What about the precedent that the zionist ideology in Palestine sets for the rest of the world?

[Coyote]

I have no problem backing that up. The zionists worked with the Nazis and Gaza has been called the largest concentration camp on earth by anyone who has seen it.

Israel today is almost entirely white, the near entirely white government has ruled since they came from another continent over the darker people including the darker Jews. And weather you call it white supremacist, zionist supremacist, European supremacist, I don't care. It's vile and the settlements are even worse.

Please grab some books and do some reading. If you would like suggestions for books, please message me.

Zionism as a popular movement began in the 1800's, and has been around a considerable amount of time. It's hardly comparable to the Nazi's and frankly I get sick and tired of the many false equivalencies people make with the Nazi's - whether it's comparing Muslims or Zionists.

The Nazi's murdered 2/3 of Europe's entire Jewish population. Decimated. Try to get your mind around that. It's not ancient history. It is something that occurred in supposedly civilized times. Then add in all the other groups they targeted and slaughtered.

People were sent in death trains to concentration camps - men, women, children, babies. They had already been systematically dehumanized during the lead up to this "solution".

Millions of human being were killed like cattle by the Nazi's or starved to death and stacked up like cordwood.

Live human beings were put through horrendous "medical" experimentation. Most died.

When you make arguments comparing them to Nazi's - or Gaza to a concentration camp, then you totally destroy your credibility. Because there are issues with Gaza and there are issues with inequality and poverty and injustice - but they are not comparable to the Nazi's or Concentration Camps.

If you want a real world comparison, on a far far smaller scale - look at the Rohinga. They are largely ignored...just like the Jews were. They are considered vermin. They are being held in camps, not allowed to work, not allowed to marry without government permission, not allowed to be educated. They are persecuted, slaughtered, hunted down and raped by the Buddhist majority. But there is far less energy put towards their flight - where they really are being ethnically cleansed. Where genocide really is quite likely occurring. But for some reason they don't inspire the passion that the Zionists and Palestinians do.

 

[Shusha]

Stealing land, ethnically cleansing over 80% of the population and telling the native people who remain (and who have died or been expelled) that you have written new laws and now own their property is as preposterous as it is yet another dangerous precedent for humanity.

Ironic given that one of your constant refrains is that there were no Jews left in the territory after it was stolen, ethnically cleansed and the native people who remained were subject to new laws and therefore, because of this, the Jewish people no longer have rights to the land. Seems like the precedent was set thousands of years ago. Double standard much?

 

[abi]

Zionism as a popular movement began in the 1800's, and has been around a considerable amount of time. It's hardly comparable to the Nazi's and frankly I get sick and tired of the many false equivalencies people make with the Nazi's - whether it's comparing Muslims or Zionists.

You can have your opinion. But many disagree.

The Nazi's murdered 2/3 of Europe's entire Jewish population. Decimated. Try to get your mind around that. It's not ancient history. It is something that occurred in supposedly civilized times. Then add in all the other groups they targeted and slaughtered.

The zionists's murdered or expelled 4/5 of Palestine's entire Arab population. Decimated. Try to get your mind around that. It's not ancient history. It is something that occurred in supposedly civilized times. Then add in all the other groups they targeted and slaughtered including Americans, British and even Jews.

People were sent in death trains to concentration camps - men, women, children, babies. They had already been systematically dehumanized during the lead up to this "solution".

Palestinians have been dehumanized for decades.

Millions of human being were killed like cattle by the Nazi's or starved to death and stacked up like cordwood.

Live human beings were put through horrendous "medical" experimentation. Most died.

When you make arguments comparing them to Nazi's - or Gaza to a concentration camp, then you totally destroy your credibility. Because there are issues with Gaza and there are issues with inequality and poverty and injustice - but they are not comparable to the Nazi's or Concentration Camps.

