We Need Government Healthcare Like Canada!

[Likkmee]

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Some of you believe the propaganda you're fed and think you're "actually aware" of something real.

Feel free to pick it apart point by point, here it is again:

Some of us are actually aware of our hellthcare system's ranking amongst all the other post-industrial nations on the planet. Most expensive, least efficient, shittier outcomes. And that americans pay more for American pharma products than Canadians do.

As for Bloomberg, what do you expect from your aristocracy?

Anyone recall Don's hellthcare campaign promises? He doesn't.

Majorities in both houses for 2 years.

See any healthcare legislation?

Trump said we would first repeal Obamacare, then replace it with something else. The Rino's in our Senate stopped the repeal. CommieCare is still alive and well today.

The ACA may be alive, but it's certainly not well, after a death by a thousand cuts. First Republicans cut the taxes that pay for it. Then they cut the mandate. Trump hemmed and hawed over funding the exchanges until a number of insurance companies pulled out altogether in some states. Trump also gave broad "religious freedom" to employers to exclude women's reproductive health, including birth control, from employee health insurance. And now the "pre-existing conditions" protectionss and Medicaid Expansion are being threatened in the Supreme Court where the Barr Administration will not argue in favour of the law.

I have long thought that American health care is not really "health care", it's "sick care". People don't go to the doctor until something is wrong with them. It's a good part of the reason why you're health care expenses are so high. People are really really sick by the time they get there. In the meantime, I'm getting nagged by my PCP that I'm past due for my Mammogram, and OHIP sent me a colon cancer test kit too.

I found this article useful, given our discussion of declining life expectancy in the USA:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...a65daa-4f6c-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html

Our healthcare expenses are so high because quality costs money, and the government of course.

If a person on Medicare gets a 700,000 surgery, Medicare only pays 80% of that cost. The rest, the hospital has to eat. To combat these losses, some providers are refusing new government patients. This includes Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIPS patients.

Others simply increase the cost of care so that private insurance indirectly pays for it, and we all know where private insurance gets their money from. It's the same after DumBama started his idiotic medical care plan. He placed a huge tax on medical supplies, and again, we know who has to pay for that.

Between that, lawsuits, nickel and dime processing claims, it all adds up to unaffordable healthcare for millions. As President Reagan once said, Government is not the solution of our problem--government is the problem.

See the problem with your argument here is that we have shittier healthcare outcomes in return for having the most expensive, inefficient wasteful healthcare system amongst advanced post-industrial nations. A little due diligence would go a long way if you could manage some. Reagan was an actor prattling off of a script.

Yes, when your govt represents concentrated capital and corporations as opposed to a representative govt of, by, for the people as ours is, your govt is a problem.

Shittier outcomes? If you had cancer, what other country would you rather be in than the number one country for cancer survival?

The WHO rated us as not having good healthcare only because it's not socialized healthcare. If it was so bad, why would people (who can afford it) be coming from around the world to get treated here? If we had socialized healthcare, it wouldn't be nearly as good because to maintain our quality, taxes would be so high that people would revolt. The only other choice we'd have is to decrease our quality dramatically.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Some of you believe the propaganda you're fed and think you're "actually aware" of something real.

Feel free to pick it apart point by point, here it is again:

Some of us are actually aware of our hellthcare system's ranking amongst all the other post-industrial nations on the planet. Most expensive, least efficient, shittier outcomes. And that americans pay more for American pharma products than Canadians do.

As for Bloomberg, what do you expect from your aristocracy?

Anyone recall Don's hellthcare campaign promises? He doesn't.

Majorities in both houses for 2 years.

See any healthcare legislation?

Trump said we would first repeal Obamacare, then replace it with something else. The Rino's in our Senate stopped the repeal. CommieCare is still alive and well today.

The ACA may be alive, but it's certainly not well, after a death by a thousand cuts. First Republicans cut the taxes that pay for it. Then they cut the mandate. Trump hemmed and hawed over funding the exchanges until a number of insurance companies pulled out altogether in some states. Trump also gave broad "religious freedom" to employers to exclude women's reproductive health, including birth control, from employee health insurance. And now the "pre-existing conditions" protectionss and Medicaid Expansion are being threatened in the Supreme Court where the Barr Administration will not argue in favour of the law.

