Virginia gun control law kept AR-15 out of hands of DC shooter

[Missourian]

I'm sure that you will let us know when that happens. In the meantime, I trust CBS news more than the source that said that he was not refused permission to buy the gun in Virginia... which was, (and I am NOT making this up!) the "Hot Air" blog, as well as a blog called the Washington Times..

For such an egregious error, the entire premise for the article is a lie, I would hope a retraction would come. I don't expect one as they have no integrity.

You can trust CBS but the Virginia statutes don't lie. Perhaps you missed it but I posted the actual Virgina law covering the rental and purchase of "assault firearms" with a link.


The OP / NYT article did lie and the CBS article is lumped in too . . .

Virgina law makes no distinction between state resident or non-resident renting or purchasing the firearm:

§ 18.2-308.2:2.B.1 (in part):

In addition, no dealer shall sell, rent, trade or transfer from his inventory any assault firearm to any person who is not a citizen of the United States or who is not a person lawfully admitted for permanent residence. To establish citizenship or lawful admission for a permanent residence for purposes of purchasing an assault firearm, a dealer shall require a prospective purchaser to present a certified birth certificate or a certificate of birth abroad issued by the United States State Department, a certificate of citizenship or a certificate of naturalization issued by the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, an unexpired U.S. passport, a United States citizen identification card, a current voter registration card, a current selective service registration card, or an immigrant visa or other documentation of status as a person lawfully admitted for permanent residence issued by the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services.

​

Not buying it, Abat. Your quoted law is not the entire law of Virginia. In fact, such a restriction may very well be a condition of their obtaining a dealer's license...which the dealer could lose if he sold to an out of Virginia resident of the USA.

Show us the law.

I've never heard of a law like the one in the OP.

A long gun is a long gun...a pistol is a pistol.

I can't buy EITHER in Virginia as far as my understanding of the law is concerned.

I can only buy handguns IN MISSOURI. I can purchase a long gun in any state that touches Missouri.

I can buy either from ANY state, as long as it is shipped from a FFL to a FFL in Missouri.

Texas is no different.

PURCHASEA Texas resident, if not otherwise precluded by law, may purchase rifles and shotguns, ammunition, reloading components, or firearms accessories in contiguous states.

NRA-ILA | Texas
​

 

[Black_Label]

The shooter had no criminal convictions and was not judged mentally deranged by any Doctor or mental institution. How do you stop him from buying a gun?

This is the problem with the countries gun laws being so lax, a nutjob like Alexis was able to get a gun to go on a shooting spree, legally.

Mental health professionals should have the ability to report to the ATF so the mentally ill can not get guns.

As it is now, you have to be found mentally incompetent by a judge for that to happen, which means you have to commit a crime first before they do that.

No, dimwit, this is the problem with droolers like you focusing on the tools instead of the lunatics wielding them. We will never deal effectively with this problem until we stop letting fools like you have any part in the discussion.

The problem is idiots like you that think the mentally ill and terrorist should have no questions asked access to as many lethal weapons that they want to commit crimes.

 

[Black_Label]

Tyrannical Virginia Gun Law Kept DC Shooter From Buying AR-15

"Aaron Alexis, who was unable to purchase the AR-15 he wanted last week because Virginia law “prohibits the sale of such weapons to out-of-state buyers.” Instead, he bought “a law-enforcement-style shotgun — an 870 Remington pump-action” — which he used in his deadly rampage Monday.
Read more at Tyrannical Virginia Gun Law Kept DC Shooter From Buying AR-15 "

"It’s probably worth noting that Alexis had to pump the shotgun each time he fired, and that the Remington has a standard seven-round magazine. An AR-15, on the other hand, fires a round with each pull of the trigger, with a rate of fire much faster than a shotgun’s, and typical magazines hold 20 to 30 rounds, although higher-capacity magazines — 60 to 100 rounds — are also popular. In the Newtown massacre, Adam Lanza managed to fire 155 rounds in under five minutes.
Read more at Tyrannical Virginia Gun Law Kept DC Shooter From Buying AR-15 "


But, of course, NRA teaches us that laws like this don't work, and that free access to guns saves lives....

It didn't work.

This comes from a fundamental lack of understanding about firearms.

I made this EXACT argument in reference to how stupid it was to try to ban AR-15's.

I have a Remington 870 Express...and while your Reactionary web blog cited in the OP calls it a "Tactical Police Weapon"...the truth is the 870 is simply a cheaper version of the 870 Wingmaster...probably the most popular water fowl hunting firearm in the world.