If you want a real world comparison, on a far far smaller scale - look at the Rohinga. They are largely ignored...just like the Jews were. They are considered vermin. They are being held in camps, not allowed to work, not allowed to marry without government permission, not allowed to be educated. They are persecuted, slaughtered, hunted down and raped by the Buddhist majority. But there is far less energy put towards their flight - where they really are being ethnically cleansed. Where genocide really is quite likely occurring. But for some reason they don't inspire the passion that the Zionists and Palestinians do.

I disagree and we have witnessed a slyer, a darker and a slower genocide that has been taking place for decades. I do not care if you see that or not. It wasn't one war in '48, one in '56, one in '67, one in '73, etc., it has been one nonstop brutal and multigenerational war of aggression.

The world eventually stepped in and stopped the Nazis and the zionists will not stop until the world steps in again. Mark my words.

 

[abi]

Zionism as a popular movement began in the 1800's

Yeah, guess how?

This will make you go 'Hm.' Bush and Churchill, the original zionists?

 

[abi]

Coyote,

Since you either don't read my words or understand them, here is a perfect explanation of zionism that is simple to understand:

 

[flacaltenn]

What are the Palestinians doing to ORGANIZE for nationhood?? Other than sucking down UN/Intl funding and pooping it away?

Yup, the zionist has to blame the victim. It has to be done constantly.

Awwww C'mon.. I'm putting blame on where it belongs right now. No random assembly of rock throwers gets the keys to brand new nation by being EVICTED from their last 2 or 3 host countries without a little organization and work.

Where is the diplomatic negotiating team that speaks for Palestinian nationalism?

How can you "help" a people attain and FOUND a nation that refuses to ELECT and APPOINT leadership?

And since you're so intimately wound into this ---
When is the last time YOU voted in a Palestinian election for leadership that reflects YOUR views?

THAT -- Abi -- is "the system". The way things work in the Real World.. Being a "victim" is not sufficient for making it to a legally binding settlement on "nationhood"..

 

[Coyote]

Zionism as a popular movement began in the 1800's, and has been around a considerable amount of time. It's hardly comparable to the Nazi's and frankly I get sick and tired of the many false equivalencies people make with the Nazi's - whether it's comparing Muslims or Zionists.

You can have your opinion. But many disagree.

The Nazi's murdered 2/3 of Europe's entire Jewish population. Decimated. Try to get your mind around that. It's not ancient history. It is something that occurred in supposedly civilized times. Then add in all the other groups they targeted and slaughtered.

The zionists's murdered or expelled 4/5 of Palestine's entire Arab population. Decimated. Try to get your mind around that. It's not ancient history. It is something that occurred in supposedly civilized times. Then add in all the other groups they targeted and slaughtered including Americans, British and even Jews.

Really? You have a source for that?

Here are some more facts. The "zionists" did not kill 4/5 of Palestine's Arab Population. The Nazi's DID kill 2/3 of Europe's Jews amongst many others also slaughtered. A death toll of somewhere around 6 million Jews and 5 million non-Jews. That's 11 million people killed. That's in the history books. Not my "opinion".

Secondly the "zionists" did not expell 4/5 of Palestine's entire Arab population. People fled for a variety of reasons: some fled from fear of war and were prevented from returning, others were expelled by the Jewish militant groups. There was and still is a huge number of displaced people as a consequence of war - as is with ANY war. Unlike the Nazi's - people were not systematically rounded up and exterminated. When you try to make those comparisons you negate the very real affect of Nakba on the Palestinians with that false equivalency.

