West should build bridges with Russia after end of Ukrainian conflict

[Silver Cat]

we can always supply fighter jets and bombers and long range missiles to the Ukranians if Putin doesn't accept this sweet deal.
but that's a threat that's gotta be put out on the low-low, under the table.
to utter that threat publicly is only going to invite talk of nuclear war as a stall/cancelling tactic.
and when they start talking of nuclear war, do remind them of how easy it is these days to vaporize Moscow.

They don't think it is easy to vaporize Moscow. In the case of their first counter-force strike we'll have only two SSBN's survived in Atlantic (right now it is USS Wyoming since Feb, 14 and USS Rhode Island since Feb, 13) and one of them, is, possibly tracked by a Russian Yasen- class attacking submarine. Which means barely more than one hundred of W76-1 90 kt warheads, and the ABD of Moscow region supposed to intercept two hundreds of them.
Even if not, Napoleon burned down Moscow too, but lost the war.
You provoke them by being too dangerous and too vulnerable simultaneously, they attack your strategic forces, you retaliate and attack their cities, they degrade your retaliation, alleviate its consequences, and now their third strike destroys America. Game over.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Poor logic, Silver Cat, for Texas has been part of the USA for 178 years.

Ukraine is an independent nation recognized by Russia under international law even though it unlawfully invaded Ukraine.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

They don't think it is easy to vaporize Moscow. In the case of their first counter-force strike we'll have only two SSBN's survived in Atlantic (right now it is USS Wyoming since Feb, 14 and USS Rhode Island since Feb, 13) and one of them, is, possibly tracked by a Russian Yasen- class attacking submarine. Which means barely more than one hundred of W76-1 90 kt warheads, and the ABD of Moscow region supposed to intercept two hundreds of them.
Even if not, Napoleon burned down Moscow too, but lost the war.
You provoke them by being too dangerous and too vulnerable simultaneously, they attack your strategic forces, you retaliate and attack their cities, they degrade your retaliation, alleviate its consequences, and now their third strike destroys America. Game over.

Silver Cat overrates Moscow's attack capacity and professional ability.

 

[ESay]

Yes. That's why Russia won't ever read that type of "agreement". NATO forces in Ukraine are unacceptable for Russia as, say, Russian and Chinese forces in Texas would be unacceptable for the USA.

I don't care. I am against any 'agreement' with Russia.

 

[rightwinger]

Actually, Russia's economy has much better perspectives than even American one (at least under incompetent Biden's rule).
Inflation rates in March.
View attachment 779763

Yes because Russians are living in luxury since the invasion

 

[José]

Originally posted by John Edgar Slow Horses
Poor logic, Silver Cat, for Texas has been part of the USA for 178 years.

Ukraine is an independent nation recognized by Russia under international law even though it unlawfully invaded Ukraine.

I fail to see any significant difference.

America waged war, invaded, occupied and annexed half of Mexico to protect the interests of an american immigrant community living in Texas for no more than 20, 30 years.

Russia is doing the same to protect the interests of a russian speaking community living in Ukraine for much longer that that.

You either condemn both or accept both.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

José does not set the standards here, just gets to comment like the rest of us. If the US was wrong in 1846, does not mean that is a valid reason for Russia to get its soldiery butts kicked and killed in Ukraine. His analysis does not because Ukraine is independent of Russia in the 21st Century, and what happened almost 200 years does not matter. Russia will be in dire straits by the beginning of summer. If Russian nationals don't like what the Ukis are doing, they can emigrate to Russia.​

 

[peacefan]

They don't think it is easy to vaporize Moscow. In the case of their first counter-force strike we'll have only two SSBN's survived in Atlantic (right now it is USS Wyoming since Feb, 14 and USS Rhode Island since Feb, 13) and one of them, is, possibly tracked by a Russian Yasen- class attacking submarine. Which means barely more than one hundred of W76-1 90 kt warheads, and the ABD of Moscow region supposed to intercept two hundreds of them.
Even if not, Napoleon burned down Moscow too, but lost the war.
You provoke them by being too dangerous and too vulnerable simultaneously, they attack your strategic forces, you retaliate and attack their cities, they degrade your retaliation, alleviate its consequences, and now their third strike destroys America. Game over.

no, it is the Russians who constantly put the threat of nuclear escalation on the table.

so we have every right to threaten their capital, and Beijing as well, if they decide to follow through on this.
just putting a realistic threat to vaporize those 2 cities with minutemen or whatever ordanance can get to them, should be enough to tone down the rethoric coming from the Russians and Chinese in any conflict where they think that nuclear umbrella is going to support their illegal conventional war strategies.
so it applies to Taiwan as well; in which case we could threaten Pyong-Yang and Beijing.

