UVA student jailed for possession of bottled water, ice cream

[Pogo]

I do, nevertheless, based on the facts presented the woman saw the badges and sought to escape anyway. When everything is reduced to facts, all parties are at fault here. Leave the media out and we have an individual who had the shit scared out of her by the rape seminar she just left, an aggressive team of ABC agents and a great deal of miscommunication and possible abuse of authority. As I stated previously this agency needs to revamp their policies and procedures. That does not dismiss the woman's overreaction to the situation and using her car to hit the agents. While she did not recognize the badges that were shown to her that does not excuse her behavior.

I still don't see it. If the woman had seen the badge and realized they were legitimate police, and the package contained water (which it did), then what reason would there be to run? Doesn't add up. The only explanation is that she did not have that impression, so she did what law enforcement tells women they are supposed to do when approached by strange people in the dark -- get away from the aggressor and call police. That is not overreaction. It would be suicidal to react any other way.

And yes, not being able to verify the badges -- if they showed them at all, which (a) I have significant doubts about and (b) it was described as very dark-- it does excuse her behavior. She did exactly what she's supposed to do to protect herself given the information available at the moment. Those guys could have been any kind of gang in the dark, and the idea of a seven-member SWAT team swarming a car, smashing windows, drawing guns and jumping on the hood on suspicion of beer is simply NOT behaviour that would imply any kind of legitimate police.

Damn right she did the right thing, and if she didn't do what she did in any similar situation we'd likely be reading about where her body parts were dug up. When the police are acting like thugs ladies and gentlemen, we have ourselves a problem. And it's not with us.

The sense? It is called obeying a lawful order. After which she could have filed a complaint with the authorities. As it is she took the law into her own hands based upon her irrational fears. A LEO showed a badge and she claims she did not recognize it ... and penitentiaries are filled with inmates who claim they are innocent . Based upon your rationale we should set them free.

My friend, I'm telling you, and I'm telling you from direct experience, LEOs are notoriously shaky about properly identifying themselves. AND it was described as very dark.

Again, what reason would a grocery shopper wielding water have for running from legitimate police? And keep in mind, "legitimate" here means what could be determined in the moment.

Now if beer were such a scourge on humanity that seven people jumping a car in the dark would be some kind of normal event, then it might be more plausible in the moment that they really were police, and this would not be a story at all and this thread would not exist.

This notion that police are some kind of super race who are always right has got to go. They're human. Any time we award authority, that authority has to have some restraint against abuse. This was clearly abuse. I cannot see how following the instinct of self-preservation when seven guys jump three young women in the dark can be seen as "irrational". They were being attacked. Hello?

 

[Connery]

I still don't see it. If the woman had seen the badge and realized they were legitimate police, and the package contained water (which it did), then what reason would there be to run? Doesn't add up. The only explanation is that she did not have that impression, so she did what law enforcement tells women they are supposed to do when approached by strange people in the dark -- get away from the aggressor and call police. That is not overreaction. It would be suicidal to react any other way.

And yes, not being able to verify the badges -- if they showed them at all, which (a) I have significant doubts about and (b) it was described as very dark-- it does excuse her behavior. She did exactly what she's supposed to do to protect herself given the information available at the moment. Those guys could have been any kind of gang in the dark, and the idea of a seven-member SWAT team swarming a car, smashing windows, drawing guns and jumping on the hood on suspicion of beer is simply NOT behaviour that would imply any kind of legitimate police.

Damn right she did the right thing, and if she didn't do what she did in any similar situation we'd likely be reading about where her body parts were dug up. When the police are acting like thugs ladies and gentlemen, we have ourselves a problem. And it's not with us.

The sense? It is called obeying a lawful order. After which she could have filed a complaint with the authorities. As it is she took the law into her own hands based upon her irrational fears. A LEO showed a badge and she claims she did not recognize it ... and penitentiaries are filled with inmates who claim they are innocent . Based upon your rationale we should set them free.

My friend, I'm telling you, and I'm telling you from direct experience, LEOs are notoriously shaky about properly identifying themselves. AND it was described as very dark.

