UVA student jailed for possession of bottled water, ice cream

[Jarlaxle]

You did judge me, "you guys are, by definition, immune from all of this"...."I don't think you can appreciate the scene here". I had a line of duty injury which ended my my time as a LEO and went a different route after being a cop. I have experienced lousy cops and more crap after I stopped being a cop. No one is immune from jerks with or without badges.

There is no absolute power...that is a fallacy in my experience. People need to use the proper venue when they are feel they have been wronged or in this case an abuse of power. I know more cops and lawyers who have had to answer for their untoward/inappropriate/abusive actions than I can tell you. The problem with the ABC, at first glance, is they need to revamp their practices and procedures. The woman needs to get a grip on reality.

That's not a "judgement"; it's a definition. You're immune because it's a situation that cannot happen to you as it can to the rest of us. That's not a good or bad thing; it just means you're not in a position to see it from our angle.

And as far as a grip on reality, if that were my wife or daughter or sister, I'd want her to do exactly what this woman did -- put distance between herself and the threat, and immediately call 911. That's what she did. None of which is what you do if you're running from actual police. The fact that we can literally Monday morning quarterback and see in retrospect that they were legitimate is irrelevant to the moment when seven guys are jumping on and attacking a young woman's car - with GUNS-- in the dark, for no apparent good reason.

I've been jumped (as a pedestrian) by guys with guns too. To this day I can only assume they must have been some kind of police, since they had handcuffs and a police radio in their unmarked car. But they never told me jack squat about who they might be or what their authority was, other than the guns pointed at me. If I had been armed that night I wouldn't be here to post; I'd be a statistic. And since I was alone I doubt the official report would reflect what would have actually happened. My crime? I was walking home from work. That's it.

Now who would I go to to file a complaint? I don't even know who the hell they worked for.

That is the point...knowing. Every person who is in the US should do some research and find how to protect their interests. There is no immunity because a person is a LEO.

Pablum. The Blue Wall Of Silence is alive and well and anyone HONEST would admit it! Cops are every bit as protective of their own as any Mafia or gangbangers, and reporting a bad one can be just as dangerous!

 

[JWBooth]

My friend, I'm telling you, and I'm telling you from direct experience, LEOs are notoriously shaky about properly identifying themselves. AND it was described as very dark.

Again, what reason would a grocery shopper wielding water have for running from legitimate police? And keep in mind, "legitimate" here means what could be determined in the moment.

Now if beer were such a scourge on humanity that seven people jumping a car in the dark would be some kind of normal event, then it might be more plausible in the moment that they really were police, and this would not be a story at all and this thread would not exist.

This notion that police are some kind of super race who are always right has got to go. They're human. Any time we award authority, that authority has to have some restraint against abuse. This was clearly abuse.

I never was, I always Identified myself. She could have done any number of things. The practice and procedure of ABC needs to be revamped. Now if these ABCs were the goon squad they are portrayed to be they would have shot that car up as she used it to get away in the process making it a deadly weapon because it did come into contact with the ABC officers.

If I had anymore Oscars to hand out I would send one to this woman, but I have given all to those I have apprehended who made various outrageous claims such as hers....

You've raised a good point that they did not, say, shoot the tires. It immediately occurs to me that they might have refrained from that because they already knew their act was excessive, that they had unnecessarily escalated the event, and because it may have dawned on them that endangering lives with firearm discharge over nothing more than a suspicion of a package containing beer might be over the line.

I'm trying to see the positive here --- that there is a "line" at all.

Shooting at tires is a stupid movie stunt. Those rounds dont stop when they strike asphalt. Whatever and whoever is down range is in more danger than the tires.

 

[Politico]

UVA student jailed for possession of bottled water, ice cream

No she wasn't.

 

[Connery]

That's not a "judgement"; it's a definition. You're immune because it's a situation that cannot happen to you as it can to the rest of us. That's not a good or bad thing; it just means you're not in a position to see it from our angle.

And as far as a grip on reality, if that were my wife or daughter or sister, I'd want her to do exactly what this woman did -- put distance between herself and the threat, and immediately call 911. That's what she did. None of which is what you do if you're running from actual police. The fact that we can literally Monday morning quarterback and see in retrospect that they were legitimate is irrelevant to the moment when seven guys are jumping on and attacking a young woman's car - with GUNS-- in the dark, for no apparent good reason.

