Want gun control? Fight smart.

[ChrisL]

Damn it. Laws only work on the LAW ABIDING people. You cannot make laws geared towards nut cases and expect them to FOLLOW your laws. Good Lord! Just the fact that I have to explain this to fully grown adults is pathetic!

sure you can.

A law abiding person sold Cruz those guns. If it were illegal to sell those guns, he wouldn't hvae been able to buy one.

this isn't complicated.

Why not take a look at how EFFECTIVE your gun control laws have been! IOW, they haven't been effective at ALL! Oh, so throw a few more "feel good" laws out there so you feel like you've "done something"??? All the while you IGNORE the actual problem and want to put a Band Aid (and a cheap dollar store one at that) on it.

Oh, I agree, what we need to do is completely ban private gun ownership like every other civilized country has done.

Anything else is a half measure.

He could buy one from someone who is selling them illegally, dummy. Just like how you get your heroin.

 

[ChrisL]

Chicago had a handgun ban. Meanwhile, they had one of the highest homicide by gun rates in the entire country. Because gun control laws geared towards criminals really works!

 

[ChrisL]

Chicago's pointless handgun ban


In the years following its ban, Washington did not generate a decline in gun murders. In fact, the number of killings rose by 156 percent — at a time when murders nationally increased by just 32 percent. For a while, the city vied regularly for the title of murder capital of America.

Chicago followed a similar course. In the decade after it outlawed handguns, murders jumped by 41 percent, compared with an 18 percent rise in the entire United States.

One problem is that the bans didn't actually have any discernible effect on the availability of guns to people with felonious intent. As with drugs and hookers, when there is a demand for guns, there will always be a supply.

Who places the highest value on owning a firearm? Criminals. Who is least likely to fear being prosecuted for violating the law? Criminals. Who is most likely to have access to illicit dealers? You guessed it.

If we were starting out in a country with zero guns, it might be possible to keep such weapons away from bad guys. But that's not this country, which has more than 200 million firearms in private hands and a large, perpetual supply of legal handguns.

Only a tiny percentage of those weapons has to be diverted to the underground trade for crooks to acquire all the firepower they need. While gun bans greatly impede the law-abiding, they pose only a trivial inconvenience to the lawless.

This is especially true at the local level. Banning guns from one city makes about as much sense as banning them on one block.

It's hard enough to halt the flow of guns over international borders, where governments police traffic. It's impossible to stop them from crossing municipal boundaries — which are unmonitored, undefended and practically invisible.

Tens of thousands of cars enter Washington and Chicago each day from places where guns are easily and legally obtainable. Any of those vehicles could be transporting a carton of pistols to sell to willing thugs. If you're on an island, you're going to get splashed by the waves.

The proponents obviously knew all along this city-by-city approach had serious shortcomings. But they figured it was bound to curtail gun availability somewhat. They also hoped that by prohibiting handguns in one place, they were beginning a bigger process.

First, they expected that other cities and states would follow suit. Second, they wagered that strict controls at the local level would acclimate Americans to new regulations at the national level.

But things didn't work out that way. The persistence of crime in supposedly gun-free zones didn't build support for broader gun control by showing the limits of piecemeal legislation. It weakened the case, by proving that such regulations have little impact on the people who present the biggest danger. Instead of a broad upward avenue, it was a dead end.

 

[ChrisL]

Otis McDonald, 1933-2014

Otis McDonald, 1933-2014: Fought Chicago's gun ban
Man who fought Chicago gun ban felt rights had been taken from African-Americans
April 06, 2014|By Dahleen Glanton, Tribune reporter

• • 3837

• 

The landmark U.S. Supreme Court decision that bears Otis McDonald's name forced Chicago to fall in line with the rest of the country and allow citizens to keep firearms in their homes for self-defense. (Scott Strazzante, Chicago Tribune)
Otis McDonald forever will be known as the man who brought down Chicago's gun ban.

After a long illness, he died Friday, April 4, at the age of 80.

