USMB (Saddleback) Forum Question

[AllieBaba]

I think the transportation should be provided by the parents if they send their kids to a school outside of their district. But they should still be allowed to do so if they want.

Head Start works like this...there are income limits, but they are generous. They have certain "slots" for certain criteria. For example, they have so many "slots" for children who are above the income limit, they have so many slots for disabled children, etc.

My kids went to head start, with my daughter going the first year on the reservation, an absolutely wonderful program. It was 5 days a week, from 8 until 4 p.m., and except for the continual lice issue there was very little about it I would change. The elders were housed in the same building and the children were able to visit with them and have language lessons with them, and story time, and they had tribal members come in and teach them to dance and play traditional games; we went root digging in the spring and had the root feast, and various and assorted give aways and cultural events. My daughter learned to spell her name by the time she was 4, and to count and the letters of the alphabet, as well as learning some things about her culture, communication, and manners. The food was wonderful...so many kids have never sat at a table before and eaten family style, so that in and of itself was worthwhile. When she first started, I believe we were over the income level and lived off the reservation, but because she was Indian and all her cousins and brothers had attended they were able to move her into one of the alternative slots.

This year we moved to a different community, and the head start can't even begin to compare. It only operates 4 days a week, from 8 until noon, and there are none of the cultural or even intense learning aspects of the tribal head start. The kids enjoyed it, but the learning curve was much slower (though they did both learn) and there weren't so many really enriching activities....

 

[AllieBaba]

The reservation head start had 20 children per class, with one head teacher and one or two aides.

The class here where I am had a total of 4 kids in the two different age groups. One teacher, one aid.

 

[AllieBaba]

How many actual homeschooling families do you know? Or is this another thought of they let's right laws base on the lowest common denominator? Most parents are perfectly capable to educate their kids... Only reason they aren't is due to people like you saying they can't and they now believe it.

Some actual data for ya:

http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/comp2001/HomeSchoolAchievement.pdf

I have home schooled 3 of my children for a year and 1 of them for 2 yrs. They went back in at the same academic levels and now have a BETTER understanding of what the real world is like. They learned that education doesn't just happen in a classroom but can happen anywhere you are. They understand life is no more than one huge classroom.

Some people are really good at homeschooling...but some people just can't do it. I tried to homeschool my oldest boy when he was about 10 (to make a long story short, he had juvenile epilepsy and the school was completely messing him up). I couldn't do it. He was stubborn and difficult, and in addition having issues with his seizures which made it very, very difficult (among other types of seizures he had petit mal, brief frequent interruption of consciousness which in his case were so frequent and brief, you couldn't even tell he was having them unless you were aware of what was going on).

I know people who have done wonderful jobs of homeschool their children...and parents who didn't.

But you run the same chances of your kids getting an inadequate education in a public school as well, for whatever reasons....because they aren't focused, because they have learning issues, because there are distractions at the school, because they have a bad teacher or their parents aren't disciplined enough to make homework and study a priority.

 

[wihosa]

Someone describe the fair way in which teachers would be evaluated for merit pay increases. How would factors like income, parent involvement, parental education level, prior child education, etc. be controlled for? All these factors have been shown to effect outcomes.

 

[CA95380]

I think the transportation should be provided by the parents if they send their kids to a school outside of their district. But they should still be allowed to do so if they want.

Agreed. They should be able to put them outside their district .... if .... the school they would like for them to attend would not be over crowded ... that could turn into a problem too, right? [/QUOTE]

Head Start works like this...there are income limits, but they are generous. They have certain "slots" for certain criteria. For example, they have so many "slots" for children who are above the income limit, they have so many slots for disabled children, etc.

Ok, then it has changed over the years, if the same if for California. When our children were in school the really low income children actually got almost 1 full year more of school, and were ahead of our kids by that much when they started. The disabled childen part is awesome. So many of those kids miss school for various reasons - they should be allowed in it. Goood!