Again, what reason would a grocery shopper wielding water have for running from legitimate police? And keep in mind, "legitimate" here means what could be determined in the moment.

Now if beer were such a scourge on humanity that seven people jumping a car in the dark would be some kind of normal event, then it might be more plausible in the moment that they really were police, and this would not be a story at all and this thread would not exist.

This notion that police are some kind of super race who are always right has got to go. They're human. Any time we award authority, that authority has to have some restraint against abuse. This was clearly abuse.

I never was, I always Identified myself. She could have done any number of things. The practice and procedure of ABC needs to be revamped. Now if these ABCs were the goon squad they are portrayed to be they would have shot that car up as she used it to get away in the process making it a deadly weapon because it did come into contact with the ABC officers.

If I had anymore Oscars to hand out I would send one to this woman, but I have given all to those I have apprehended who made various outrageous claims such as hers....

 

[Pogo]

The sense? It is called obeying a lawful order. After which she could have filed a complaint with the authorities. As it is she took the law into her own hands based upon her irrational fears. A LEO showed a badge and she claims she did not recognize it ... and penitentiaries are filled with inmates who claim they are innocent . Based upon your rationale we should set them free.

My friend, I'm telling you, and I'm telling you from direct experience, LEOs are notoriously shaky about properly identifying themselves. AND it was described as very dark.

Again, what reason would a grocery shopper wielding water have for running from legitimate police? And keep in mind, "legitimate" here means what could be determined in the moment.

Now if beer were such a scourge on humanity that seven people jumping a car in the dark would be some kind of normal event, then it might be more plausible in the moment that they really were police, and this would not be a story at all and this thread would not exist.

This notion that police are some kind of super race who are always right has got to go. They're human. Any time we award authority, that authority has to have some restraint against abuse. This was clearly abuse.

I never was, I always Identified myself. She could have done any number of things. The practice and procedure of ABC needs to be revamped. Now if these ABCs were the goon squad they are portrayed to be they would have shot that car up as she used it to get away in the process making it a deadly weapon because it did come into contact with the ABC officers.

If I had anymore Oscars to hand out I would send one to this woman, but I have given all to those I have apprehended who made various outrageous claims such as hers....

Ah, until now I did not have the info that you are/were a LEO. That's disclosure is significant. Specifically because, as I told another LEO in another thread, you guys are, by definition, immune from all of this. These kinds of things simply do not happen to you as they happen to the rest of us. I don't think you can appreciate the scene here. And I don't think you can assume that LE is always right. Clearly here they were not, even in their original premise (water being beer).

I'm sorry to say this but if you believe seven guys jumping on the hood, drawing weapons and smashing windows because a grocery bag might have beer in it is a reasonable approach, then you need to be restrained too. For the good of everybody.

 

[Pogo]

The sense? It is called obeying a lawful order. After which she could have filed a complaint with the authorities. As it is she took the law into her own hands based upon her irrational fears. A LEO showed a badge and she claims she did not recognize it ... and penitentiaries are filled with inmates who claim they are innocent . Based upon your rationale we should set them free.

My friend, I'm telling you, and I'm telling you from direct experience, LEOs are notoriously shaky about properly identifying themselves. AND it was described as very dark.

Again, what reason would a grocery shopper wielding water have for running from legitimate police? And keep in mind, "legitimate" here means what could be determined in the moment.

Now if beer were such a scourge on humanity that seven people jumping a car in the dark would be some kind of normal event, then it might be more plausible in the moment that they really were police, and this would not be a story at all and this thread would not exist.

This notion that police are some kind of super race who are always right has got to go. They're human. Any time we award authority, that authority has to have some restraint against abuse. This was clearly abuse.

I never was, I always Identified myself. She could have done any number of things. The practice and procedure of ABC needs to be revamped. Now if these ABCs were the goon squad they are portrayed to be they would have shot that car up as she used it to get away in the process making it a deadly weapon because it did come into contact with the ABC officers.

If I had anymore Oscars to hand out I would send one to this woman, but I have given all to those I have apprehended who made various outrageous claims such as hers....