I have long thought that American health care is not really "health care", it's "sick care". People don't go to the doctor until something is wrong with them. It's a good part of the reason why you're health care expenses are so high. People are really really sick by the time they get there. In the meantime, I'm getting nagged by my PCP that I'm past due for my Mammogram, and OHIP sent me a colon cancer test kit too.

I found this article useful, given our discussion of declining life expectancy in the USA:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...a65daa-4f6c-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html

Our healthcare expenses are so high because quality costs money, and the government of course.

If a person on Medicare gets a 700,000 surgery, Medicare only pays 80% of that cost. The rest, the hospital has to eat. To combat these losses, some providers are refusing new government patients. This includes Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIPS patients.

Others simply increase the cost of care so that private insurance indirectly pays for it, and we all know where private insurance gets their money from. It's the same after DumBama started his idiotic medical care plan. He placed a huge tax on medical supplies, and again, we know who has to pay for that.

Between that, lawsuits, nickel and dime processing claims, it all adds up to unaffordable healthcare for millions. As President Reagan once said, Government is not the solution of our problem--government is the problem.

See the problem with your argument here is that we have shittier healthcare outcomes in return for having the most expensive, inefficient wasteful healthcare system amongst advanced post-industrial nations. A little due diligence would go a long way if you could manage some. Reagan was an actor prattling off of a script.

Yes, when your govt represents concentrated capital and corporations as opposed to a representative govt of, by, for the people as ours is, your govt is a problem.

See, the problem with your argument is that it isn't an argument. It's a bunch of vague generalizations asserted as fact that you ASSume everyone else will accept because you say it. And before we can move on to your desired discussion of how to fix the problems as you perceive them, you need to do the work of proving that you're right.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Health care can be overhauled and made cheaper. Start with tort reform. Stop providing any medical care to those illegally here. Deport them. Let doctors and patients negotiate payment for routine care. Insurance should never be used to see a doctor for a cold or pap tests.

And don't forget "let people shop more freely for their insurance, instead of within narrowly prescribed boundaries according to government regulations".

We have all of our basic care covered and paid for by taxes. I get to shop where I want my care from, so in that regard, I have far more freedom in deciding my care than you do. I can pick my doctors, my hospitals, and where I go for care. My doctor and I decide my care, not my insurance company, and not my "network".

That's why we have 7% administration costs and the USA has over 30% administration. Tort reform, at most will reduce insurance premium costs by 2 - 3.5%. Eliminating private insurance for all doctors visits and hospital care, eliminates 25% of your administration costs.

Hey, wow, the dumb bitch who thinks she has to evangelize people into being just like her so that she can feel good about it didn't understand what I said. Color me surprised.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Health care can be overhauled and made cheaper. Start with tort reform. Stop providing any medical care to those illegally here. Deport them. Let doctors and patients negotiate payment for routine care. Insurance should never be used to see a doctor for a cold or pap tests.

And don't forget "let people shop more freely for their insurance, instead of within narrowly prescribed boundaries according to government regulations".

We have all of our basic care covered and paid for by taxes. I get to shop where I want my care from, so in that regard, I have far more freedom in deciding my care than you do. I can pick my doctors, my hospitals, and where I go for care. My doctor and I decide my care, not my insurance company, and not my "network".

That's why we have 7% administration costs and the USA has over 30% administration. Tort reform, at most will reduce insurance premium costs by 2 - 3.5%. Eliminating private insurance for all doctors visits and hospital care, eliminates 25% of your administration costs.

Oh we know all that here, that's what all the sloganeering, duplicity, predation and purposeful exclusion of the unsubstantial people is all about, and we like to keep the masses cucked to employers and concentrated capital for life itself.

Who the hell is "we"? I KNOW your stupid ass doesn't think you're a spokesman for anyone.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Health care can be overhauled and made cheaper. Start with tort reform. Stop providing any medical care to those illegally here. Deport them. Let doctors and patients negotiate payment for routine care. Insurance should never be used to see a doctor for a cold or pap tests.

