We Need Government Healthcare Like Canada!

[Ray From Cleveland]

Our healthcare expenses are so high because quality costs money, and the government of course.

If a person on Medicare gets a 700,000 surgery, Medicare only pays 80% of that cost. The rest, the hospital has to eat. To combat these losses, some providers are refusing new government patients. This includes Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIPS patients.

Others simply increase the cost of care so that private insurance indirectly pays for it, and we all know where private insurance gets their money from. It's the same after DumBama started his idiotic medical care plan. He placed a huge tax on medical supplies, and again, we know who has to pay for that.

Between that, lawsuits, nickel and dime processing claims, it all adds up to unaffordable healthcare for millions. As President Reagan once said, Government is not the solution of our problem--government is the problem.

I thought you were in that business once upon a time and don't know if one has a $700,000 surgery Medicare is certainly not paying 80% of that figure but rather whatever the discounted rate Medicare has provided.

They have no choice but to accept the discounted amount because that's all they're going to pay. They recoup those losses via private pay and private insurance, which is one of the contributors to our high insurance rates.

Do feel free to compare administrative costs and explain why Canadians pay less for US pharma products than americans do.

Actually, that would be because the Canadian government imposes price controls far below the cost of the meds, which shifts their costs off onto the US. So do us all a favor and don't praise those sucking leeches up north to those of us who have to foot the bill for them.

Bullshit lies from Big Pharma. Americans are paying $4000 for opioid overdose drugs that cost $40 a dose to produce. $400 for an EpiPen that costs the same. You’re being conned and fleeced. Just look at the profits being posted by the drug companies.

Which drug companies? Have any names?

 

[colfax_m]

I thought you were in that business once upon a time and don't know if one has a $700,000 surgery Medicare is certainly not paying 80% of that figure but rather whatever the discounted rate Medicare has provided.

They have no choice but to accept the discounted amount because that's all they're going to pay. They recoup those losses via private pay and private insurance, which is one of the contributors to our high insurance rates.

Do feel free to compare administrative costs and explain why Canadians pay less for US pharma products than americans do.

Actually, that would be because the Canadian government imposes price controls far below the cost of the meds, which shifts their costs off onto the US. So do us all a favor and don't praise those sucking leeches up north to those of us who have to foot the bill for them.

Bullshit lies from Big Pharma. Americans are paying $4000 for opioid overdose drugs that cost $40 a dose to produce. $400 for an EpiPen that costs the same. You’re being conned and fleeced. Just look at the profits being posted by the drug companies.

Which drug companies? Have any names?

Epipen is an extremely good example. Making them costs $30. They sell them for $700

The Soaring Price of EpiPen | RN.com

 

[Cecilie1200]

The ACA may be alive, but it's certainly not well, after a death by a thousand cuts. First Republicans cut the taxes that pay for it. Then they cut the mandate. Trump hemmed and hawed over funding the exchanges until a number of insurance companies pulled out altogether in some states. Trump also gave broad "religious freedom" to employers to exclude women's reproductive health, including birth control, from employee health insurance. And now the "pre-existing conditions" protectionss and Medicaid Expansion are being threatened in the Supreme Court where the Barr Administration will not argue in favour of the law.

I have long thought that American health care is not really "health care", it's "sick care". People don't go to the doctor until something is wrong with them. It's a good part of the reason why you're health care expenses are so high. People are really really sick by the time they get there. In the meantime, I'm getting nagged by my PCP that I'm past due for my Mammogram, and OHIP sent me a colon cancer test kit too.

I found this article useful, given our discussion of declining life expectancy in the USA:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...a65daa-4f6c-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html

Our healthcare expenses are so high because quality costs money, and the government of course.

If a person on Medicare gets a 700,000 surgery, Medicare only pays 80% of that cost. The rest, the hospital has to eat. To combat these losses, some providers are refusing new government patients. This includes Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIPS patients.

Others simply increase the cost of care so that private insurance indirectly pays for it, and we all know where private insurance gets their money from. It's the same after DumBama started his idiotic medical care plan. He placed a huge tax on medical supplies, and again, we know who has to pay for that.

