Was I wrong?

TemplarKormac

Political Atheist
Mar 30, 2013
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The Land of Sanctuary
I seek guidance. What I don't want is to be dissuaded of a belief. I seek this guidance to understand where I fall so far in my journey through life. I have been told I was unmerciful, classless, or even sociopathic for holding these beliefs. I hold that I am right, so whether I myself think I am wrong is inconsequential.

We have all heard about the mass killing involving Elliot Rodger. We all heard what one Richard Martinez said in regards to the death of his son, Christopher. He blamed the NRA and 'craven politicians' for his death. He pleaded, "When will this insanity end?!", "How many more must die?"

Now, I believe that he is going through untold amounts of grief over his son. That much is not in doubt. But I also believe he dishonored his son by using him as a means to an end, by attacking gun rights advocates, politicians, and innocent bystanders. I believe his grief did not absolve of the dishonor he wrought.

I think he is reprehensible for using his son in such a manner. I believe that nobody should politicize the death of innocents, even if one of them happens to be their own. I cannot have pity on a father who willfully takes on more grief by needlessly using his own son as a weapon.

Some will say, "I can understand why he lashed out at the NRA, politicians, and others. I would do the same if I lost my son or daughter in a shooting. He doesn't deserve to be attacked."

I contend that he brought those attacks on himself, and deservedly so. Grief does not absolve you of the consequences of what you say. It does not excuse you using it and your dead loved one to wantonly attack those who had nothing to do whatsoever with his death.

Am I wrong for believing these things? If so, why?
 
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It is reprehensible to use the death of a loved one to push a political agenda, to politically provoke someone. That is irreverent, it is disrespectful, and dishonorable.
 
It is reprehensible to use the death of a loved one to push a political agenda, to politically provoke someone. That is irreverent, it is disrespectful, and dishonorable.

If that is what he actually believes it is not.

Christ to republicans EVERYTHING is a conspiracy or entirely about politics.

Does it ever occur to you that MAYBE that guy isn't trying to push a conspiracy on you or win political points... and ACTUALLY thinks this wouldn't have happened in a country with less of a gun culture?
 
I think he is reprehensible for using his son in such a manner. I believe that nobody should politicize the death of innocents, even if one of them happens to be their own. I cannot have pity on a father who willfully takes on more grief by needlessly using his own son as a weapon.

Yes, of course, you should pity his agony. If he is adding to it, as you suggest, still it does not absolve you from pitying his angry. In your mind, he is blaming the wrong things for his son's death. That's fine.

Just don't be harsh on this situation you would not want to face yourself.

I have lost a grown child, my first wife, and two of my sisters, besides my parents, TK.

I pity that man with all of my heart, and I hope soon he will realize he will smile and laugh again, though that seems impossible now.
 
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It is reprehensible to use the death of a loved one to push a political agenda, to politically provoke someone. That is irreverent, it is disrespectful, and dishonorable.

If that is what he actually believes it is not.

Christ to republicans EVERYTHING is a conspiracy or entirely about politics.

Does it ever occur to you that MAYBE that guy isn't trying to push a conspiracy on you or win political points... and ACTUALLY thinks this wouldn't have happened in a country with less of a gun culture?

Did you see him take a swipe at the NRA and politicians? How can a father use his son's death as an opportunity to do such a thing?
 
I think he is reprehensible for using his son in such a manner. I believe that nobody should politicize the death of innocents, even if one of them happens to be their own. I cannot have pity on a father who willfully takes on more grief by needlessly using his own son as a weapon.

Yes, of course, you should pity his agony. If he is adding to it, as you suggest, still it does not absolve you from pitying his angry. In your mind, he is blaming the wrong things for his son's death. That's fine.

Just don't be harsh on this situation you would not want to face yourself.

I have lost a grown child, my first wife, and two of my sisters, besides my parents, TK.

I pity that man with all of my heart, and I hope soon he will realize he will smile and laugh again, though that seems impossible now.

Jake, even I know you would not use the death of your own loved ones to lash out at others. Even you have enough respect for the dead not to do such a thing. I lost my grandfather in 2007, I lost an aunt in 2010. I lost my second grandfather 2 weeks ago. I know how it feels, and I don't want to face that situation.

His grief, his anger, his sorrow... is no justification for dishonoring the dead. For denigrating the memories of those who died. I find it morally reprehensible.

I did have pity on the man. It stopped the moment he used the deaths of others as a political tool. I cannot in good faith stand for that kind of behavior. Being in grief in my mind does not absolve you of the consequences of your words or actions. He knew better. A man of 61 years should have known better.
 
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It is reprehensible to use the death of a loved one to push a political agenda, to politically provoke someone. That is irreverent, it is disrespectful, and dishonorable.

If that is what he actually believes it is not.

Christ to republicans EVERYTHING is a conspiracy or entirely about politics.

Does it ever occur to you that MAYBE that guy isn't trying to push a conspiracy on you or win political points... and ACTUALLY thinks this wouldn't have happened in a country with less of a gun culture?

Did you see him take a swipe at the NRA and politicians? How can a father use his son's death as an opportunity to do such a thing?

What about all the families of 9/11 victims taking swipes at Islam entirely for political purposes? What a bunch of jerks :rolleyes:
 
If that is what he actually believes it is not.