My kids went to head start, with my daughter going the first year on the reservation, an absolutely wonderful program. It was 5 days a week, from 8 until 4 p.m., and except for the continual lice issue there was very little about it I would change. The elders were housed in the same building and the children were able to visit with them and have language lessons with them, and story time, and they had tribal members come in and teach them to dance and play traditional games; we went root digging in the spring and had the root feast, and various and assorted give aways and cultural events. My daughter learned to spell her name by the time she was 4, and to count and the letters of the alphabet, as well as learning some things about her culture, communication, and manners. The food was wonderful...so many kids have never sat at a table before and eaten family style, so that in and of itself was worthwhile. When she first started, I believe we were over the income level and lived off the reservation, but because she was Indian and all her cousins and brothers had attended they were able to move her into one of the alternative slots.

This was another reason I thought it was good program. The kids were getting good food, that they would not have been getting if they were not a part of head start.

This year we moved to a different community, and the head start can't even begin to compare. It only operates 4 days a week, from 8 until noon, and there are none of the cultural or even intense learning aspects of the tribal head start. The kids enjoyed it, but the learning curve was much slower (though they did both learn) and there weren't so many really enriching activities....

Could this be due to overcrowding? This sounds a lot like our pre-school here, in CA. It is not Head Start but it is pre-school.

 

[CA95380]

The reservation head start had 20 children per class, with one head teacher and one or two aides.

The class here where I am had a total of 4 kids in the two different age groups. One teacher, one aid.

This sounds perfect. But we all know that because of the amount of students ... probably unrealistic in some area's of the country.

 

[Gunny]

lol .... again what I am trying to do is get opinions of others here on the USMB forum?

I remember both of them mentioning vouchers and home schooling. What is your take, Echo .... as a teacher ... about these?

And again, how do you judge a good teacher? Granted some teachers may have a more successful formula for the subject they teach. That formula might not work in another subject.

Then there are the students themselves. It's just like a team making a coach ... the students make the teacher.

I see to much opportunity for unfairness and abuse paying "better" teachers "more."

You also cannot omit the entire topic of education simply because you want only one answer. When we quit being a bunch of pussies as we've become and demand our children excel academically and punish them for not at least passing, and allow the teachers not the students to control the classrooms, you might see an improvement in our education system.

When advanced students are allowed to be called advanced students and placed in higher classes instead of being held back because dumb little Johnny just can't cut the mustard, you might see and improvement in what our education system puts out.

Pyaing teachers more for a standard that would be measured by how many students they pass is just going to lead to some really dumb students making "A's" so teach can get a bonus.

 

[random3434]

How many actual homeschooling families do you know? Or is this another thought of they let's right laws base on the lowest common denominator? Most parents are perfectly capable to educate their kids... Only reason they aren't is due to people like you saying they can't and they now believe it.

Some actual data for ya:

http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/comp2001/HomeSchoolAchievement.pdf

I have home schooled 3 of my children for a year and 1 of them for 2 yrs. They went back in at the same academic levels and now have a BETTER understanding of what the real world is like. They learned that education doesn't just happen in a classroom but can happen anywhere you are. They understand life is no more than one huge classroom.

First, explain what I bolded in black means please.

Second, I said "Well, home schooling is a choice a lot of parents are making these days. What worries me is, are these parents really qualified to teach their kids all they need to know? Some are, some aren't. "

Did I say ALL parents aren't qualifed? No, but because you are a parent who does home school, all you saw is "some aren't."

Third, yes, I know many familes who home school. A friend of mine has 5 children, she home schools all of them, and always have. She also has a teaching degree from IU. A lot of families at the YMCA where we go also home school their children. They use the Y as another resource to enrich their child's home schooling.
There are also parents who have pulled their children out of school because "Justin" got in trouble, so they decided to home school him. I know of parents who have home schooled their children, then they come to our school and are at least 2 grade level behind their peers.

THIS is what I meant by SOME are, SOME aren't. A lot of the kids who won the National Spelling Bee were home schooled.

 

[CA95380]

And again, how do you judge a good teacher? Granted some teachers may have a more successful formula for the subject they teach. That formula might not work in another subject.

Then there are the students themselves. It's just like a team making a coach ... the students make the teacher.

I see to much opportunity for unfairness and abuse paying "better" teachers "more."