And don't forget "let people shop more freely for their insurance, instead of within narrowly prescribed boundaries according to government regulations".

Yea like this guy.

A Miami man who flew to China worried he might have coronavirus. He may owe thousands

What the fuck you think that has to do with what Tipsy and I were talking about is anybody's guess.

 

[Cecilie1200]

How much will you spend on private insurance over 10 years? Americans are spending $3.4 trilliion just on co-pays and deductibles in 2019, $670 billion on direct insurance premiums, and employer based family coverage costs over $20,000 per year per employee. 80% of Americans with health inusrance coverage get it through their employer.

Single payer health insurance wipes out the health insurance premiums and copays. Americans look at the higher income tax rates in Canada and say "No way", but if you compare what American pay in Taxes, and health insurance premiums, our tax rates our lower. By $1500 per year for a low income family.

Somehow you forgot to include your reliable sources and working links to your allegations.

Here are the actual figures comparing a typical household of two parents, two kids, earning about $100,000 per year. I did this before the tax cuts so our (USA) taxes would be somewhat less.

The Eye-Popping Cost of Medicare for All
According to new figures: more than the federal government will spend over the coming decade on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid combined.
RONALD BROWNSTEINOCTOBER 16, 2019
[...]
The Urban Institute, a center-left think tank highly respected among Democrats, is projecting that a plan similar to what Warren and Senator Bernie Sanders are pushing would require $34 trillion in additional federal spending over its first decade in operation. That’s more than the federal government’s total cost over the coming decade for Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid combined, according to the most recent Congressional Budget Office projections.

The Eye-Popping Cost of Medicare for All

Don't know where you're getting your actual figures but your cost for health insurance for a family of 4 are way off, they might not being paying more premium if group health insurance but someone is certainly paying more for a decent health insurance plan than $7000 annually.

If you really don't know where he got the figures, you obviously didn't read his post before presuming to "correct" it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Health care can be overhauled and made cheaper. Start with tort reform. Stop providing any medical care to those illegally here. Deport them. Let doctors and patients negotiate payment for routine care. Insurance should never be used to see a doctor for a cold or pap tests.

And don't forget "let people shop more freely for their insurance, instead of within narrowly prescribed boundaries according to government regulations".

We have all of our basic care covered and paid for by taxes. I get to shop where I want my care from, so in that regard, I have far more freedom in deciding my care than you do. I can pick my doctors, my hospitals, and where I go for care. My doctor and I decide my care, not my insurance company, and not my "network".

That's why we have 7% administration costs and the USA has over 30% administration. Tort reform, at most will reduce insurance premium costs by 2 - 3.5%. Eliminating private insurance for all doctors visits and hospital care, eliminates 25% of your administration costs.

In government paid Medicare my primary doctor decides everything. That's why I pay out of pocket for my medical care. Medicare is no care. My son has private insurance and everything is covered. He sees whatever doctor he wants, no question.

Bullshit, Medicare allows me to see whatever doctor I want with no questions.

Well, except for the one question: "Do you have an Advantage plan, 'cause we don't accept Part B?"

 

[Cecilie1200]

Health care can be overhauled and made cheaper. Start with tort reform. Stop providing any medical care to those illegally here. Deport them. Let doctors and patients negotiate payment for routine care. Insurance should never be used to see a doctor for a cold or pap tests.

And don't forget "let people shop more freely for their insurance, instead of within narrowly prescribed boundaries according to government regulations".

We have all of our basic care covered and paid for by taxes. I get to shop where I want my care from, so in that regard, I have far more freedom in deciding my care than you do. I can pick my doctors, my hospitals, and where I go for care. My doctor and I decide my care, not my insurance company, and not my "network".

That's why we have 7% administration costs and the USA has over 30% administration. Tort reform, at most will reduce insurance premium costs by 2 - 3.5%. Eliminating private insurance for all doctors visits and hospital care, eliminates 25% of your administration costs.

