Wealth and Income Inequality in the United States

[Auxous]

Tax the restaurant to the point that it has to raise prices beyond what the customer base will pay in order to make a decent profit and it will go out of business and thus pay no taxes. ...

The dry goods store may compensate for higher taxes also by raising prices

Again, no. You clearly don't understand the issue here. You cannot raise taxes on a company's profits to the point where the cost of doing business is so high the company goes under. It's not possible no matter what the type of business.

Take GE again as an example. If GE had a tax rate of 100%, they would have paid $5B in taxes and no dividends. Would this mean the company was going under? No. They still paid all employees and paid all costs of doing business. They simply had no money left over. Obviously I'm not advocating a 100% tax rate, but if that were the case, GE would be looking for ways to report zero profits and thus pay zero taxes. One of the easiest ways to do that is to pay your employees more in wages.

Let's say I have $100. I can take an informed and calculated risk and invest that $100 in machinery, raw materials, and wages plus licenses, fees, registrations, etc. and hope to turn that $100 into $200 less $20 in taxes. The $80 I net will support me nicely and also allow me to invest even more in the coming year and go for even more profit. That means I will utilize more services from others, buy more raw products, hire more people.

So you want to raise my taxes to $30. I might suck it up and think it was still worth the risk, time, effort, and mental stress to make the investment for a smaller net.

And now you want to raise my taxes to $40. I'll still have lots and lots left over, right?

But each time you are making the risk less and less worth it. And at some point, I will decide it isn't worth it at all. I'll pack it in and live on my $100 rather than gamble it. If I have no assurance what tax rate you eventually expect to impose or when you will impose it, I will also not take the risk.

And THAT is why we have trillions of dollars sidelined both here in America and stashed abroad right now because our fearless leader keeps threatening to increase taxes, regulation, requirements, mandates, etc. etc. etc. and business just isn't willing to risk the capital they have with so much uncertainty re the risk they will be taking.

Taxing investment is absurd. So isn't your profit for simply doing nothing.

You produced nothing, but receive a nice profit for it. How the hell is that just?

 

[bripat9643]

From: It's the Inequality, Stupid | Mother Jones

It's not just that the rich have a disproportionate share; it's that problem is getting worse over time.

First, the source of your charts is Mother Jones, not the CBO. That makes their credibility below zero.

Given that essential fact, detailing the rest of the flaws in your propaganda isn't worth the effort.

 

[Foxfyre]

Again, no. You clearly don't understand the issue here. You cannot raise taxes on a company's profits to the point where the cost of doing business is so high the company goes under. It's not possible no matter what the type of business.

Take GE again as an example. If GE had a tax rate of 100%, they would have paid $5B in taxes and no dividends. Would this mean the company was going under? No. They still paid all employees and paid all costs of doing business. They simply had no money left over. Obviously I'm not advocating a 100% tax rate, but if that were the case, GE would be looking for ways to report zero profits and thus pay zero taxes. One of the easiest ways to do that is to pay your employees more in wages.

Let's say I have $100. I can take an informed and calculated risk and invest that $100 in machinery, raw materials, and wages plus licenses, fees, registrations, etc. and hope to turn that $100 into $200 less $20 in taxes. The $80 I net will support me nicely and also allow me to invest even more in the coming year and go for even more profit. That means I will utilize more services from others, buy more raw products, hire more people.

So you want to raise my taxes to $30. I might suck it up and think it was still worth the risk, time, effort, and mental stress to make the investment for a smaller net.

And now you want to raise my taxes to $40. I'll still have lots and lots left over, right?

But each time you are making the risk less and less worth it. And at some point, I will decide it isn't worth it at all. I'll pack it in and live on my $100 rather than gamble it. If I have no assurance what tax rate you eventually expect to impose or when you will impose it, I will also not take the risk.

And THAT is why we have trillions of dollars sidelined both here in America and stashed abroad right now because our fearless leader keeps threatening to increase taxes, regulation, requirements, mandates, etc. etc. etc. and business just isn't willing to risk the capital they have with so much uncertainty re the risk they will be taking.