You've raised a good point that they did not, say, shoot the tires. It immediately occurs to me that they might have refrained from that because they already knew their act was excessive, that they had unnecessarily escalated the event, and because it may have dawned on them that endangering lives with firearm discharge over nothing more than a suspicion of a package containing beer might be over the line.

I'm trying to see the positive here --- that there is a "line" at all.

 

[Connery]

My friend, I'm telling you, and I'm telling you from direct experience, LEOs are notoriously shaky about properly identifying themselves. AND it was described as very dark.

Again, what reason would a grocery shopper wielding water have for running from legitimate police? And keep in mind, "legitimate" here means what could be determined in the moment.

Now if beer were such a scourge on humanity that seven people jumping a car in the dark would be some kind of normal event, then it might be more plausible in the moment that they really were police, and this would not be a story at all and this thread would not exist.

This notion that police are some kind of super race who are always right has got to go. They're human. Any time we award authority, that authority has to have some restraint against abuse. This was clearly abuse.

I never was, I always Identified myself. She could have done any number of things. The practice and procedure of ABC needs to be revamped. Now if these ABCs were the goon squad they are portrayed to be they would have shot that car up as she used it to get away in the process making it a deadly weapon because it did come into contact with the ABC officers.

If I had anymore Oscars to hand out I would send one to this woman, but I have given all to those I have apprehended who made various outrageous claims such as hers....

Ah, until now I did not have the info that you are/were a LEO. That's disclosure is significant. Specifically because, as I told another LEO in another thread, you guys are, by definition, immune from all of this. These kinds of things simply do not happen to you as they happen to the rest of us. I don't think you can appreciate the scene here. And I don't think you can assume that LE is always right. Clearly here they were not, even in their original premise (water being beer).

I'm sorry to say this but if you believe seven guys jumping on the hood, drawing weapons and smashing windows because a grocery bag might have beer in it is a reasonable approach, then you need to be restrained too. For the good of everybody.

You have not read my posts regarding the practice and procedure of the ABC agents.

Also, before I became a LEO I had a similar suit against NYPD and won.....so best not to judge me without all the facts.

 

[Pogo]

I never was, I always Identified myself. She could have done any number of things. The practice and procedure of ABC needs to be revamped. Now if these ABCs were the goon squad they are portrayed to be they would have shot that car up as she used it to get away in the process making it a deadly weapon because it did come into contact with the ABC officers.

If I had anymore Oscars to hand out I would send one to this woman, but I have given all to those I have apprehended who made various outrageous claims such as hers....

Ah, until now I did not have the info that you are/were a LEO. That's disclosure is significant. Specifically because, as I told another LEO in another thread, you guys are, by definition, immune from all of this. These kinds of things simply do not happen to you as they happen to the rest of us. I don't think you can appreciate the scene here. And I don't think you can assume that LE is always right. Clearly here they were not, even in their original premise (water being beer).

I'm sorry to say this but if you believe seven guys jumping on the hood, drawing weapons and smashing windows because a grocery bag might have beer in it is a reasonable approach, then you need to be restrained too. For the good of everybody.

You have not read my posts regarding the practice and procedure of the ABC agents.

Also, before I became a LEO I had a similar suit against NYPD and won.....so best not to judge me without all the facts.

I don't judge you my friend, I hope I don't, and I have read your prior posts. I just think you might lack some perspective, because your position doesn't make sense any other way. Citizens must have some rights, some shred of dignity to hold on to. Awarding absolute power that is never questioned is simply not a wise path. Thank you for this exchange.

 

[Connery]

Ah, until now I did not have the info that you are/were a LEO. That's disclosure is significant. Specifically because, as I told another LEO in another thread, you guys are, by definition, immune from all of this. These kinds of things simply do not happen to you as they happen to the rest of us. I don't think you can appreciate the scene here. And I don't think you can assume that LE is always right. Clearly here they were not, even in their original premise (water being beer).