In government paid Medicare my primary doctor decides everything. That's why I pay out of pocket for my medical care. Medicare is no care. My son has private insurance and everything is covered. He sees whatever doctor he wants, no question.

Medicare is not an HMO and your primary doctor doesn't decide everything, in fact you don't need a primary doctor.

So much bullshit, so little time, American exceptionalism fallen flat on its face. Trailing the rest of the advanced post-industrial world.

So the solution is to force 300 million people to change to what you think is best, whether they want to or not, rather than you picking your ass up and taking it somewhere that suits you? Only a leftist egomaniac would think that was logical.

 

[Cecilie1200]

And don't forget "let people shop more freely for their insurance, instead of within narrowly prescribed boundaries according to government regulations".

Yea like this guy.

A Miami man who flew to China worried he might have coronavirus. He may owe thousands

MAGA. I needed a CT but was told it would be 18 days to get one by those socialists in charge . I opted for a real nice private place----out of pocket. $275 US(with contrast) .They sent the results electronically to the socialist facilities and I went in to talk to the gastroenterologist who reviewed and issued free medication that same day and the free follow up scan on the date originally set. He was right from the git-go, Diverticulosis, but refused medicating before the scan to confirm.

So you're consorting with socialists. See that's the thing. We all do every day, we also bail out Wall Street with socialism and build sports stadiums with it.

Not building stadiums would be racist

Socialism. And americans love it.

You wouldn't know real socialism if it crawled up your pants leg and bit you on the ass cheek, for all that you keep worshipping it. Neither do you have clue one what Americans actually think, outside of what your thought leaders tell you to believe on the subject.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Feel free to pick it apart point by point, here it is again:

Some of us are actually aware of our hellthcare system's ranking amongst all the other post-industrial nations on the planet. Most expensive, least efficient, shittier outcomes. And that americans pay more for American pharma products than Canadians do.

As for Bloomberg, what do you expect from your aristocracy?

Anyone recall Don's hellthcare campaign promises? He doesn't.

Majorities in both houses for 2 years.

See any healthcare legislation?

Trump said we would first repeal Obamacare, then replace it with something else. The Rino's in our Senate stopped the repeal. CommieCare is still alive and well today.

The ACA may be alive, but it's certainly not well, after a death by a thousand cuts. First Republicans cut the taxes that pay for it. Then they cut the mandate. Trump hemmed and hawed over funding the exchanges until a number of insurance companies pulled out altogether in some states. Trump also gave broad "religious freedom" to employers to exclude women's reproductive health, including birth control, from employee health insurance. And now the "pre-existing conditions" protectionss and Medicaid Expansion are being threatened in the Supreme Court where the Barr Administration will not argue in favour of the law.

I have long thought that American health care is not really "health care", it's "sick care". People don't go to the doctor until something is wrong with them. It's a good part of the reason why you're health care expenses are so high. People are really really sick by the time they get there. In the meantime, I'm getting nagged by my PCP that I'm past due for my Mammogram, and OHIP sent me a colon cancer test kit too.

I found this article useful, given our discussion of declining life expectancy in the USA:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...a65daa-4f6c-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html

Our healthcare expenses are so high because quality costs money, and the government of course.

If a person on Medicare gets a 700,000 surgery, Medicare only pays 80% of that cost. The rest, the hospital has to eat. To combat these losses, some providers are refusing new government patients. This includes Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIPS patients.

Others simply increase the cost of care so that private insurance indirectly pays for it, and we all know where private insurance gets their money from. It's the same after DumBama started his idiotic medical care plan. He placed a huge tax on medical supplies, and again, we know who has to pay for that.

Between that, lawsuits, nickel and dime processing claims, it all adds up to unaffordable healthcare for millions. As President Reagan once said, Government is not the solution of our problem--government is the problem.

I thought you were in that business once upon a time and don't know if one has a $700,000 surgery Medicare is certainly not paying 80% of that figure but rather whatever the discounted rate Medicare has provided.

They have no choice but to accept the discounted amount because that's all they're going to pay. They recoup those losses via private pay and private insurance, which is one of the contributors to our high insurance rates.