I've been jumped (as a pedestrian) by guys with guns too. To this day I can only assume they must have been some kind of police, since they had handcuffs and a police radio in their unmarked car. But they never told me jack squat about who they might be or what their authority was, other than the guns pointed at me. If I had been armed that night I wouldn't be here to post; I'd be a statistic. And since I was alone I doubt the official report would reflect what would have actually happened. My crime? I was walking home from work. That's it.

Now who would I go to to file a complaint? I don't even know who the hell they worked for.

That is the point...knowing. Every person who is in the US should do some research and find how to protect their interests. There is no immunity because a person is a LEO.

Pablum. The Blue Wall Of Silence is alive and well and anyone HONEST would admit it! Cops are every bit as protective of their own as any Mafia or gangbangers, and reporting a bad one can be just as dangerous!

Have you reported a LEO? What was the procedure by which you did, who did you report the incident to and what was the outcome?

 

[Connery]

I still don't see it. If the woman had seen the badge and realized they were legitimate police, and the package contained water (which it did), then what reason would there be to run? Doesn't add up. The only explanation is that she did not have that impression, so she did what law enforcement tells women they are supposed to do when approached by strange people in the dark -- get away from the aggressor and call police. That is not overreaction. It would be suicidal to react any other way.

And yes, not being able to verify the badges -- if they showed them at all, which (a) I have significant doubts about and (b) it was described as very dark-- it does excuse her behavior. She did exactly what she's supposed to do to protect herself given the information available at the moment. Those guys could have been any kind of gang in the dark, and the idea of a seven-member SWAT team swarming a car, smashing windows, drawing guns and jumping on the hood on suspicion of beer is simply NOT behaviour that would imply any kind of legitimate police.

Damn right she did the right thing, and if she didn't do what she did in any similar situation we'd likely be reading about where her body parts were dug up. When the police are acting like thugs ladies and gentlemen, we have ourselves a problem. And it's not with us.

The sense? It is called obeying a lawful order. After which she could have filed a complaint with the authorities. As it is she took the law into her own hands based upon her irrational fears. A LEO showed a badge and she claims she did not recognize it ... and penitentiaries are filled with inmates who claim they are innocent . Based upon your rationale we should set them free.

I am no longer in the military, there is no one that can give me lawful orders.

The police can.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The sense? It is called obeying a lawful order. After which she could have filed a complaint with the authorities. As it is she took the law into her own hands based upon her irrational fears. A LEO showed a badge and she claims she did not recognize it ... and penitentiaries are filled with inmates who claim they are innocent . Based upon your rationale we should set them free.

I am no longer in the military, there is no one that can give me lawful orders.

The police can.

Actually, they can't, we are not in East Germany.

 

[Jarlaxle]

That is the point...knowing. Every person who is in the US should do some research and find how to protect their interests. There is no immunity because a person is a LEO.

Pablum. The Blue Wall Of Silence is alive and well and anyone HONEST would admit it! Cops are every bit as protective of their own as any Mafia or gangbangers, and reporting a bad one can be just as dangerous!

Have you reported a LEO? What was the procedure by which you did, who did you report the incident to and what was the outcome?

HELL NO! I watched what happened to someone who did and would never even dream of doing so! He made the horrible mistake of reporting a bent cop to his superiors...at which point his life became hell. He was harassed, his wife was harassed, and his children were threatened. That day, he uprooted his family, walked away from his house, and moved to Oregon. He now lives in Vancouver and refuses to ever return to the United States. Unless I could do it completely anonymously and through the FBI, I would never even consider it.

 

[Connery]

I am no longer in the military, there is no one that can give me lawful orders.

The police can.

Actually, they can't, we are not in East Germany.

Actually, they can for example,

" Ohio Revised Code
» Title [29] XXIX CRIMES - PROCEDURE
» Chapter 2921: OFFENSES AGAINST JUSTICE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION

2921.331 Failure to comply with order or signal of police officer.(A) No person shall fail to comply with any lawful order ...of any police officer...."

ORC - 2921.331 Failure to comply with order or signal of police officer.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The police can.

Actually, they can't, we are not in East Germany.

Actually, they can for example,

" Ohio Revised Code
» Title [29] XXIX CRIMES - PROCEDURE
» Chapter 2921: OFFENSES AGAINST JUSTICE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION

2921.331 Failure to comply with order or signal of police officer.(A) No person shall fail to comply with any lawful order ...of any police officer...."

ORC - 2921.331 Failure to comply with order or signal of police officer.

I love the way you edit the law to make your point.

No person shall fail to comply with any lawful order or direction of any police officer invested with authority to direct, control, or regulate traffic.