Between that, lawsuits, nickel and dime processing claims, it all adds up to unaffordable healthcare for millions. As President Reagan once said, Government is not the solution of our problem--government is the problem.

I thought you were in that business once upon a time and don't know if one has a $700,000 surgery Medicare is certainly not paying 80% of that figure but rather whatever the discounted rate Medicare has provided.

They have no choice but to accept the discounted amount because that's all they're going to pay. They recoup those losses via private pay and private insurance, which is one of the contributors to our high insurance rates.

And also why a lot of doctors won't accept Medicare patients any more.

Even the doctors that do accept Medicare limit the number of Medicare patients.

Oh, yeah, they definitely do.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Our healthcare expenses are so high because quality costs money, and the government of course.

If a person on Medicare gets a 700,000 surgery, Medicare only pays 80% of that cost. The rest, the hospital has to eat. To combat these losses, some providers are refusing new government patients. This includes Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIPS patients.

Others simply increase the cost of care so that private insurance indirectly pays for it, and we all know where private insurance gets their money from. It's the same after DumBama started his idiotic medical care plan. He placed a huge tax on medical supplies, and again, we know who has to pay for that.

Between that, lawsuits, nickel and dime processing claims, it all adds up to unaffordable healthcare for millions. As President Reagan once said, Government is not the solution of our problem--government is the problem.

I thought you were in that business once upon a time and don't know if one has a $700,000 surgery Medicare is certainly not paying 80% of that figure but rather whatever the discounted rate Medicare has provided.

They have no choice but to accept the discounted amount because that's all they're going to pay. They recoup those losses via private pay and private insurance, which is one of the contributors to our high insurance rates.

Do feel free to compare administrative costs and explain why Canadians pay less for US pharma products than americans do.

Actually, that would be because the Canadian government imposes price controls far below the cost of the meds, which shifts their costs off onto the US. So do us all a favor and don't praise those sucking leeches up north to those of us who have to foot the bill for them.

Bullshit lies from Big Pharma. Americans are paying $4000 for opioid overdose drugs that cost $40 a dose to produce. $400 for an EpiPen that costs the same. You’re being conned and fleeced. Just look at the profits being posted by the drug companies.

As many times as you've had it pointed out that you're ignorant of something that's commonly available knowledge, I would think you would have learned by now not to dismiss something as "bullshit lies" just because your thought leaders haven't told you about it.

Do NOT talk to me about other people's profits as though you expect me to be as greedy and envious as you are. I do NOT appreciate having your filthy character flaws projected onto me.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The ACA may be alive, but it's certainly not well, after a death by a thousand cuts. First Republicans cut the taxes that pay for it. Then they cut the mandate. Trump hemmed and hawed over funding the exchanges until a number of insurance companies pulled out altogether in some states. Trump also gave broad "religious freedom" to employers to exclude women's reproductive health, including birth control, from employee health insurance. And now the "pre-existing conditions" protectionss and Medicaid Expansion are being threatened in the Supreme Court where the Barr Administration will not argue in favour of the law.

I have long thought that American health care is not really "health care", it's "sick care". People don't go to the doctor until something is wrong with them. It's a good part of the reason why you're health care expenses are so high. People are really really sick by the time they get there. In the meantime, I'm getting nagged by my PCP that I'm past due for my Mammogram, and OHIP sent me a colon cancer test kit too.

I found this article useful, given our discussion of declining life expectancy in the USA:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...a65daa-4f6c-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html

Our healthcare expenses are so high because quality costs money, and the government of course.

If a person on Medicare gets a 700,000 surgery, Medicare only pays 80% of that cost. The rest, the hospital has to eat. To combat these losses, some providers are refusing new government patients. This includes Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIPS patients.

Others simply increase the cost of care so that private insurance indirectly pays for it, and we all know where private insurance gets their money from. It's the same after DumBama started his idiotic medical care plan. He placed a huge tax on medical supplies, and again, we know who has to pay for that.

Between that, lawsuits, nickel and dime processing claims, it all adds up to unaffordable healthcare for millions. As President Reagan once said, Government is not the solution of our problem--government is the problem.

