latent homosexuals, but let's stay on target here.

If we had to all negotiate for our insurance individually, the system would collapse in a week. The young wouldn't buy it, the old couldn't afford it...

 

[JoeB131]

It is a decision to own a car. If I don't own a car, I don't buy auto liability insurance.

Yes, if someone makes a DECISION to buy a car and finance it over six or eight years, yes, you have to have insurance to cover any losses. Just as you need if you finance your house.

The last car I financed was a new, 1981 Buick Century. Every car and motorcycle since then I have paid cash. Depending on how long I held the car/motorcycle, I calculated if I wanted or did not want collision, theft and comprehensive coverage. It is all personal decisions.

As you know, buying what you WANT, works.

Again, that's awesome and stuff... but it doesn't address the problem.

I'm 57. Every year, I've paid for insurnace, except before 1992, when I was under the Army's plan. So for most of those 27 years, I paid in a lot more than I took out.

The one year I didn't, when I had run up about $40,000 of medical bills in one year, I had to fight Cigna tooth and nail to get them to pay what they promised. (It's why a fair medical reform plan would involve harvesting insurance executives for transplant organs! Seems only fair.)

The ironic thing, if the Right Wing and Big insurance hadn't sabotaged Hillarycare back in the 1990's, we'd have had a solution. People who really like their employer plans could keep them, people who didn't have a plan got on HC and the companies that didn't provide insurance would pay a tax to finance it. Problem solved.

Big insurance didn't like that, and fought it tooth and nail. They did like Romney-Care .... err Obama Care, until they found out they couldn't cheat everyone who walked in the door.

 

[Markle]

Yes, 500 years of imperialism and racism had nothing to do with it. I'm happy you've found some Uncle Toms to validate your racism, but you are still racist.

Get back to us when you grow up.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I live in Boston where we have the best hospitals in the world I would argue. My parents are older and retired but refuse to move because of the great doctors and hospitals we have. That is not so in other states. I am Ok with revamping our broken healthcare system. I think it sucks but until we fix the high cost of becoming a doctor we cannot move to UH. Additionally look at LASIK and cosmetic surgery, neither is covered by insurance but the costs have gone way down because more MDs entered the marketplace and naturally costs for procedures diminished. I do not believe our Govt is very good at managing entitlements why would I trust them with healthcare. And people are living longer so they would not work til their death. Raise the retirement age to 70 for all those under 40 and to 72 for all those under 30.

I'm going to bed, had a tough week. It's been nice talking to you today and hope we can continue. I'll leave you with this. You don't trust the government? I get it you are a conservative. I can only speak for my country but it seems to me that the healthcare system I live under is superior in terms of availability, efficiency and yes quality, it is government-run or nearly so. Can I suggest that you look past the prejudices in this instance and look at objective results? I'm not a Commie, idealist or snowflake, I consider myself a pragmatist. To me, some things are not meant to be for-profit, health is one of those. I don't think the government is a fix-all but you can't argue with results IMO.

I am an Independent. I do not trust the Govt to do anything well. Unfortunately. I wish it were different. If healthcare is not supposed to be for profit then why is the cost to become a doctor so high?

It isn't in my country where colleges are... government-run. Costs of Studying and Living in Belgium - MastersPortal.com
Isn't that kind of the point?

I do not follow? What?

If I assert that healthcare shouldn't be for profit. And you come back by stating that that's not true because it's very expensive to become a doctor. If I can show that becoming a doctor here is doable for about the same price as a single semester in a mid-tier college would set you back in the US, your argument is kind of hard to sustain isn't it?

Indeed. But it is expensive to become a doctor in the US and we ImO have the best doctors. Also I do not believe that healthcare is a right. If it is then why isn’t plumbing a right or food a right? It’s a slippery slope. I believe in free markets not in Govt interference or control. Our Govt has messed up entitlements why would I trust it with healthcare?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

It is a decision to own a car. If I don't own a car, I don't buy auto liability insurance.

Yes, if someone makes a DECISION to buy a car and finance it over six or eight years, yes, you have to have insurance to cover any losses. Just as you need if you finance your house.

