Zone1 Were all Israelites Jews?

[Woodznutz]

Many Jews believe that all the tribes of Israel, including Jacob himself, were Jews. What say you, Christians?

 

[theHawk]

Many Jews believe that all the tribes of Israel, including Jacob himself, were Jews. What say you, Christians?

It was conflated that all the descendants of Jacob were “Jews”, but really it is those that believe in God and keep their relationship with God. Those that turn their back on God are typically cut off from God and condemned, but even if all of them do that He still keeps his promise by working though the best of what is there.

The ancient Israelites believed in a coming Messiah. When He came, most rejected him (as was foretold) and only the few faithful believed in Jesus. Thus after the death and resurrection of Jesus, the only true Israelites were the ones that followed him.

See Galatians 4: 21-31

21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law,are you not aware of what the law says? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise.

24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar.25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written:

“Be glad, barren woman,
you who never bore a child;
shout for joy and cry aloud,
you who were never in labor;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband.”[e]
28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”[f] 31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.


When they reject Jesus/God, become children of Hagar. When a Gentile accepts Jesus, they become a child of Sarah/Israel.


See also Romans 11, Matthew 8:10-13, Rev 2:9, 3:9, 11:8.

 

[onefour1]

Were all Israelites Jews? NO.

 

[Woodznutz]

It was conflated that all the descendants of Jacob were “Jews”, but really it is those that believe in God and keep their relationship with God. Those that turn their back on God are typically cut off from God and condemned, but even if all of them do that He still keeps his promise by working though the best of what is there.

The ancient Israelites believed in a coming Messiah. When He came, most rejected him (as was foretold) and only the few faithful believed in Jesus. Thus after the death and resurrection of Jesus, the only true Israelites were the ones that followed him.

See Galatians 4: 21-31

21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law,are you not aware of what the law says? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise.

24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar.25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written:

“Be glad, barren woman,
you who never bore a child;
shout for joy and cry aloud,
you who were never in labor;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband.”[e]
28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”[f] 31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.


When they reject Jesus/God, become children of Hagar. When a Gentile accepts Jesus, they become a child of Sarah/Israel.


See also Romans 11, Matthew 8:10-13, Rev 2:9, 3:9, 11:8.

Also see Revelation 12.

 

[DudleySmith]

Jews themselves can't agree on who is Jewish or who isn't. The 'Master Race' BS promoted by the ultra-Orthodox, i.e. Haredi, and Hasidim cultists started with Babylonians and Ezra, babbling about tracing 'Jewishness' via the mother's lineage; they did this to discriminate against Jews who weren't exiled, and to set themselves up as the only 'real Jews' and become Cyrus's proxies; Cyrus built their '2nd Temple' for them, and they've been scamming ever since.

The Christian sect is older than Rabbinical Judaism and the Hasidic cult was invented in the 18th Century. The Christian sect adhere most closely to the Torah of Moses, the written Torah, and closest to the religion of Abraham than most of what is called 'Judaism' today.

Conservative Judaism is the next closest, and the most rational sect. It is also mostly American, and better Americans than a lot of Christian sects.

Conservative Judaism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

'Reform Judaism' is all over the place theologically.

Reform Judaism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The latter two are also much more recent inventions than Christianity as well. This is why 'Evangelicals' are rather ignorant when claiming they 'stand with the Jews' for Biblical reasons; few of them are the 'Jews' of the Old Testament Covenants. In fact, their Haredi and Hasidim sects are extreme racists, and pray for the deaths of Christians.

 

[alang1216]

It was conflated that all the descendants of Jacob were “Jews”, but really it is those that believe in God and keep their relationship with God. Those that turn their back on God are typically cut off from God and condemned, but even if all of them do that He still keeps his promise by working though the best of what is there.

The ancient Israelites believed in a coming Messiah. When He came, most rejected him (as was foretold) and only the few faithful believed in Jesus. Thus after the death and resurrection of Jesus, the only true Israelites were the ones that followed him.

See Galatians 4: 21-31

21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law,are you not aware of what the law says? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise.