I thought you were in that business once upon a time and don't know if one has a $700,000 surgery Medicare is certainly not paying 80% of that figure but rather whatever the discounted rate Medicare has provided.

They have no choice but to accept the discounted amount because that's all they're going to pay. They recoup those losses via private pay and private insurance, which is one of the contributors to our high insurance rates.

And also why a lot of doctors won't accept Medicare patients any more.

You’ve just made a good point in favor of Medicare for all. If there is only Medicare, then basically every provider would have to take it outside of the uncommon cash only providers.

I never make a good point in favor of Medicare for all, because it's a shitty idea. The fact that you think everything is a "good point" in favor of controlling other people's lives says nothing about the facts or my points about them; it just tells us you're a worthless excuse for a human being.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

They have no choice but to accept the discounted amount because that's all they're going to pay. They recoup those losses via private pay and private insurance, which is one of the contributors to our high insurance rates.

Do feel free to compare administrative costs and explain why Canadians pay less for US pharma products than americans do.

Actually, that would be because the Canadian government imposes price controls far below the cost of the meds, which shifts their costs off onto the US. So do us all a favor and don't praise those sucking leeches up north to those of us who have to foot the bill for them.

Bullshit lies from Big Pharma. Americans are paying $4000 for opioid overdose drugs that cost $40 a dose to produce. $400 for an EpiPen that costs the same. You’re being conned and fleeced. Just look at the profits being posted by the drug companies.

Which drug companies? Have any names?

Epipen is an extremely good example. Making them costs $30. They sell them for $700

The Soaring Price of EpiPen | RN.com

Great. That's a start. Now according to your article, the Epipen is manufactured by Mylan. Here is their profit margin:

Current and historical gross margin, operating margin and net profit margin for Mylan (MYL) over the last 10 years. Profit margin can be defined as the percentage of revenue that a company retains as income after the deduction of expenses. Mylan net profit margin as of September 30, 2019 is 0.42%.

Mylan Profit Margin 2006-2019 | MYL

.42% I believe the banks are offering more for a savings account. Now let me ask: would you invest in this company?

You see, pharmaceutical companies invest a ton of money to satisfy our FDA. Hundreds of millions of dollars and years of red tape and testing need to take place to put a drug into market. When they make all those investments, and the FDA disapproves their drug, they need to increase the prices on their existing drugs.

Included in that cost is an intrinsic liability cost. When you put drugs out on the market, somebody is going to have a problem with it. When they do, the ambulance chasers are front and center to sue your company. Just look at what they did to the company that produces opioid products.

But of course, the reporters who tell you it only costs X to produce, but they sell it for Y, leave a whole lot of factors out of the mix.

 

[HappyJoy]

I much prefer the way many Americans wait for healthcare because they can't afford it.

who's that?

The 44 million Americans and their dependents who don't have health insurance. Or, those that filed for bankruptcy due to an illness.

EDIT: It's actually around 14 million now.

 

[Weatherman2020]

MAGA. I needed a CT but was told it would be 18 days to get one by those socialists in charge . I opted for a real nice private place----out of pocket. $275 US(with contrast) .They sent the results electronically to the socialist facilities and I went in to talk to the gastroenterologist who reviewed and issued free medication that same day and the free follow up scan on the date originally set. He was right from the git-go, Diverticulosis, but refused medicating before the scan to confirm.

So you're consorting with socialists. See that's the thing. We all do every day, we also bail out Wall Street with socialism and build sports stadiums with it.

Not building stadiums would be racist

Socialism. And americans love it.

You wouldn't know real socialism if it crawled up your pants leg and bit you on the ass cheek, for all that you keep worshipping it. Neither do you have clue one what Americans actually think, outside of what your thought leaders tell you to believe on the subject.

The attraction of socialism for these people is that it means government gives me free shit that somebody else paid for. Did somebody else have to work for that money you got? I don't care. Does that mean the government is going to go further into debt? I don't care. That could mean your employer who provides you with a job might be paying for all that free stuff! I don't care. All I care about is government give me free shit, and the rest I could care less about.