The last car I financed was a new, 1981 Buick Century. Every car and motorcycle since then I have paid cash. Depending on how long I held the car/motorcycle, I calculated if I wanted or did not want collision, theft and comprehensive coverage. It is all personal decisions.

As you know, buying what you WANT, works.

Again, that's awesome and stuff... but it doesn't address the problem.

I'm 57. Every year, I've paid for insurnace, except before 1992, when I was under the Army's plan. So for most of those 27 years, I paid in a lot more than I took out.

The one year I didn't, when I had run up about $40,000 of medical bills in one year, I had to fight Cigna tooth and nail to get them to pay what they promised. (It's why a fair medical reform plan would involve harvesting insurance executives for transplant organs! Seems only fair.)

The ironic thing, if the Right Wing and Big insurance hadn't sabotaged Hillarycare back in the 1990's, we'd have had a solution. People who really like their employer plans could keep them, people who didn't have a plan got on HC and the companies that didn't provide insurance would pay a tax to finance it. Problem solved.

Big insurance didn't like that, and fought it tooth and nail. They did like Romney-Care .... err Obama Care, until they found out they couldn't cheat everyone who walked in the door.

57-year old asshole. Got it.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

My point was that auto insurance has zero to do with my employer why not make health insurance the same. Give people options. I have been paying in for 17 yrs now and have hardly used it. Others use it all the time because they are fat and didn’t take care of themselves. I do Not want to pay for them. With auto insurance, bad drivers pay more and good drivers pay less. Same with life insurance. Healthier people pay less. My wife pays the same as some fat unhealthy person through her job. That’s just stupid. UH will not work in the US until we get illegals and the high cost of becoming a doctor under control.

Oh, Barbie, it's so fun to watch you repeat the racist lies... Somewhere in Hell, Dr. Goebbels is having a good laugh.

UH would work just fine in the US because it works just fine in every other industrialized nation.

What we have now is broken. I followed Your logic until the last sentence. BTW, stop fucking hitting on me. I am not gay. Weirdo.

It's been established most hard core homophobes are latent homosexuals, but let's stay on target here.

If we had to all negotiate for our insurance individually, the system would collapse in a week. The young wouldn't buy it, the old couldn't afford it...

You know what Joe, you are an asshole and a coward. Come to Boston and say your anti Jew rhetoric to my face. You would not so be civil here you prick. My wife served our country you didn’t so fuck off. Loser.

 

[forkup]

I'm going to bed, had a tough week. It's been nice talking to you today and hope we can continue. I'll leave you with this. You don't trust the government? I get it you are a conservative. I can only speak for my country but it seems to me that the healthcare system I live under is superior in terms of availability, efficiency and yes quality, it is government-run or nearly so. Can I suggest that you look past the prejudices in this instance and look at objective results? I'm not a Commie, idealist or snowflake, I consider myself a pragmatist. To me, some things are not meant to be for-profit, health is one of those. I don't think the government is a fix-all but you can't argue with results IMO.

I am an Independent. I do not trust the Govt to do anything well. Unfortunately. I wish it were different. If healthcare is not supposed to be for profit then why is the cost to become a doctor so high?

It isn't in my country where colleges are... government-run. Costs of Studying and Living in Belgium - MastersPortal.com
Isn't that kind of the point?

I do not follow? What?

If I assert that healthcare shouldn't be for profit. And you come back by stating that that's not true because it's very expensive to become a doctor. If I can show that becoming a doctor here is doable for about the same price as a single semester in a mid-tier college would set you back in the US, your argument is kind of hard to sustain isn't it?

Indeed. But it is expensive to become a doctor in the US and we ImO have the best doctors. Also I do not believe that healthcare is a right. If it is then why isn’t plumbing a right or food a right? It’s a slippery slope. I believe in free markets not in Govt interference or control. Our Govt has messed up entitlements why would I trust it with healthcare?