I'm sorry to say this but if you believe seven guys jumping on the hood, drawing weapons and smashing windows because a grocery bag might have beer in it is a reasonable approach, then you need to be restrained too. For the good of everybody.

You have not read my posts regarding the practice and procedure of the ABC agents.

Also, before I became a LEO I had a similar suit against NYPD and won.....so best not to judge me without all the facts.

I don't judge you my friend, I hope I don't, and I have read your prior posts. I just think you might lack some perspective, because your position doesn't make sense any other way. Citizens must have some rights, some shred of dignity to hold on to. Awarding absolute power that is never questioned is simply not a wise path. Thank you for this exchange.

You did judge me, "you guys are, by definition, immune from all of this"...."I don't think you can appreciate the scene here". I had a line of duty injury which ended my my time as a LEO and went a different route after being a cop. I have experienced lousy cops and more crap after I stopped being a cop. No one is immune from jerks with or without badges.

There is no absolute power...that is a fallacy in my experience. People need to use the proper venue when they are feel they have been wronged or in this case an abuse of power. I know more cops and lawyers who have had to answer for their untoward/inappropriate/abusive actions than I can tell you. The problem with the ABC, at first glance, is they need to revamp their practices and procedures. The woman needs to get a grip on reality.

 

[whitehall]

Renegade factions of state and federal police face budget cuts just like you and me. Be very afraid when they are desperate enough for a big score (or a little one). They forget everything they ever learned (if anything) about Constitutional law and police procedure. Randy Weaver's wife would tell you the same thing if she hadn't been shot in the face by an FBI sniper while she was holding a 18th month old baby in her arms and David Koresch would have surrendered at any local 7-11 if he wasn't killed in a botched ATF raid. Hundreds of Mexican citizens would be alive today if the completely insane and unworkable "operation fast/furious" wasn't authorized by the Attorney General.

 

[Pogo]

You have not read my posts regarding the practice and procedure of the ABC agents.

Also, before I became a LEO I had a similar suit against NYPD and won.....so best not to judge me without all the facts.

I don't judge you my friend, I hope I don't, and I have read your prior posts. I just think you might lack some perspective, because your position doesn't make sense any other way. Citizens must have some rights, some shred of dignity to hold on to. Awarding absolute power that is never questioned is simply not a wise path. Thank you for this exchange.

You did judge me, "you guys are, by definition, immune from all of this"...."I don't think you can appreciate the scene here". I had a line of duty injury which ended my my time as a LEO and went a different route after being a cop. I have experienced lousy cops and more crap after I stopped being a cop. No one is immune from jerks with or without badges.

There is no absolute power...that is a fallacy in my experience. People need to use the proper venue when they are feel they have been wronged or in this case an abuse of power. I know more cops and lawyers who have had to answer for their untoward/inappropriate/abusive actions than I can tell you. The problem with the ABC, at first glance, is they need to revamp their practices and procedures. The woman needs to get a grip on reality.

That's not a "judgement"; it's a definition. You're immune because it's a situation that cannot happen to you as it can to the rest of us. That's not a good or bad thing; it just means you're not in a position to see it from our angle.

And as far as a grip on reality, if that were my wife or daughter or sister, I'd want her to do exactly what this woman did -- put distance between herself and the threat, and immediately call 911. That's what she did. None of which is what you do if you're running from actual police. The fact that we can literally Monday morning quarterback and see in retrospect that they were legitimate is irrelevant to the moment when seven guys are jumping on and attacking a young woman's car - with GUNS-- in the dark, for no apparent good reason.

I've been jumped (as a pedestrian) by guys with guns too. To this day I can only assume they must have been some kind of police, since they had handcuffs and a police radio in their unmarked car. But they never told me jack squat about who they might be or what their authority was, other than the guns pointed at me. If I had been armed that night I wouldn't be here to post; I'd be a statistic. And since I was alone I doubt the official report would reflect what would have actually happened. My crime? I was walking home from work. That's it.

Now who would I go to to file a complaint? I don't even know who the hell they worked for.

