War on The Rich: Dumbest Idea in History of Man

[Boss]

Well I believe if an adult is working 40 hours per week and is living in poverty then I don't care if they get gov't assistance. Who am I to deny someone enough money to eat? The last thing I want is what is happening in China. Most people working for low wages and unbeatable air. They need some massive regulations on their industry because when one cannot breathe the air something must be done.

You need to study some world history. What happened in China was, in 1949, Mao Zedong led a people's revolution against the Nationalist government on the meme of "the richest 1% have all the wealth and the other 99% have nothing!" Sound familiar? Seems like we've heard this meme recently, doesn't it?

So they take control of government and institute all kinds of reforms, stomp out the "greedy capitalists" by killing them and taking their wealth. Divided up the land so that everyone had their "fair share" and all was supposed to be hunky-dory, but it didn't work as planned. Corruption was rampant, there was no infrastructure to support the industrialization, capitalist trade became essentially non-existent, and China was plunged into economic darkness for 40 years.

It wasn't until 1978 that China began to again reform and re-institute capitalist global trade alliances. But they are 50 years behind the rest of the industrialized world with 4 times the population of our country. The mess that Mao and his policies left behind are still being dealt with. But this whole "class warfare" and "richest 1%" bullshit came from Mao and China. For some reason, liberal morons think it will work in America this time!

I have nothing against helping those in need or cleaning up the environment, but it HAS to be done intelligently and it HAS to be done under a vibrant and growing free market capitalist system. There is no other way for an economy to generate the kind or wealth to do those things. We can do it, but we have to do it through economic growth and prosperity and not statist socialism.

 

[MikeK]

Is that what they did in Detroit with the auto industry?

The cause of the Detroit debacle was greed, complacency, and ignorance on the part of UAW membership.

As I've pointed out, competent union leadership will investigate an employer's financial status, which was done by the UAW managers, who called a special meeting (which was thinly attended) and advised that low sales volume precluded any hope of a pay raise in the coming contract, and that a $1.25/hour reduction was needed to prevent a general shut-down.

Spurred by vocal opponents of competent UAW leadership, the greedy, complacent, and largely ignorant membership accused the union of "selling out" and threatened to strike if no raise was forthcoming.

The rest we know.

It must be understood that labor unions, like national unions, are democracies. Union leaders, like national leaders, are elected and critical issues are decided by popular vote. Greed, ignorance and complacency on the part of UAW membership was directly responsible for what happened to Detroit. If that membership had attended meetings, paid attention to critical issues, and believed their existing hourly wage was more than fair, they would have understood the situation and accepted the expedient contract.

So rather than allowing this one outstanding example of negative performance to stain your overall impression of unions, consider the glowing histories and the remarkable benefits achieved by such unions as the IBofT, ILA, ILGWU, IBEW, and many others.

Being a union member requires more than simply paying dues.[/QUOTE]

 

[MikeK]

Well I believe if an adult is working 40 hours per week and is living in poverty then I don't care if they get gov't assistance. Who am I to deny someone enough money to eat? The last thing I want is what is happening in China. Most people working for low wages and unbeatable air. They need some massive regulations on their industry because when one cannot breathe the air something must be done.

This is not China.

China's primary problem is too many people and not enough supportive resources.

 

[MikeK]

How can a little bit of gov't assistance bother people? Cheapskates.

I find it hard to believe this question is not a sarcastic joke. But just in case it's not, do you realize that as a taxpayer your (presumably) hard-earned money is being used to supplement WalMart's payroll, which ultimately contributes to the ninety billion dollar fortune of WalMart's owner, the Walton family?

If these greedy billionaires would pay their employees a living wage, they would still be exorbitantly wealthy, just not quite as wealthy as they are now. And there would be no need for you and me to subsidize their employee's wages.

It's not a matter of us being "cheapskates." It's a simple matter of right and wrong. It's a matter of not being made damn fools by the Waltons and the government officials who allow them to get away with it.

 

[Boss]

Is that what they did in Detroit with the auto industry?

The cause of the Detroit debacle was greed, complacency, and ignorance on the part of UAW membership.

As I've pointed out, competent union leadership will investigate an employer's financial status, which was done by the UAW managers, who called a special meeting (which was thinly attended) and advised that low sales volume precluded any hope of a pay raise in the coming contract, and that a $1.25/hour reduction was needed to prevent a general shut-down.

Spurred by vocal opponents of competent UAW leadership, the greedy, complacent, and largely ignorant membership accused the union of "selling out" and threatened to strike if no raise was forthcoming.

The rest we know.

It must be understood that labor unions, like national unions, are democracies. Union leaders, like national leaders, are elected and critical issues are decided by popular vote. Greed, ignorance and complacency on the part of UAW membership was directly responsible for what happened to Detroit. If that membership had attended meetings, paid attention to critical issues, and believed their existing hourly wage was more than fair, they would have understood the situation and accepted the expedient contract.

So rather than allowing this one outstanding example of negative performance to stain your overall impression of unions, consider the glowing histories and the remarkable benefits achieved by such unions as the IBofT, ILA, ILGWU, IBEW, and many others.