It has also likely taken more deer than any other single brand of firearm.

Remington® 870 Express 12 Gauge w/28'' Barrel Shotgun | Bass Pro Shops

Is anyone considering banning this weapon?

They make numerous different versions of the 870

This is the tactical short barreled version

You can even get it with a pistol grip and shot barrel for easy hiding and mobility

 

[tinydancer]

Nail in the coffin of the NYT and this OP. Proves the NYT are lying slimes. One more time. Alexis never even tried to buy an AR15.

Man the NYT are just propagandizing douchebags. There is no nice way to put it.

The Times has a story Tuesday on its homepage with the headline “State Law Stopped Gunman From Buying Rifle, Officials Say.”

The first line says: “The gunman who killed 12 people at the Washington Navy Yard on Monday test fired an AR-15 assault rifle at a Virginia gun store last week but was stopped from buying one because state law there prohibits the sale of such weapons to out-of-state buyers, according to two senior law enforcement officials.”

Apparently neither the reporter nor his editors took the time to fact check their vague “law enforcement officials” sources.

“Virginia law does not prohibit the sale of assault rifles to out-of-state citizens who have proper identification,” Dan Peterson, a Virginia firearms attorney, told me Tuesday night. The required identification is proof of residency in another state and of U.S. citizenship, which can be items like a passport, birth certificate or voter identification card.

The Commonwealth defines “assault firearm” as any semiautomatic centerfire rifle or pistol with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds or can accommodate a silencer or is equipped with a folding stock.

John Frazer, also a firearms attorney in the Commonwealth, told me that, “State law in Virginia — like most states — allows purchase of rifles or shotguns by residents of other states. Virginia simply requires some additional forms of identification.”

Spokesmen for the Times did not respond to requests for comment.

Federal law is clear on this residency issue. A quick glance at the ATF website would have informed the New York Times journalists that a person may buy a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a federal firearms licensee’s premises in any state, provided the sale complies with state laws, which it would in this case.

Perhaps they were confused with the federal law on handguns, which can only be sold or transferred through dealers in the same state as the buyer.

While it is true that Alexis rented and shot an AR-type rifle at Sharpshooters Small Arms Range in Lorton, sources close to the investigation tell me that he did not attempt to buy the rifle.

Instead, he passed both the federal and state background checks and bought a Remington 870 shotgun and 30 shotgun shells (00 buckshot), which he used, tragically, to kill 12 innocent people


More at link:

MILLER: New York Times gets it wrong, media obsessed with linking AR-15 with Navy Yard shooter - Washington Times

 

[tinydancer]

They not only lied about the law, they blatantly lied by saying that Alexis was "stopped" from buying an AR15.

He never tried to buy one.

 

[Black_Label]

They not only lied about the law, they blatantly lied by saying that Alexis was "stopped" from buying an AR15.

He never tried to buy one.

Your link is to a radical right wing propaganda site with 0 credibility.

 

[Wildman]

GUN CONTROL DOES NOT WORK

A Harvard Study titled "Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide?" looks at figures for "intentional deaths" throughout continental Europe and juxtaposes them with the U.S. to show that more gun control does not necessarily lead to lower death rates or violent crime.
Because the findings so clearly demonstrate that more gun laws may in fact increase death rates, the study says that "the mantra that more guns mean more deaths and that fewer guns, therefore, mean fewer deaths" is wrong.

 

[Vandalshandle]

It was, in fact, a short barrelled tactical weapon.


...although I am still intrigued with the visualization of deer hunting with a shotgun!

 

[francoHFW]

The Washington Times is a fos Rev. MOON rag. WTF is wrong with our media these days...loudmouth brainwashed Pubs and silly loudmouth dupes, COWARDLY LSM, POLICE AND GOD KNOWS who TERRIFIED OF THEM...A DISGRACE.... WHAT GUN WAS USED AT NEWTOWN aaarrrggghhh...

 

[Vandalshandle]

The Washington Times is a fos Rev. MOON rag. WTF is wrong with our media these days...loudmouth brainwashed Pubs and silly loudmouth dupes, COWARDLY LSM, POLICE AND GOD KNOWS who TERRIFIED OF THEM...A DISGRACE.... WHAT GUN WAS USED AT NEWTOWN aaarrrggghhh...

Well, if you can't believe Rev. Moon, who can you believe...?

 

[tinydancer]

They not only lied about the law, they blatantly lied by saying that Alexis was "stopped" from buying an AR15.

He never tried to buy one.

Your link is to a radical right wing propaganda site with 0 credibility.