You also cannot omit the entire topic of education simply because you want only one answer. When we quit being a bunch of pussies as we've become and demand our children excel academically and punish them for not at least passing, and allow the teachers not the students to control the classrooms, you might see an improvement in our education system.

When advanced students are allowed to be called advanced students and placed in higher classes instead of being held back because dumb little Johnny just can't cut the mustard, you might see and improvement in what our education system puts out.

Pyaing teachers more for a standard that would be measured by how many students they pass is just going to lead to some really dumb students making "A's" so teach can get a bonus.

Excellant points. I don't know what the answer is, that is why I was asking. But there has to be teachers that are obviously better then others, no? The whole thing boils down to ... if you are willing to go to college to become an educator of our children ... you should do the very best that you can, not sluff off because you end up in a ghetto or school that is obvioulsy not in the best part of town. Giving "A's" just to be giving them helps no one. When you decided to be a teacher you knew that the 'rewards, and pay' were not going to be all that good ... which is a damn shame! You became a teacher to make a difference. At least that is the reason I hope that they do.

I wanted to add one thing about being able to "chose" the school you are allowed to take out children to (out of your district) ... could this not create more of a problem with the school, students, and teachers that are left behind? This could create a whole new can of worms - now that I think about it. It might leave an entire school of children that their parents can not afford to drive to a school out of their designated area - turning it into more of a problem? Just curious?

 

[Angel Heart]

Ok, then it has changed over the years, if the same if for California. When our children were in school the really low income children actually got almost 1 full year more of school, and were ahead of our kids by that much when they started. The disabled childen part is awesome. So many of those kids miss school for various reasons - they should be allowed in it. Goood!

In California it's universally funded. There's a spot for every child 3 and 4yrs old. That is a state by state thing. Feds only cover x amount. Here in Oregon we just reached fully funded thanks to the state reps. Before that we where covering 40-60% of need. I do not want to go to universal. It should be for the kids that really need it. Low income, disabled and foster children.

This was another reason I thought it was good program. The kids were getting good food, that they would not have been getting if they were not a part of head start.

We provide 1 to 2 meals a day per kid depending on if they are morning or afternoon. We also push for parent education. We talk about cooking on a budget. Oh I can go on and on about the benefits to the family that come from Head Start.

Could this be due to overcrowding? This sounds a lot like our pre-school here, in CA. It is not Head Start but it is pre-school.

Head Start is not a preschool only program. We have services you will not find at any other preschool. Preschools don't have family advocates. They go into the children's homes and help them improve their life. We start out with major needs. Are the bulls being covers? Do you have enough food? Then we move on to the ones that will bring about major changes in their family if they take us up on it. We talk about the parents education. We will also pay for GED studies and tests, and some college classes.

Well I'll close with that. I hope it explained some why Head Start is more than just a preschool but a revolutionary way to help people.

Oh and I wanted to add Head Start is not a place for child care. We are a social services program.

 

[Angel Heart]

First, explain what I bolded in black means please.

Second, I said "Well, home schooling is a choice a lot of parents are making these days. What worries me is, are these parents really qualified to teach their kids all they need to know? Some are, some aren't. "

Did I say ALL parents aren't qualifed? No, but because you are a parent who does home school, all you saw is "some aren't."

Third, yes, I know many familes who home school. A friend of mine has 5 children, she home schools all of them, and always have. She also has a teaching degree from IU. A lot of families at the YMCA where we go also home school their children. They use the Y as another resource to enrich their child's home schooling.
There are also parents who have pulled their children out of school because "Justin" got in trouble, so they decided to home school him. I know of parents who have home schooled their children, then they come to our school and are at least 2 grade level behind their peers.

THIS is what I meant by SOME are, SOME aren't. A lot of the kids who won the National Spelling Bee were home schooled.

You know what... I'm surviving on about 6 hours sleep over the last 5 days (I worked distributing food to people who need it BTW while teaching my kids). And just maybe, it's a sign of my dyslexia coming out due to that lack of sleep.

Oh and you just might want to run your posts through a spell check ... I underlined them for you.

For those that just might of not been told... You're your child's first teacher. You will also be the teacher that's in their life the longest.