 

[Connery]

I don't judge you my friend, I hope I don't, and I have read your prior posts. I just think you might lack some perspective, because your position doesn't make sense any other way. Citizens must have some rights, some shred of dignity to hold on to. Awarding absolute power that is never questioned is simply not a wise path. Thank you for this exchange.

You did judge me, "you guys are, by definition, immune from all of this"...."I don't think you can appreciate the scene here". I had a line of duty injury which ended my my time as a LEO and went a different route after being a cop. I have experienced lousy cops and more crap after I stopped being a cop. No one is immune from jerks with or without badges.

There is no absolute power...that is a fallacy in my experience. People need to use the proper venue when they are feel they have been wronged or in this case an abuse of power. I know more cops and lawyers who have had to answer for their untoward/inappropriate/abusive actions than I can tell you. The problem with the ABC, at first glance, is they need to revamp their practices and procedures. The woman needs to get a grip on reality.

That's not a "judgement"; it's a definition. You're immune because it's a situation that cannot happen to you as it can to the rest of us. That's not a good or bad thing; it just means you're not in a position to see it from our angle.

And as far as a grip on reality, if that were my wife or daughter or sister, I'd want her to do exactly what this woman did -- put distance between herself and the threat, and immediately call 911. That's what she did. None of which is what you do if you're running from actual police. The fact that we can literally Monday morning quarterback and see in retrospect that they were legitimate is irrelevant to the moment when seven guys are jumping on and attacking a young woman's car - with GUNS-- in the dark, for no apparent good reason.

I've been jumped (as a pedestrian) by guys with guns too. To this day I can only assume they must have been some kind of police, since they had handcuffs and a police radio in their unmarked car. But they never told me jack squat about who they might be or what their authority was, other than the guns pointed at me. If I had been armed that night I wouldn't be here to post; I'd be a statistic. And since I was alone I doubt the official report would reflect what would have actually happened. My crime? I was walking home from work. That's it.

Now who would I go to to file a complaint? I don't even know who the hell they worked for.

That is the point...knowing. Every person who is in the US should do some research and find how to protect their interests. There is no immunity because a person is a LEO. We all have our own responsibility here. Some people say there is too much government then cry when they have not done even a cursory research on what to do if a state/government employee acts out of line and who to contact. If this woman was in fear for her life that may be a mitigating circumstance, otherwise she is full of baloney and could have been charged. This is a ridiculous situation for which the media has done a great job in manipulating the public.

 

[Pogo]

You did judge me, "you guys are, by definition, immune from all of this"...."I don't think you can appreciate the scene here". I had a line of duty injury which ended my my time as a LEO and went a different route after being a cop. I have experienced lousy cops and more crap after I stopped being a cop. No one is immune from jerks with or without badges.

There is no absolute power...that is a fallacy in my experience. People need to use the proper venue when they are feel they have been wronged or in this case an abuse of power. I know more cops and lawyers who have had to answer for their untoward/inappropriate/abusive actions than I can tell you. The problem with the ABC, at first glance, is they need to revamp their practices and procedures. The woman needs to get a grip on reality.

That's not a "judgement"; it's a definition. You're immune because it's a situation that cannot happen to you as it can to the rest of us. That's not a good or bad thing; it just means you're not in a position to see it from our angle.

And as far as a grip on reality, if that were my wife or daughter or sister, I'd want her to do exactly what this woman did -- put distance between herself and the threat, and immediately call 911. That's what she did. None of which is what you do if you're running from actual police. The fact that we can literally Monday morning quarterback and see in retrospect that they were legitimate is irrelevant to the moment when seven guys are jumping on and attacking a young woman's car - with GUNS-- in the dark, for no apparent good reason.

I've been jumped (as a pedestrian) by guys with guns too. To this day I can only assume they must have been some kind of police, since they had handcuffs and a police radio in their unmarked car. But they never told me jack squat about who they might be or what their authority was, other than the guns pointed at me. If I had been armed that night I wouldn't be here to post; I'd be a statistic. And since I was alone I doubt the official report would reflect what would have actually happened. My crime? I was walking home from work. That's it.

Now who would I go to to file a complaint? I don't even know who the hell they worked for.

