Voter ID: How about this?

[kaz]

So what about it, Voter ID people? How about we automatically register people to vote when they sign up for welfare or food stamps?

You don't need to do that, we have the systems in place.

Whenever a citizen first gets an idea, one of the requirements is to prove citizenship with a birth certificate and notarized statement from two other citizens to attest to identity. The piece of ID which is then granted makes note of citizenship status. That agency's backroom then verifies the authenticity of the birth certificate by checking with the granting state's vital records agency.

When other ID is granted, it too notes citizenship status but relies on the first ID as proof, thus bypassing the need for continual verification.

Voter registration does a more thorough job of maintaining and authenticating its data.

That should go a long way towards preventing Democratic Party election fraud.

So when Voter ID tards whine that you have to show ID to get food stamps, how come you don't point out the illogic of their argument? Apples and oranges.

You think conservatives want ID checked for voting but not for food stamps? What?

 

[kaz]

None of that equates to you having supported your assertion that anyone wants to suppress votes. People proving who they are doesn't stop anyone legitimate from voting. No one. And every State that requires ID offers a free ID to vote, so there is no cost. You haven't established anything, you just make a blind accusation.

Are Voter IDs made by elves? Because that is the only possible way they could be "no cost."

Taxpayers pay for "free" Voter IDs, the same way taxpayers pay for "free" roads.

Voter ID costs the taxpayers money. A lot of money. Therefore, you must demonstrate the need to spend that money.

Since Voter ID does not stop fraud, you are wasting taxpayer money. And a lot of time.

Suddenly a liberal is worried about government wasting money. That's classic...

 

[g5000]

None of that equates to you having supported your assertion that anyone wants to suppress votes. People proving who they are doesn't stop anyone legitimate from voting. No one. And every State that requires ID offers a free ID to vote, so there is no cost. You haven't established anything, you just make a blind accusation.

Exactly.
It is impossible to honestly and soundly argue that either of the suggestions in the OP in any way imply a desire to suppress votes, especially given that both of them are designed to provide the effect of a voter ID for low-income people w/o any cost to same.

You are advocating the wasting o f

So what about it, Voter ID people? How about we automatically register people to vote when they sign up for welfare or food stamps?

You don't need to do that, we have the systems in place.

Whenever a citizen first gets an idea, one of the requirements is to prove citizenship with a birth certificate and notarized statement from two other citizens to attest to identity. The piece of ID which is then granted makes note of citizenship status. That agency's backroom then verifies the authenticity of the birth certificate by checking with the granting state's vital records agency.

When other ID is granted, it too notes citizenship status but relies on the first ID as proof, thus bypassing the need for continual verification.

Voter registration does a more thorough job of maintaining and authenticating its data.

That should go a long way towards preventing Democratic Party election fraud.

So when Voter ID tards whine that you have to show ID to get food stamps, how come you don't point out the illogic of their argument? Apples and oranges.

You think conservatives want ID checked for voting but not for food stamps? What?

Voter ID proponents often whine that you have to show ID to get food stamps, therefore you should have to show ID to vote.

It is one of the dumber arguments.

So I asked that since you have to show ID to get food stamps, why not register people to vote when they get food stamps.

M14 said the process is different for getting food stamps than it is registering to vote, thus once again PROVING MY POINT that these are apples and oranges fallacies.

 

[boedicca]

None of that equates to you having supported your assertion that anyone wants to suppress votes. People proving who they are doesn't stop anyone legitimate from voting. No one. And every State that requires ID offers a free ID to vote, so there is no cost. You haven't established anything, you just make a blind accusation.

Are Voter IDs made by elves? Because that is the only possible way they could be "no cost."

Taxpayers pay for "free" Voter IDs, the same way taxpayers pay for "free" roads.

Voter ID costs the taxpayers money. A lot of money. Therefore, you must demonstrate the need to spend that money.

Since Voter ID does not stop fraud, you are wasting taxpayer money. And a lot of time.

That is a lie.

 

[kaz]

1. Electoral integrity. It's a simple notion utilized in democracies and struggling democracies across the globe.

   And yet you cannot prove Voter ID stops fraud.

