Voter ID terrifies Democrats

[daveman]

You did not provide a link in your post to the article you quoted about the 6 to 3 decision. Perhaps because the full context actually supports what I have been saying?

I never said voter ID requirements, per se, were unconstitutional. I said that some states have requirements which are overly burdensome and disenfranchise voters. Just because you provided an example of a state that does not have an overly burdensome requirement does not take anythiing away from that.

I also asked for evidence of voter fraud which proves the necessity of voter ID. In the very Supreme Court decision you cited, Justice Stevens said the evidence such fraud was occurring was flimsy at best.

St. Louis Beacon - Supreme Court upholds voter-ID; Missouri's voter-ID still out


So that supports the point I have been making over and over.

I also mentioned earlier in the topic that those who claim all voter ID laws have been upheld are making a false claim. I specifically mentioned Missouri.



Again, supports my point I have made over and over. Disenfranchisement is actually happening with some voter ID laws.

Minnesota Leads the Nation in Voter Fraud Convictions -- ST. PAUL, Minn., Oct. 13, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ --

ROTFLMFAO, the link to Voter Fraud!!!!!!

Election Integrity Watch » Home

Yes, voter fraud. You know, the thing you morons said never happened.

 

[daveman]

Do you read your own links?



Geez. That's twice now you have accidentally supported my position.

And at least twice now you've failed to understand the point.

I understand you are providing links which don't prove a thing except that our voter registration process is broken.

So why you are posting them when they have nothing to do with needing a voter ID requirement is beyond me.

Something else that's beyond you:

You can have 100% clean voter rolls all day long...but without showing ID at the poll, you don't know if the person casting the vote is the person registered.

You know, the part of my post you edited out in a desperate attempt to believe it doesn't exist.

 

[Steelplate]

Who said it never happened? We're just saying that it happens so rarely and has such little impact, that it's not worth disenfranchising millions of UNITED STATES CITIZENS.

 

[g5000]

I repeat: You can have 100% clean voter rolls, but without presenting ID at the polls, you can't know that the person who's voting is the person who registered.

You leftists are so transparent.

I am not a leftist. I am a lifelong Republican and retired military. Conservative to the core.

What you don't seem to understand is that your love of government control has carried you away. You have become so paranoid about imaginary people voting as someone they aren't that you are willing to place another impediment on our constitutional rights.

For someone to want less government controls over their rights is NOT LEFTIST, you goon! Far from it!

So if you want more government interference in the excercising of your rights, PROVE IT IS NECESSARY.

All the stupid links you keep providing are evidence that we DON'T need voter ID. They are evidence the government controls in place are seriously broken. And you want to add MORE?!?!

 

[M14 Shooter]

Because it'll make it harder for them to commit voter fraud.
That's it. That's all there is. None of their other objections hold any water.

The only thing which does not hold water is the assumption such voter fraud which only voter ID could fix is even occurring.

At some point, if you;re honest, you're going to understand that your idea that you have to show that voter fraud is happenig in order for the ID requirement to be legit is - wait for it -- a false premise.

You -continue- to ignore the compelling state interest involved in making sure people are who they say they are, an interest that exists regardless of the actual occourance of verifiable voter fraud. At this point it is clear that you ignore this because you don't have any way to counter it, and so, I will accept your concession of that point.

Said concession, of course, invalidates all of your arguments thus far.

 

[daveman]

So let's recap.

1) In the real world, real citizens who are registered voters have been disenfranchised by some overly burdensome voter ID laws. Both the Department of Justice and the Supreme Court have supported this fact.

2) No one, anywhere, has provided evidence of fraud which is so prevalent as to affect the outcome of elections which cannot be prevented by fixing the existing voter registration process. Again, the Supreme Court admits this.

3) Therefore, no one is able to provide evidence that the disenfranchising of eligible voters is necessary.

ST. PAUL, Minn., Oct. 13, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Minnesota Majority today released a report on voter fraud convictions to date stemming from Minnesota's 2008 general election. The report finds that 113 individuals who voted illegally in the 2008 election have been convicted of the crime, "ineligible voter knowingly votes" under Minnesota Statute 201.014.

Minnesota Leads the Nation in Voter Fraud Convictions - Yahoo! News

Since you asked...

That is just ONE state genius.

2008 Minnesota U.S. Senate Election: Results after election contest[1][2][64][65]
Party Candidate Votes
DFL Al Franken 1,212,629
Republican Norm Coleman 1,212,317


The difference?

312 votes.

The report finds that 113 individuals who voted illegally in the 2008 election have been convicted of the crime, "ineligible voter knowingly votes" under Minnesota Statute 201.014.

