Universal Healthcare - will not work in the US

[Markle]

What is the origin of these numbers? I would say that the figure of 52 K Canadians seeking care out of country, is too high. Even the Fraser Institute, which used a wildly flawed survey mechanism designed to inflate the figures, says the number is around 35,000.

"You would say"? I provide FACTS and a source and you provide..."You would say". Got it!

Show us all the reliable sources and links stating that figures from the Fraser Institute are inflated. If you cannot, then you are, once again, lying. Why?

Can you not read the figure in the lower right corner? Yes, this is a more recent chart but is that figure close to 35,000? To assist you so you know what to look for, this one reads 63,459.

 

[JoeB131]

As you know, Siemens used slave labor to produce electrical equipment for the Nazis.

Yes, they did... which proves my point that capitalists were JUST FINE WITH THE NAZIS.

You do love skirting the truth don't you?

Yes, 52,000 out of 37 million would be statistically insignificant. As you know, that is your desperate attempt to conceal the FACTS. The number you're looking for, honestly, would be the number of people on the waiting lists in Canada for those specialties.

Um, no... It's still an insignificant number.. A Significant number is 1 Million Americans going to Mexico for cheap doctors

Here you will see that the numbers leaving Canada for proper healthcare is increasing, significantly.

63K out of 37 Million? Still small. Less than 1%.

 

[Markle]

As you know, Siemens used slave labor to produce electrical equipment for the Nazis.

Yes, they did... which proves my point that capitalists were JUST FINE WITH THE NAZIS.

You do love skirting the truth don't you?

Yes, 52,000 out of 37 million would be statistically insignificant. As you know, that is your desperate attempt to conceal the FACTS. The number you're looking for, honestly, would be the number of people on the waiting lists in Canada for those specialties.

Um, no... It's still an insignificant number.. A Significant number is 1 Million Americans going to Mexico for cheap doctors

Here you will see that the numbers leaving Canada for proper healthcare is increasing, significantly.

63K out of 37 Million? Still small. Less than 1%.

 

[Markle]

As you know, Siemens used slave labor to produce electrical equipment for the Nazis.

Yes, they did... which proves my point that capitalists were JUST FINE WITH THE NAZIS.

You do love skirting the truth don't you?

Yes, 52,000 out of 37 million would be statistically insignificant. As you know, that is your desperate attempt to conceal the FACTS. The number you're looking for, honestly, would be the number of people on the waiting lists in Canada for those specialties.

Um, no... It's still an insignificant number.. A Significant number is 1 Million Americans going to Mexico for cheap doctors

Here you will see that the numbers leaving Canada for proper healthcare is increasing, significantly.

63K out of 37 Million? Still small. Less than 1%.

Post-1160 went way over your head, didn't it?

 

[mikegriffith1]

People are comparing apples, oranges, and bricks. I've lived or spent some time in several countries with universal healthcare programs. Israel has a good one, but it only has to serve 8 million people and there is competition built into the system. Greece and England's national healthcare systems are substandard, at best. Germany's universal care system is pretty good. So is Canada's, all things considered. But Germany and Canada's populations combined are not even half the size of ours. Plus, all of the above nations have either tough or draconian tort laws, something that our liberals fight tooth and nail.

 

[JoeB131]

People are comparing apples, oranges, and bricks. I've lived or spent some time in several countries with universal healthcare programs. Israel has a good one, but it only has to serve 8 million people and there is competition built into the system. Greece and England's national healthcare systems are substandard, at best. Germany's universal care system is pretty good. So is Canada's, all things considered. But Germany and Canada's populations combined are not even half the size of ours. Plus, all of the above nations have either tough or draconian tort laws, something that our liberals fight tooth and nail.

Yes we can Definitely compare you to a Brick....

Torts aren't the problem. Frankly, I WANT my doctor to make extra sure he cuts into the right leg before he puts me under, don't you?