The fruits of the participation trophy generation.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I much prefer the way many Americans wait for healthcare because they can't afford it.

who's that?

The 44 million Americans and their dependents who don't have health insurance. Or, those that filed for bankruptcy due to an illness.

So Hopeycare was an epic failure, got it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I much prefer the way many Americans wait for healthcare because they can't afford it.

who's that?

The 44 million Americans and their dependents who don't have health insurance. Or, those that filed for bankruptcy due to an illness.

They filed bankruptcy in most cases because they didn't have an income. It had little to do with medical bills. Even if you file for disability, it takes 3 to 6 months to get an answer, and in most cases, the answer is no. Then you have to hire a lawyer to fight it out for you, and that could take over a year to a couple of years to get it.

 

[HappyJoy]

I much prefer the way many Americans wait for healthcare because they can't afford it.

who's that?

The 44 million Americans and their dependents who don't have health insurance. Or, those that filed for bankruptcy due to an illness.

So Hopeycare was an epic failure, got it.

Nope, number of uninsured went down during Obama's presidency and is going back up under Trump.

Under Trump, the number of uninsured Americans has gone up by 7 million

 

[Weatherman2020]

I much prefer the way many Americans wait for healthcare because they can't afford it.

who's that?

The 44 million Americans and their dependents who don't have health insurance. Or, those that filed for bankruptcy due to an illness.

So Hopeycare was an epic failure, got it.

Nope, number of uninsured went down during Obama's presidency and is going back up under Trump.

Under Trump, the number of uninsured Americans has gone up by 7 million

So it went from 10.9 to 13.7? Obviously 2.8 million decided they don’t want insurance once the gun was removed from their heads.

 

[HappyJoy]

I much prefer the way many Americans wait for healthcare because they can't afford it.

who's that?

The 44 million Americans and their dependents who don't have health insurance. Or, those that filed for bankruptcy due to an illness.

They filed bankruptcy in most cases because they didn't have an income. It had little to do with medical bills. Even if you file for disability, it takes 3 to 6 months to get an answer, and in most cases, the answer is no. Then you have to hire a lawyer to fight it out for you, and that could take over a year to a couple of years to get it.

That's cool except it's the exact opposite of the truth.

This is the real reason most Americans file for bankruptcy

Disability? We're talking about paying medical bills, your income most likely will not cover the bills so disability absolutely isn't going to.

 

[HappyJoy]

I much prefer the way many Americans wait for healthcare because they can't afford it.

who's that?

The 44 million Americans and their dependents who don't have health insurance. Or, those that filed for bankruptcy due to an illness.

So Hopeycare was an epic failure, got it.

Nope, number of uninsured went down during Obama's presidency and is going back up under Trump.

Under Trump, the number of uninsured Americans has gone up by 7 million

So it went from 10.9 to 13.7? Obviously 2.8 million decided they don’t want insurance once the gun was removed from their heads.

Decided they don't want insurance? Who the fuck does that? If you read the article you'd see that those who have shitty poor paying jobs are the ones losing insurance.

 

[Weatherman2020]

who's that?

The 44 million Americans and their dependents who don't have health insurance. Or, those that filed for bankruptcy due to an illness.

So Hopeycare was an epic failure, got it.

Nope, number of uninsured went down during Obama's presidency and is going back up under Trump.

Under Trump, the number of uninsured Americans has gone up by 7 million

So it went from 10.9 to 13.7? Obviously 2.8 million decided they don’t want insurance once the gun was removed from their heads.

Decided they don't want insurance? Who the fuck does that? If you read the article you'd see that those who have shitty poor paying jobs are the ones losing insurance.

Then why did Obama put a gun to the head of every American?

 

[HappyJoy]

The 44 million Americans and their dependents who don't have health insurance. Or, those that filed for bankruptcy due to an illness.

So Hopeycare was an epic failure, got it.

Nope, number of uninsured went down during Obama's presidency and is going back up under Trump.