The landmark U.S. Supreme Court decision that bears his name forced Chicago to fall in line with the rest of the country and allow citizens to keep firearms in their homes for self-defense. The justices' 5-4 decision in 2010 said the Second Amendment did indeed apply to the states, effectively ending the city's nearly three-decade handgun ban.

Those in the pro-gun movement called Mr. McDonald a hero. But regardless of where people stood in the tense battle over gun rights, many would say he was courageous.

"The things he went through and the things he felt in order to carry on this campaign against the city of Chicago required bravery and courage, and he had it," said Richard Pearson, executive director of the Illinois State Rifle Association, which brought the lawsuit against the city.

"I described him as a man who wasn't a hero for one event, but a hero every day in his life," Pearson said.

The tall, elderly, soft-spoken man insisted he needed a gun to shield his family from gangs and drug dealers that terrorized his Morgan Park neighborhood. He felt the Constitution gave him that right.

"His love for family drove him," said his nephew Fred Jones. "He loved the Second Amendment but he was more concerned about protecting his family, and the Second Amendment was the avenue to help him do that."

But he was also driven by a force much deeper. Mr. McDonald felt strongly that he had a duty to stand up for the rights that had been taken away from African-Americans during slavery. As he and his wife, Laura, sat in the Supreme Court gallery listening to oral arguments in the lawsuit, it reaffirmed what he felt was his calling.

In an interview with the Tribune after winning the suit, Mr. McDonald said the journey had been a lesson in history. He had come to understand more about his ancestors and the "slave codes" enacted in Southern states during the Civil War that prohibited slaves from owning guns. After slavery was abolished, states adopted "black codes" that kept guns out of the hands of freed blacks.

"There was a wrong done a long time ago that dates back to slavery time," he said in the interview. "I could feel the spirit of those people running through me as I sat in the Supreme Court."

Born in 1933 to Louisiana sharecroppers, Mr. McDonald came to Chicago in 1952 after serving time in the Army. He eventually landed a job as a janitor at the University of Chicago and worked his way up to a maintenance engineer. He had left school at the age of 14, never earning a high school diploma. But while working at the U. of C., he returned to school, earning an associate degree from Kennedy-King College. He retired in 1996.

McDonald v. City of Chicago was a hard-fought battle. The case was filed in 2008 and spent two years working its way through the system. Then-Mayor Richard M. Daley was adamant that the city's ban on handguns remain intact and put the city's full force behind fighting the case in court.

It was the first case in a succession of legal battles that put Chicago and Illinois in the National Rifle Association's line of fire. After the ruling, the gun lobby turned its attention and resources to fight other restrictions. The courts later ruled that Chicago must allow gun ranges within the city limits, though that case is still being litigated. In January, a federal judge ruled that Chicago must allow retail gun shops to operate in the city.

Though Mr. McDonald was not a plaintiff in concealed carry lawsuits against Illinois, he stayed active in the fight until his health failed, attending rallies and speaking to groups. Last year, the Illinois General Assembly was forced to pass a law allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons in the state.

"We couldn't have done it without him," said Valinda Rowe, spokeswoman for IllinoisCarry, a plaintiff in the concealed carry lawsuit.

"He was more than a conqueror of that city's ban on handguns. He was and will always remain a true hero who stood for the rights of men all his adult life, breaking through formidable barriers to make a better life for all those who followed after," Rowe said.

"I don't think he met anybody that did not become his friend," she added.

Jones said his uncle would want to be remembered as a fighter.

"He was a classic warrior," said Jones. "One of his favorite lines was 'If you have not found something you will die for, you have not yet lived.'"

 

[DrLove]

Though David Brooks is one of the last sane Republicans .. the time has come to MARCH!

“Amal and I are so inspired by the courage and eloquence of these young men and women from Stoneman Douglas High School,” Clooney said in a statement. “Our family will be there on March 24 to stand side by side with this incredible generation of young people from all over the country, and in the name of our children Ella and Alexander, we’re donating 500,000 dollars to help pay for this groundbreaking event. Our children’s lives depend on it.”​

Follow in the steps of George Clooney - DONATE!

