US Federal Debt

[Votto]

How much debt is too much debt? Does debt matter or is it all just monopoly money?

Can the US continue to run trillion dollar deficits every year with impunity, or will the Republic cease to be at some point because of the reckless spending?

I was discussing the situation with a friend who is a liberal. Their attitude was government should simply raise taxes to meet the debt it incurs every year, but conceded that those in government would never do such a thing because of the need for votes. People simply don't want to pay for anything but demand everything "free".

My friend then pointed out that the GOP is in control of government and should reduce spending, to which I replied they have no interest in reducing spending. No, both parties spend about the same, only, the money goes In a little different areas. No one in the GOP is going to seriously suggest reducing spending in fear of losing an election. Those in the tea party voted for Congressmen to do just that, but they folded to the spending gods. Also, no one will seriously consider raising taxes to cover the debt being incurred either.

So what is the answer? I suggested to my friend that the Article V movement was our only hope. If the states rise up and amend the Constitution to have Congress balance the budget, they will simply have to figure it out. In fact, just passing a budget would be great, let alone balancing one.

So that is the only hope of the country not going belly up fiscally, that is, if you don't believe Dick Cheney saying the deficits no longer matter and we can continue the status quo indefinitely.

 

[Timmy]

You shut your mouth! We want our whiz jets , national parks, and satellites around Saturn!

And tax cuts on top of that !!!

 

[ScienceRocks]

Tax cuts
Wars
and our broken healthcare system

Is the cause of the debt.

What you want OP is a third world backwards country like North Korea that worships its upper class, goes to war every 5 seconds and fucks everyone else.

 

[007]

Tax cuts
Wars
and our broken healthcare system

Is the cause of the debt.

What you want OP is a third world backwards country like North Korea that worships its upper class, goes to war every 5 seconds and fucks everyone else.

No it's not. Washington spends more than it has, simple as that, end of story.

Do you spend more money than you have?

 

[ScienceRocks]

War debt brought down the Russian empire and brought on the overthrow of the czar.
War debt and the royals fucking having it up brought down Louis XVI.

Infrastructure, science and education has never destroyed a great nation and never caused any of our debt.

 

[jwoodie]

So what is the answer? I suggested to my friend that the Article V movement was our only hope. If the states rise up and amend the Constitution to have Congress balance the budget, they will simply have to figure it out. In fact, just passing a budget would be great, let alone balancing one.

1. Paying the interest on our nation debt should be our biggest immediate concern. If interest rates rise to 5%, we would be paying $1 trillion per year on that alone.

2. Our current expenditures are so far above current revenues that suddenly imposing a balanced budget would create a massive economic depression, if not a revolution.

3. The only feasible ways to correct this situation are economic growth and/or inflation. The former increases revenues and decreases expenditures, while the latter spreads the burden over the widest number of people and allows them to plan accordingly.

4. Similarly, the best way to move towards a balanced budget is to prohibit any cost-of-living adjustments in any government program unless revenues have exceeded expenditures in the previous fiscal year.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

War debt brought down the Russian empire and brought on the overthrow of the czar.
War debt and the royals fucking having it up brought down Louis XVI.

Infrastructure, science and education has never destroyed a great nation and never caused any of our debt.

Then why didn't Obama invest in that for the last eight years instead of all his grandiose social programs that doubled the debt by adding another ten trillion dollars?

*****SMILE*****

 

[Votto]

"W" passed one of the largest entitlements in US history with the Drugs for Seniors program and Obama joked about not knowing how to pay for it.

Then Obama joins the wars abroad by invading Libya and escalating the war in Afghanistan.

Kids, as we see both party talking points are moot. Both parties are hypocritical as both with continue business a usual.

 

[Timmy]

Tax cuts
Wars
and our broken healthcare system

Is the cause of the debt.

What you want OP is a third world backwards country like North Korea that worships its upper class, goes to war every 5 seconds and fucks everyone else.

No it's not. Washington spends more than it has, simple as that, end of story.

Do you spend more money than you have?

Everyone spends more than they have .

DO you not have a mortgage? Student loan? Car loan?

 

[ScienceRocks]

Tax cuts
Wars
and our broken healthcare system

Is the cause of the debt.

What you want OP is a third world backwards country like North Korea that worships its upper class, goes to war every 5 seconds and fucks everyone else.

No it's not. Washington spends more than it has, simple as that, end of story.

Do you spend more money than you have?

Everyone spends more than they have .

DO you not have a mortgage? Student loan? Car loan?

You see the republicans don't want to stop the tax cuts, going to war or fix the healthcare system,,,,so they have to cut everything else.