Christ to republicans EVERYTHING is a conspiracy or entirely about politics.

Does it ever occur to you that MAYBE that guy isn't trying to push a conspiracy on you or win political points... and ACTUALLY thinks this wouldn't have happened in a country with less of a gun culture?

Did you see him take a swipe at the NRA and politicians? How can a father use his son's death as an opportunity to do such a thing?

What about all the families of 9/11 victims taking swipes at Islam entirely for political purposes? What a bunch of jerks :rolleyes:

Apparently, you aren't taking me or this thread seriously.
 
I seek guidance. What I don't want is to be dissuaded of a belief. I seek this guidance to understand where I fall so far in my journey through life. I have been told I was unmerciful, classless, or even sociopathic for holding these beliefs. I hold that I am right, so whether I myself think I am wrong is inconsequential.

We have all heard about the mass killing involving Elliot Rodger. We all heard what one Richard Martinez said in regards to the death of his son, Christopher. He blamed the NRA and 'craven politicians' for his death. He pleaded, "When will this insanity end?!", "How many more must die?"

Now, I believe that he is going through untold amounts of grief over his son. That much is not in doubt. But I also believe he dishonored his son by using him as a means to an end, by attacking gun rights advocates, politicians, and innocent bystanders. I belief his grief did not absolve of the dishonor he wrought.

I think he is reprehensible for using his son in such a manner. I believe that nobody should politicize the death of innocents, even if one of them happens to be their own. I cannot have pity on a father who willfully takes on more grief by needlessly using his own son as a weapon.

Some will say, "I can understand why he lashed out at the NRA, politicians, and others. I would do the same if I lost my son or daughter in a shooting. He doesn't deserve to be attacked."

I contend that he brought those attacks on himself, and deservedly so. Grief does not absolve you of the consequences of what you say. It does not excuse you using it and your dead loved one to wantonly attack those who had nothing to do whatsoever with his death.

Am I wrong for believing these things? If so, why?

He can say what he wants....If he believes that Guns are the problem let he say so. He is wrong. And we have a right to say so. Because he lost his son does not give him some special free pass against criticism of what he says....Progressives try and make people out to be monsters for saying a grieving parent is wrong about something.... But progressives dont like free speech in any situation.
 
Did you see him take a swipe at the NRA and politicians? How can a father use his son's death as an opportunity to do such a thing?

What about all the families of 9/11 victims taking swipes at Islam entirely for political purposes? What a bunch of jerks :rolleyes:

Apparently, you aren't taking me or this thread seriously.

I just made a comparison that you are completely incapable of seeing. Hell that the entire RIGHT isn't capable of seeing.

Everything is not a conspiracy man. Liberals don't spend their lives thinking about how they can best put politics in front of family and country or whatever the hell you all think.
 
What about all the families of 9/11 victims taking swipes at Islam entirely for political purposes? What a bunch of jerks :rolleyes:

Apparently, you aren't taking me or this thread seriously.

I just made a comparison that you are completely incapable of seeing. Hell that the entire RIGHT isn't capable of seeing.

Everything is not a conspiracy man. Liberals don't spend their lives thinking about how they can best put politics in front of family and country or whatever the hell you all think.

Uh. Dude. I wasn't even talking about liberals. I was talking about Richard Martinez. Political affiliations are irrelevant. I am holding him accountable for his words, not all of liberalism or of the Democratic party.

I never suggested it was a conspiracy, simply because his words spoke for themselves.
 
Personally, I think Richard Martinez should take responsibility that his kid was batshit crazy and if he did not get hold of a gun, he would have found another means to murder innocent people. That Mr. Martinez is hurting right now and needs a scapegoat is understandable. It will pass.
 
Personally, I think Richard Martinez should take responsibility that his kid was batshit crazy and if he did not get hold of a gun, he would have found another means to murder innocent people. That Mr. Martinez is hurting right now and needs a scapegoat is understandable. It will pass.

Richard Martinez's son was a victim, not the shooter.
 
Personally, I think Richard Martinez should take responsibility that his kid was batshit crazy and if he did not get hold of a gun, he would have found another means to murder innocent people. That Mr. Martinez is hurting right now and needs a scapegoat is understandable. It will pass.

rodger was the killer. :rolleyes:
 
It is reprehensible to use the death of a loved one to push a political agenda, to politically provoke someone. That is irreverent, it is disrespectful, and dishonorable.

If it is the parent of that someone, you just need to let them work their shock and grief out however they can. It is just a matter of human decency. For me it is like Cindy Sheehan. I disagree with that woman with a passion, but I defend her right to say what she says and I will defend her against personal attacks against her as she earned that privilege and her son is the one who died trying to defend freedoms for her and us.

Everybody works their grief their own way. Not everyone who disagrees with you needs to be responded to or shouted down. In a week, nobody will care, not that many people care about his opinions now.
 
Personally, I think Richard Martinez should take responsibility that his kid was batshit crazy and if he did not get hold of a gun, he would have found another means to murder innocent people. That Mr. Martinez is hurting right now and needs a scapegoat is understandable. It will pass.

Richard Martinez's son was a victim, not the shooter.

Sorry. I found that out recently.
 

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