 

[marvin martian]

So you reward Russia for their unprovoked takeover
Given the humanitarian atrocities in the occupied territory, what makes you think Russia will be treated as liberators?

What kind of peace does Ukraine get?
A promise that Russia won’t invade again?

^^^The endless war DemoKKKrats will fight to the last drop of someone else's blood.

 

[Mac-7]

West should build bridges with Russia after end of Ukrainian conflict, expert says

Gerald Hyman, the senior advisor at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, suggested persuading the Russian leaders "to negotiate a tolerable resolution, and to provide clear benefits for doing so"

Remote : Sun, 23 Apr 2023 01:03:09 +0300
Local : 2023-04-23(Sunday) 00 : 03 : 09
Found via NicerApp WebOS

The West’s Weapons Won’t Make Any Difference to Ukraine

U.S. military equipment wouldn’t realistically help Ukrainians—or intimidate Putin.

foreignpolicy.com

i *also* think that the Ukranian conflict can not be solved by military force alone.
not with Beijing, North-Korea, Iran and Turkey backing the Russians.

how about you people?

Its premature to kiss and make up, or even discuss it, as long as russia is attacking ulraine

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

A new rapport can begin once Russia evacuates the four oblasts and the Crimea.

 

[peacefan]

Its premature to kiss and make up, or even discuss it, as long as russia is attacking ulraine

but that's exactly what should be considered at nearly all stages of open warfare; peace negotiations.
without it, your people are lost.

 

[Mac-7]

but that's exactly what should be considered at nearly all stages of open warfare; peace negotiations.
without it, your people are lost.

Peace is as simple as removing russian troops from ukraine

Nothing else is worth discussing

 

[peacefan]

Peace is as simple as removing russian troops from ukraine

Nothing else is worth discussing

i respectfully disagree; peace negotiations need carrots and sticks.

 

[rightwinger]

i respectfully disagree; peace negotiations need carrots and sticks.

Good point

What carrots are being offered to Ukraine to give up fighting for their territory?
What stick is being used against Russia?

 

[Polishprince]

West should build bridges with Russia after end of Ukrainian conflict, expert says

Gerald Hyman, the senior advisor at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, suggested persuading the Russian leaders "to negotiate a tolerable resolution, and to provide clear benefits for doing so"

Remote : Sun, 23 Apr 2023 01:03:09 +0300
Local : 2023-04-23(Sunday) 00 : 03 : 09
Found via NicerApp WebOS

The West’s Weapons Won’t Make Any Difference to Ukraine

U.S. military equipment wouldn’t realistically help Ukrainians—or intimidate Putin.

foreignpolicy.com

i *also* think that the Ukranian conflict can not be solved by military force alone.
not with Beijing, North-Korea, Iran and Turkey backing the Russians.

how about you people?

Maybe President Biden can send Hillary to Moscow with a "Reset" button to reset US-Soviet relations? Sleepy Joe can send the message "Tell Vlad I'll have more flexibility after the election".

 

[rightwinger]

Maybe President Biden can send Hillary to Moscow with a "Reset" button to reset US-Soviet relations? Sleepy Joe can send the message "Tell Vlad I'll have more flexibility after the election".

Putin should have accepted that Reset

His country would be better off for it

 

[Mac-7]

i respectfully disagree; peace negotiations need carrots and sticks.

So if putin agrees to only steal half of ukraine you’d take the deal?

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

but that's exactly what should be considered at nearly all stages of open warfare; peace negotiations.
without it, your people are lost.

Russia won't win the war because the West's determination will out last Muscovy's base and outside help.
Get rid of Putin and get to making peace.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

oh, we only played to the sentiments of their soldiers, allowing them in our homes for a coffee on occasion.
but we also had a resistance movement that was actively burning down warehouses with documents about the Jews, and which did assassinations of German troops and officers.

after the war, all those who had supported the Germans (by for instance fighting for the Germans, or women who slept with German troops), were shunned and disgraced by the rest of our society.
and that echoes to today, where we openly shun a new nationalist political party (pvv.nl) that is very anti-immigrant.

me? i would've been in the resistance. for sure.

The Dutch? Not Much!