Home

Pussy

Dotard

 

[Nia88]

I would love to know what law would have stopped that kid from shooting up the school.

Well there was one law back during Jimmy Carters regime, and that was to allow insane people back into society. That right there started the closing of asylums that would of kept people who want to hurt themselves and others.

Jimmy Carter: Mental Health Systems Legislation Message to the Congress Transmitting the Proposed Legislation.

I am today submitting to Congress the Mental Health Systems Act. This proposed legislation establishes a new partnership between the federal government and the states in the planning 'and provision of mental health services. It seeks to assure that the chronically mentally ill no longer face the cruel alternative of unnecessary institutionalization or inadequate care in the community.

When these sick people were allowed out of the institution, soon there were razor blades in apples and needles in candy bars at Halloween. And the rest is history....Liberal compassion ends up killing people...

Mental health laws wouldnt have stopped this guy either. He was apparently OKd by the FBI (or did they just forget?) AND the state welfare office. The childrens office deemed him perfectly sane.

But a ban on assault rifles would have.

 

[OldLady]

I would love to know what law would have stopped that kid from shooting up the school.

Well there was one law back during Jimmy Carters regime, and that was to allow insane people back into society. That right there started the closing of asylums that would of kept people who want to hurt themselves and others.

Jimmy Carter: Mental Health Systems Legislation Message to the Congress Transmitting the Proposed Legislation.

I am today submitting to Congress the Mental Health Systems Act. This proposed legislation establishes a new partnership between the federal government and the states in the planning 'and provision of mental health services. It seeks to assure that the chronically mentally ill no longer face the cruel alternative of unnecessary institutionalization or inadequate care in the community.

When these sick people were allowed out of the institution, soon there were razor blades in apples and needles in candy bars at Halloween. And the rest is history....Liberal compassion ends up killing people...

Mental health laws wouldnt have stopped this guy either. He was apparently OKd by the FBI (or did they just forget?) AND the state welfare office. The childrens office deemed him perfectly sane.

What I heard over the weekend was about a kid who had explosive moments. He was always calm enough when the police or social workers arrived to be deemed "not a threat." He lived with the new family for over three months and was quiet, polite and followed all their rules. He was loving to their animals. What was happening in his mind, he kept to himself all too well.
The FBI did "forget," but he may well have bullshitted his way out of that interview, too.
He had ten guns. Why did he choose the AR-15? We all know why.

Hey media fed puppet, you piss abut ar15's, what about all these?

And this is just a hand full you moron

Don't you dare "you moron" me. I don't give a shit what it looks like. If it can fire dozens of bullets per minute into a crowd, we don't need it on the streets.

 

[BlackSand]

AR 15 s Are not hunting long guns.

The 2nd Amendment doesn't mention anything about hunting ...

.

 

[BlackSand]

But a ban on assault rifles would have.

The Columbine School Shooting occurred during the Assault Weapons Ban ...

.

 

[TNHarley]

I would love to know what law would have stopped that kid from shooting up the school.

Well there was one law back during Jimmy Carters regime, and that was to allow insane people back into society. That right there started the closing of asylums that would of kept people who want to hurt themselves and others.

Jimmy Carter: Mental Health Systems Legislation Message to the Congress Transmitting the Proposed Legislation.

I am today submitting to Congress the Mental Health Systems Act. This proposed legislation establishes a new partnership between the federal government and the states in the planning 'and provision of mental health services. It seeks to assure that the chronically mentally ill no longer face the cruel alternative of unnecessary institutionalization or inadequate care in the community.

When these sick people were allowed out of the institution, soon there were razor blades in apples and needles in candy bars at Halloween. And the rest is history....Liberal compassion ends up killing people...

Mental health laws wouldnt have stopped this guy either. He was apparently OKd by the FBI (or did they just forget?) AND the state welfare office. The childrens office deemed him perfectly sane.

But a ban on assault rifles would have.

