Voters Oppose Removing Confederate Monuments

[Slash]

Nobody is upholding the institution of slavery. Slavery is illegal nowadays. The southern people have a right to remember their dead ancestors, whether you find it offensive or not.

Absolutely and it's kind of funny how the ones that use "remembering" as the biggest reason are the ones that argue for erasing the historical documents on the reasoning for the war and the reasoning those monuments were built in the first place.

The ones that tend to fight for them would rather fight for the KKK and dixiecrats who built them for political gain rather than Robert E Lee and Sherman Douglas who wanted that put behind and to honor the troops but not the iconography of the Confederacy.

And I think we are fine remembering those who didn't fight for revolution against Britian but stayed with the British without putting up statues of King George and Benedict Arnold. I think we are fine honoring US Army Major Nidal Hassan as an Army Vet without building statues to him on government property.

 

[ChrisL]

Nobody is upholding the institution of slavery. Slavery is illegal nowadays. The southern people have a right to remember their dead ancestors, whether you find it offensive or not.

Absolutely and it's kind of funny how the ones that use "remembering" as the biggest reason are the ones that argue for erasing the historical documents on the reasoning for the war and the reasoning those monuments were built in the first place.

The ones that tend to fight for them would rather fight for the KKK and dixiecrats who built them for political gain rather than Robert E Lee and Sherman Douglas who wanted that put behind and to honor the troops but not the iconography of the Confederacy.

And I think we are fine remembering those who didn't fight for revolution against Britian but stayed with the British without putting up statues of King George and Benedict Arnold. I think we are fine honoring US Army Major Nidal Hassan as an Army Vet without building statues to him on government property.

Your last bit is nothing but apples and oranges comparisons. This was HALF of the United States we are talking about here, not some nutjob who went on a shooting rampage because "Islam" or the Brits. Lol.

 

[Slash]

They are DEAD, so when you attack the monuments to remember them and the war, then you ARE attacking them.

No. Building that confederate Iconography when Robert E Lee specifically spoke that it should be put away instead is attacking him. Using that as a reason to veil your anti-equal rights stance is stomping over their graves.

It's exactly backwards of what truly honoring a veteran is. Making it about the flawed leadership, the hate, the slavery rather than the people themselves.

 

[Slash]

Your last bit is nothing but apples and oranges comparisons. This was HALF of the United States we are talking about here, not some nutjob who went on a shooting rampage because "Islam" or the Brits. Lol.

Actually apples to apples. I mean sure, his attack on the USA killed a LOT less American soldiers. Nice try though. But however you need to parse things and break them apart so you can sleep at night, feel free.

 

[ChrisL]

Most people agree that slavery is wrong, right or left, doesn't matter. However, these were different times and people's views towards such things were greatly different than they are today. As a matter of fact, several US presidents owned slaves. It was a different world, and THAT is what you need to understand. And slavery also was NOT all about racism, as you liberals try to make it. It was more about CLASS and status in society, socioeconomic status especially. Poor whites were slaves and indentured servants as well. They were crop sharers, etc.

 

[ChrisL]

Your last bit is nothing but apples and oranges comparisons. This was HALF of the United States we are talking about here, not some nutjob who went on a shooting rampage because "Islam" or the Brits. Lol.

Actually apples to apples. I mean sure, his attack on the USA killed a LOT less American soldiers. Nice try though. But however you need to parse things and break them apart so you can sleep at night, feel free.

No, you need to consider things in the correct context instead of always making general sweeping statements and being WILLFULLY ignorant of the causes of things that happened in history, the context of the times, REALITY.

 

[ChrisL]

Even RICH black men owned slaves back then! Although there were many fewer black men and many fewer rich ones, there were SOME who did indeed own slaves themselves. That proves that slavery was more about your status in society than "racism."

 

[Reasonable]

The white supremacists and Trump have undergone universal condemnation so the neonazis on this forum are working overtime thinking they can control the damage..
Ain't working, brown shirts.

 

[ChrisL]

The ignorance of history and everything else is just ASTOUNDING.

 

[Reasonable]

A number of snowflakes in this forum have said that the voters should decide whether Confederate moderates should be taken down. It appears the voters want them left alone. ANTIFA and BLM are a small fringe, and they do not represent the will of the majority. Does anyone believe the left would desist in their attacks on these monuments if a referendum were held and the voters decided to all them to stay?

Voters Oppose Removing Confederate Monuments - Rasmussen Reports™

Four Confederate monuments were removed from New Orleans earlier this month following complaints that they celebrate racism, and now the city of Baltimore has plans to follow suit. But most voters oppose taking away these remnants of the past even if they are unpopular with some.

While proposals have been made to get rid of monuments such as the Jefferson Memorial and the carving on Stone Mountain in Georgia because they honor men who practiced or defended slavery, just 19% of Likely U.S. Voters think the United States should erase symbols of its past history that are out of line with current sentiments. A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 69% oppose erasing these historical symbols. Twelve percent (12%) are undecided.​

IMHO it's State and Local question question, the people in the communities where the monuments in question are located should decide, after all it's the people in the local communities and the States that are affected by them and it's their property that's being used.

A national referendum on such questions would be an infringement upon State Sovereignty and isn't authorized anywhere in the U.S. Constitution, we're supposed to be a Republic not a Unitary Democracy.

Have you not heard?
Lincoln squashed "State Sovereignty", and the "Constitution" when South Carolina tried to leave the Union. A right granted to each state in the Constitution.

There is no right to secede in the Constitution and never was.

Better read it again.............

So you've read the Constitution have ya?
State to us the emolument clause and then point your finger at Trump... like that would ever happen..