--

Minnesota's recent charges and convictions stem from research initiated by Minnesota Majority. The research identified upwards of 2,800 ineligible felons believed to have unlawfully voted in Minnesota's 2008 general election.

--

At the time of this report, nearly 200 additional cases are still pending trial.​

So: 113 convictions. 200 more pending cases. 2,800 ineligibles possibly voted.

I believe you anti-democracy leftist morons were claiming no elections have been affected...?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Really?
What's the difference between the ID reqirements for voting and buying a gun?

Name a state, and let's find out.

Indiana voter registration application:

If you are registering to vote in Indiana for the first time, and you are sending this application by mail, you must provide identification documentation. Identification may include a current and valid photo id, current utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, or government document that shows the name and address of the voter.

Can you show your electric bill to register a gun in Indiana?

You cannot register a gun in the state of Indiana, and the issue isn't registration.

But, I suspect you knew that, and have tried to change the particulars of the subject away from someting you know you cannot defeat and to something you knew you could easily shoot down.

Staw, man.

And so, you have done nothing to undermine the legitimnacy of the analogy.

 

[M14 Shooter]

So let's recap.

1) In the real world, real citizens who are registered voters have been disenfranchised by some overly burdensome voter ID laws. Both the Department of Justice and the Supreme Court have supported this fact.

2) No one, anywhere, has provided evidence of fraud which is so prevalent as to affect the outcome of elections which cannot be prevented by fixing the existing voter registration process. Again, the Supreme Court admits this.

3) Therefore, no one is able to provide evidence that the disenfranchising of eligible voters is necessary.

All three of these "points" have been countered without effective rebuttal; your refusal to recognize this and simply ignore it so that you don't have to deal with it indicates that you have no interest in an honest discussion of the issue.

 

[Conservative]

If a person is able to get over the registration hurdle, getting over some stupid voter ID hurdle will be cake.

You guys are focusing on the wrong solution to the problem!

then why are Dems bitching about it, if it's so easy to get the required ID (which is the hurdle according to most dems)?

Because they have no game, and this is one way they choose to try and deflect the voters from the real issues.

 

[daveman]

Who said it never happened? We're just saying that it happens so rarely and has such little impact, that it's not worth disenfranchising millions of UNITED STATES CITIZENS.

What Voter Fraud?

Fredtalk: Rhetorical question

And I was told repeatedly on another board that it simply doesn't exist.

 

[M14 Shooter]

If a person is able to get over the registration hurdle, getting over some stupid voter ID hurdle will be cake.

Even though you have ignored this point numerous times, I will raise it again:

W/O a positive ID check, how do you verify that the person claiming to be thee person on the registration roll, however derived, is actually that person?

 

[daveman]

I repeat: You can have 100% clean voter rolls, but without presenting ID at the polls, you can't know that the person who's voting is the person who registered.

You leftists are so transparent.

I am not a leftist. I am a lifelong Republican and retired military. Conservative to the core.

Thank you for your service. Why are you parroting the Dem programming, then?

What you don't seem to understand is that your love of government control has carried you away. You have become so paranoid about imaginary people voting as someone they aren't that you are willing to place another impediment on our constitutional rights.

: Noob. Read some of my posts. I'm a small-government conservative, and oddly enough, I don't parrot Dem programming.

For someone to want less government controls over their rights is NOT LEFTIST, you goon! Far from it!

No, but for someone to want to enable voter fraud that benefits Democrats IS leftist.

So if you want more government interference in the excercising of your rights, PROVE IT IS NECESSARY.

I have. Look at my post re: the MN election and how close it was, and the number of fraudulent votes cast.

If course, if you like Democrat Al Franken in the Senate, you will see no problem with that.

All the stupid links you keep providing are evidence that we DON'T need voter ID. They are evidence the government controls in place are seriously broken. And you want to add MORE?!?!

I repeat, for the leftist Kool-Aid drinkers:

How do you know the person who registered is the same person who voted?

Without ID -- you don't.

 

[Conservative]

Dead Voters

This link does not provide ANY evidence of fraud.

Bullshit - You Lie!

From the link - "McDaniel’s voting history said she cast a ballot on 11/4/2008 even though she died on 9/13/2008."

Dead People Voting Throughout Florida | www.wftv.com

Thousands of dead Floridians are registered to vote and some in Central Florida had ballots cast in their names long after their deaths.

"That is scary," said Jim Branch.

Branch's mother Marjorie died in 2004 but someone voted for her in 2006. Branch had tried to get his mother removed from the voter rolls.