Do you even logic? There would have still been hundreds of different kinds of guns to buy.
You guys really need to grow up and THINK

 

[TNHarley]

I would love to know what law would have stopped that kid from shooting up the school.

Well there was one law back during Jimmy Carters regime, and that was to allow insane people back into society. That right there started the closing of asylums that would of kept people who want to hurt themselves and others.

Jimmy Carter: Mental Health Systems Legislation Message to the Congress Transmitting the Proposed Legislation.

I am today submitting to Congress the Mental Health Systems Act. This proposed legislation establishes a new partnership between the federal government and the states in the planning 'and provision of mental health services. It seeks to assure that the chronically mentally ill no longer face the cruel alternative of unnecessary institutionalization or inadequate care in the community.

When these sick people were allowed out of the institution, soon there were razor blades in apples and needles in candy bars at Halloween. And the rest is history....Liberal compassion ends up killing people...

Mental health laws wouldnt have stopped this guy either. He was apparently OKd by the FBI (or did they just forget?) AND the state welfare office. The childrens office deemed him perfectly sane.

What I heard over the weekend was about a kid who had explosive moments. He was always calm enough when the police or social workers arrived to be deemed "not a threat." He lived with the new family for over three months and was quiet, polite and followed all their rules. He was loving to their animals. What was happening in his mind, he kept to himself all too well.
The FBI did "forget," but he may well have bullshitted his way out of that interview, too.
He had ten guns. Why did he choose the AR-15? We all know why.

Hey media fed puppet, you piss abut ar15's, what about all these?

And this is just a hand full you moron

Don't you dare "you moron" me. I don't give a shit what it looks like. If it can fire dozens of bullets per minute into a crowd, we don't need it on the streets.

How many guns made do you think CANT do that? Good lord.

 

[BlackSand]

...
If it can fire dozens of bullets per minute into a crowd, we don't need it on the streets.

It doesn't mention that anywhere in the Second Amendment ...
You are going to have to change the Constitution if you are going to try and make it mean something it doesn't already.

.

 

[OldLady]

...
If it can fire dozens of bullets per minute into a crowd, we don't need it on the streets.

It doesn't mention that anywhere in the Second Amendment ...
You are going to have to change the Constitution if you are going to try and make it mean something it doesn't already.

.

There are different interpretations of the 2nd Amendment and I'm not a constitutional scholar, so I'm not going to get into it with you. However, I certainly don't think that EVERYONE believes as you do that the 2nd is an automatic stop sign forbidding regulation on gun ownership. You are stating an opinion as a fact.

 

[OldLady]

Well there was one law back during Jimmy Carters regime, and that was to allow insane people back into society. That right there started the closing of asylums that would of kept people who want to hurt themselves and others.

Jimmy Carter: Mental Health Systems Legislation Message to the Congress Transmitting the Proposed Legislation. When these sick people were allowed out of the institution, soon there were razor blades in apples and needles in candy bars at Halloween. And the rest is history....Liberal compassion ends up killing people...

Mental health laws wouldnt have stopped this guy either. He was apparently OKd by the FBI (or did they just forget?) AND the state welfare office. The childrens office deemed him perfectly sane.

What I heard over the weekend was about a kid who had explosive moments. He was always calm enough when the police or social workers arrived to be deemed "not a threat." He lived with the new family for over three months and was quiet, polite and followed all their rules. He was loving to their animals. What was happening in his mind, he kept to himself all too well.
The FBI did "forget," but he may well have bullshitted his way out of that interview, too.
He had ten guns. Why did he choose the AR-15? We all know why.

Hey media fed puppet, you piss abut ar15's, what about all these?

And this is just a hand full you moron

Don't you dare "you moron" me. I don't give a shit what it looks like. If it can fire dozens of bullets per minute into a crowd, we don't need it on the streets.

How many guns made do you think CANT do that? Good lord.

I've heard that bullshit argument before. You know AR-15's are faster and more powerful. Why are you lying?

 

[BlackSand]

There are different interpretations of the 2nd Amendment and I'm not a constitutional scholar, so I'm not going to get into it with you. However, I certainly don't think that EVERYONE believes as you do that the 2nd is an automatic stop sign forbidding regulation on gun ownership. You are stating an opinion as a fact.