Being a union member requires more than simply paying dues.

LMAO... Oh, okay... Well that's real "convenient" man... So unions are all great and wonderful when they are working to get all that extra pay and benefits, but when they suck their victim dry, it's suddenly the fault of the membership!

Sort of like liberal politics.

 

[Boss]

How can a little bit of gov't assistance bother people? Cheapskates.

I find it hard to believe this question is not a sarcastic joke. But just in case it's not, do you realize that as a taxpayer your (presumably) hard-earned money is being used to supplement WalMart's payroll, which ultimately contributes to the ninety billion dollar fortune of WalMart's owner, the Walton family?

If these greedy billionaires would pay their employees a living wage, they would still be exorbitantly wealthy, just not quite as wealthy as they are now. And there would be no need for you and me to subsidize their employee's wages.

It's not a matter of us being "cheapskates." It's a simple matter of right and wrong. It's a matter of not being made damn fools by the Waltons and the government officials who allow them to get away with it.

You should shut up with the anti-Walmart propaganda speech, we've heard it a dozen times in this thread alone. No one's tax money is being used to supplement Walmart's payroll or contribute to the Walton fortune. That's a load of horse shit and everyone with a brain knows it.

Besides, you've already presented the answer to the problem... COSTCO! Those poor souls who are suffering so badly under the greed and oppression of the Walton family should simply go get a job with Costco! See we don't live in a 19th century dynasty where you are forced to do the job the government gives you, we are a free society who are able to work where we please.

 

[HenryBHough]

The takeaway from all this is that Walmart, as a patriotic duty, needs to implement as much automation and robotics as possible and lay off 90% of their workers. Then the remaining 10% would be entitled to and would receive much higher pay because of their expertise in programming automation systems and robots.

 

[Boss]

The takeaway from all this is that Walmart, as a patriotic duty, needs to implement as much automation and robotics as possible and lay off 90% of their workers. Then the remaining 10% would be entitled to and would receive much higher pay because of their expertise in programming automation systems and robots.

You're pretty much spot on here. In fact, McDonalds is test marketing an automated system now, which will become the future of McDonalds if the libs succeed with their wage hike plans. The automated systems will handle every aspect of operation, from taking the order, monetary transaction, preparing the food and delivering to the customer. It is more efficient and with less error... and computers don't demand $15 an hour or spit in your food. Each location will have two staff members, one to ensure the computers are running properly and one to load the raw ingredients. No more staffs of 8 people standing around with their finger in their nose getting your order wrong consistently.

 

[initforme]

Maybe people will get smart enough not to eat McDonald's because we can't really classify it as food, Then McDonald's would close up shop. Oh the horror.

 

[Boss]

Maybe people will get smart enough not to eat McDonald's because we can't really classify it as food, Then McDonald's would close up shop. Oh the horror.

When my kids were young, I came to absolutely LOATHE McDonalds. (They loved it!) I would still prefer to eat somewhere else most of the time... but... for some strange and unexplained reason, about once or twice a year, I get this craving for a Big Mac, and nothing else will do!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

No capitalist is in business out of the goodness of their heart to help the masses..

wrong wrong wrong. If you get an MBA or read the big business best sellers like Good to Great you learn the oppposite. If someone is doing it just for money or greed he won't do it nearly as well as someone who really cares about serving his customers. This is why they go on long after they have made millions. They love what they do.

Perhaps you misconstrued what I am saying. A capitalist is not in business to break even and not realize a profit from his efforts. Yes, most successful capitalists are doing what they love and genuinely want to serve their customers. And they want their customers to be happy as well. They are not greedy, they are not doing it "just for money" and I didn't say that. However, a "capitalist" who sets out to simply provide something without realizing any profit financially, is called a "philanthropist" and not a "capitalist."

No capitalist is in business out of the goodness of their heart to help the masses..

wrong wrong wrong. If you get an MBA or read the big business best sellers like Good to Great you learn the oppposite. If someone is doing it just for money or greed he won't do it nearly as well as someone who really cares about serving his customers. This is why they go on long after they have made millions. They love what they do.

Perhaps you misconstrued what I am saying. A capitalist is not in business to break even and not realize a profit from his efforts. Yes, most successful capitalists are doing what they love and genuinely want to serve their customers. And they want their customers to be happy as well. They are not greedy, they are not doing it "just for money" and I didn't say that. However, a "capitalist" who sets out to simply provide something without realizing any profit financially, is called a "philanthropist" and not a "capitalist."

great points!

Yes sir, the economic professors at Harvard Business School must be proud of you two. Or was that Wharton that you two attended? LMAO.

dear, if you find the ideas mistaken try to put your objection into words or admit as a typical liberal you lack the IQ to defend what you say.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

WalMart has determined that there are people willing to work at an average of $12 an hour.

That's because of a job shortage and right-to-work laws, which were legislated expressly to eliminate unions.

yes a liberal jobs shortage created by liberal unions and liberal taxes driving 40 million jobs offshore, and by 20 million liberal illegals!

