VA Beach Munc Cntr Shooting: 11 Killed by Emp

[NoNukes]

Citizens with proficiency and talent
score higher and shoot better than trained cops, dumbass. Of course you don't know shit about shooting, but you'll flap your cockholster about it anyway.

I agree

I have no empirical evidence and what I have I admit is largely anecdotal. However after decades of shooting experience with civilian, military and law enforcement I've concluded that Law Enforcement is the least safe with firearms.

In the military the training they require for firearms varies from branch to branch. However the one advantage is intense discipline and standards in general which reinforces firearms safety. I've seen some negligent discharges in the military and they are always followed with some pretty unpleasant consequences for the idiot who fired a round in a negligent manner. Range NCOs can often reinforce safety and standards with some swift physical penalties when working on a range with live ammo.

It's not great in the military but basically in between.

Civilians vary depending on where you are and who they are. Generally when people go to a privately owned and operated range the owners will get rid of dangerous customers often before they even start shooting, At my favorite range I have seen them throw out and ban people just for asking stupid questions such as " what size bullets does this 9mm gun use?" or " what kinda clips does this here gun use ?" " what do you mean its a magazine not a clip?" " I dont see no pages ".

There are some pretty dangerous careless and dangerous civilians but usually they get thrown off of a range or they apply themselves and learn properly.

Law enforcement however seems to be the worst in my experience. I have seen MANY cops on ranges miss a couple of shots and throw their still loaded weapon at the target. I've seen them muzzle each other or try some hollywood crap like spinning the weapon or holding it sideways.

I suspect that this is because of the training they receive or rather the lack of it. Most officers go through VERY extensive training when becoming officers at the various academies they go through. After they are sworn in however they start to forget that training and it is not properly reinforced. Typically the re certify or qualify once a year. Maybe sometimes twice a year. They forget what they were taught and revert to doing dumb stuff unless they happen to be shooters on their own time.

Much of the training in general that law enforcement receives is not really training at all. It is not developing conditioned skills it is merely a lesson which is designed to deter litigation for the department. In other words they get some basic instruction and then if they do something questionable or wrong the department cannot be sued because they can show that they taught the officers to do something different. This includes other skills such as unarmed self defense tasers etc etc.

Like I said its all anecdotal but I keep seeing the same things over and over.

“There are some pretty dangerous careless and dangerous civilians…”

True.

Which further supports the fact that armed civilians lack both the training and experience to act as a ‘deterrent’ to mass shooting.

Armed civilians is not a ‘solution’ to the problem of mass shootings.

If all those victims were armed, there wouldnt have been as many victims. Thats simply a fact.

That is not a fact, but an idiotic opinion.

No, it is a fact born out by real world experience and statistics. The fact that you are the one who is wrong is purely up to your ignorance.

Wrong!!!! Americans are the only people in the civilised world who you would have this discussion with.

 

[Soupnazi630]

I agree

I have no empirical evidence and what I have I admit is largely anecdotal. However after decades of shooting experience with civilian, military and law enforcement I've concluded that Law Enforcement is the least safe with firearms.

In the military the training they require for firearms varies from branch to branch. However the one advantage is intense discipline and standards in general which reinforces firearms safety. I've seen some negligent discharges in the military and they are always followed with some pretty unpleasant consequences for the idiot who fired a round in a negligent manner. Range NCOs can often reinforce safety and standards with some swift physical penalties when working on a range with live ammo.

It's not great in the military but basically in between.

Civilians vary depending on where you are and who they are. Generally when people go to a privately owned and operated range the owners will get rid of dangerous customers often before they even start shooting, At my favorite range I have seen them throw out and ban people just for asking stupid questions such as " what size bullets does this 9mm gun use?" or " what kinda clips does this here gun use ?" " what do you mean its a magazine not a clip?" " I dont see no pages ".

There are some pretty dangerous careless and dangerous civilians but usually they get thrown off of a range or they apply themselves and learn properly.

Law enforcement however seems to be the worst in my experience. I have seen MANY cops on ranges miss a couple of shots and throw their still loaded weapon at the target. I've seen them muzzle each other or try some hollywood crap like spinning the weapon or holding it sideways.