Taxing investment is absurd. So isn't your profit for simply doing nothing.

You produced nothing, but receive a nice profit for it. How the hell is that just?

If that was directed to me I certainly was not talking about anything other than taxing profits made on honest commerce and industry.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Most Americans would like to see more income equality. But they don't know how bad the problem actually is.

I do not see a problem as there is no such thing as a "share" of the national income.
There is no "national income".
There is no zero sum game.
This is a bunch of socialist/ lib tripe aimed at fanning the flames of class envy.
Bottom line...If one wishes to increase their income, they need to stop bitching about what other people earn/ have and get off their asses and get to work.
Based on the fact that this entire premise is bullshit, this thread should be closed.

 

[bripat9643]

Most Americans would like to see more income equality. But they don't know how bad the problem actually is.

Once again, your source is some pinko professor who is surgically attached to the government tit.

 

[Auxous]

Let's say I have $100. I can take an informed and calculated risk and invest that $100 in machinery, raw materials, and wages plus licenses, fees, registrations, etc. and hope to turn that $100 into $200 less $20 in taxes. The $80 I net will support me nicely and also allow me to invest even more in the coming year and go for even more profit. That means I will utilize more services from others, buy more raw products, hire more people.

So you want to raise my taxes to $30. I might suck it up and think it was still worth the risk, time, effort, and mental stress to make the investment for a smaller net.

And now you want to raise my taxes to $40. I'll still have lots and lots left over, right?

But each time you are making the risk less and less worth it. And at some point, I will decide it isn't worth it at all. I'll pack it in and live on my $100 rather than gamble it. If I have no assurance what tax rate you eventually expect to impose or when you will impose it, I will also not take the risk.

And THAT is why we have trillions of dollars sidelined both here in America and stashed abroad right now because our fearless leader keeps threatening to increase taxes, regulation, requirements, mandates, etc. etc. etc. and business just isn't willing to risk the capital they have with so much uncertainty re the risk they will be taking.

Taxing investment is absurd. So isn't your profit for simply doing nothing.

You produced nothing, but receive a nice profit for it. How the hell is that just?

If that was directed to me I certainly was not talking about anything other than taxing profits made on honest commerce and industry.

Of course it was directed at you. I quoted you, didn't I? I believe in honest wealth, but we don't have this. We operate in a system where simply owning capital and income earning assets produces much wealth while not producing anything at all.

 

[bripat9643]

"Problem"? What problem? There are industrious, clever, risk-taking, smart entrepreneurial people in the world who get rich

And you think those are the people at the top?

So you think lazy shiftless morons are the kind of people who become wealthy?

 

[bripat9643]

"Problem"? What problem? There are industrious, clever, risk-taking, smart entrepreneurial people in the world who get rich, and there are lazy, stupid, parasitic, shiftless people who stay poor.

And an ever-increasing of industrious, clever, risk-taking, smart entrepreneurial people who go NO-WHERE, and their potential is never realized... This is an unfortunate effect of this type of inequality.

Where is the evidence for your idiotic claim?

 

[thereisnospoon]

"Problem"? What problem? There are industrious, clever, risk-taking, smart entrepreneurial people in the world who get rich, and there are lazy, stupid, parasitic, shiftless people who stay poor.

And an ever-increasing of industrious, clever, risk-taking, smart entrepreneurial people who go NO-WHERE, and their potential is never realized... This is an unfortunate effect of this type of inequality.

Bullshit..Even with hard work there are no guarantees. Not trying is far worse than trying and failing. Not accepting or uninterested in failure, most people who try and fail are most likely to try again.
This is the difference between the successful and the whiners who look to sponge off them.
We have become a nation where a growing but vocal minority have decided they are entitled to the possessions and income of others. Also, an entire generation of young people, coddled by their "helicopter" parents who see what others have and want it.....NOW.

 

[hellofromwarsaw]

Oh, we're just talking a few percentage points higher in taxes so the country doesn't fall totally apart. Get a grip.