Here is one site's version of the numbers - and yes, it's a biased site, but it's compelling in what it says and what it doesn't say:

The Nakba by the Numbers

• Between 750,000 and one million : The number of Palestinians expelled and made refugees by Zionist paramilitaries, and subsequently Israeli forces, during Israel’s creation in 1947-49.
• Between 250,000 and 350,000 : The number of Palestinians expelled from their homes by Zionist paramilitaries between the passage of the UN partition plan in November 1947 and Israel’s declaration of independence on May15, 1948 - prior to the start of the war with neighboring Arab states.
• Approximately 7.1 million : The number of Palestinian refugees and displaced persons as of 2009, including Nakba survivors and their descendants. They are located mostly in the occupied West Bank and neighboring Arab countries such as Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria, denied their internationally-recognized legal right to return to their homeland by Israel, simply because they are not Jewish.
• Approximately 150,000 : The number of Palestinians who remained inside what became Israel's borders in 1948, many of them internally displaced. These Palestinians (sometimes called “Israeli Arabs”) were granted Israeli citizenship but stripped of most of their land and placed under martial law until 1966. Today, there are approximately 1.6 million Palestinian citizens of Israel, who live as second-class citizens in their own homeland, subject to more than 50 laws that discriminate against them because they are not Jewish.
• At least two dozen : The number of massacres of Palestinian civilians by Zionist and Israeli forces, which played a crucial role in spurring the mass flight of Palestinians from their homes.
• Approximately 100 : The number of Palestinian civilians, including women and children, massacred in the town of Deir Yassin on April 9, 1948, by members of the Irgun and Stern Gang, pre-state Zionist terrorist organizations led by future Israeli prime ministers Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir, respectively.
• More than 400 : The number of Palestinian cities and towns systematically destroyed by Israeli forces or repopulated with Jews between 1948 and 1950. Most Palestinian population centers, including homes, businesses, houses of worship, and vibrant urban centers, were demolished to prevent the return of their Palestinian owners, now refugees outside of Israel's pre-1967 borders, or internally displaced inside of them. (See here for interactive map of Palestinian population centers destroyed during Israel's creation.)
• Approximately 4,244,776 : The number of acres of Palestinian land expropriated by Israel during and immediately following its creation in 1948.
• Between 100 and 200 billion : The total estimated monetary loss of Palestinians dispossessed during Israel's creation, in current US dollars.

What is says is at least two dozen massacres of civilians and approximately 100 civilians massacred in Deir Yassin.

How does that compare with the Nazi's 11 million victims? Where are the concentration camps?

People were sent in death trains to concentration camps - men, women, children, babies. They had already been systematically dehumanized during the lead up to this "solution".

Palestinians have been dehumanized for decades.

And I absolutely agree with you on that. So how does that justify dehumanizing the Jews?

Millions of human being were killed like cattle by the Nazi's or starved to death and stacked up like cordwood.

Live human beings were put through horrendous "medical" experimentation. Most died.

When you make arguments comparing them to Nazi's - or Gaza to a concentration camp, then you totally destroy your credibility. Because there are issues with Gaza and there are issues with inequality and poverty and injustice - but they are not comparable to the Nazi's or Concentration Camps.

If you want a real world comparison, on a far far smaller scale - look at the Rohinga. They are largely ignored...just like the Jews were. They are considered vermin. They are being held in camps, not allowed to work, not allowed to marry without government permission, not allowed to be educated. They are persecuted, slaughtered, hunted down and raped by the Buddhist majority. But there is far less energy put towards their flight - where they really are being ethnically cleansed. Where genocide really is quite likely occurring. But for some reason they don't inspire the passion that the Zionists and Palestinians do.

I disagree and we have witnessed a slyer, a darker and a slower genocide that has been taking place for decades. I do not care if you see that or not. It wasn't one war in '48, one in '56, one in '67, one in '73, etc., it has been one nonstop brutal and multigenerational war of aggression.

The world eventually stepped in and stopped the Nazis and the zionists will not stop until the world steps in again. Mark my words.

Genocide. What genocide? According to the source I used above there are 7.1 million displaced Palestinians and their descendents. According to this article, Palestinians are going to outnumber Jews by 2020: Palestinians to outnumber Jewish population by 2020, says PA report

 

[abi]

Zionism as a popular movement began in the 1800's, and has been around a considerable amount of time. It's hardly comparable to the Nazi's and frankly I get sick and tired of the many false equivalencies people make with the Nazi's - whether it's comparing Muslims or Zionists.