What I want to believe about what other people think ...
What I want the Constitution to state or how I want other people to interpret it ...
In no way changes what the Constitution does actually state ... And that is the only fact.

People only have problems interpreting the Constitution if they want to make it mean something it doesn't ...

.

 

[TNHarley]

Mental health laws wouldnt have stopped this guy either. He was apparently OKd by the FBI (or did they just forget?) AND the state welfare office. The childrens office deemed him perfectly sane.

What I heard over the weekend was about a kid who had explosive moments. He was always calm enough when the police or social workers arrived to be deemed "not a threat." He lived with the new family for over three months and was quiet, polite and followed all their rules. He was loving to their animals. What was happening in his mind, he kept to himself all too well.
The FBI did "forget," but he may well have bullshitted his way out of that interview, too.
He had ten guns. Why did he choose the AR-15? We all know why.

Hey media fed puppet, you piss abut ar15's, what about all these?

And this is just a hand full you moron

Don't you dare "you moron" me. I don't give a shit what it looks like. If it can fire dozens of bullets per minute into a crowd, we don't need it on the streets.

How many guns made do you think CANT do that? Good lord.

I've heard that bullshit argument before. You know AR-15's are faster and more powerful. Why are you lying?

Lol i didnt lie. I asked a QUESTION. Do you know what a QUESTION is?
You said If it can fire dozens of bullets per minute into a crowd, we don't need it on the streets
Do you understand how many different types of weapons can do that? You are basically saying you want to ban half our guns. And you expect RATIONAL debate? This is how you "fight smart?"

 

[TNHarley]

Oldlady has admitted she knows nothing about firearms. Just her knee jerk emotional responses. Maybe she should do her side a favor and zip it.
At least leave the argument to people that know the difference between a clip and magazine.

 

[OldLady]

There are different interpretations of the 2nd Amendment and I'm not a constitutional scholar, so I'm not going to get into it with you. However, I certainly don't think that EVERYONE believes as you do that the 2nd is an automatic stop sign forbidding regulation on gun ownership. You are stating an opinion as a fact.

What I want to believe about what other people think ...
What I want the Constitution to state or how I want other people to interpret it ...
In no way changes what the Constitution does actually state ... And that is the only fact.

People only have problems interpreting the Constitution if they want to make it mean something it doesn't ...

.

I'm not going to try to posit an educated opinion on a complex issue based on centuries of historic case law and interpretation. You go for it.
I'll let people who know what they're talking about argue the case. There are plenty who believe the 2nd would allow banning certain types of guns. AR-15's were illegal for 10 years and the law wasn't overturned. Why do you think that is?

 

[Rustic]

I would love to know what law would have stopped that kid from shooting up the school.

Well there was one law back during Jimmy Carters regime, and that was to allow insane people back into society. That right there started the closing of asylums that would of kept people who want to hurt themselves and others.

Jimmy Carter: Mental Health Systems Legislation Message to the Congress Transmitting the Proposed Legislation.

I am today submitting to Congress the Mental Health Systems Act. This proposed legislation establishes a new partnership between the federal government and the states in the planning 'and provision of mental health services. It seeks to assure that the chronically mentally ill no longer face the cruel alternative of unnecessary institutionalization or inadequate care in the community.

When these sick people were allowed out of the institution, soon there were razor blades in apples and needles in candy bars at Halloween. And the rest is history....Liberal compassion ends up killing people...

Mental health laws wouldnt have stopped this guy either. He was apparently OKd by the FBI (or did they just forget?) AND the state welfare office. The childrens office deemed him perfectly sane.

But a ban on assault rifles would have.

Na, People are determined to kill with whatever means necessary. Not having an AR will never stop them...

 

[featherlite]

No law will completely solve anything. This guy bought them legally. His past behavior and actions should have resulted in a big "no we cant sell this to you"
... keep on googling bs. Young people are at least trying to do something.