 

[bripat9643]

It's not about that. Having a small group of people controlling the vast majority of income and therefore spending, is simply not good for an economy.

Sure it is. Having smart competent people control the majority of income is the best thing for the economy.

However, those charts are pure Marxist propaganda, so your lament is moot.

 

[Full-Auto]

It's not about that. Having a small group of people controlling the vast majority of income and therefore spending, is simply not good for an economy.

Sure it is. Having smart competent people control the majority of income is the best thing for the economy.

However, those charts are pure Marxist propaganda, so your lament is moot.

Dont be stupid is a little slow on the uptake.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Taxing investment is absurd. So isn't your profit for simply doing nothing.

You produced nothing, but receive a nice profit for it. How the hell is that just?

If that was directed to me I certainly was not talking about anything other than taxing profits made on honest commerce and industry.

Of course it was directed at you. I quoted you, didn't I? I believe in honest wealth, but we don't have this. We operate in a system where simply owning capital and income earning assets produces much wealth while not producing anything at all.

Capital can produce wealth "while not producing anything at all"?
Please explain further.
Maybe walk through the steps involved?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Got news for you, people arnt equal, some are worth more than others.

If people were equal anyone could be a supermodel.

Oh God give me strength.

It's not about that. Having a small group of people controlling the vast majority of income and therefore spending, is simply not good for an economy.

Please elaborate. Use facts and do not post anything from blogs. I would be interested in how the other side views this issue.
I wonder because as far as I am concerned what other people have has no bearing on me at all. None. As a matter of fact, I am unconcerned. I take care my own things and let others alone.

 

[dblack]

We operate in a system where simply owning capital and income earning assets produces much wealth while not producing anything at all.

That's not really true. You have to do something useful with your wealth to capitalize on it. If all you do is stuff it under your mattress, it won't earn you any income. At the bare minimum, you'd need to put it in the bank, and make it available for others to borrow. If you want to make more money than that, you'd have to study the markets and figure out where the money would be most useful, ie where it would draw the biggest return. Another way you could earn an income on it would be predicting what kinds of resources are the most important for future development, and collecting stockpiles of them for future use (speculation). The thing is, all of these activities provide valuable services, and they all require work to do successfully.

The notion that investment income and profit are 'money for nothing' makes a nice slogan to inspire uneducated class warriors, but it's a lie. Worse, it's a lie that will lead us to policies that nullify the valuable work that gets done in the pursuit of profits.

 

[bripat9643]

Are you one of the people who are worth more than others?

You're definitely one of the people who are worth less.

 

[hellofromwarsaw]

"We have become a nation where a growing but vocal minority have decided they are entitled to the possessions and income of others. Also, an entire generation of young people, coddled by their "helicopter" parents who see what others have and want it.....NOW."

Your brainwashed BS is breathtaking...Voodoo panders to bloated corporations and the rich, screws the workers till there's no demand left. Great job, pubbies...

 

[bripat9643]

Cons on this board, or even contemporary con politicians, will never seriously discuss this disparity problem, or stipulate that it even constitutes a problem. Which is a shame, because it's possibly the biggest problem we're facing.

That's right. It's only a "problem" for parasites, looters and moochers, just as how to break into a house is only a problem for thieves.

How much money anyone earns is simply not the government's business.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Got news for you, people arnt equal, some are worth more than others.

If people were equal anyone could be a supermodel.

Oh God give me strength.

Are you one of the people who are worth more than others?

That is an idiotic reply.
As much as you wwish for everyone to weep for the poor and the unfortunate AND of course those who make up the majority of public assistance recipients who are lazy sacks of shit who game the system, we are not equal. There are achievers and non achievers. There are smart people and there are not so smart. There is book smart and there are people who are street smart. No one is entitled to the results of the work of others just because they happen to be here.
If you are so concerned, write check. Keep your dirty little greedy paws off my stuff.

 

[hellofromwarsaw]

Harvard and Duke and the CBO put out Marxist propaganda? Hilarious if you people weren't ruining the country...absolutely brainwashed....