Checking ID prevents anyone from just claiming to be someone else and voting for them. Prove it doesn't'.

 

[g5000]

None of that equates to you having supported your assertion that anyone wants to suppress votes. People proving who they are doesn't stop anyone legitimate from voting. No one. And every State that requires ID offers a free ID to vote, so there is no cost. You haven't established anything, you just make a blind accusation.

Are Voter IDs made by elves? Because that is the only possible way they could be "no cost."

Taxpayers pay for "free" Voter IDs, the same way taxpayers pay for "free" roads.

Voter ID costs the taxpayers money. A lot of money. Therefore, you must demonstrate the need to spend that money.

Since Voter ID does not stop fraud, you are wasting taxpayer money. And a lot of time.

Suddenly a liberal is worried about government wasting money. That's classic...

I'm old school conservative. From a time when a conservative was always the smartest person in the room.

This new devolved breed of alleged "conservatives" are the dumbest people in the room. Too dumb to even know how retarded they are.

So when are we going to see proof that Voter ID is the only means to stop or prevent voter fraud?

Never.

You just want to waste tax dollars for no reason at all. Pathetic.

 

[kaz]

You know Democrats are cheating, there is no other reason for you to want it to continue. If fraud were benefiting Republicans instead of you, you'd be setting yourself on fire in Lafayette Park demanding voter ID.

It is Voter ID proponents who want fraud to continue. They are deliberately wasting taxpayer money on a completely ineffective government program. That money could be put to use toward things which would actually stop fraud.

Therefore, it is blazingly obvious Voter ID proponents want fraud to continue. They have wasted money on a government program which allows it to continue unabated.

How do you sleep at night when you advocate the wasting of taxpayer money?

Now that's a thousand pound pig asking a canary to justify why he's so fat...

 

[Rikurzhen]

I will give you a hint. Every case of impersonation fraud the Voter ID tards have posted on this forum as evidence we need Voter ID has been absentee ballot fraud. Every single one!.

I don't think so. This doesn't look like absentee ballot fraud to me:

• In 1970, the witness voted at least 10 times, at 10 different polling places, using bogus registration cards. He was part of a crew of five persons, each of whom was paid $40 for the day's activities.
• In the 1972 Democratic primary election, he received a promotion to crew chief, running a crew of five members.
• By 1974, his crew had grown to eight members, each of whom voted in excess of 20 times, and there were approximately 20 other crews operating during that election.
• In 1976, the grand jury witness led a crew of five people who cast at least 100 fraudulent votes.
• Moreover, the same witness had been present at a meeting prior to election day that was "attended by twenty crew chiefs."[21] If the other crews averaged as many fraudulent votes, then there would have been at least 2,000 phony votes cast in that election without detection by precinct poll workers or election officials.
• By 1982, the witness "was to have provided twenty-five workers to vote in a Congressional primary election again using bogus voter registration cards."[22]

 

[Rikurzhen]

None of that equates to you having supported your assertion that anyone wants to suppress votes. People proving who they are doesn't stop anyone legitimate from voting. No one. And every State that requires ID offers a free ID to vote, so there is no cost. You haven't established anything, you just make a blind accusation.

Are Voter IDs made by elves? Because that is the only possible way they could be "no cost."

Taxpayers pay for "free" Voter IDs, the same way taxpayers pay for "free" roads.

Voter ID costs the taxpayers money. A lot of money. Therefore, you must demonstrate the need to spend that money.

Since Voter ID does not stop fraud, you are wasting taxpayer money. And a lot of time.

Suddenly a liberal is worried about government wasting money. That's classic...

They're never so spastic unless it's about protecting something that they hold dear - Democrats stealing elections is something that liberals desperately want to protect.

 

[g5000]

None of that equates to you having supported your assertion that anyone wants to suppress votes. People proving who they are doesn't stop anyone legitimate from voting. No one. And every State that requires ID offers a free ID to vote, so there is no cost. You haven't established anything, you just make a blind accusation.

Are Voter IDs made by elves? Because that is the only possible way they could be "no cost."

Taxpayers pay for "free" Voter IDs, the same way taxpayers pay for "free" roads.