Everything else and cutting don't go together very well.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Tax cuts
Wars
and our broken healthcare system

Is the cause of the debt.

What you want OP is a third world backwards country like North Korea that worships its upper class, goes to war every 5 seconds and fucks everyone else.

No it's not. Washington spends more than it has, simple as that, end of story.

Do you spend more money than you have?

Apparently we do:

 

[NYcarbineer]

War debt brought down the Russian empire and brought on the overthrow of the czar.
War debt and the royals fucking having it up brought down Louis XVI.

Infrastructure, science and education has never destroyed a great nation and never caused any of our debt.

Then why didn't Obama invest in that for the last eight years instead of all his grandiose social programs that doubled the debt by adding another ten trillion dollars?

*****SMILE*****

Obama 'social programs' did not add 10 trillion to the debt.

 

[leftwinger]

War debt brought down the Russian empire and brought on the overthrow of the czar.
War debt and the royals fucking having it up brought down Louis XVI.

Infrastructure, science and education has never destroyed a great nation and never caused any of our debt.

Then why didn't Obama invest in that for the last eight years instead of all his grandiose social programs that doubled the debt by adding another ten trillion dollars?

*****SMILE*****

Obama 'social programs' did not add 10 trillion to the debt.

You disappeared from the other DEBT threads as soon as I asked about the $4.5T dollar FED money printed. Much of it to buy up GOVT debt? I don't quite understand it and asked for answers. Does this mean BO actually presided over $14.5T total money debt? $12.5T?

We have this:

AND we have FED:

What is MBS? More Mortgage back securities that caused the last big crash? sigh....


AND of course we have consumer debt. We have to live. We can't print money and they can take back the asset if you default. If you have equity you can get out in a clean sale and move to cheaper. Cars, Student loan........not so easy. Student loan will follow you forever I hear.

During BO the requirements to qualify were reduced. Disability, Food stamps, Medicaid....everything went higher. Is it still way up? So yes, social costs went higher.....adding debt each year. EDIT: Carbine ran off again to jump into another thread.

 

[jknowgood]

Tax cuts
Wars
and our broken healthcare system

Is the cause of the debt.

What you want OP is a third world backwards country like North Korea that worships its upper class, goes to war every 5 seconds and fucks everyone else.

Ahhh, so your admitting obamacare was a failure?

 

[jknowgood]

War debt brought down the Russian empire and brought on the overthrow of the czar.
War debt and the royals fucking having it up brought down Louis XVI.

Infrastructure, science and education has never destroyed a great nation and never caused any of our debt.

Then why didn't Obama invest in that for the last eight years instead of all his grandiose social programs that doubled the debt by adding another ten trillion dollars?

*****SMILE*****

Obama 'social programs' did not add 10 trillion to the debt.

Then what did?

 

[task0778]

The problem with debt is you have to pay interest on it until you pay off the principal. Right now interest rates are pretty low and so the hit against our federal gov't for interest payments isn't that bad but each year we add more debt and those interest rates are going to go up sooner or later. By some estimates in ten years give or take the nat'l debt will be around $30 tril and we'll be paying close to a trillion bucks a year just on interest on that debt. That's money we can't spend on other stuff, and it's a huge unproductive drain on our economy.


And we haven't even begun to talk about the unfunded federal liabilities that by some estimates exceeds $200 trillion.

 

[NYcarbineer]

War debt brought down the Russian empire and brought on the overthrow of the czar.
War debt and the royals fucking having it up brought down Louis XVI.

Infrastructure, science and education has never destroyed a great nation and never caused any of our debt.

Then why didn't Obama invest in that for the last eight years instead of all his grandiose social programs that doubled the debt by adding another ten trillion dollars?

*****SMILE*****

Obama 'social programs' did not add 10 trillion to the debt.

You disappeared from the other DEBT threads as soon as I asked about the $4.5T dollar FED money printed. Much of it to buy up GOVT debt? I don't quite understand it and asked for answers. Does this mean BO actually presided over $14.5T total money debt? $12.5T?

We have this:View attachment 126544

AND we have FED:
View attachment 126545

What is MBS? More Mortgage back securities that caused the last big crash? sigh....


AND of course we have consumer debt. We have to live. We can't print money and they can take back the asset if you default. If you have equity you can get out in a clean sale and move to cheaper. Cars, Student loan........not so easy. Student loan will follow you forever I hear.

During BO the requirements to qualify were reduced. Disability, Food stamps, Medicaid....everything went higher. Is it still way up? So yes, social costs went higher.....adding debt each year. EDIT: Carbine ran off again to jump into another thread.

Uh, none of that proves that Obama added 10 trillion to the debt.