And also why a lot of doctors won't accept Medicare patients any more.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yea like this guy.

A Miami man who flew to China worried he might have coronavirus. He may owe thousands

MAGA. I needed a CT but was told it would be 18 days to get one by those socialists in charge . I opted for a real nice private place----out of pocket. $275 US(with contrast) .They sent the results electronically to the socialist facilities and I went in to talk to the gastroenterologist who reviewed and issued free medication that same day and the free follow up scan on the date originally set. He was right from the git-go, Diverticulosis, but refused medicating before the scan to confirm.

So you're consorting with socialists. See that's the thing. We all do every day, we also bail out Wall Street with socialism and build sports stadiums with it.

Not building stadiums would be racist

Socialism. And americans love it.

You wouldn't know real socialism if it crawled up your pants leg and bit you on the ass cheek, for all that you keep worshipping it. Neither do you have clue one what Americans actually think, outside of what your thought leaders tell you to believe on the subject.

The attraction of socialism for these people is that it means government gives me free shit that somebody else paid for. Did somebody else have to work for that money you got? I don't care. Does that mean the government is going to go further into debt? I don't care. That could mean your employer who provides you with a job might be paying for all that free stuff! I don't care. All I care about is government give me free shit, and the rest I could care less about.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Trump said we would first repeal Obamacare, then replace it with something else. The Rino's in our Senate stopped the repeal. CommieCare is still alive and well today.

The ACA may be alive, but it's certainly not well, after a death by a thousand cuts. First Republicans cut the taxes that pay for it. Then they cut the mandate. Trump hemmed and hawed over funding the exchanges until a number of insurance companies pulled out altogether in some states. Trump also gave broad "religious freedom" to employers to exclude women's reproductive health, including birth control, from employee health insurance. And now the "pre-existing conditions" protectionss and Medicaid Expansion are being threatened in the Supreme Court where the Barr Administration will not argue in favour of the law.

I have long thought that American health care is not really "health care", it's "sick care". People don't go to the doctor until something is wrong with them. It's a good part of the reason why you're health care expenses are so high. People are really really sick by the time they get there. In the meantime, I'm getting nagged by my PCP that I'm past due for my Mammogram, and OHIP sent me a colon cancer test kit too.

I found this article useful, given our discussion of declining life expectancy in the USA:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...a65daa-4f6c-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html

Our healthcare expenses are so high because quality costs money, and the government of course.

If a person on Medicare gets a 700,000 surgery, Medicare only pays 80% of that cost. The rest, the hospital has to eat. To combat these losses, some providers are refusing new government patients. This includes Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIPS patients.

Others simply increase the cost of care so that private insurance indirectly pays for it, and we all know where private insurance gets their money from. It's the same after DumBama started his idiotic medical care plan. He placed a huge tax on medical supplies, and again, we know who has to pay for that.

Between that, lawsuits, nickel and dime processing claims, it all adds up to unaffordable healthcare for millions. As President Reagan once said, Government is not the solution of our problem--government is the problem.

I thought you were in that business once upon a time and don't know if one has a $700,000 surgery Medicare is certainly not paying 80% of that figure but rather whatever the discounted rate Medicare has provided.

They have no choice but to accept the discounted amount because that's all they're going to pay. They recoup those losses via private pay and private insurance, which is one of the contributors to our high insurance rates.

Do feel free to compare administrative costs and explain why Canadians pay less for US pharma products than americans do.

Actually, that would be because the Canadian government imposes price controls far below the cost of the meds, which shifts their costs off onto the US. So do us all a favor and don't praise those sucking leeches up north to those of us who have to foot the bill for them.

 

[Cecilie1200]

MAGA. I needed a CT but was told it would be 18 days to get one by those socialists in charge . I opted for a real nice private place----out of pocket. $275 US(with contrast) .They sent the results electronically to the socialist facilities and I went in to talk to the gastroenterologist who reviewed and issued free medication that same day and the free follow up scan on the date originally set. He was right from the git-go, Diverticulosis, but refused medicating before the scan to confirm.

