VA Beach Munc Cntr Shooting: 11 Killed by Emp

[miketx]

Clearly, the answer to this is more guns.

Thank god for guns.

Praise Jeebus.

What was the black shooters muslim name?

 

[NoNukes]

The gun was despondent over being fired

Good news...no guns were harmed in this minor incident.

If only Hillary were President, she'd disarm all law abiding Americans

This guy in Virginia was probably a law abiding citizen until...

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

he was a black guy to
guns are mostly black
coincidence ?i think not
the white supremacist gun grabbers on the thread are all nazi racist hate mongers

View attachment 263384

‘Carson said that under the Nazis, "German citizens were disarmed by their government in the late 1930s," which allowed the Nazis to "carry out their evil intentions with relatively little resistance."

This is a misreading of history on two levels. First, German citizens as a whole were not disarmed by the Nazis. Jews and other supposed enemies of the state were subject to having their weapons seized. But for most German citizens, the Nazi period was one in which gun regulations were loosened, not tightened.

Second, a lack of guns was not the issue. If the majority of Germans had wanted to use these guns to fight the Nazis, they could have. But they didn’t. Carson ignores that the Nazis enjoyed significant popular support, or at least, broad acquiescence.

We rate this claim False.’

Fact-checking Ben Carson's claim that gun control laws allowed the Nazis to carry out Holocaust

It comes as no surprise, of course, that conservatives continue to propagate this lie.

 

[JoeB131]

No.......if you know where to buy drugs....in any American town or city....you have a pipeline to illegal guns......and you don't have to be a terrorist to get them.

Yes, we have a pipeline for illegal guns... That pipeline starts with Smith and Wesson, Colt, Bushmaster, and all the other gun manufacturers who openly encourage their products be sold to bad people so guys like want them, too. I'm sorry you are confused on this point.

 

[2aguy]

he was a black guy to
guns are mostly black
coincidence ?i think not
the white supremacist gun grabbers on the thread are all nazi racist hate mongers

View attachment 263384

‘Carson said that under the Nazis, "German citizens were disarmed by their government in the late 1930s," which allowed the Nazis to "carry out their evil intentions with relatively little resistance."

This is a misreading of history on two levels. First, German citizens as a whole were not disarmed by the Nazis. Jews and other supposed enemies of the state were subject to having their weapons seized. But for most German citizens, the Nazi period was one in which gun regulations were loosened, not tightened.

Second, a lack of guns was not the issue. If the majority of Germans had wanted to use these guns to fight the Nazis, they could have. But they didn’t. Carson ignores that the Nazis enjoyed significant popular support, or at least, broad acquiescence.

We rate this claim False.’

Fact-checking Ben Carson's claim that gun control laws allowed the Nazis to carry out Holocaust

It comes as no surprise, of course, that conservatives continue to propagate this lie.

You know that fact checking is wrong...right? They even admit that the Germans disarmed those groups they saw as enemies...it isn't the groups that support the murderous regime that are disarmed you dope....even in Rwanda, when they supplied machetes to the one group to slaughter the other group, the government provided the machetes......and 1 million people were slaughtered....

The fact you guys ignore is that the German people were disarmed.....which meant that when the nazis went around and beat the crap out of anyone who opposed them......before they took control....got the crap beaten out of them because the cops supported the nazis and no one had a gun to stop the beating.....so the population that didn't support the nazis was cowed and afraid long before hitler seized power....that is the dynamic you morons don't want to understand...

Currently, here, in the U.S......left wing asshats like you are attacking Trump supporters and conservatives.....often with fists......the fact that you can't do that in general, because we have guns in this country, keeps you from completely silencing opposition to your insanity....the Germans were disarmed, except for those groups who supported the already violent national socialists...

 

[miketx]

No.......if you know where to buy drugs....in any American town or city....you have a pipeline to illegal guns......and you don't have to be a terrorist to get them.

Yes, we have a pipeline for illegal guns... That pipeline starts with Smith and Wesson, Colt, Bushmaster, and all the other gun manufacturers who openly encourage their products be sold to bad people so guys like want them, too. I'm sorry you are confused on this point.

Liar.

 

[westwall]

he was a black guy to
guns are mostly black
coincidence ?i think not
the white supremacist gun grabbers on the thread are all nazi racist hate mongers

View attachment 263384

‘Carson said that under the Nazis, "German citizens were disarmed by their government in the late 1930s," which allowed the Nazis to "carry out their evil intentions with relatively little resistance."

This is a misreading of history on two levels. First, German citizens as a whole were not disarmed by the Nazis. Jews and other supposed enemies of the state were subject to having their weapons seized. But for most German citizens, the Nazi period was one in which gun regulations were loosened, not tightened.