 

[NYcarbineer]

War debt brought down the Russian empire and brought on the overthrow of the czar.
War debt and the royals fucking having it up brought down Louis XVI.

Infrastructure, science and education has never destroyed a great nation and never caused any of our debt.

Then why didn't Obama invest in that for the last eight years instead of all his grandiose social programs that doubled the debt by adding another ten trillion dollars?

*****SMILE*****

Obama 'social programs' did not add 10 trillion to the debt.

You disappeared from the other DEBT threads as soon as I asked about the $4.5T dollar FED money printed. Much of it to buy up GOVT debt? I don't quite understand it and asked for answers. Does this mean BO actually presided over $14.5T total money debt? $12.5T?

We have this:View attachment 126544

AND we have FED:
View attachment 126545

What is MBS? More Mortgage back securities that caused the last big crash? sigh....


AND of course we have consumer debt. We have to live. We can't print money and they can take back the asset if you default. If you have equity you can get out in a clean sale and move to cheaper. Cars, Student loan........not so easy. Student loan will follow you forever I hear.

During BO the requirements to qualify were reduced. Disability, Food stamps, Medicaid....everything went higher. Is it still way up? So yes, social costs went higher.....adding debt each year. EDIT: Carbine ran off again to jump into another thread.

Uh, none of that proves that Obama added 10 trillion to the debt.

War debt brought down the Russian empire and brought on the overthrow of the czar.
War debt and the royals fucking having it up brought down Louis XVI.

Infrastructure, science and education has never destroyed a great nation and never caused any of our debt.

Then why didn't Obama invest in that for the last eight years instead of all his grandiose social programs that doubled the debt by adding another ten trillion dollars?

*****SMILE*****

Obama 'social programs' did not add 10 trillion to the debt.

Then what did?

Tell us what social programs Obama started, first.

 

[NYcarbineer]

War debt brought down the Russian empire and brought on the overthrow of the czar.
War debt and the royals fucking having it up brought down Louis XVI.

Infrastructure, science and education has never destroyed a great nation and never caused any of our debt.

Then why didn't Obama invest in that for the last eight years instead of all his grandiose social programs that doubled the debt by adding another ten trillion dollars?

*****SMILE*****

Obama 'social programs' did not add 10 trillion to the debt.

You disappeared from the other DEBT threads as soon as I asked about the $4.5T dollar FED money printed. Much of it to buy up GOVT debt? I don't quite understand it and asked for answers. Does this mean BO actually presided over $14.5T total money debt? $12.5T?

We have this:View attachment 126544

AND we have FED:
View attachment 126545

What is MBS? More Mortgage back securities that caused the last big crash? sigh....


AND of course we have consumer debt. We have to live. We can't print money and they can take back the asset if you default. If you have equity you can get out in a clean sale and move to cheaper. Cars, Student loan........not so easy. Student loan will follow you forever I hear.

During BO the requirements to qualify were reduced. Disability, Food stamps, Medicaid....everything went higher. Is it still way up? So yes, social costs went higher.....adding debt each year. EDIT: Carbine ran off again to jump into another thread.

Uh, none of that proves that Obama added 10 trillion to the debt.

War debt brought down the Russian empire and brought on the overthrow of the czar.
War debt and the royals fucking having it up brought down Louis XVI.

Infrastructure, science and education has never destroyed a great nation and never caused any of our debt.

Then why didn't Obama invest in that for the last eight years instead of all his grandiose social programs that doubled the debt by adding another ten trillion dollars?

*****SMILE*****

Obama 'social programs' did not add 10 trillion to the debt.

Then what did?

What social programs did Obama start singlehandedly?

 

[Mac1958]

How much debt is too much debt? Does debt matter or is it all just monopoly money? Can the US continue to run trillion dollar deficits every year with impunity, or will the Republic cease to be at some point because of the reckless spending?

I've long advocated that a high school student cannot graduate until they have taken, completed and passed a fundamental Economics course that includes two parts: Personal finance and fundamental public finance.

From what I've seen, it's clear that "the public" really doesn't understand what "the debt" is: The repayment of loans that the government has taken (primarily in the form of bonds) to keep operating. So, it's like a family with a credit card without a balance limit. The payments on those loans have to come from the government. Our money. That's damn near a gross over-simplification of what's happening, but it's a start.

Right now, our loan repayments are at $257 BILLION a year and climbing. That's $257 BILLION A YEAR that could be going to other things like infrastructure or education or science or national security, or just not taxed in the first place. Kept and spent by us, and our families.

So it's not a stretch to say that, because we're having to divert and spend money to pay those loans, our debt is lowering our standard of living, directly. Just don't ask a fucking politician to admit that.
.