You can have your opinion. But many disagree.

The Nazi's murdered 2/3 of Europe's entire Jewish population. Decimated. Try to get your mind around that. It's not ancient history. It is something that occurred in supposedly civilized times. Then add in all the other groups they targeted and slaughtered.

The zionists's murdered or expelled 4/5 of Palestine's entire Arab population. Decimated. Try to get your mind around that. It's not ancient history. It is something that occurred in supposedly civilized times. Then add in all the other groups they targeted and slaughtered including Americans, British and even Jews.

Really? You have a source for that?

Here are some more facts. The "zionists" did not kill 4/5 of Palestine's Arab Population. The Nazi's DID kill 2/3 of Europe's Jews amongst many others also slaughtered. A death toll of somewhere around 6 million Jews and 5 million non-Jews. That's 11 million people killed. That's in the history books. Not my "opinion".

Secondly the "zionists" did not expell 4/5 of Palestine's entire Arab population. People fled for a variety of reasons: some fled from fear of war and were prevented from returning, others were expelled by the Jewish militant groups. There was and still is a huge number of displaced people as a consequence of war - as is with ANY war. Unlike the Nazi's - people were not systematically rounded up and exterminated. When you try to make those comparisons you negate the very real affect of Nakba on the Palestinians with that false equivalency.

Here is one site's version of the numbers - and yes, it's a biased site, but it's compelling in what it says and what it doesn't say:

The Nakba by the Numbers

• Between 750,000 and one million : The number of Palestinians expelled and made refugees by Zionist paramilitaries, and subsequently Israeli forces, during Israel’s creation in 1947-49.
• Between 250,000 and 350,000 : The number of Palestinians expelled from their homes by Zionist paramilitaries between the passage of the UN partition plan in November 1947 and Israel’s declaration of independence on May15, 1948 - prior to the start of the war with neighboring Arab states.
• Approximately 7.1 million : The number of Palestinian refugees and displaced persons as of 2009, including Nakba survivors and their descendants. They are located mostly in the occupied West Bank and neighboring Arab countries such as Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria, denied their internationally-recognized legal right to return to their homeland by Israel, simply because they are not Jewish.
• Approximately 150,000 : The number of Palestinians who remained inside what became Israel's borders in 1948, many of them internally displaced. These Palestinians (sometimes called “Israeli Arabs”) were granted Israeli citizenship but stripped of most of their land and placed under martial law until 1966. Today, there are approximately 1.6 million Palestinian citizens of Israel, who live as second-class citizens in their own homeland, subject to more than 50 laws that discriminate against them because they are not Jewish.
• At least two dozen : The number of massacres of Palestinian civilians by Zionist and Israeli forces, which played a crucial role in spurring the mass flight of Palestinians from their homes.
• Approximately 100 : The number of Palestinian civilians, including women and children, massacred in the town of Deir Yassin on April 9, 1948, by members of the Irgun and Stern Gang, pre-state Zionist terrorist organizations led by future Israeli prime ministers Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir, respectively.
• More than 400 : The number of Palestinian cities and towns systematically destroyed by Israeli forces or repopulated with Jews between 1948 and 1950. Most Palestinian population centers, including homes, businesses, houses of worship, and vibrant urban centers, were demolished to prevent the return of their Palestinian owners, now refugees outside of Israel's pre-1967 borders, or internally displaced inside of them. (See here for interactive map of Palestinian population centers destroyed during Israel's creation.)
• Approximately 4,244,776 : The number of acres of Palestinian land expropriated by Israel during and immediately following its creation in 1948.
• Between 100 and 200 billion : The total estimated monetary loss of Palestinians dispossessed during Israel's creation, in current US dollars.

What is says is at least two dozen massacres of civilians and approximately 100 civilians massacred in Deir Yassin.