 

[RKMBrown]

The takeaway from all this is that Walmart, as a patriotic duty, needs to implement as much automation and robotics as possible and lay off 90% of their workers. Then the remaining 10% would be entitled to and would receive much higher pay because of their expertise in programming automation systems and robots.

Yeah then the libtards will raise taxes to 90% for the remaining workers. Someone has to pay for people to stay home and besides welfare is the best way to grow the economy, so says pelosi.

 

[MikeK]

LMAO... Oh, okay... Well that's real "convenient" man... So unions are all great and wonderful when they are working to get all that extra pay and benefits, but when they suck their victim dry, it's suddenly the fault of the membership!

As I explained, the UAW Executive Board called two meetings, both of which were very thinly attended, and explained the collective industry's financial trouble owing to Japanese competition and a serious decline in sales volume. But opponents of the union's management accused them of selling out, the membership bought it and voted to decline the $1.25/hour reduction on the new contract.

It's been the foregone conclusion of every analyst who commented on what happened in Detroit that the fault lay with complacent union members who failed to pay attention to repeated warnings about the effects of Japanese competition and the need to cut the already excessive hourly wage to catch up. Rather than research the facts they simply took a hard line position and demanded a raise.

They had good union leadership but they ignored warnings and were too lazy to investigate the facts. The situation is analogous to why we end up with presidents like George W. Bush and Barack Obama -- a lazy, ignorant electorate.

Ultimately, what happened to Detroit was the fault of the UAW. But it's no reason to toss out the baby with the bathwater. As I've suggested, the good far outweighs the bad where the overall effect of the union movement is concerned.

 

[MikeK]

You should shut up with the anti-Walmart propaganda speech, we've heard it a dozen times in this thread alone. No one's tax money is being used to supplement Walmart's payroll or contribute to the Walton fortune. That's a load of horse shit and everyone with a brain knows it.

(Headline of Forbes article)

Report: Walmart Workers Cost Taxpayers $6.2 Billion In Public Assistance.

Report Walmart Workers Cost Taxpayers 6.2 Billion In Public Assistance - Forbes

(Close)

So then whose tax money is being used to supplement WalMart employees' pittance wages -- which ultimately adds to the chain's owner's ninety billion dollar personal fortune?

If WalMart's employees were paid a living wage they would neither need nor qualify for public assistance, which, because you apparently didn't know it, is taxpayers' money.

Do you believe the Walton family would find it difficult to get along on a fifty-billion dollar fortune rather than the ninety-billion dollars they presently are hoarding?

 

[MikeK]

The takeaway from all this is that Walmart, as a patriotic duty, needs to implement as much automation and robotics as possible and lay off 90% of their workers. Then the remaining 10% would be entitled to and would receive much higher pay because of their expertise in programming automation systems and robots.

Do you think the prospect of replacing humans with robots and automated processes has not been exhaustively studied and evaluated by high-level corporate researchers? You may rest assured that in every area of the business world where automation and robotization is functionally, economically, and practically feasible it already is implemented or very soon will be.

Have you contemplated the ultimate outcome of extensively replacing human workers with machines? That outcome would be an extensively unemployed population, i.e. millions of humans with no money to buy any of the automated employers' products.

Then what?

 

[Boss]

Ultimately, what happened to Detroit was the fault of the UAW. But it's no reason to toss out the baby with the bathwater.

LMAO.. Oh, okay.

It's when you move away from the free market capitalist system you have a problem with greed. Free market capitalism mitigates greed. Here you argue that's no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but the baby consistently shits in the bathwater.

 

[Boss]

If WalMart's employees were paid a living wage they would neither need nor qualify for public assistance, which, because you apparently didn't know it, is taxpayers' money.

Do you believe the Walton family would find it difficult to get along on a fifty-billion dollar fortune rather than the ninety-billion dollars they presently are hoarding?

I already told ya, shit for brains... the Walton family fortune is not going to be touched. They will still have all $90 billion long after you're pushing up daisies. Any wage increase will come from laying off workers, closing stores, cutting hours or raising prices. Period. End of discussion.

If Walmart's employees are unhappy with their wages they can go apply for work at Costco. Or maybe go back to school and learn to operate a McDonalds computer!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Ultimately, what happened to Detroit was the fault of the UAW. .

too stupid as always! Unions drove 30 million jobs offshore from many many industries, not just autos. The solution is to simple make these cancerous organizations illegal again.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I support an Equal Rights Amendment - the Rich should have the same rights as women, immigrants, the poor, the working poor, the middle class, active duty members of our armed services, in fact, of all citizens.

And of course, women, immigrants, the poor, the working poor, the middle class, active duty members of our armed services, in fact, of all citizens should have equal access to the clubs and tax benefits the power elite enjoy; their needs ought to have the same weight in the Congress as the needs of the Koch's.

Wouldn't it be great to sit and listen to the interaction between the brother's Koch and Justices Scalia and Thomas at one of their events? Go on a hunt with Cheney and his buddy Scalia?

Today the members of the hoi polloi find fees rising for everything - parking meters to state beaches to municipal parks. User fees, sounds equitable but how many times have you seen a Walton heir having a picnic in a public park.