That is the point...knowing. Every person who is in the US should do some research and find how to protect their interests. There is no immunity because a person is a LEO. We all have our own responsibility here. Some people say there is too much government then cry when they have not done even a cursory research on what to do if a state/government employee acts out of line and who to contact. If this woman was in fear for her life that may be a mitigating circumstance, otherwise she is full of baloney and could have been charged. This is a ridiculous situation for which the media has done a great job in manipulating the public.

And this is my point -- you can't know who they even are, let alone that they're legitimate -- when they don't identify themselves! Again Connery -- who the hell would I go to about my incident? Who the hell were they? I don't know to this day. I've got no badge, no uniform, no car number, no nothing. IOW no way to prove the incident happened at all. The only reason I had to comply with them at all is that they had guns pointed at me. If I run, I'm dead. That's not law enforcement -- that's thuggery.

 

[SteadyMercury]

UVA student jailed for possession of bottled water, ice cream

They charged Daly with three felonies: one count of eluding police and two counts of assaulting a law enforcement officer.

Your thread title doesn't match what is in your post.

 

[Montrovant]

I have to agree with an earlier poster that this seems like a superfluous agency. ABC? If I saw a badge with ABC on it, I wouldn't have any idea that they are a real law enforcement agency. It sounds like a joke, really. A legal substance needs an entirely separate branch of law enforcement to regulate it?

As far as the events that took place, obviously I'd like to hear more detail, but it sounds pretty damned ridiculous. As Pogo has said, I cannot see a reason for 7 agents to be involved with what was believed to be the purchase of a single 12-pack of beer. Unless there was some kind of criminal alcohol-related organization these girls were suspected of being a part of, what the hell are the 7 officers needed for? It's ludicrous.

It could be that the victim's story is b.s., but I just can't wrap my head around why the ABC officers would have gotten things to that point in the first place.

 

[Pogo]

UVA student jailed for possession of bottled water, ice cream

They charged Daly with three felonies: one count of eluding police and two counts of assaulting a law enforcement officer.

Your thread title doesn't match what is in your post.

The thread title is fine; it's descriptive of the incident. A headline is not to be taken to literally mean that the charge was possessing water and ice cream.

Would you have clicked into a thread called "UVA student jailed for eluding police and assaulting a law enforcement officer"? OK then. The point is that the incident is outrageous and you're supposed to read in to find out how it could happen that someone could be jailed for buying water. And in a sense, it is a causal relationship; if she doesn't buy the water, then (presumably) the SWAT team doesn't swarm the car. We would hope.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Virginia ABC Special Agents are sworn police officers with full law enforcement authority.

About ABC

I don't think anybody's got authority when they don't bother to identify themselves as such.

It is the state that gives the authority in this situation and according to the Daly they did identify themselves.

She panicked and hit them with her car..

According to the people who dropped the charges and apologized the girls version of events is entirely consistent with the facts. That means they did not identify themselves properly, which means they got off easy, the girl should have gunned them down in self defense.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

All charges were dropped.... non-issue other than her starting her car when approach by police, hitting two officers with her car, and running from law enforcement officers.

Spending the night in jail is not a non issue. As for her trying to get away, let us imagine you had a daughter and some assholes tried to jump her in a parking lot. Would you expect her to a) let them kidnap and rape her, or b) get the fuck out of there using whatever force is necessary to protect herself?

She saw their badges. I would want my daughter to respect the law enforcement officers.

You can buy badges on eBay.

Historical Police Badges that are Obsolete | eBay

Badges are not identification.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Did the officers clearly identify themselves is the only relevant question here that needs to be answered.

Good point. They wore plain clothes so their intent was to hide their identity.

Now, could the police adequately identify themselves to people who were afraid and trying to escape attack? I think not.