 

[Slash]

Most people agree that slavery is wrong, right or left, doesn't matter. However, these were different times and people's views towards such things were greatly different than they are today. As a matter of fact, several US presidents owned slaves. It was a different world, and THAT is what you need to understand. And slavery also was NOT all about racism, as you liberals try to make it. It was more about CLASS and status in society, socioeconomic status especially. Poor whites were slaves and indentured servants as well. They were crop sharers, etc.

Not a liberal. Just because I am anti-KKK anti-Dixiecrat and anti-American rebellion, doesn't make me a liberal. Just because I don't think we all need this "safe space" where we can look at statues of people who founded the only country in the world based on the preservation of slavery doesn't make me a liberal. Just because I don't like how the democrats fought back against civil rights by doing the least honorable things possible and putting up these statues under a not even veiled guise, doesn't make me a liberal. You say most people that agree slavery is wrong. Look at the councils and votes for bringing back these things. Those groups that bastardized this "honoring" by going against the wishes of those that fought are the ones that believe slavery is right.

I never said slavery was about racism. I mean sure, the ONLY slaves they were talking about were black, and they were chattel slaves completely because of the color of their skin, but I never said it was about racism, because they didn't feel black was human even.

Whites were not slaves. A SMALL amount were indentured servants. Paid, working for a limited time. Able to have freedom of religion and freedom to express their culture. Their kids didn't become someone else's property. Rights to vote and marry. Used at times as a diversionary tactic for prison, much like the US military is today. What was it in that UK study? 76 people that were deemed to have been indentured servants sent to the US against their will. Come on.

 

[NYcarbineer]

IMHO it's State and Local question question, the people in the communities where the monuments in question are located should decide, after all it's the people in the local communities and the States that are affected by them and it's their property that's being used.

A national referendum on such questions would be an infringement upon State Sovereignty and isn't authorized anywhere in the U.S. Constitution, we're supposed to be a Republic not a Unitary Democracy.

Have you not heard?
Lincoln squashed "State Sovereignty", and the "Constitution" when South Carolina tried to leave the Union. A right granted to each state in the Constitution.

There is no right to secede in the Constitution and never was.

Better read it again.............

I don't have to. I've won this argument so many times I feel like I should step back and let someone else here win it.

You have not won anything fool. You sound like Hillary talking about the 2nd amendment is negotiable.
But, I have a rule that is not to argue with fools, so whatever............

The Constitution is not negotiable as it applies to secession. Under the Constitution, people are citizens of the United States first,
residents of the various states second.

Secession inevitably violates the constitutional rights of the US citizens in any state that secedes.

 

[g5000]

A number of snowflakes in this forum have said that the voters should decide whether Confederate moderates should be taken down. It appears the voters want them left alone. ANTIFA and BLM are a small fringe, and they do not represent the will of the majority. Does anyone believe the left would desist in their attacks on these monuments if a referendum were held and the voters decided to all them to stay?

Voters Oppose Removing Confederate Monuments - Rasmussen Reports™​

Oh, so you believe in polls today?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Even RICH black men owned slaves back then! Although there were many fewer black men and many fewer rich ones, there were SOME who did indeed own slaves themselves. That proves that slavery was more about your status in society than "racism."

lol, so slavery becomes a good thing if you think the racism has been taken out of it?

Which it hadn't btw.

 

[Slash]

Even RICH black men owned slaves back then! Although there were many fewer black men and many fewer rich ones, there were SOME who did indeed own slaves themselves. That proves that slavery was more about your status in society than "racism."

Yup. And Jews fought in the Nazi Military. Still not getting me on the "Go Slavery" or "Go Hitler" train.

 

[mamooth]

I was being sarcastic.

Why remove a few statues.

Let's just completely erase everything from the Civil War era.

Sounds rather silly, does it not.

indeed. And you're the only one suggesting it.

Why are you suggesting such a thing? As sarcasm, it makes no sense, because your opposition isn't suggesting anything like it.

Your opposition is pointing that statues erected well after the civil war for the specific purpose of being monuments to white supremacy aren't a good thing. Do you disagree?

 

[jc456]

The memorials, monuments, statues or whatever you want to call them, are being removed by local authorities who own the public property where they are on display and fund the cost of maintaining them. A national poll is hence, irrelevant since the people being polled are not responsible for the cost to the local taxpayers and voters of and for the venue of the memorials.

are you truly that naive that you think the local authorities own them? The people own them you stupid fk. Tax payers pay for them to be maintained you stupid fk. I know you were most likely born stupid, you should work on getting past that.

 

[jc456]

I was being sarcastic.

Why remove a few statues.

Let's just completely erase everything from the Civil War era.

Sounds rather silly, does it not.

indeed. And you're the only one suggesting it.

Why are you suggesting such a thing? As sarcasm, it makes no sense, because your opposition isn't suggesting anything like it.

Your opposition is pointing that statues erected well after the civil war for the specific purpose of being monuments to white supremacy aren't a good thing. Do you disagree?

something that offends some doesn't make it a need to remove them. It highlights historic references, and removing it removes the history, like the other poster said. sorry toothers. just sorry, you're wrong.

 

[jc456]

A number of snowflakes in this forum have said that the voters should decide whether Confederate moderates should be taken down. It appears the voters want them left alone. ANTIFA and BLM are a small fringe, and they do not represent the will of the majority. Does anyone believe the left would desist in their attacks on these monuments if a referendum were held and the voters decided to all them to stay?

Voters Oppose Removing Confederate Monuments - Rasmussen Reports™​

Oh, so you believe in polls today?

so you don't?

 

[mamooth]

something that offends some doesn't make it a need to remove them. It highlights historic references, and removing it removes the history, like the other poster said. sorry toothers. just sorry, you're wrong.

So, by your logic, we can't remember WWII properly unless we put up memorials to the Nazis.

Your logic is retarded.