How does that compare with the Nazi's 11 million victims? Where are the concentration camps?

People were sent in death trains to concentration camps - men, women, children, babies. They had already been systematically dehumanized during the lead up to this "solution".

Palestinians have been dehumanized for decades.

And I absolutely agree with you on that. So how does that justify dehumanizing the Jews?

Millions of human being were killed like cattle by the Nazi's or starved to death and stacked up like cordwood.

Live human beings were put through horrendous "medical" experimentation. Most died.

When you make arguments comparing them to Nazi's - or Gaza to a concentration camp, then you totally destroy your credibility. Because there are issues with Gaza and there are issues with inequality and poverty and injustice - but they are not comparable to the Nazi's or Concentration Camps.

If you want a real world comparison, on a far far smaller scale - look at the Rohinga. They are largely ignored...just like the Jews were. They are considered vermin. They are being held in camps, not allowed to work, not allowed to marry without government permission, not allowed to be educated. They are persecuted, slaughtered, hunted down and raped by the Buddhist majority. But there is far less energy put towards their flight - where they really are being ethnically cleansed. Where genocide really is quite likely occurring. But for some reason they don't inspire the passion that the Zionists and Palestinians do.

I disagree and we have witnessed a slyer, a darker and a slower genocide that has been taking place for decades. I do not care if you see that or not. It wasn't one war in '48, one in '56, one in '67, one in '73, etc., it has been one nonstop brutal and multigenerational war of aggression.

The world eventually stepped in and stopped the Nazis and the zionists will not stop until the world steps in again. Mark my words.

Genocide. What genocide? According to the source I used above there are 7.1 million displaced Palestinians and their descendents. According to this article, Palestinians are going to outnumber Jews by 2020: Palestinians to outnumber Jewish population by 2020, says PA report

You don't believe the zionist ideology sets a dangerous precedent. You are a zionist and are entitled to your opinion, but clearly, you are wrong.

What other people sends there trolls to message boards all over America?

Do the good guys even need to do that? I would bet not.

 

[Coyote]

Zionism as a popular movement began in the 1800's, and has been around a considerable amount of time. It's hardly comparable to the Nazi's and frankly I get sick and tired of the many false equivalencies people make with the Nazi's - whether it's comparing Muslims or Zionists.

You can have your opinion. But many disagree.

The Nazi's murdered 2/3 of Europe's entire Jewish population. Decimated. Try to get your mind around that. It's not ancient history. It is something that occurred in supposedly civilized times. Then add in all the other groups they targeted and slaughtered.

The zionists's murdered or expelled 4/5 of Palestine's entire Arab population. Decimated. Try to get your mind around that. It's not ancient history. It is something that occurred in supposedly civilized times. Then add in all the other groups they targeted and slaughtered including Americans, British and even Jews.

Really? You have a source for that?

Here are some more facts. The "zionists" did not kill 4/5 of Palestine's Arab Population. The Nazi's DID kill 2/3 of Europe's Jews amongst many others also slaughtered. A death toll of somewhere around 6 million Jews and 5 million non-Jews. That's 11 million people killed. That's in the history books. Not my "opinion".

Secondly the "zionists" did not expell 4/5 of Palestine's entire Arab population. People fled for a variety of reasons: some fled from fear of war and were prevented from returning, others were expelled by the Jewish militant groups. There was and still is a huge number of displaced people as a consequence of war - as is with ANY war. Unlike the Nazi's - people were not systematically rounded up and exterminated. When you try to make those comparisons you negate the very real affect of Nakba on the Palestinians with that false equivalency.