Second, a lack of guns was not the issue. If the majority of Germans had wanted to use these guns to fight the Nazis, they could have. But they didn’t. Carson ignores that the Nazis enjoyed significant popular support, or at least, broad acquiescence.

We rate this claim False.’

Fact-checking Ben Carson's claim that gun control laws allowed the Nazis to carry out Holocaust

It comes as no surprise, of course, that conservatives continue to propagate this lie.

And your source is proven false many times over. The NAZI Party members were the the only civilians who could get guns without major effort. Everyone else was prohibited from even possessing a bayonet. I suggest you read a REAL source, this is the definitive historical study on how the Nazi's did what they did.

But only read it if you actually want to learn what really happened and not the propaganda bullshit you spew.

The Nazi Seizure of Power: The Experience of a Single German Town, 1922-1945
https://www.amazon.com/Nazi-Seizure-Power-Experience-1922-1945/dp/1626548722&tag=ff0d01-20

 

[2aguy]

No.......if you know where to buy drugs....in any American town or city....you have a pipeline to illegal guns......and you don't have to be a terrorist to get them.

Yes, we have a pipeline for illegal guns... That pipeline starts with Smith and Wesson, Colt, Bushmaster, and all the other gun manufacturers who openly encourage their products be sold to bad people so guys like want them, too. I'm sorry you are confused on this point.

Nope.....as more Americans own and carry guns our gun murder rate has gone down, not up.....which blows the crap out of your theory......our gun crime rate has gone down as more Americans own and carry guns....blowing another hole in your theory...a huge, .44 caliber hole in your theory......the fact that gun free zones make up 90% or more of the targets of mass public shooters blows another hole in your theory, as does the fact that when normal people have their legal guns during a mass public shooting, they are 94% effective at stopping the attacker....this from actual research........another huge hole is blown in your theory...

You only have emotion and hate, you don't have facts, truth or reality....

Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[2aguy]

he was a black guy to
guns are mostly black
coincidence ?i think not
the white supremacist gun grabbers on the thread are all nazi racist hate mongers

View attachment 263384

‘Carson said that under the Nazis, "German citizens were disarmed by their government in the late 1930s," which allowed the Nazis to "carry out their evil intentions with relatively little resistance."

This is a misreading of history on two levels. First, German citizens as a whole were not disarmed by the Nazis. Jews and other supposed enemies of the state were subject to having their weapons seized. But for most German citizens, the Nazi period was one in which gun regulations were loosened, not tightened.

Second, a lack of guns was not the issue. If the majority of Germans had wanted to use these guns to fight the Nazis, they could have. But they didn’t. Carson ignores that the Nazis enjoyed significant popular support, or at least, broad acquiescence.

We rate this claim False.’

Fact-checking Ben Carson's claim that gun control laws allowed the Nazis to carry out Holocaust

It comes as no surprise, of course, that conservatives continue to propagate this lie.

And your source is proven false many times over. The NAZI Party members were the the only civilians who could get guns without major effort. Everyone else was prohibited from even possessing a bayonet. I suggest you read a REAL source, this is the definitive historical study on how the Nazi's did what they did.

But only read it if you actually want to learn what really happened and not the propaganda bullshit you spew.

The Nazi Seizure of Power: The Experience of a Single German Town, 1922-1945
https://www.amazon.com/Nazi-Seizure-Power-Experience-1922-1945/dp/1626548722&tag=ff0d01-20

Clayton would be funny if he wasn't so dumb...and dangerous when there are so many other dumb people who believe the things he believes....

 

[2aguy]

Virginia Beach bans employees from carrying guns at work......you anti-gun mopes....

Another mass public shooting, another place where the victims were banned from carrying guns, the attack at Virginia Beach - Crime Prevention Research Center

Here is something that people might want to consider. Virginia Beach bans employees from being able to carry guns. In addition, while it was indeed possible for a civilian to enter the “Operations Building” where the attack occurred, the “Operations Building,” as its name suggests, was a building where virtually only employees would be in.

 

[2aguy]

From current police conference:

An employee entered the building and killed 11, 6 others injured, conditions unknown.
Shooter dead also.

Shooter at VB Municipal Center in custody; Multiple people shot, including officer | WAVY.com

HoHum. Another mass shooting. Just move on, it does not matter. You get to keep your guns.

Actually, if one of them had one, then maybe they could have protected themselves...

Stupid reply. More guns is not the answer. Americans cannot be trusted with owning guns.

hmmm

600,000,000 firearms in the hands of the civilian populace...

30,000 deaths a year, give or take.

sounds to me like a large majority of Americans can be trusted.

30 thousand deaths? How pathetic are you?

Wrong.......

Gun murder 2017

10,982

Gun suicide 20188

23,854

Gun suicide does not count...since Japan, with absolute gun control, has a higher suicide rate than we do, as do many countries in Europe and Canada...