I've put up a link to the actual code itself.

Surely that can't be a radical right wing propaganda site with 0 credibility

Here ya go sparky!

LIS > Code of Virginia > 18.2-308.2:2

 

[Missourian]

Tyrannical Virginia Gun Law Kept DC Shooter From Buying AR-15

"Aaron Alexis, who was unable to purchase the AR-15 he wanted last week because Virginia law “prohibits the sale of such weapons to out-of-state buyers.” Instead, he bought “a law-enforcement-style shotgun — an 870 Remington pump-action” — which he used in his deadly rampage Monday.
Read more at Tyrannical Virginia Gun Law Kept DC Shooter From Buying AR-15 "

"It’s probably worth noting that Alexis had to pump the shotgun each time he fired, and that the Remington has a standard seven-round magazine. An AR-15, on the other hand, fires a round with each pull of the trigger, with a rate of fire much faster than a shotgun’s, and typical magazines hold 20 to 30 rounds, although higher-capacity magazines — 60 to 100 rounds — are also popular. In the Newtown massacre, Adam Lanza managed to fire 155 rounds in under five minutes.
Read more at Tyrannical Virginia Gun Law Kept DC Shooter From Buying AR-15 "


But, of course, NRA teaches us that laws like this don't work, and that free access to guns saves lives....

It didn't work.

This comes from a fundamental lack of understanding about firearms.

I made this EXACT argument in reference to how stupid it was to try to ban AR-15's.

I have a Remington 870 Express...and while your Reactionary web blog cited in the OP calls it a "Tactical Police Weapon"...the truth is the 870 is simply a cheaper version of the 870 Wingmaster...probably the most popular water fowl hunting firearm in the world.

It has also likely taken more deer than any other single brand of firearm.

Remington® 870 Express 12 Gauge w/28'' Barrel Shotgun | Bass Pro Shops

Is anyone considering banning this weapon?

I think that you must be on the wrong thread. First of all, nobody is suggesting on here that any weapon be banned.

Second, on a personal note....are you serious about hunting deer with a SHOTGUN? Do you bring gunny sacks to haul home the pieces? What is the deer doing while you creep up to 10 feet from him? I understand that you can load this things with slugs, but for crying out loud, you could kill an elephant with that!

There is a reason they named the stuff buckshot...as in buck-shot.

I think you are being somewhat facetious...but there really is a fundamental lack of understanding about firearms and how the work demonstrated by folks on the gun grabber side of the equation.

A shotgun can be a very precise weapon with the right choke and ammunition combination...ask any turkey hunter.

A super full choke constricts the bore .050 inches.

Extra full - .045.

Full - .040

With OO (double aught) buckshot and a full choke...30-40 yard shots are typical.

That said...many hunters that use a shotgun for deer use a sabot style slug in a rifles barrel or a Foster style slug in a smooth bore.

 

[tinydancer]

The Washington Times is a fos Rev. MOON rag. WTF is wrong with our media these days...loudmouth brainwashed Pubs and silly loudmouth dupes, COWARDLY LSM, POLICE AND GOD KNOWS who TERRIFIED OF THEM...A DISGRACE.... WHAT GUN WAS USED AT NEWTOWN aaarrrggghhh...

OMG you are so fucking crazy. You are the face of the modern progressive.

I love it.

 

[Black_Label]

They not only lied about the law, they blatantly lied by saying that Alexis was "stopped" from buying an AR15.

He never tried to buy one.

Your link is to a radical right wing propaganda site with 0 credibility.

I've put up a link to the actual code itself.

Surely that can't be a radical right wing propaganda site with 0 credibility

Here ya go sparky!

LIS > Code of Virginia > 18.2-308.2:2

You should have read it shitstain.

In addition, no dealer shall sell, rent, trade or transfer from his inventory any assault firearm to any person who is not a citizen of the United States or who is not a person lawfully admitted for permanent residence. To establish citizenship or lawful admission for a permanent residence for purposes of purchasing an assault firearm, a dealer shall require a prospective purchaser to present a certified birth certificate or a certificate of birth abroad issued by the United States State Department, a certificate of citizenship or a certificate of naturalization issued by the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, an unexpired U.S. passport, a United States citizen identification card, a current voter registration card, a current selective service registration card, or an immigrant visa or other documentation of status as a person lawfully admitted for permanent residence issued by the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services.

On top of a photo ID, you also have to present a birth certificate, passport, or another government form of ID to get an assault rifle.

As usual your propaganda site is wrong.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I bow to your superior knowledge of shotguns. I own 5 guns, and none of them are shotguns.

