Vaccine Mandate Precedent: Jacobson v. Massachusetts

[TemplarKormac]

"The interpretation of the laws is the proper and peculiar province of the courts. A constitution is, in fact, and must be regarded by the judges, as a fundamental law. It therefore belongs to them to ascertain its meaning, as well as the meaning of any particular act proceeding from the legislative body. If there should happen to be an irreconcilable variance between the two, that which has the superior obligation and validity ought, of course, to be preferred; or, in other words, the Constitution ought to be preferred to the statute, the intention of the people to the intention of their agents."

Skylar My mistake it was federalist 45 I was thinking of.

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State. -James Madison Federalist 45

Any judge that places their opinion above the expressed intent of the founders has no business on the bench.

.

 

[SavannahMann]

Please Right Wingers. Don’t get the vaccine. The best service you can do for yourself and the country is remove yourselves from the living.

COVID-19 kills Americans at a rate of 1 in 500, data shows

An estimated one in every 500 Americans has died of coronavirus as of September 2021, according to national COVID-19 statistics and the U.S. Census Bureau.

www.foxnews.com

One in five hundred. So far. That means Covid is killing more than the usual RW boogie man fear monger hype. And with luck it will keep killing the extreme right off.

Do not get the vaccine. Do not take it. Do us all a favor. Just don’t get it.

 

[OKTexas]

The courts affirmed vaccine mandates in Jacobson.

""It is within the police power of a State to enact a compulsory vaccination law, and it is for the legislature, and not for the courts, to determine in the first instance whether vaccination is or is not the best mode for the prevention of smallpox and the protection of the public health. "

So what was determined to be unconstitutional exactly?

Exactly which State legislatures have enacted a law that comports with xidens mandate?

.

 

[Rogue AI]

View attachment 539861

Please Right Wingers. Don’t get the vaccine. The best service you can do for yourself and the country is remove yourselves from the living.

COVID-19 kills Americans at a rate of 1 in 500, data shows

An estimated one in every 500 Americans has died of coronavirus as of September 2021, according to national COVID-19 statistics and the U.S. Census Bureau.

www.foxnews.com

One in five hundred. So far. That means Covid is killing more than the usual RW boogie man fear monger hype. And with luck it will keep killing the extreme right off.

Do not get the vaccine. Do not take it. Do us all a favor. Just don’t get it.

With the 99+% survivability, you folks are going to be waiting a damn long time. You might be rid us just in time for the 2320 election.

 

[TemplarKormac]

View attachment 539861

Please Right Wingers. Don’t get the vaccine. The best service you can do for yourself and the country is remove yourselves from the living.

COVID-19 kills Americans at a rate of 1 in 500, data shows

An estimated one in every 500 Americans has died of coronavirus as of September 2021, according to national COVID-19 statistics and the U.S. Census Bureau.

www.foxnews.com

One in five hundred. So far. That means Covid is killing more than the usual RW boogie man fear monger hype. And with luck it will keep killing the extreme right off.

Do not get the vaccine. Do not take it. Do us all a favor. Just don’t get it.

You luv you some dead RW's dontcha?

 

[airplanemechanic]

It doesn't say that. It says that States clearly have that authority. It doesn't address the federal issue at all.

The basis of their ruling was that State vaccine mandates don't violate the 14th amendment. Given that the 14th amendment extends federal protections to restricting the States, its a bit of an uphill battle to argue that a federal mandate would somehow violate those same rights when a State mandate didn't

But the SCOTUS decision ruled on a Massachusetts state LAW passed by their legislature, not an EO whipped up by a president (or governor). An EO is not a law, thus does not pertain to the SCOTUS decision. If it were passed as a federal law, it could be ruled on. But it wasn't, a child molester who was selected president made this rule. It has no teeth.

 

[SavannahMann]

You luv you some dead RW's dontcha?

If you insist on removing yourself from the gene pool why should I object? It is interesting though isn’t it? If people try and save your lives by giving you medical advice from experts they are trying to control you. If they say reject the advice so you can die they want you dead.