The reality- The countries with Single Payer have longer life expectancy, lower infant mortality rates, and yes, they spend a lot less than we do per capita.

 

[Markle]

Torts aren't the problem. Frankly, I WANT my doctor to make extra sure he cuts into the right leg before he puts me under, don't you?

The reality- The countries with Single Payer have longer life expectancy, lower infant mortality rates, and yes, they spend a lot less than we do per capita.

As you know, tort reform is desperately needed. Frivolent lawsuits cost us hundreds of billions of dollars every year. Looser pays would go a long way toward rectifying that problem. That would have nothing, whatsoever to do with you suing a doctor for malpractice.

As you know too but continue to "mislead" about is life expectancy. Countries with longer life expectancies are homogenous countries, one race, one nationality. We are, as you refuse to accept, a heterogeneous country, many races, many nationalities.

The life expectancy in Norway at birth is 81.8 years. Until Muslim refugees started moving into the country, they are nearly 100% white Norwegians.

In Minnesota, a very large percentage of their population are Scandanavians. They also eat many of the foods from the Old Country. Their life expectancy is 81.05.

There are other reasons as well. We have far more vehicular fatalities than other countries.

As you know too, infant mortality rates are for the same reason. In addition, other countries have different criteria for evaluating infant mortality. But, you already knew that you just love to "mislead" gullible folks.

Wouldn't you be better able to deal with the issues if you were honest?

 

[JoeB131]

As you know, tort reform is desperately needed. Frivolent lawsuits cost us hundreds of billions of dollars every year. Looser pays would go a long way toward rectifying that problem. That would have nothing, whatsoever to do with you suing a doctor for malpractice.

Actually. No. Texas already DID the kind of "tort reform" - taking away the right of patients mauled by incompetent doctors - you guys talk about. Health Care costs didn't go down even a tiny little bit.

Report: Texas' tort law has failed to reduce health costs, attract doctors

As you know too but continue to "mislead" about is life expectancy. Countries with longer life expectancies are homogenous countries, one race, one nationality. We are, as you refuse to accept, a heterogeneous country, many races, many nationalities.

Look, we realize you are a racist cocksucker, you don't need to remind us.

Yes, when people of color can't get the kind of good health care white people can get, they WILL die younger. This is a bad thing for most decent human beings, but I don't think you understand that concept.

 

[ScorpioRising007]

I hear people say under socialized medicine doctors will quit because they won't make as much, I say let them we don't need that many doctors. My wife and I when we get treated when we are ill we usually just see Nurse Practitioners, Physician Assistants, and sometimes a DO. Unless I get admitted into ER I don't usually see an MD, they are way too expensive. Most of the time my wife and I do not see white male doctors (when we do choose to see a doctor), because everyone wants a white male doctor and booking is a nightmare and they never want to work after-hours or weekends. So I prefer seeing Indian doctors instead. They are usually cheaper, I can call and get an appointment right away, they will work weekends and they will work late hours too so I can see them after work, they all will take my HMO, and I actually have found them very intelligent and they seem to know more and do a better job treating me then the white doctors I have seen. So people say how expensive universal healthcare will be well one way is to convince people they don't have to go to an MD for many things a Nurse Practitioner, Physician Assistant, DO is in most cases just as good and if they do want to see an MD convince them that an Indian, woman, or foreign doctor will be just as good.

 

[forkup]

1. Too many people are ingrained with private insurance.
2. Education is not free. Becoming a doctor is expensive, they want to get paid and pay off potential student loans. Working for the Gov't does not do that.
3. Private pay provides better care. Even in Europe, the wealthy go that route.
4. Most logical people (on both sides of the aisle) agree with #1 and #2 and #3.

Candidates Who Attacked Warren Over 'Medicare For All' Draw Massive Fundraising Boost

Our system sucks and repubs have nothing to offer. We will likely get universal healthcare eventually. Other countries have shown it can be much cheaper.