I suspect that this is because of the training they receive or rather the lack of it. Most officers go through VERY extensive training when becoming officers at the various academies they go through. After they are sworn in however they start to forget that training and it is not properly reinforced. Typically the re certify or qualify once a year. Maybe sometimes twice a year. They forget what they were taught and revert to doing dumb stuff unless they happen to be shooters on their own time.

Much of the training in general that law enforcement receives is not really training at all. It is not developing conditioned skills it is merely a lesson which is designed to deter litigation for the department. In other words they get some basic instruction and then if they do something questionable or wrong the department cannot be sued because they can show that they taught the officers to do something different. This includes other skills such as unarmed self defense tasers etc etc.

Like I said its all anecdotal but I keep seeing the same things over and over.

“There are some pretty dangerous careless and dangerous civilians…”

True.

Which further supports the fact that armed civilians lack both the training and experience to act as a ‘deterrent’ to mass shooting.

Armed civilians is not a ‘solution’ to the problem of mass shootings.

If all those victims were armed, there wouldnt have been as many victims. Thats simply a fact.

That is not a fact, but an idiotic opinion.

No, it is a fact born out by real world experience and statistics. The fact that you are the one who is wrong is purely up to your ignorance.

Wrong!!!! Americans are the only people in the civilised world who you would have this discussion with.

Not wrong.

I have the same discussion with euro trash all the time and my statements are factually correct

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Nope.....as more Americans own and carry guns our gun murder rate has gone down, not up.....which blows the crap out of your theory.....

bullshit, we still have the highest murder rates in the industrialized world. Tens of thousands when most civilized countries only have hundreds.

They don’t have fatherless democrat plantation negroes.

Also our murder rate is not 10's of thousands. He just likes to lie

 

[pismoe]

---------------------------------- its the price we pay to be Armed and i see it as acceptable . Thats 10 - 11 thousand dead a year while 30 thousand or more die in car accidents . So 10 - 11 thousand dead by criminals out of a nation with over 320 million and millions of illegals NNuke .

How about the children dying in school shootings, etc. Americans do not need to be armed, we are not armed here in Europe and we get along just fine. I live in Ireland and the police are not armed. Do you have any idea what a good feeling it is that we are that safe?

--------------------------------------- yeah well , we aren't 'europe' and i hope it stays that way at least for my lifetime . And as far ALL the CHILDREN dying in schools , how many are dying yearly NNuke .

How many years did you live in Europe for you to build such a strong opinion of it? I lived in the USA for 45 years and have been over here 23 years. Europe is a far superior place.

You are free to leave

Pay attention. I left 23 years ago.

-------------------------------------------- now , just don't come back 'NNukes !!

 

[Jarlaxle]

And you are wrong.....the guy who is a criminal because he lacked an intact family is going to get a gun...just like the muslim terrorists in France got fully automatic weapons in France, where they are completely illegal, on a continent, where they are completely illegal.

Um, terrorists have extensive networks supplying them...

Mass shooters just go down to the local gun store, genuflect at the portrait of Carlton Heston, and move on.

No.......if you know where to buy drugs....in any American town or city....you have a pipeline to illegal guns......and you don't have to be a terrorist to get them.

I could have gotten just about anything-up to and including full auto-last week, as long as I had cash. On my lunch break.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Considering they haven't mentioned his political party yet.......good chance he is a democrat and obama/bernie bro.........that they haven't mentioned an AR-15 yet....likely he didn't use one...

But, we can wait to see what we find out....

Actually, what we've found out so far is that he's a veteran and was a loyal employee of this place for 16 years... who just snapped one day.

Maybe we'll find out he had a boss who was fucking with him... or maybe he was crazy for years.

Key thing. He was able to legally get guns and kill a lot of people. That's what's messed up.

No.....600 million guns in private hands today......one man walked into that place and broke the law.....he was messed up, not the other several million gun owners......

And considering that as more Americans own and carry guns....more than ever before, and our gun murder rate has gone down, not up.....you have no valid point....