I never liked a slippery slope argument. "South-Vietnam falling is the first step to Communism taking over the world". "Pot is a gateway drug." Or this one. "Government taking over healthcare means we will become Socialists"

I've found that cause and effect aren't that easily predicted in general and predicting it into the future is a fools errand IMO. I can only state that in Europe and indeed for all, or nearly all Western nations the free market and UH, state-run UH coexist.
None of them have sworn off Capitalism. By the way, the free market runs on supply and demand. Success in healthcare is keeping the demand as low as possible (healthy populace) and supply as high as possible, something that suggests to me that for-profit healthcare is not the best way to go.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I am an Independent. I do not trust the Govt to do anything well. Unfortunately. I wish it were different. If healthcare is not supposed to be for profit then why is the cost to become a doctor so high?

It isn't in my country where colleges are... government-run. Costs of Studying and Living in Belgium - MastersPortal.com
Isn't that kind of the point?

I do not follow? What?

If I assert that healthcare shouldn't be for profit. And you come back by stating that that's not true because it's very expensive to become a doctor. If I can show that becoming a doctor here is doable for about the same price as a single semester in a mid-tier college would set you back in the US, your argument is kind of hard to sustain isn't it?

Indeed. But it is expensive to become a doctor in the US and we ImO have the best doctors. Also I do not believe that healthcare is a right. If it is then why isn’t plumbing a right or food a right? It’s a slippery slope. I believe in free markets not in Govt interference or control. Our Govt has messed up entitlements why would I trust it with healthcare?

I never liked a slippery slope argument. "South-Vietnam falling is the first step to Communism taking over the world". "Pot is a gateway drug." Or this one. "Government taking over healthcare means we will become Socialists"

I've found that cause and effect aren't that easily predicted in general and predicting it into the future is a fools errand IMO. I can only state that in Europe and indeed for all, or nearly all Western nations the free market and UH, state-run UH coexist.
None of them have sworn off Capitalism. By the way, the free market runs on supply and demand. Success in healthcare is keeping the demand as low as possible (healthy populace) and supply as high as possible, something that suggests to me that for-profit healthcare is not the best way to go.

Europe has negative interest rates and mediocre military and Brexit. Europe has imploded or will soon. Not an example of success imo

 

[forkup]

It isn't in my country where colleges are... government-run. Costs of Studying and Living in Belgium - MastersPortal.com
Isn't that kind of the point?

I do not follow? What?

If I assert that healthcare shouldn't be for profit. And you come back by stating that that's not true because it's very expensive to become a doctor. If I can show that becoming a doctor here is doable for about the same price as a single semester in a mid-tier college would set you back in the US, your argument is kind of hard to sustain isn't it?

Indeed. But it is expensive to become a doctor in the US and we ImO have the best doctors. Also I do not believe that healthcare is a right. If it is then why isn’t plumbing a right or food a right? It’s a slippery slope. I believe in free markets not in Govt interference or control. Our Govt has messed up entitlements why would I trust it with healthcare?

I never liked a slippery slope argument. "South-Vietnam falling is the first step to Communism taking over the world". "Pot is a gateway drug." Or this one. "Government taking over healthcare means we will become Socialists"

I've found that cause and effect aren't that easily predicted in general and predicting it into the future is a fools errand IMO. I can only state that in Europe and indeed for all, or nearly all Western nations the free market and UH, state-run UH coexist.
None of them have sworn off Capitalism. By the way, the free market runs on supply and demand. Success in healthcare is keeping the demand as low as possible (healthy populace) and supply as high as possible, something that suggests to me that for-profit healthcare is not the best way to go.

Europe has negative interest rates and mediocre military and Brexit. Europe has imploded or will soon. Not an example of success imo

That has absolutely nothing to do with per capita cost as a percentage of GDP of healthcare which is the most honest way to asses what healthcare costs. That shows that you overpay in general 50 percent more than other nations. As to Europe imploding, another irrelevancy. We had UH before the EU was ever thought of. We had it when Europe had conscription we had it in the middle of the cold war. Guess what we paid less than to.

 

[JoeB131]

Get back to us when you grow up

Yawn, guy, you were the one who got on here and said that minorities are dying faster because they are "Genetically inferior".

(you know, instead of being victims of oppression and having less access to the things that keep people healthy, like food and medicine.)

You are a racist piece of shit. Embrace it.... then maybe you can address why you are such an awful person.