Did other countries have ingrained private health plans? No. I don't see it happening until education costs go down significantly.

Yes the insurance industry loves to rob us, Our system is not good, something will change and repubs offer nothing.

GOP concentrates on lower pharma costs. Democrats want to go nuclear. Someone needs a middle ground. I agree the system is ridiculously complex and stupid.

wasn't that what ACA was?

 

[forkup]

I hear people say under socialized medicine doctors will quit because they won't make as much, I say let them we don't need that many doctors. My wife and I when we get treated when we are ill we usually just see Nurse Practitioners, Physician Assistants, and sometimes a DO. Unless I get admitted into ER I don't usually see an MD, they are way too expensive. Most of the time my wife and I do not see white male doctors (when we do choose to see a doctor), because everyone wants a white male doctor and booking is a nightmare and they never want to work after-hours or weekends. So I prefer seeing Indian doctors instead. They are usually cheaper, I can call and get an appointment right away, they will work weekends and they will work late hours too so I can see them after work, they all will take my HMO, and I actually have found them very intelligent and they seem to know more and do a better job treating me then the white doctors I have seen. So people say how expensive universal healthcare will be well one way is to convince people they don't have to go to an MD for many things a Nurse Practitioner, Physician Assistant, DO is in most cases just as good and if they do want to see an MD convince them that an Indian, woman, or foreign doctor will be just as good.

People say a lot of things doesn't mean it's true. I live in Belgium and have socialised medicine. We also have only a few entrance exams for taking a specific direction in college. Medicine is one of them. That exam has a failure rate of 80 percent. This means we have 5 times as many aplicants to become doctors than spots available.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

1. Too many people are ingrained with private insurance.
2. Education is not free. Becoming a doctor is expensive, they want to get paid and pay off potential student loans. Working for the Gov't does not do that.
3. Private pay provides better care. Even in Europe, the wealthy go that route.
4. Most logical people (on both sides of the aisle) agree with #1 and #2 and #3.

Candidates Who Attacked Warren Over 'Medicare For All' Draw Massive Fundraising Boost

Our system sucks and repubs have nothing to offer. We will likely get universal healthcare eventually. Other countries have shown it can be much cheaper.

Did other countries have ingrained private health plans? No. I don't see it happening until education costs go down significantly.

Yes the insurance industry loves to rob us, Our system is not good, something will change and repubs offer nothing.

GOP concentrates on lower pharma costs. Democrats want to go nuclear. Someone needs a middle ground. I agree the system is ridiculously complex and stupid.

wasn't that what ACA was?

Forcing people to pay for insurance is not a middle ground imo

 

[JoeB131]

Forcing people to pay for insurance is not a middle ground imo

Well, you are entitled to your opinion.

As stupid as it is.

Here's the thing. (I know you love when I say that.) The "Forcing people to buy insurance" was a Republican answer. When Hillary wanted to create a public agency for anyone who couldn't get insurance through their job, the Conservative Heritage Foundation proposed exactly that. Then Mitt Romney put it into practice in Massachusetts, and everyone was kind of fine with it. He called it "A Model for the Nation", and Conservatives had no problem with him. They had a problem with him being a Mormon Cultist, but they didn't have a problem with his Conservative Market Driven solution..

And then the Black Guy Did It. Obama ended up with RomneyCare Writ Large after they couldn't get a Public Option or a Medicare Buy into the final version. And just like that, all the people who were for it were not against it.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Forcing people to pay for insurance is not a middle ground imo

Well, you are entitled to your opinion.

As stupid as it is.

Here's the thing. (I know you love when I say that.) The "Forcing people to buy insurance" was a Republican answer. When Hillary wanted to create a public agency for anyone who couldn't get insurance through their job, the Conservative Heritage Foundation proposed exactly that. Then Mitt Romney put it into practice in Massachusetts, and everyone was kind of fine with it. He called it "A Model for the Nation", and Conservatives had no problem with him. They had a problem with him being a Mormon Cultist, but they didn't have a problem with his Conservative Market Driven solution..