But it still has nothing to do with the issue. The shooter was denied the right to purchase a much more lethal weapon by gun laws that worked. It is too bad that such law did not also apply to to a shotgun.

 

[NYcarbineer]

He was firing from the third floor down on a first floor cafeteria area, the spread is a bit more than 12 inches at that distance.

Want to try again?

And he can individually aim each pellet? That's your claim. Prove it.

When did I make that claim?

When you said this:

12 shotgun rounds with 9 pellets per round is 108 shots with the AR-15.

If you knew anything about guns you'd know that each shot from an AR-15 occurs with one pull of the trigger,

and each can be aimed individually. No such thing happens with shotshells fired from a shotgun.

Amazing stupidity. Simply amazing. Breathtakingly amazing stupidity. Stupidity transcendent above and beyond the realm of ordinary earthbound stupidity.

 

[Missourian]

Tyrannical Virginia Gun Law Kept DC Shooter From Buying AR-15

"Aaron Alexis, who was unable to purchase the AR-15 he wanted last week because Virginia law “prohibits the sale of such weapons to out-of-state buyers.” Instead, he bought “a law-enforcement-style shotgun — an 870 Remington pump-action” — which he used in his deadly rampage Monday.
Read more at Tyrannical Virginia Gun Law Kept DC Shooter From Buying AR-15 "

"It’s probably worth noting that Alexis had to pump the shotgun each time he fired, and that the Remington has a standard seven-round magazine. An AR-15, on the other hand, fires a round with each pull of the trigger, with a rate of fire much faster than a shotgun’s, and typical magazines hold 20 to 30 rounds, although higher-capacity magazines — 60 to 100 rounds — are also popular. In the Newtown massacre, Adam Lanza managed to fire 155 rounds in under five minutes.
Read more at Tyrannical Virginia Gun Law Kept DC Shooter From Buying AR-15 "


But, of course, NRA teaches us that laws like this don't work, and that free access to guns saves lives....

It didn't work.

This comes from a fundamental lack of understanding about firearms.

I made this EXACT argument in reference to how stupid it was to try to ban AR-15's.

I have a Remington 870 Express...and while your Reactionary web blog cited in the OP calls it a "Tactical Police Weapon"...the truth is the 870 is simply a cheaper version of the 870 Wingmaster...probably the most popular water fowl hunting firearm in the world.

It has also likely taken more deer than any other single brand of firearm.

Remington® 870 Express 12 Gauge w/28'' Barrel Shotgun | Bass Pro Shops

Is anyone considering banning this weapon?

They make numerous different versions of the 870

This is the tactical short barreled version

You can even get it with a pistol grip and shot barrel for easy hiding and mobility

OK?

So what?

With a hacksaw I could chop mine down like that in 15 minutes.

Here's a sawed off Mossberg AT 500...

 

[Missourian]

I bow to your superior knowledge of shotguns. I own 5 guns, and none of them are shotguns.

But it still has nothing to do with the issue. The shooter was denied the right to purchase a much more lethal weapon by gun laws that worked. It is too bad that such law did not also apply to to a shotgun.

What state (or district) was he a resident of?

If he was a resident of Texas, he shouldn't have been able to buy anything in Virginia.


Edit...that's an extremely crappy sentence.

How about...

Of which state was he a resident at the time of the purchase?

 

[Black_Label]

It didn't work.

This comes from a fundamental lack of understanding about firearms.

I made this EXACT argument in reference to how stupid it was to try to ban AR-15's.

I have a Remington 870 Express...and while your Reactionary web blog cited in the OP calls it a "Tactical Police Weapon"...the truth is the 870 is simply a cheaper version of the 870 Wingmaster...probably the most popular water fowl hunting firearm in the world.

It has also likely taken more deer than any other single brand of firearm.

Remington® 870 Express 12 Gauge w/28'' Barrel Shotgun | Bass Pro Shops

Is anyone considering banning this weapon?

They make numerous different versions of the 870

This is the tactical short barreled version

You can even get it with a pistol grip and shot barrel for easy hiding and mobility

OK?

So what?

With a hacksaw I could chop mine down like that in 15 minutes.

Here's a sawed off Mossberg AT 500...

Because you were making claims the site was making up BS that he had a tactical shotgun, and play it off like it was some giant old man, elmer fudd shotgun when in fact, they do make a tactical police model.

 

[koshergrl]

It was, in fact, a short barrelled tactical weapon.


...although I am still intrigued with the visualization of deer hunting with a shotgun!

I think they use slugs