Under Trump, the number of uninsured Americans has gone up by 7 million

So it went from 10.9 to 13.7? Obviously 2.8 million decided they don’t want insurance once the gun was removed from their heads.

Decided they don't want insurance? Who the fuck does that? If you read the article you'd see that those who have shitty poor paying jobs are the ones losing insurance.

Then why did Obama put a gun to the head of every American?

Most Americans are in favor of Obamacare. Plus the individual mandate was not much of a consideration to getting insurance.

Poll: Survey of the Non-Group Market Finds Most Say the Individual Mandate Was Not a Major Reason They Got Coverage in 2018, And Most Plan to Continue Buying Insurance Despite Recent Repeal of the Mandate Penalty

As you can see by the graph the increase in the uninsured started before the repeal of the individual mandate. Try again.

 

[Weatherman2020]

So Hopeycare was an epic failure, got it.

Nope, number of uninsured went down during Obama's presidency and is going back up under Trump.

Under Trump, the number of uninsured Americans has gone up by 7 million

So it went from 10.9 to 13.7? Obviously 2.8 million decided they don’t want insurance once the gun was removed from their heads.

Decided they don't want insurance? Who the fuck does that? If you read the article you'd see that those who have shitty poor paying jobs are the ones losing insurance.

Then why did Obama put a gun to the head of every American?

Most Americans are in favor of Obamacare. Plus the individual mandate was not much of a consideration to getting insurance.

Poll: Survey of the Non-Group Market Finds Most Say the Individual Mandate Was Not a Major Reason They Got Coverage in 2018, And Most Plan to Continue Buying Insurance Despite Recent Repeal of the Mandate Penalty

As you can see by the graph the increase in the uninsured started before the repeal of the individual mandate. Try again.

Should be an easy win for in November. Just push that return to Hopeycare really hard to voters, OK?

 

[dblack]

The main thing is, we need state control of health care, and all of the other necessities of life.

 

[HappyJoy]

Nope, number of uninsured went down during Obama's presidency and is going back up under Trump.

Under Trump, the number of uninsured Americans has gone up by 7 million

So it went from 10.9 to 13.7? Obviously 2.8 million decided they don’t want insurance once the gun was removed from their heads.

Decided they don't want insurance? Who the fuck does that? If you read the article you'd see that those who have shitty poor paying jobs are the ones losing insurance.

Then why did Obama put a gun to the head of every American?

Most Americans are in favor of Obamacare. Plus the individual mandate was not much of a consideration to getting insurance.

Poll: Survey of the Non-Group Market Finds Most Say the Individual Mandate Was Not a Major Reason They Got Coverage in 2018, And Most Plan to Continue Buying Insurance Despite Recent Repeal of the Mandate Penalty

As you can see by the graph the increase in the uninsured started before the repeal of the individual mandate. Try again.

Should be an easy win for in November. Just push that return to Hopeycare really hard to voters, OK?

It's more popular than Trump.

https://www.kff.org/interactive/kff...esponse=Favorable--Unfavorable&aRange=twoYear

I like how you changed subjects because you weren't getting very far.

 

[Weatherman2020]

So it went from 10.9 to 13.7? Obviously 2.8 million decided they don’t want insurance once the gun was removed from their heads.

Decided they don't want insurance? Who the fuck does that? If you read the article you'd see that those who have shitty poor paying jobs are the ones losing insurance.

Then why did Obama put a gun to the head of every American?

Most Americans are in favor of Obamacare. Plus the individual mandate was not much of a consideration to getting insurance.

Poll: Survey of the Non-Group Market Finds Most Say the Individual Mandate Was Not a Major Reason They Got Coverage in 2018, And Most Plan to Continue Buying Insurance Despite Recent Repeal of the Mandate Penalty

As you can see by the graph the increase in the uninsured started before the repeal of the individual mandate. Try again.

Should be an easy win for in November. Just push that return to Hopeycare really hard to voters, OK?

It's more popular than Trump.

KFF Health Tracking Poll: The Public’s Views on the ACA

I like how you changed subjects because you weren't getting very far.

You run on that! Sure victory in November! Free shit and Hopeycare!