Keep going the way you are. Kill yourselves off with obstinate behavior. Go to your graves denouncing liberals and educated. Be my guest. I’ll help you celebrate your freedom. I’ll encourage you to do so. The entire country will see an increase in the average IQ by your determined sacrifice.

 

[OKTexas]

Oh my, that changes the entirety of our slugfest, then.

What is does is prove the federal judiciary is one of the greatest dangers to our Constitution. And what we need is an amendment where a majority of the State legislatures can nullify any decision of the federal courts, after all the States are the ultimate sovereigns in our republic.

.

 

[SavannahMann]

With the 99+% survivability, you folks are going to be waiting a damn long time. You might be rid us just in time for the 2320 election.

With the narrow margins in some districts we will see success long before that. A couple thousand dead here and there will see more Democrats elected to the House. Additional Senators will be elected from the more intelligent side of the political spectrum. More stubborn cops will die. And here is the best part. We don’t have to kill you. You are doing it to yourself.

If I killed a cop I’d face the death penalty. If I post on Facebook that the vaccine is dangerous and masks don’t work. In other words posting lies. The cops die from their own choices. And I have committed no crime.

 

[Rogue AI]

With the narrow margins in some districts we will see success long before that. A couple thousand dead here and there will see more Democrats elected to the House. Additional Senators will be elected from the more intelligent side of the political spectrum. More stubborn cops will die. And here is the best part. We don’t have to kill you. You are doing it to yourself.

If I killed a cop I’d face the death penalty. If I post on Facebook that the vaccine is dangerous and masks don’t work. In other words posting lies. The cops die from their own choices. And I have committed no crime.

Does that mean you will cease with all the self-righteous silliness?

 

[OKTexas]

With the narrow margins in some districts we will see success long before that. A couple thousand dead here and there will see more Democrats elected to the House. Additional Senators will be elected from the more intelligent side of the political spectrum. More stubborn cops will die. And here is the best part. We don’t have to kill you. You are doing it to yourself.

If I killed a cop I’d face the death penalty. If I post on Facebook that the vaccine is dangerous and masks don’t work. In other words posting lies. The cops die from their own choices. And I have committed no crime.

Oh but you'd be put in FB jail, to some that's worse than the real thing.

.

 

[TemplarKormac]

What is does is prove the federal judiciary is one of the greatest dangers to our Constitution. And what we need is an amendment where a majority of the State legislatures can nullify any decision of the federal courts, after all the States are the ultimate sovereigns in our republic.

.

Precisely.

I pointed out to Skylar in one of the Federalists... I forget which one now, that the judiciary is the weakest branch of the three, and it is dependent on the other two.

But as you said, the other two are essentially ceding their powers to the judiciary, making it everything the founders said it wasn't supposed to be.

 

[airplanemechanic]

If you insist on removing yourself from the gene pool why should I object? It is interesting though isn’t it? If people try and save your lives by giving you medical advice from experts they are trying to control you. If they say reject the advice so you can die they want you dead.

Keep going the way you are. Kill yourselves off with obstinate behavior. Go to your graves denouncing liberals and educated. Be my guest. I’ll help you celebrate your freedom. I’ll encourage you to do so. The entire country will see an increase in the average IQ by your determined sacrifice.

If I wanted to remove myself from the gene pool I'd use a method that has a better than 1% chance of being successful.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I'm gonna be waiting a long, long time, aren't I?

Seeing as how you scurried off before I gave my most recent rebuttal, yes.

12 hours at least.

 

[TemplarKormac]

If you insist on removing yourself from the gene pool why should I object?

Do you seriously think it's that dire? I mean seriously, with a virus that has a 98% survival rate, you act like it's the fourth coming of the Bubonic Plague.

Give it a rest.

 

[Skylar]

When one branch of the government supersedes the power of another through action, the action itself is unconstitutional.

We call it the separation of powers.

Congress is getting no say so in the operation of OSHA, yet they passed it. The Executive branch is allowing OSHA to craft regulations without the input of Congress. Meaning that the executive, by proxy, is passing legislation.

All you need do is look at the Alvarez decision. Also, take what Madison said in Federalist 47:

“The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.”

We are allowing one branch to take on the role of another, which is not what the founders intended.