So you're consorting with socialists. See that's the thing. We all do every day, we also bail out Wall Street with socialism and build sports stadiums with it.

Not building stadiums would be racist

Socialism. And americans love it.

You wouldn't know real socialism if it crawled up your pants leg and bit you on the ass cheek, for all that you keep worshipping it. Neither do you have clue one what Americans actually think, outside of what your thought leaders tell you to believe on the subject.

The attraction of socialism for these people is that it means government gives me free shit that somebody else paid for. Did somebody else have to work for that money you got? I don't care. Does that mean the government is going to go further into debt? I don't care. That could mean your employer who provides you with a job might be paying for all that free stuff! I don't care. All I care about is government give me free shit, and the rest I could care less about.

And they're clueless to the fact that if they really got the socialism they claim to want, there wouldn't be any stuff for the government to give them.

 

[Dragonlady]

Yes, because 'costs' and federal spending are not the same. When a State's share of Medicaid spending begins to be covered by Medicare for all, the cost doesn't change. The spending shifts - increasing at the federal level and dropping at the state level.

Really? Now you're going to get into semantics?

Admit it you had no clue and thought you'd score some points?

You think the difference between 'cost' and 'increased federal spending' is semantic? I gave you an example - where costs remain the same, but the spending burden shifts to the feds. If you want to pretend that's 'semantics', knock yourself out.

Semantics.

Medicare for all will cost an additional $34 TRILLION over 10 years.

For Medicare for all, we will SPEND an additional $34 TRILLION over 10 years.

Why yes, I see the stark difference now, how could I have missed it?

How much will you spend on private insurance over 10 years? Americans are spending $3.4 trilliion just on co-pays and deductibles in 2019, $670 billion on direct insurance premiums, and employer based family coverage costs over $20,000 per year per employee. 80% of Americans with health inusrance coverage get it through their employer.

Single payer health insurance wipes out the health insurance premiums and copays. Americans look at the higher income tax rates in Canada and say "No way", but if you compare what American pay in Taxes, and health insurance premiums, our tax rates our lower. By $1500 per year for a low income family.

No, sweetie, it doesn't "wipe out" anything; it just charges you for it in a different way.

And lest I forget, WHAT FUCKING BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS WHAT AMERICAN HEALTHCARE IS LIKE?

I have American family and friends dealing with your shitty healthcare every day of their lives.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Really? Now you're going to get into semantics?

Admit it you had no clue and thought you'd score some points?

You think the difference between 'cost' and 'increased federal spending' is semantic? I gave you an example - where costs remain the same, but the spending burden shifts to the feds. If you want to pretend that's 'semantics', knock yourself out.

Semantics.

Medicare for all will cost an additional $34 TRILLION over 10 years.

For Medicare for all, we will SPEND an additional $34 TRILLION over 10 years.

Why yes, I see the stark difference now, how could I have missed it?

How much will you spend on private insurance over 10 years? Americans are spending $3.4 trilliion just on co-pays and deductibles in 2019, $670 billion on direct insurance premiums, and employer based family coverage costs over $20,000 per year per employee. 80% of Americans with health inusrance coverage get it through their employer.

Single payer health insurance wipes out the health insurance premiums and copays. Americans look at the higher income tax rates in Canada and say "No way", but if you compare what American pay in Taxes, and health insurance premiums, our tax rates our lower. By $1500 per year for a low income family.

No, sweetie, it doesn't "wipe out" anything; it just charges you for it in a different way.

And lest I forget, WHAT FUCKING BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS WHAT AMERICAN HEALTHCARE IS LIKE?

I have American family and friends dealing with your shitty healthcare every day of their lives.

Nonsense, we have excellent healthcare and it is available to everyone.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Trump said we would first repeal Obamacare, then replace it with something else. The Rino's in our Senate stopped the repeal. CommieCare is still alive and well today.