 

[2aguy]

Stopped by an officer with a gun.

11 dead, 6 injured after mass shooting in Virginia Beach

'Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people.

Exactly. And, when you disarm the targets, it leads to shit like this. Fortunately a cop who is still allowed to carry a gun, hmm, amazing how that works out, stopped the bad guy. Just imagine if one of the victims had been allowed to defend their self.

Exactly, when poorly trained citizens who are armed and hear gun fire, shoot at other poorly trained citizens are shooting at those who shot at other poorly trained citizens.

You really are a dumb shit, every heard of Friendly Fire by highly trained members of the military?

The more you post, the dumber you seem to be.

Correct.

The notion that ‘armed citizens’ are the ‘remedy’ to mass shootings is ignorant idiocy.

As in alll things, you are wrong...

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

 

[2aguy]

it doesn't matter. A person with a side by side shotgun is every bit as lethal as a guy with a pistol and larger than normal capacity magazines. The difference between the USA and Europe, is we have a very, very large population of third world illegals in our country. They are VIOLENT. Where do they mostly come from? Latin America. Latin America has 8% of the worlds population, but suffer 27% of the worlds murders.

It isn't the gun, it is the culture.

Yes, M-14 Shooter made me see that perhaps it is the larger than normal capacity magazines that make the difference. So ban those instead.

If the large magazines don’t make a difference
Why do mass shooters always choose them over reloading multiple times

Because the movies have told them to. Before the TV show Miami Vice came along the criminal element almost never used machineguns. After that show if you didn't have a machinegun you weren't a very good criminal.

Media has driven the rise in both quality of guns, and the levels of violence. The assholes of the world see the notoriety given them by the media and think "I can do better".

Refuse to publicize the names of the killers and a lot of this crap would stop.

I agree with you the media drives the rise in lethal guns and the levels of violence. Video games and some adventure fiction, too. But I question the "wish to be famous" part of it. These Rambo guys just don't know another way to cope than obscene annihilating violence.

Ask anybody who actually studies the psychology of mass shooters and that is a significant component.

Why would an anti-gunner want to know the actual cause of mass public shootings.....the goal is to ban guns, not fix the problem.....

 

[2aguy]

Yes, M-14 Shooter made me see that perhaps it is the larger than normal capacity magazines that make the difference. So ban those instead.

If the large magazines don’t make a difference
Why do mass shooters always choose them over reloading multiple times

Because the movies have told them to. Before the TV show Miami Vice came along the criminal element almost never used machineguns. After that show if you didn't have a machinegun you weren't a very good criminal.

Media has driven the rise in both quality of guns, and the levels of violence. The assholes of the world see the notoriety given them by the media and think "I can do better".

Refuse to publicize the names of the killers and a lot of this crap would stop.

I agree with you the media drives the rise in lethal guns and the levels of violence. Video games and some adventure fiction, too. But I question the "wish to be famous" part of it. These Rambo guys just don't know another way to cope than obscene annihilating violence.

Ask anybody who actually studies the psychology of mass shooters and that is a significant component.

Just keep in mind that we can only study the psychology of mass shooters who thought enough of themselves to survive. Most of them are quite purposely committing suicide at the same time.

Not true.....almost all of them leave detailed notes, videos and diaries about why they are doing what they are doing, and many even tell friends about it, like the South Carolina church shooter....

 

[2aguy]

From current police conference:

An employee entered the building and killed 11, 6 others injured, conditions unknown.
Shooter dead also.

Shooter at VB Municipal Center in custody; Multiple people shot, including officer | WAVY.com

HoHum. Another mass shooting. Just move on, it does not matter. You get to keep your guns.

Actually, if one of them had one, then maybe they could have protected themselves...

Stupid reply. More guns is not the answer. Americans cannot be trusted with owning guns.

Please...enlighten us....

More guns is not the answer.

If this is accurate, why did the cops use guns to stop the shooter instead of using tasers, pepper spray or batons?

 

[2aguy]

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Let's stick to the point, Guy. A pump action shotgun is slower, and the police would have been able to stop him before as many had been killed, one would hope.

it doesn't matter. A person with a side by side shotgun is every bit as lethal as a guy with a pistol and larger than normal capacity magazines. The difference between the USA and Europe, is we have a very, very large population of third world illegals in our country. They are VIOLENT. Where do they mostly come from? Latin America. Latin America has 8% of the worlds population, but suffer 27% of the worlds murders.

It isn't the gun, it is the culture.

But Westwall, who was the last Hispanic to commit a mass shooting? I'm not following?