Also....none of your gun laws that you asshats wanted stopped him.......your gun free zone law allowed him access to unarmed victims.....

He stopped murdering people when people with guns started shooting back at him.......showing you don't know what you are talking about...

Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

I don't know where these numbers come from, but if we are so much safer than we were in '93, WHY are mass shootings becoming a monthly if not weekly incident in our country?

They're not, we just didn't have the constant barrage of news until recently.

Do you really think that if everyone working in that building yesterday was armed, they would have had the wherewithal to stop him? Dig the pistol out of your bag or briefcase or desk drawer, hole up behind something sturdy to shield you and try to peek out and take aim. All of this with him shooting and people dropping all around you, others screaming and running. Only a trained professional cop or soldier would be able to do that and it would be dangerous as hell. Most people would duck and hide, hope for the best and worry about their own ass, not being Clark Kent.

Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[JoeB131]

Your BLM buddies were killing them. You can't get any plainer then that. A few of the Black guys that were shooting cops had PTSD from military service.

Okay, a couple of points.

First, there was only ONE case where a guy shot at cops... AFTER cops shot some civilians... He was immediately killed in the process.

Second, if someone is suffering form PTSD, HE SHOULDN'T BE A FUCKING COP!!!!

 

[JoeB131]

Of those 10,982 people killed in 2017, 70-80% are criminals killed by other criminals....

And they're probably darkies, too, so they totally have it coming.

 

[NoNukes]

“There are some pretty dangerous careless and dangerous civilians…”

True.

Which further supports the fact that armed civilians lack both the training and experience to act as a ‘deterrent’ to mass shooting.

Armed civilians is not a ‘solution’ to the problem of mass shootings.

If all those victims were armed, there wouldnt have been as many victims. Thats simply a fact.

That is not a fact, but an idiotic opinion.

No, it is a fact born out by real world experience and statistics. The fact that you are the one who is wrong is purely up to your ignorance.

Wrong!!!! Americans are the only people in the civilised world who you would have this discussion with.

Not wrong.

I have the same discussion with euro trash all the time and my statements are factually correct

Euro Trash, shows your ignorance

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Of those 10,982 people killed in 2017, 70-80% are criminals killed by other criminals....

And they're probably darkies, too, so they totally have it coming.

They were probably killed by fellow blacks you are aware more whites are killed by blacks then blacks are killed by whites right?

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Big deal. Take a look at Europe as a whole, so that the populations are similar and guess what. Europe's violent crime rates are higher than ours, and gun deaths are similar. You cherry pick and think that supports your argument. All it does is show you to be a weak minded silly person incapable of thinking for yourself.

Thank God for our Second Amendment

Yeah, now total them all up and you will see it is the same, actually trending better for the USA. And, the violent crime rates throughout Europe are exploding. Same gun laws as you wish, and the gun crime rates are exploding. Why?

Why would you "add them all up" ? Its per 100,000 of population so that is never going to change.

Because you claim that Europe is safer than the US but you only choose those countries that support your lie.

If you use ALL of Europe, then, the population counts are similar and that way you get all of the countries, not just your pet few.

And voila, comparing like to like and Europe is no better than the US and in many categories is actually worse.

Please tell me you are just confused. Its pro rata old fella . The percentages dont change. Jeez!

We dont pay taxes for royals......

 

[Claudette]

Disgruntled municipal employee shot up a municipal building according to reports

Effin loon

Yup. That's what I heard. Four cops, two of whom were K-9 officers stopped him.

He was shot dead after he killed 11 co-workers.

What a loon.

The gun is the tool. The person using it is the weapon. Find a way to control and regulate loons and you will make a fortune.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Disgruntled municipal employee shot up a municipal building according to reports

Effin loon

Yup. That's what I heard. Four cops, two of whom were K-9 officers stopped him.

He was shot dead after he killed 11 co-workers.

What a loon.

The gun is the tool. The person using it is the weapon. Find a way to control and regulate loons and you will make a fortune.

We had a way for over a century, they were called "Sanitariums" or "Mental Hospitals".