The ACA may be alive, but it's certainly not well, after a death by a thousand cuts. First Republicans cut the taxes that pay for it. Then they cut the mandate. Trump hemmed and hawed over funding the exchanges until a number of insurance companies pulled out altogether in some states. Trump also gave broad "religious freedom" to employers to exclude women's reproductive health, including birth control, from employee health insurance. And now the "pre-existing conditions" protectionss and Medicaid Expansion are being threatened in the Supreme Court where the Barr Administration will not argue in favour of the law.

I have long thought that American health care is not really "health care", it's "sick care". People don't go to the doctor until something is wrong with them. It's a good part of the reason why you're health care expenses are so high. People are really really sick by the time they get there. In the meantime, I'm getting nagged by my PCP that I'm past due for my Mammogram, and OHIP sent me a colon cancer test kit too.

I found this article useful, given our discussion of declining life expectancy in the USA:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...a65daa-4f6c-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html

Our healthcare expenses are so high because quality costs money, and the government of course.

If a person on Medicare gets a 700,000 surgery, Medicare only pays 80% of that cost. The rest, the hospital has to eat. To combat these losses, some providers are refusing new government patients. This includes Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIPS patients.

Others simply increase the cost of care so that private insurance indirectly pays for it, and we all know where private insurance gets their money from. It's the same after DumBama started his idiotic medical care plan. He placed a huge tax on medical supplies, and again, we know who has to pay for that.

Between that, lawsuits, nickel and dime processing claims, it all adds up to unaffordable healthcare for millions. As President Reagan once said, Government is not the solution of our problem--government is the problem.

I thought you were in that business once upon a time and don't know if one has a $700,000 surgery Medicare is certainly not paying 80% of that figure but rather whatever the discounted rate Medicare has provided.

They have no choice but to accept the discounted amount because that's all they're going to pay. They recoup those losses via private pay and private insurance, which is one of the contributors to our high insurance rates.

And also why a lot of doctors won't accept Medicare patients any more.

Even the doctors that do accept Medicare limit the number of Medicare patients.

 

[Dragonlady]

The ACA may be alive, but it's certainly not well, after a death by a thousand cuts. First Republicans cut the taxes that pay for it. Then they cut the mandate. Trump hemmed and hawed over funding the exchanges until a number of insurance companies pulled out altogether in some states. Trump also gave broad "religious freedom" to employers to exclude women's reproductive health, including birth control, from employee health insurance. And now the "pre-existing conditions" protectionss and Medicaid Expansion are being threatened in the Supreme Court where the Barr Administration will not argue in favour of the law.

I have long thought that American health care is not really "health care", it's "sick care". People don't go to the doctor until something is wrong with them. It's a good part of the reason why you're health care expenses are so high. People are really really sick by the time they get there. In the meantime, I'm getting nagged by my PCP that I'm past due for my Mammogram, and OHIP sent me a colon cancer test kit too.

I found this article useful, given our discussion of declining life expectancy in the USA:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...a65daa-4f6c-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html

Our healthcare expenses are so high because quality costs money, and the government of course.

If a person on Medicare gets a 700,000 surgery, Medicare only pays 80% of that cost. The rest, the hospital has to eat. To combat these losses, some providers are refusing new government patients. This includes Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIPS patients.

Others simply increase the cost of care so that private insurance indirectly pays for it, and we all know where private insurance gets their money from. It's the same after DumBama started his idiotic medical care plan. He placed a huge tax on medical supplies, and again, we know who has to pay for that.

Between that, lawsuits, nickel and dime processing claims, it all adds up to unaffordable healthcare for millions. As President Reagan once said, Government is not the solution of our problem--government is the problem.

I thought you were in that business once upon a time and don't know if one has a $700,000 surgery Medicare is certainly not paying 80% of that figure but rather whatever the discounted rate Medicare has provided.

They have no choice but to accept the discounted amount because that's all they're going to pay. They recoup those losses via private pay and private insurance, which is one of the contributors to our high insurance rates.

Do feel free to compare administrative costs and explain why Canadians pay less for US pharma products than americans do.

Actually, that would be because the Canadian government imposes price controls far below the cost of the meds, which shifts their costs off onto the US. So do us all a favor and don't praise those sucking leeches up north to those of us who have to foot the bill for them.