The executive is not enforcing anything, either, it is allowing an agency to essentially pass legislation without any restrictions on its behavior by the Executive, thereby allowing OSHA to effectively be a branch of government in and of itself.

The very reasoning of the founders themselves renders OSHA's very existence unconstitutional.

So the USSC has never found OSHA to be unconstitutional. Or that regulatory agencies can't create new rules in pursuance of their congressional mandates. Or that regulatory agencies can't answer to the executive.

You made all that up, citing yourself.

As Federalist 78 makes clear, it is the judiciary that inteprets the constitution under the constitution. You are ignoring that delegation of authority - most definitely by the will of the founders- and replacing it with your own personal opinions.

That's not a legal argument.

Is that it?

 

[SweetSue92]

There was this pastor in Cambridge, Massachusetts named Henning Jacobson who had a very bad reaction to a vaccine when he was an infant. He had a painful rash for years.

So when, in 1904, the Cambridge board of health mandated that everyone in Cambridge get a smallpox vaccine, Jacobson went into full blown anti-vaxxer mode and refused.

The penalty for not getting the vaccine was $5.00. About $140 in today's funny money.

Jacobson had also strongly urged his son not to get the smallpox vaccine, but there was an employer mandate and so his son got the shot. His son then suffered a painful reaction which kept his arm in a sling for six months.

The Anti-Vaccination Society backed Jacobson's cause all the way to the US Supreme Court.

Like modern day anti-vaxxers, Jacobson argued that vaccines CAUSE disease and he made other dubious claims.

The Court did not allow him to have his "experts" in this spurious bullshit argue before the court.

They ruled 7-2 against Jacobson. This decision was later affirmed by the Supreme Court in 1922, in Zucht v. King.

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905)

Jacobson v. Massachusetts: A state may enact a compulsory vaccination law, since the legislature has the discretion to decide whether vaccination is the best way to prevent smallpox and protect public health. The legislature may exempt children from the law without violating the equal protection...

supreme.justia.com

Zucht v. King, 260 U.S. 174 (1922)

Zucht v. King

supreme.justia.com

Lotta people think this will be struck down if it makes the Supreme Court again. this was before many, many other SC cases were passed based on individual Civil Rights.

Funny how the party that used to at least PRETEND to be interested in Civil Rights is not so much anymore

 

[SweetSue92]

So the USSC has never found OSHA to be unconstitutional. Or that regulatory agencies can't create new rules in pursuance of their congressional mandates. Or that regulatory agencies can't answer to the executive.

You made all that up, citing yourself.

As Federalist 78 makes clear, it is the judiciary that inteprets the constitution under the constitution. You are ignoring that delegation of authority - most definitely by the will of the founders- and replacing it with your own personal opinions.

That's not a legal argument.

Is that it?

The "emergency" bill Biden is attempting to use to get this done via OSHA has been struck down much, much more often than not. And does not even come close to injecting people with chemical compounds against their will.

I cannot believe what has become of so-called "liberals"

 

[Skylar]

But the SCOTUS decision ruled on a Massachusetts state LAW passed by their legislature, not an EO whipped up by a president (or governor). An EO is not a law, thus does not pertain to the SCOTUS decision. If it were passed as a federal law, it could be ruled on. But it wasn't, a child molester who was selected president made this rule. It has no teeth.

It affirms the State's authority the make such mandates. On the authority issue of the federal government to create vaccine mandates, Jacobson is silent. It never mentions it, affirms it, or rejects it.

On the issue of vaccine mandates violating the 14th amendment, Jacobson rejects the notion. And as mentioned earlier, its a tough sell to argue that a federal mandate would violate federal protections when a state mandate doesn't. Either the State and Federal mandate would violate such protections or neither would. As its the same protections.

 

[SavannahMann]

Do you seriously think it's that dire? I mean seriously, with a virus that has a 98% survival rate, you act like it's the fourth coming of the Bubonic Plague.

Give it a rest.

One in 500 have died so far. That means Covid is way more dangerous than Chicago. And the RW can’t stop harping about Chicago.

So does this mean that you are going to be telling the usual Race Baiters to shut up when they post about Chicago?