"It was much easier for me calling Social Security and taking her off not getting any more checks here, than it was that (voter registration)," he sid.

County records show James Santiago voted in the 2006 general election. He too, was dead. His wife, Joann, sees this as an open invitation for voter fraud.

 

[Conservative]

Does anyone have any proof of dead people voting?

Dead People Voting Throughout Florida | www.wftv.com

Thousands of dead Floridians are registered to vote and some in Central Florida had ballots cast in their names long after their deaths.

"That is scary," said Jim Branch.

Branch's mother Marjorie died in 2004 but someone voted for her in 2006. Branch had tried to get his mother removed from the voter rolls.

"It was much easier for me calling Social Security and taking her off not getting any more checks here, than it was that (voter registration)," he sid.

County records show James Santiago voted in the 2006 general election. He too, was dead. His wife, Joann, sees this as an open invitation for voter fraud.

 

[saveliberty]

Who said it never happened? We're just saying that it happens so rarely and has such little impact, that it's not worth disenfranchising millions of UNITED STATES CITIZENS.

A poster neamed g5000 which can be seen four posts back. If the voter ID is not in place, it invites abuse. Being in place reduces the possibility of abuse. Please show me how an ID disenfranchises millions. Source, not your say so.

 

[Steelplate]

Who said it never happened? We're just saying that it happens so rarely and has such little impact, that it's not worth disenfranchising millions of UNITED STATES CITIZENS.

A poster neamed g5000 which can be seen four posts back. If the voter ID is not in place, it invites abuse. Being in place reduces the possibility of abuse. Please show me how an ID disenfranchises millions. Source, not your say so.

First show me where "voter fraud" is a rampant problem that needs an extreme measure such as forcing the poor to travel to DMV's(especially in Wisconsin... where they are closing the ones in poor, Democratic voting areas...Coincidence?).

Like it or not... making it more difficult to vote is going to cause people of little means to simply say "fuck it", and not vote... across the entire country? I think that Millions could be an understatement. That, is voter suppression... and it's definitely premeditated... and you know it.

 

[daveman]

Who said it never happened? We're just saying that it happens so rarely and has such little impact, that it's not worth disenfranchising millions of UNITED STATES CITIZENS.

A poster neamed g5000 which can be seen four posts back. If the voter ID is not in place, it invites abuse. Being in place reduces the possibility of abuse. Please show me how an ID disenfranchises millions. Source, not your say so.

First show me where "voter fraud" is a rampant problem that needs an extreme measure such as forcing the poor to travel to DMV's(especially in Wisconsin... where they are closing the ones in poor, Democratic voting areas...Coincidence?).

Ahem.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...e-of-the-mn-2008-senate-race.html#post4617943

 

[logical4u]

Why no voter id check in Iowa Caucus?

Iowa protects that most fundamental right to vote - if you are a Republican.

The BRAD BLOG : No Photo ID Required to Vote in GOP's Iowa Caucus

I think that is so the imported dems can select the rebulican canidate.....

 

[Conservative]

Does anyone have any proof of dead people voting?

Dead People Voting Throughout Florida | www.wftv.com

Thousands of dead Floridians are registered to vote and some in Central Florida had ballots cast in their names long after their deaths.

"That is scary," said Jim Branch.

Branch's mother Marjorie died in 2004 but someone voted for her in 2006. Branch had tried to get his mother removed from the voter rolls.

"It was much easier for me calling Social Security and taking her off not getting any more checks here, than it was that (voter registration)," he sid.

County records show James Santiago voted in the 2006 general election. He too, was dead. His wife, Joann, sees this as an open invitation for voter fraud.

quick, Shitting Bull... spin this away!

 

[logical4u]

no. it's not. it's to ensure that elderly and poor people and young people have a difficult time voting.

because guess who those people vote for in vast numbers....

yah...nothing partisan about it... sure there isn't.

How do you "know" that the "elderly" and "poor people" and "young people" are citizens? Don't they need some kind of ID to collect government benefits (medicare, medicaid, foodstamps, welfare, etc)? Why do I have to show my ID to buy cigarettes, alcohol, in some cases, cold medicine, drive, get medical treatment, get dental treatment, have my eyes checked, yet my country is being opened to illegal voters (no ID, no proof they are legal) to determine the leaders of the future. Will we have mexican leaders voted into California legislature, governor's office and state offices? Will they be able to force the minority working people in California to "serve" Mexico? Will we have islam members voted into Michigan, because the muslims voting are not citizens, and want Shariah law established in one state, so it can be spread to the other states? Please show these poor people that would be denied the right to vote (I saw some of them at the last election, they could not read, they could not write, and yet they were voting).