 

[random3434]

You know what... I'm surviving on about 6 hours sleep over the last 5 days (I worked distributing food to people who need it BTW while teaching my kids). And just maybe, it's a sign of my dyslexia coming out due to that lack of sleep.

Oh and you just might want to run your posts through a spell check ... I underlined them for you.

For those that just might of not been told... You're your child's first teacher. You will also be the teacher that's in their life the longest.

I know how to spell those words, thanks! I also am not getting enough sleep, must be something in the air, or being busy parents.

Now, I admire you for what you do. You seem to have some sort of bias toward public school teachers. If you do, could you explain why?

I think Head Start is one of the greatest programs to help all children. Thank goodness they have programs like that, I feel they need more. Rob Reiner is a big supporter of early childhood programs.

I hope to talk to you more about different ways to educate children, but I have to go to work now.

Have a nice day Angel Heart!

 

[editec]

Expecting our schools to mitigate the problems of our society is absurd.

If american families are in trouble (and I think they are) America's schools are likewise going to be in trouble.

While I am not entirely opposed to vouchers, thinking those will solve the problems in education is simply foolish.

Speaking as a professional educator myself, I'd be thrilled if our educational system hired, retained and paid teachers based on merit.

But merit, as far as I can tell in most schools is based on what sports you're willing to coach more than how well you teach or understand your subject matter.

Merit in education is mighty hard to quantify, folks.

 

[CA95380]

Good discussion to those that participated. Thanks.

As for me ... I still have concern with what both Obama and McCain had to say about this.

I am still in search of a candidate, but .... as of right now, my vote is leaning toward Mr. Duck.

 

[dilloduck]

Good discussion to those that participated. Thanks.

As for me ... I still have concern with what both Obama and McCain had to say about this.

I am still in search of a candidate, but .... as of right now, my vote is leaning toward Mr. Duck.

never---you're pissing up a rope, girl.

 

[CA95380]

I will leave 'pissing up a rope' for you guys - I think that is why the term is used. Our (women's) plumbing ... would make this VERY difficult!

 

[Angel Heart]

I know how to spell those words, thanks! I also am not getting enough sleep, must be something in the air, or being busy parents.

Now, I admire you for what you do. You seem to have some sort of bias toward public school teachers. If you do, could you explain why?

I think Head Start is one of the greatest programs to help all children. Thank goodness they have programs like that, I feel they need more. Rob Reiner is a big supporter of early childhood programs.

I hope to talk to you more about different ways to educate children, but I have to go to work now.

Have a nice day Angel Heart!

Where to start with my issues and public school teachers. I've been insulted, degraded and humiliated by them... Hows that for ya. Many are in the job just for the pay check. Too many bad ones are still in place due to unions.

Now that the rant is out of the way...

Why does the public school system dodge things like dyslexia? I was informed by a 'learning specialist' that it's an 'archaic' term. Only one state recognizes it as a learning disability and that's Texas. When 20+% of the population is dyslexic, maybe we should focus on it. Did you know that if one parent is dyslexic there's a 50/50 chance of the child being, and if both are the child definitely will be.

When teachers look at me like I'm dumb when I bring up dyslexia, that's when I started to get a chip about school teachers. Teachers need to be educated as to what dyslexia is and that the signs of it are there from preschool age. It starts with speech issues.

Here's some info for ya: Bright Solutions for Dyslexia Please be informed as to what dyslexia is and how it can be dealt with in the best way.

I hope you have a great day too. Thanks for not biting my head off when I did yours.

 

[dilloduck]

I will leave 'pissing up a rope' for you guys - I think that is why the term is used. Our (women's) plumbing ... would make this VERY difficult!

uh--that's the point " granny ". It ain't easy for anyone.

 

[Angel Heart]

I will leave 'pissing up a rope' for you guys - I think that is why the term is used. Our (women's) plumbing ... would make this VERY difficult!

I don't know with this you just might be able to Freshette

 

[manifold]

I didn't say your school was bad. But there are bad schools, and they aren't just in the inner cities, and parents should be able to send their kids elsewhere if they so desire.

What's stopping them?