Voter ID costs the taxpayers money. A lot of money. Therefore, you must demonstrate the need to spend that money.

Since Voter ID does not stop fraud, you are wasting taxpayer money. And a lot of time.

That is a lie.

It's a fact. No one has ever provided evidence it stops fraud.

You tards have posted many, many, many examples of voter fraud over the years, and yet NOT ONE of them is able to be stopped or prevented by Voter ID. But for some unfathomable reason, you keep posting examples of poll worker fraud and absentee ballot fraud thinking you are proving we need Voter ID!

It is amazing.

So it is 100 percent FACT that Voter ID does not stop fraud, and you are wasting time and money.

 

[boedicca]

Voter ID proponents often whine that you have to show ID to get food stamps, therefore you should have to show ID to vote.

It is one of the dumber arguments.

So I asked that since you have to show ID to get food stamps, why not register people to vote when they get food stamps.

M14 said the process is different for getting food stamps than it is registering to vote, thus once again PROVING MY POINT that these are apples and oranges fallacies.

As I noted earlier in the thread: signing people up to vote when they receive transfer payment is COERCION.

And as I also noted: this attitude that people are owed things without exerting any effort whatsoever is incredibly corrosive to our society. If someone values his right to vote, he will assert it. If he doesn't, psychologically tying his receipt of transfer payment to voting is corrupt.

It's not surprising that you support such a program.

 

[kaz]

You just want to waste tax dollars for no reason at all. Pathetic.

LOL, you're a joke. Yeah, I like wasting taxpayer money, I'm all about that. I mean you look at all government spends, clearly this is what is going to make or break us...

 

[boilermaker55]

But again, what is the percentage of illegal votes to the total number of voters. Either nation wide or state(s) wide?
It is trying to find a solution to where there is no real problem.

Voter fraud and voter ID is trying to find a solution to a problem that does not exist.

The meaningful exercise of the right to vote is based on the prospective voter being who he says he is and is voting in the right place.
Thus, the state has a compelling interest to verify that the person at the poll is who he says he is.
The least restrictive means to this end is to require a state issue photo ID.

All of this is true regardless of any demonstrable issue with voter fraud.

 

[boedicca]

None of that equates to you having supported your assertion that anyone wants to suppress votes. People proving who they are doesn't stop anyone legitimate from voting. No one. And every State that requires ID offers a free ID to vote, so there is no cost. You haven't established anything, you just make a blind accusation.

Are Voter IDs made by elves? Because that is the only possible way they could be "no cost."

Taxpayers pay for "free" Voter IDs, the same way taxpayers pay for "free" roads.

Voter ID costs the taxpayers money. A lot of money. Therefore, you must demonstrate the need to spend that money.

Since Voter ID does not stop fraud, you are wasting taxpayer money. And a lot of time.

That is a lie.

It's a fact. No one has ever provided evidence it stops fraud.

You tards have posted many, many, many examples of voter fraud over the years, and yet NOT ONE of them is able to be stopped or prevented by Voter ID. But for some unfathomable reason, you keep posting examples of poll worker fraud and absentee ballot fraud thinking you are proving we need Voter ID!

It is amazing.

So it is 100 percent FACT that Voter ID does not stop fraud, and you are wasting time and money.

Scuze me. We see frequent reports that people voted twice, dead people voted, illegal aliens voted....proper ID checking at polling places would stop a great deal of this.

 

[boilermaker55]

And what do you do with mail in votes, early votes and absentee votes?

How do you verify the identity of a mail in vote?

Can we have one strict ID system and one that only requires a signature?

here is how that is done here.......


To register to vote you must complete a brief voter registration application on paper or online. When you register online, the system will search the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) database for your California driver license or identification card number, date of birth, and last four digits of your social security number. If your information is found and you authorize elections officials' use of your DMV signature, an electronic image of your DMV signature will be added to your voter registration application after you click "submit" at the end of the online application. If there is no signature on file with DMV, all of your information will be transmitted to your county elections office; you will just need to click "print," sign the paper application, and mail it. Yourcounty elections officialwill contact you when your voter registration application is approved or when more information is needed to confirm your eligibility.