And then the Black Guy Did It. Obama ended up with RomneyCare Writ Large after they couldn't get a Public Option or a Medicare Buy into the final version. And just like that, all the people who were for it were not against it.

I live in MA and to me it’s stupid to force the healthy to buy something they are unlikely to use to pay for the sick. I am not a Republican or a Romney fan. I think it should be mostly private pay with catastrophic insurance available like car insurance is now. Should not go through your employer and should not be nationalized. We are all entitled to our opinions, even you. No opinion is stupid but the person who provides it could be, such as you.

 

[wamose]

Universal healthcare in the US won't work because it would end up being universal healthcare for the world. Our immigration system has been undermined by Democrats and adding universal healthcare to our already inflated government spending is not only unaffordable, not even for just one year, but it will only serve to encourage more illegal immigration. We need to cut spending soon or this ship is going to sink. So maybe it's time for Democrats to come up with a real platform instead of trying to buy votes with crazy promises.

 

[Markle]

Actually. No. Texas already DID the kind of "tort reform" - taking away the right of patients mauled by incompetent doctors - you guys talk about. Health Care costs didn't go down even a tiny little bit.

Report: Texas' tort law has failed to reduce health costs, attract doctors

Cute, your "source" is a pay-site one has to register with to read from 2011.

Ten Years of Tort Reform in Texas: A Review
July 26, 2013 13 min read
[...]
The New York Times observed:

Four years after Texas voters approved a constitutional amendment limiting awards in medical malpractice lawsuits, doctors are responding as supporters predicted, arriving from all parts of the country to swell the ranks of specialists at Texas hospitals and bring professional healthcare to some long-underserved rural areas.
[...]
So The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, the Texas Trial Lawyers Association, and the American Medical Association have all agreed that HB4 worked to achieve its goals.

The reform bill’s most significant achievements have been increased access to health care and an unanticipated positive economic impact on the Texas economy. By the end of 2013, 10 years and three months after the effective date of HB4, the number of licensed physicians in the state will almost have doubled.[13] It is anticipated that Texas will have somewhere close to 60,000 doctors to care for its citizens, almost twice as many as it had in 2003. The number of physicians in Texas is now growing at twice the rate of the state’s population—a statistic that helps prove the success of HB4’s reforms in increasing access to health care.
[...]
A Tale of Two States
In 2003, Texas physicians were paying about the same malpractice rates as were doctors in New York. Physicians were struggling to pay their malpractice premiums and keep their practices open. A crisis in access to health care was facing both states.

Texas chose to adopt reasonable, common-sense lawsuit reforms. As a result, the malpractice insurance premiums paid by Texas doctors have fallen by more than 60 percent on average. Consequently, most Texas doctors are paying less than half of what they were paying 10 years ago.[21]

In contrast, malpractice premiums in New York have increased by 60 percent. As a result, almost 2,000 physicians have moved their practices from New York to Texas.
[...]
Texas has balanced its courts, improved its economy, increased access to health care, and provided remedies to those who have been wronged as well as protected the rights of the innocent. Texas should stand its ground and rebuff efforts to undo one of the foundations of the Texas economic miracle, and other states should look to Texas’s 10-year successful reform as an example to follow.

Ten Years of Tort Reform in Texas: A Review

Look, we realize you are a racist cocksucker, you don't need to remind us.

Yes, when people of color can't get the kind of good health care white people can get, they WILL die younger. This is a bad thing for most decent human beings, but I don't think you understand that concept.

And STILL, you have nothing, whatsoever, to support your childish accusation. I state FACTS, you continue to post.... Come back when you grow up and have something to support your failed opinions.

 

[forkup]

Our system sucks and repubs have nothing to offer. We will likely get universal healthcare eventually. Other countries have shown it can be much cheaper.