Mass shootings are comparatively rare. They get all of the airtime because they are so horrible, and they are tools of the propagandists who wish to disarm us, but they are so rare that you are far more likely to die of somebody hitting you with a hammer. The way to reduce the casualties is eliminate gun free zones, and encourage lawful people to carry concealed.




Number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and February 2019, by shooter's race and ethnicity


U.S.: mass shootings by race 1982-2018 | Statista

Looks like the whites win..

62 out of 110 mass shootings were initiated by White shooters

of the 10,982 gun murders in the U.S........in 2018 there were 93 deaths in mass public shootings, not all of them by whites.....that leaves the majority of the remaining 10,889 gun murders committed by Black criminals murdering other Black criminals and other innocent Blacks in democrat controlled neighborhoods.....

 

[2aguy]

Police have said the suspect was armed with a .45-caliber handgun. Cervera said Saturday that more weapons were found at the scene and at his home, but declined to elaborate.

Craddock, 40, was a professional engineer who had graduated from Denbigh High School in nearby Newport News in 1996 and joined the Army National Guard, according to a newspaper clip from the time. He received basic military training and advanced individual training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. He later graduated from Old Dominion University with a bachelor’s degree in civil engineering. Before going to work in Virginia Beach, he worked for a private engineering firm in Hampton Roads.

Craddock appears to have had no felony record, which would have made him eligible to purchase firearms

Officials ID Virginia Beach gunman as city employee

What "common sense" gun control laws would have prevented this shooting?
How is it possible for this shooting take place in a gun free zone?

Outlawing large capacity magazines might have cut down on the deaths.

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Hard to drive a rental truck through a municipal building

So he drives over them going to their cars......

 

[2aguy]

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Let's stick to the point, Guy. A pump action shotgun is slower, and the police would have been able to stop him before as many had been killed, one would hope.

it doesn't matter. A person with a side by side shotgun is every bit as lethal as a guy with a pistol and larger than normal capacity magazines. The difference between the USA and Europe, is we have a very, very large population of third world illegals in our country. They are VIOLENT. Where do they mostly come from? Latin America. Latin America has 8% of the worlds population, but suffer 27% of the worlds murders.

It isn't the gun, it is the culture.

But Westwall, who was the last Hispanic to commit a mass shooting? I'm not following?

Mass shootings are comparatively rare. They get all of the airtime because they are so horrible, and they are tools of the propagandists who wish to disarm us, but they are so rare that you are far more likely to die of somebody hitting you with a hammer. The way to reduce the casualties is eliminate gun free zones, and encourage lawful people to carry concealed.




Number of mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and February 2019, by shooter's race and ethnicity


U.S.: mass shootings by race 1982-2018 | Statista

They are no longer rare at all.

They are extremely rare.....12 in all of 2018 in a country of over 320 million people with a total of 93 deaths....cars killed over 38,000 people ......that is how rare they are.

 

[2aguy]

Officials ID Virginia Beach gunman as city employee

What "common sense" gun control laws would have prevented this shooting?
How is it possible for this shooting take place in a gun free zone?

Outlawing large capacity magazines might have cut down on the deaths.

He could have killed just as many people with a pump action shotgun....he could have killed way more people if he had used a rental truck, the muslim in France, using a rental truck killed 86 people and wounded 435......

Trucks are deadlier than pistols....

Let's stick to the point, Guy. A pump action shotgun is slower, and the police would have been able to stop him before as many had been killed, one would hope.

it doesn't matter. A person with a side by side shotgun is every bit as lethal as a guy with a pistol and larger than normal capacity magazines. The difference between the USA and Europe, is we have a very, very large population of third world illegals in our country. They are VIOLENT. Where do they mostly come from? Latin America. Latin America has 8% of the worlds population, but suffer 27% of the worlds murders.

It isn't the gun, it is the culture.

But Westwall, who was the last Hispanic to commit a mass shooting? I'm not following?

Mass public shootings killed 93 people in 2018.......in 2017 there were 10,982 gun murders....the majority committed by gangs fighting each other over drug territory.....you are hyperventilating over the wrong problem.

 

[2aguy]

No AR-15 this time but a 45 with large capacity magazines

Those magazines allowed him to remain in a lengthy gun battle with multiple police officers

wrong.....as you know, the gun free zone, the fact that no one else could shoot back allowed him to kill.....the magazine had nothing to do with it as actual research shows...

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN



Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
========
In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.
==========
The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.
LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.
News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.
There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.
In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.
Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----


-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

Ask the cops engaged in a shootout how much those large capacity magazines helped him

When will we learn?

Well, genius.......considering they were shooting back.....?

Before the cops arrived he was shooting unarmed, defenseless people in a gun free zone...he killed 12.

When the cops arrived and started shooting back....he killed 0.

You have no argument. Magazine capacity has nothing to do with the number killed.......gun free zones allowed 12 people to be killed...