 

[tinydancer]

1. Electoral integrity. It's a simple notion utilized in democracies and struggling democracies across the globe.

   And yet you cannot prove Voter ID stops fraud.

One should constantly strive to keep the integrity of the voting process no matter what country you live in.

Just one election on any level be it municipal, state or federal that has been won by voter fraud would be one election too many.

It's that simple. That's why President Jimmy Carter's election monitoring group as well as others have countries that they monitor maintain a high standard of electoral integrity.

It's a no brainer.


Voter Identification Requirements
and
Public International Law
:
An Examination of Africa and Latin America

http://www.cartercenter.org/resources/pdfs/peace/democracy/des/voter-identification-requirements.pdf

 

[boedicca]

But again, what is the percentage of illegal votes to the total number of voters. Either nation wide or state(s) wide?
It is trying to find a solution to where there is no real problem.

Voter fraud and voter ID is trying to find a solution to a problem that does not exist.

The meaningful exercise of the right to vote is based on the prospective voter being who he says he is and is voting in the right place.
Thus, the state has a compelling interest to verify that the person at the poll is who he says he is.
The least restrictive means to this end is to require a state issue photo ID.

All of this is true regardless of any demonstrable issue with voter fraud.

Fraudulent votes can tip elections when the margin is very tight. The point is to have fair elections, bub.

 

[g5000]

I will give you a hint. Every case of impersonation fraud the Voter ID tards have posted on this forum as evidence we need Voter ID has been absentee ballot fraud. Every single one!.

I don't think so. This doesn't look like absentee ballot fraud to me:

• In 1970, the witness voted at least 10 times, at 10 different polling places, using bogus registration cards. He was part of a crew of five persons, each of whom was paid $40 for the day's activities.
• In the 1972 Democratic primary election, he received a promotion to crew chief, running a crew of five members.
• By 1974, his crew had grown to eight members, each of whom voted in excess of 20 times, and there were approximately 20 other crews operating during that election.
• In 1976, the grand jury witness led a crew of five people who cast at least 100 fraudulent votes.
• Moreover, the same witness had been present at a meeting prior to election day that was "attended by twenty crew chiefs."[21] If the other crews averaged as many fraudulent votes, then there would have been at least 2,000 phony votes cast in that election without detection by precinct poll workers or election officials.
• By 1982, the witness "was to have provided twenty-five workers to vote in a Congressional primary election again using bogus voter registration cards."[22]

Here are the ways we can prevent fraud, which I have advocated on this forum many times:

1. Tighten up voter registration. Our entire system hinges on voter registration being done properly.

2. Purge dead and relocated voters from voter registration rolls. This process needs to be done properly. Some attempts in the past have fucked this up and disenrolled eligible citizens.

3. Use the voting monitoring system being used in several states already. This computerized system monitors for someone voting twice in different precincts and even in different states.

All of these would do far more to prevent fraud than Voter ID. The example you gave would have not happened if voter registration was being done properly.

Voter ID is not necessary. Tightening up the existing system will be far more effective.

 

[tinydancer]

You know Democrats are cheating, there is no other reason for you to want it to continue. If fraud were benefiting Republicans instead of you, you'd be setting yourself on fire in Lafayette Park demanding voter ID.

It is Voter ID proponents who want fraud to continue. They are deliberately wasting taxpayer money on a completely ineffective government program. That money could be put to use toward things which would actually stop fraud.

Therefore, it is blazingly obvious Voter ID proponents want fraud to continue. They have wasted money on a government program which allows it to continue unabated.

How do you sleep at night when you advocate the wasting of taxpayer money?

So Jimmy Carter, the Carter Center, the United Nations are all into fraud.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Kiss my ass. Ridiculous.

 

[g5000]

Fraudulent votes can tip elections when the margin is very tight. The point is to have fair elections, bub.

Voter ID won't help there. It is ineffective.

Tell me how many illegal votes would have to be cast to ensure any of these tight Senate races will tip toward the Democrat.

Go ahead. How many?

Pick any Senate race, and tell me how many illegal votes would need to be cast to ensure a Democratic victory.