Bullshit lies from Big Pharma. Americans are paying $4000 for opioid overdose drugs that cost $40 a dose to produce. $400 for an EpiPen that costs the same. You’re being conned and fleeced. Just look at the profits being posted by the drug companies.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Really? Now you're going to get into semantics?

Admit it you had no clue and thought you'd score some points?

You think the difference between 'cost' and 'increased federal spending' is semantic? I gave you an example - where costs remain the same, but the spending burden shifts to the feds. If you want to pretend that's 'semantics', knock yourself out.

Semantics.

Medicare for all will cost an additional $34 TRILLION over 10 years.

For Medicare for all, we will SPEND an additional $34 TRILLION over 10 years.

Why yes, I see the stark difference now, how could I have missed it?

How much will you spend on private insurance over 10 years? Americans are spending $3.4 trilliion just on co-pays and deductibles in 2019, $670 billion on direct insurance premiums, and employer based family coverage costs over $20,000 per year per employee. 80% of Americans with health inusrance coverage get it through their employer.

Single payer health insurance wipes out the health insurance premiums and copays. Americans look at the higher income tax rates in Canada and say "No way", but if you compare what American pay in Taxes, and health insurance premiums, our tax rates our lower. By $1500 per year for a low income family.

No, sweetie, it doesn't "wipe out" anything; it just charges you for it in a different way.

And lest I forget, WHAT FUCKING BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS WHAT AMERICAN HEALTHCARE IS LIKE?

I have American family and friends dealing with your shitty healthcare every day of their lives.

I know people who live in Canada, but I don't think that entitles me to tell the whole country that they have to run it to suit me, because I'm not a megalomaniac with brain damage.

"I know people who live there." Yeah, well, I AM a person who lives here, so I win. Mind your own fucking business.

 

[colfax_m]

Trump said we would first repeal Obamacare, then replace it with something else. The Rino's in our Senate stopped the repeal. CommieCare is still alive and well today.

The ACA may be alive, but it's certainly not well, after a death by a thousand cuts. First Republicans cut the taxes that pay for it. Then they cut the mandate. Trump hemmed and hawed over funding the exchanges until a number of insurance companies pulled out altogether in some states. Trump also gave broad "religious freedom" to employers to exclude women's reproductive health, including birth control, from employee health insurance. And now the "pre-existing conditions" protectionss and Medicaid Expansion are being threatened in the Supreme Court where the Barr Administration will not argue in favour of the law.

I have long thought that American health care is not really "health care", it's "sick care". People don't go to the doctor until something is wrong with them. It's a good part of the reason why you're health care expenses are so high. People are really really sick by the time they get there. In the meantime, I'm getting nagged by my PCP that I'm past due for my Mammogram, and OHIP sent me a colon cancer test kit too.

I found this article useful, given our discussion of declining life expectancy in the USA:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...a65daa-4f6c-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html

Our healthcare expenses are so high because quality costs money, and the government of course.

If a person on Medicare gets a 700,000 surgery, Medicare only pays 80% of that cost. The rest, the hospital has to eat. To combat these losses, some providers are refusing new government patients. This includes Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIPS patients.

Others simply increase the cost of care so that private insurance indirectly pays for it, and we all know where private insurance gets their money from. It's the same after DumBama started his idiotic medical care plan. He placed a huge tax on medical supplies, and again, we know who has to pay for that.

Between that, lawsuits, nickel and dime processing claims, it all adds up to unaffordable healthcare for millions. As President Reagan once said, Government is not the solution of our problem--government is the problem.

I thought you were in that business once upon a time and don't know if one has a $700,000 surgery Medicare is certainly not paying 80% of that figure but rather whatever the discounted rate Medicare has provided.

They have no choice but to accept the discounted amount because that's all they're going to pay. They recoup those losses via private pay and private insurance, which is one of the contributors to our high insurance rates.

And also why a lot of doctors won't accept Medicare patients any more.

You’ve just made a good point in favor of Medicare for all. If there is only Medicare, then basically every provider would have to take it outside of the uncommon cash only providers.