Any idiot can get a fake badge and say they're a cop

You can get real badges all over the place, it is perfectly legal. It is only illegal if you try to pretend you are a cop, but I doubt the fact that it is illegal would stop a rapist from using one.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I do, nevertheless, based on the facts presented the woman saw the badges and sought to escape anyway. When everything is reduced to facts, all parties are at fault here. Leave the media out and we have an individual who had the shit scared out of her by the rape seminar she just left, an aggressive team of ABC agents and a great deal of miscommunication and possible abuse of authority. As I stated previously this agency needs to revamp their policies and procedures. That does not dismiss the woman's overreaction to the situation and using her car to hit the agents. While she did not recognize the badges that were shown to her that does not excuse her behavior.

I still don't see it. If the woman had seen the badge and realized they were legitimate police, and the package contained water (which it did), then what reason would there be to run? Doesn't add up. The only explanation is that she did not have that impression, so she did what law enforcement tells women they are supposed to do when approached by strange people in the dark -- get away from the aggressor and call police. That is not overreaction. It would be suicidal to react any other way.

And yes, not being able to verify the badges -- if they showed them at all, which (a) I have significant doubts about and (b) it was described as very dark-- it does excuse her behavior. She did exactly what she's supposed to do to protect herself given the information available at the moment. Those guys could have been any kind of gang in the dark, and the idea of a seven-member SWAT team swarming a car, smashing windows, drawing guns and jumping on the hood on suspicion of beer is simply NOT behaviour that would imply any kind of legitimate police.

Damn right she did the right thing, and if she didn't do what she did in any similar situation we'd likely be reading about where her body parts were dug up. When the police are acting like thugs ladies and gentlemen, we have ourselves a problem. And it's not with us.

The sense? It is called obeying a lawful order. After which she could have filed a complaint with the authorities. As it is she took the law into her own hands based upon her irrational fears. A LEO showed a badge and she claims she did not recognize it ... and penitentiaries are filled with inmates who claim they are innocent . Based upon your rationale we should set them free.

I am no longer in the military, there is no one that can give me lawful orders.

 

[Jarlaxle]

All charges were dropped.... non-issue other than her starting her car when approach by police, hitting two officers with her car, and running from law enforcement officers.

Spending the night in jail is not a non issue. As for her trying to get away, let us imagine you had a daughter and some assholes tried to jump her in a parking lot. Would you expect her to a) let them kidnap and rape her, or b) get the fuck out of there using whatever force is necessary to protect herself?

She saw their badges. I would want my daughter to respect the law enforcement officers.

I can buy badges on eBay...and so can any rapist!

 

[Jarlaxle]

My friend, I'm telling you, and I'm telling you from direct experience, LEOs are notoriously shaky about properly identifying themselves. AND it was described as very dark.

Again, what reason would a grocery shopper wielding water have for running from legitimate police? And keep in mind, "legitimate" here means what could be determined in the moment.

Now if beer were such a scourge on humanity that seven people jumping a car in the dark would be some kind of normal event, then it might be more plausible in the moment that they really were police, and this would not be a story at all and this thread would not exist.

This notion that police are some kind of super race who are always right has got to go. They're human. Any time we award authority, that authority has to have some restraint against abuse. This was clearly abuse.

I never was, I always Identified myself. She could have done any number of things. The practice and procedure of ABC needs to be revamped. Now if these ABCs were the goon squad they are portrayed to be they would have shot that car up as she used it to get away in the process making it a deadly weapon because it did come into contact with the ABC officers.

If I had anymore Oscars to hand out I would send one to this woman, but I have given all to those I have apprehended who made various outrageous claims such as hers....

Ah, until now I did not have the info that you are/were a LEO. That's disclosure is significant. Specifically because, as I told another LEO in another thread, you guys are, by definition, immune from all of this. These kinds of things simply do not happen to you as they happen to the rest of us. I don't think you can appreciate the scene here. And I don't think you can assume that LE is always right. Clearly here they were not, even in their original premise (water being beer).

I'm sorry to say this but if you believe seven guys jumping on the hood, drawing weapons and smashing windows because a grocery bag might have beer in it is a reasonable approach, then you need to be restrained too. For the good of everybody.

Annyone who believes it is reasonable needs to be institutionalized immediately!

The most dangerous street gang in the country is the police.