24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar.25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written:

“Be glad, barren woman,
you who never bore a child;
shout for joy and cry aloud,
you who were never in labor;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband.”[e]
28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”[f] 31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.


When they reject Jesus/God, become children of Hagar. When a Gentile accepts Jesus, they become a child of Sarah/Israel.


See also Romans 11, Matthew 8:10-13, Rev 2:9, 3:9, 11:8.

Ancient Israelites were a people with a covenant with one god. That is why, according to the prophets, he punished all Israelites when some transgressed. All, not just some.

Most Jews rejected Jesus because he was exactly not the messiah they expected.

 

[Woodznutz]

Ancient Israelites were a people with a covenant with one god. That is why, according to the prophets, he punished all Israelites when some transgressed. All, not just some.

Most Jews rejected Jesus because he was exactly not the messiah they expected.

Jesus was the 'stumbling stone' for the Jews.

 

[alang1216]

Jesus was the 'stumbling stone' for the Jews.

Because Jews actually knew what the Bible said about the Messiah and Jesus was not him.

The Greek-speakers who wrote the Gospels were likely pagan converts who believed Jesus was the Jewish Messiah and took whatever they could reinterpret of the Bible to support their beliefs.

 

[DudleySmith]

Jesus was the 'stumbling stone' for the Jews.

Old school retro teachings for the most part. It was the scams set up by the returning Babylonians that left behind Moses and the previous theology.

Univeralism is implicit in monotheism; no different with Jewish theology.

Galatians 3:15-3:29

The Changeless Promise​

15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God [e]in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Purpose of the Law​

19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.


21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, [f]kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our [g]tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Sons and Heirs​

26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Many Jews believe that all the tribes of Israel, including Jacob himself, were Jews. What say you, Christians?

By definition, Jews are descendants of Judah, one of Jacob/Israel's twelve sons. Descendants of any of the twelve sons are Israelites.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Many Jews believe that all the tribes of Israel, including Jacob himself, were Jews. What say you, Christians?

Without reading past the OP, I suspect you understand the truth.

All Michiganders are Americans, but not all Americans are Michiganders.

I am Israel, of the Tribe of Manasseh, but not Judah (the Jews).

 

[Woodznutz]

Because Jews actually knew what the Bible said about the Messiah and Jesus was not him.

The Jews didn't like what the Bible said about him, that's why they rejected it.

 

[Woodznutz]

Without reading past the OP, I suspect you understand the truth.

All Michiganders are Americans, but not all Americans are Michiganders.

I am Israel, of the Tribe of Manasseh, but not Judah (the Jews).

I think irosie and alang also know this. They're just having fun.

 

[alang1216]

The Jews didn't like what the Bible said about him, that's why they rejected it.

No, the Christians didn’t like what the Jews said about their Messiah so they, essentially, rewrote the Bible to support their theology. Then they rewrote history to support their theology.

They had every right to do so but don't think they did anything but that.

 

[Woodznutz]

No, the Christians didn’t like what the Jews said about their Messiah so they, essentially, rewrote the Bible to support their theology. Then they rewrote history to support their theology.

They had every right to do so but don't think they did anything but that.

So, why don't the Jews just rewrite the Bible back to what it should say?

 

[alang1216]

So, why don't the Jews just rewrite the Bible back to what it should say?

The Bible is fine, it's the NT that takes liberties with it. Reading either as anything but, first and foremost, a work of theology is incorrect.

 

[Woodznutz]

The Bible is fine, it's the NT that takes liberties with it. Reading either as anything but, first and foremost, a work of theology is incorrect.

I thought the Jews pretty much ignore the New Testament.

 

[alang1216]

I thought the Jews pretty much ignore the New Testament.

They wish they could but it has been the source of too much anti-Semitism.

 

[Woodznutz]

They wish they could but it has been the source of too much anti-Semitism.

Well, those Pharisees were a nasty bunch.

 

[alang1216]

Well, those Pharisees were a nasty bunch.

No, they were fine people and they evolved to became the rabbinic Jews.