Did other countries have ingrained private health plans? No. I don't see it happening until education costs go down significantly.

Yes the insurance industry loves to rob us, Our system is not good, something will change and repubs offer nothing.

GOP concentrates on lower pharma costs. Democrats want to go nuclear. Someone needs a middle ground. I agree the system is ridiculously complex and stupid.

wasn't that what ACA was?

Forcing people to pay for insurance is not a middle ground imo

Seems to me wishing a middle ground without having to make compromises isn't a middle ground either. Aca made sure that people could keep their private insurance and at the same time insured that everybody who wanted it could get insurance. That is a compromise is it not? Every healthcare plan is a balance between service and affordability. Making sure that healthy people are enrolled to cover the cost of the less healthy is part of that balance.

As I said I'm Belgian my wife is American I've seen both sides in action. Know first hand the advantages and drawbacks of both. Something tells me that's more than most can say.

 

[Markle]

I hear people say under socialized medicine doctors will quit because they won't make as much, I say let them we don't need that many doctors.

Yeah, we all know how well that works, we need only look at our Northern neighbor.

Sick and waiting months, many Canadians take their checkbook and head South of the border to the great care available in the United States.

You are being redirected...

 

[RealDave]

25% of Americans had no insurance or inadequate insurance before ACA.

That's not a tiny fraction.

Car Crashes aren't enough to fudge those numbers, Cleetus. I see you struggle with math.

9 out of 100,000 is .009% difference. Not enough to change the life expectancy by a year.

The Brits live longer because they can get easy access to a doctor... Americans can't. Not if they are poor, anyway.

You can't actually believe the dribble you post. Anyone in this country can get healthcare, even if they just walk into an ER. They can go to an ER for literally anything. In fact, many flood the ER on Friday and Saturday nights in a drunken stuper. There are also free clinics and don't forget Medicaid. The left has duped the lemmings with this nonsense. They must keep the class warfare alive and well. To their credit, people like you and some others on this board have fallen for it, so it is working.

Actually, liberals just use talking points, in order to get what they really want- which is the ability to tell other people what to do. Whether or not they really believe it or not is questionable.

The Democratic politicians, yes, I agree. I do think that some Democratic voters have good intentions, but they are just ignorant and naive. They live in a fantasy world of sorts. The other Democratic voters are just as you say.

absolute bologna, super dupers. Yes it would be just terrible horrible if the Democrats can tell you to pay less in taxes, have good health care daycare paid parental leave cheap college and training a living wage. Just terrible horrible LOL. Brainwashed functional morons. All to save the rich greedy idiot GOP from paying their fair share to invest in America and you dumbasses. Aaarrrggghhh

Obama promised that we would be able to keep our doctors and our plans and we would be saving $2500 with his ACA.

That turned out to be a lie.

Why should the current promises of libs be taken seriously now?

I don't see "free" tuition, "forgiven" student loan debts, baby bonds, the New Green Deal, medicare for all, single payor turning out the way the libs envision.

Look at California and their High Speed Rail plan. A complete failure. Kasich is a RINO punk bitch, but the one thing that he got right was the termination of the Cleveland-Columbus-Dayton-Cincinnati High Speed Rail project. Libs online said Ohio was screwing themselves. But now, we see what happened in California.

There was nothing in the ACA that determined coverage networks. If you lost your doctor, you were too stupid to pick a plan that included him.

There was a grandfather clause in the ACA that said in effect at the bulls passing could be continued. If your ended, blame the insurance company.

The ACA lowered the rate on premium increases. I saved significantly more than $2500.

 

[RealDave]

I hear people say under socialized medicine doctors will quit because they won't make as much, I say let them we don't need that many doctors.

Yeah, we all know how well that works, we need only look at our Northern neighbor.

Sick and waiting months, many Canadians take their checkbook and head South of the border to the great care available in the United States.

You are being redirected...

If I call my family doctor for an appointment, It will be at least 6 weeks.