It looks to me like the only time police can issue orders is if they are directing traffic. Feel free to prove me wrong by posting something that proves me right.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The police can.

Actually, they can't, we are not in East Germany.

Actually, they can for example,

" Ohio Revised Code
» Title [29] XXIX CRIMES - PROCEDURE
» Chapter 2921: OFFENSES AGAINST JUSTICE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION

2921.331 Failure to comply with order or signal of police officer.(A) No person shall fail to comply with any lawful order ...of any police officer...."

ORC - 2921.331 Failure to comply with order or signal of police officer.

OK, but how can you tell a lawful order from a bunch of crap?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Actually, they can't, we are not in East Germany.

Actually, they can for example,

" Ohio Revised Code
» Title [29] XXIX CRIMES - PROCEDURE
» Chapter 2921: OFFENSES AGAINST JUSTICE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION

2921.331 Failure to comply with order or signal of police officer.(A) No person shall fail to comply with any lawful order ...of any police officer...."

ORC - 2921.331 Failure to comply with order or signal of police officer.

OK, but how can you tell a lawful order from a bunch of crap?

Basically, if he is not in the middle of the street directing traffic he is full of crap.

 

[Connery]

Actually, they can for example,

" Ohio Revised Code
» Title [29] XXIX CRIMES - PROCEDURE
» Chapter 2921: OFFENSES AGAINST JUSTICE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION

2921.331 Failure to comply with order or signal of police officer.(A) No person shall fail to comply with any lawful order ...of any police officer...."

ORC - 2921.331 Failure to comply with order or signal of police officer.

OK, but how can you tell a lawful order from a bunch of crap?

Basically, if he is not in the middle of the street directing traffic he is full of crap.

This statute was by way of example no more no less, it showed your statement to be not worth the bag of wind it was expelled from....

In this instance the law is the law and lawful order can be given by the police. Not only in the military or Germany as you attempted to establish.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

OK, but how can you tell a lawful order from a bunch of crap?

Basically, if he is not in the middle of the street directing traffic he is full of crap.

This statute was by way of example no more no less, it showed your statement to be not worth the bag of wind it was expelled from....

In this instance the law is the law and lawful order can be given by the police. Not only in the military or Germany as you attempted to establish.

Like I said, post a link to prove me wrong, not a law where a cop is pretending to be a stoplight.

 

[Connery]

Basically, if he is not in the middle of the street directing traffic he is full of crap.

This statute was by way of example no more no less, it showed your statement to be not worth the bag of wind it was expelled from....

In this instance the law is the law and lawful order can be given by the police. Not only in the military or Germany as you attempted to establish.

Like I said, post a link to prove me wrong, not a law where a cop is pretending to be a stoplight.

I posted the law, you refuse to accept reality. Stay sweet...

 

[auditor0007]

A University of Virginia student spent a night and good part of the next day in jail after seven plain-clothes agents from the state’s Alcoholic Beverage Control division ambushed her.

The student, 20-year-old Elizabeth Daly, made the mistake of walking to her car with bottled water, cookie dough and ice cream in a dark supermarket parking lot near the UVA campus, reports The Daily Progress.

Daly, along with two roommates who were in the car, did what reasonable, unarmed people usually do when violently pounced upon by seven people. They tried to get away.

The seven Alcoholic Beverage Control agents were not satisfied. They charged Daly with three felonies: one count of eluding police and two counts of assaulting a law enforcement officer. In Virginia, each of these Class Six felonies carries up to five years in prison and up to $2,500 in fines.

UVA student jailed for possession of bottled water, ice cream

Another case of cops gone nuts. They should all get fired.

Sounds to me like they need a good attorney to sue the pants off of these agents.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This statute was by way of example no more no less, it showed your statement to be not worth the bag of wind it was expelled from....

In this instance the law is the law and lawful order can be given by the police. Not only in the military or Germany as you attempted to establish.

Like I said, post a link to prove me wrong, not a law where a cop is pretending to be a stoplight.

I posted the law, you refuse to accept reality. Stay sweet...

You posted an edited version of the law that says that s cop directing traffic trumps the otherwise visible signals and signs in the area.

 

[Connery]

Like I said, post a link to prove me wrong, not a law where a cop is pretending to be a stoplight.

I posted the law, you refuse to accept reality. Stay sweet...

You posted an edited version of the law that says that s cop directing traffic trumps the otherwise visible signals and signs in the area.

I posted the law...you are blowing smoke.