Here is one site's version of the numbers - and yes, it's a biased site, but it's compelling in what it says and what it doesn't say:

The Nakba by the Numbers

• Between 750,000 and one million : The number of Palestinians expelled and made refugees by Zionist paramilitaries, and subsequently Israeli forces, during Israel’s creation in 1947-49.
• Between 250,000 and 350,000 : The number of Palestinians expelled from their homes by Zionist paramilitaries between the passage of the UN partition plan in November 1947 and Israel’s declaration of independence on May15, 1948 - prior to the start of the war with neighboring Arab states.
• Approximately 7.1 million : The number of Palestinian refugees and displaced persons as of 2009, including Nakba survivors and their descendants. They are located mostly in the occupied West Bank and neighboring Arab countries such as Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria, denied their internationally-recognized legal right to return to their homeland by Israel, simply because they are not Jewish.
• Approximately 150,000 : The number of Palestinians who remained inside what became Israel's borders in 1948, many of them internally displaced. These Palestinians (sometimes called “Israeli Arabs”) were granted Israeli citizenship but stripped of most of their land and placed under martial law until 1966. Today, there are approximately 1.6 million Palestinian citizens of Israel, who live as second-class citizens in their own homeland, subject to more than 50 laws that discriminate against them because they are not Jewish.
• At least two dozen : The number of massacres of Palestinian civilians by Zionist and Israeli forces, which played a crucial role in spurring the mass flight of Palestinians from their homes.
• Approximately 100 : The number of Palestinian civilians, including women and children, massacred in the town of Deir Yassin on April 9, 1948, by members of the Irgun and Stern Gang, pre-state Zionist terrorist organizations led by future Israeli prime ministers Menachem Begin and Yitzhak Shamir, respectively.
• More than 400 : The number of Palestinian cities and towns systematically destroyed by Israeli forces or repopulated with Jews between 1948 and 1950. Most Palestinian population centers, including homes, businesses, houses of worship, and vibrant urban centers, were demolished to prevent the return of their Palestinian owners, now refugees outside of Israel's pre-1967 borders, or internally displaced inside of them. (See here for interactive map of Palestinian population centers destroyed during Israel's creation.)
• Approximately 4,244,776 : The number of acres of Palestinian land expropriated by Israel during and immediately following its creation in 1948.
• Between 100 and 200 billion : The total estimated monetary loss of Palestinians dispossessed during Israel's creation, in current US dollars.

What is says is at least two dozen massacres of civilians and approximately 100 civilians massacred in Deir Yassin.

How does that compare with the Nazi's 11 million victims? Where are the concentration camps?

People were sent in death trains to concentration camps - men, women, children, babies. They had already been systematically dehumanized during the lead up to this "solution".

Palestinians have been dehumanized for decades.

And I absolutely agree with you on that. So how does that justify dehumanizing the Jews?

Millions of human being were killed like cattle by the Nazi's or starved to death and stacked up like cordwood.

Live human beings were put through horrendous "medical" experimentation. Most died.

When you make arguments comparing them to Nazi's - or Gaza to a concentration camp, then you totally destroy your credibility. Because there are issues with Gaza and there are issues with inequality and poverty and injustice - but they are not comparable to the Nazi's or Concentration Camps.

If you want a real world comparison, on a far far smaller scale - look at the Rohinga. They are largely ignored...just like the Jews were. They are considered vermin. They are being held in camps, not allowed to work, not allowed to marry without government permission, not allowed to be educated. They are persecuted, slaughtered, hunted down and raped by the Buddhist majority. But there is far less energy put towards their flight - where they really are being ethnically cleansed. Where genocide really is quite likely occurring. But for some reason they don't inspire the passion that the Zionists and Palestinians do.

I disagree and we have witnessed a slyer, a darker and a slower genocide that has been taking place for decades. I do not care if you see that or not. It wasn't one war in '48, one in '56, one in '67, one in '73, etc., it has been one nonstop brutal and multigenerational war of aggression.

The world eventually stepped in and stopped the Nazis and the zionists will not stop until the world steps in again. Mark my words.

Genocide. What genocide? According to the source I used above there are 7.1 million displaced Palestinians and their descendents. According to this article, Palestinians are going to outnumber Jews by 2020: Palestinians to outnumber Jewish population by 2020, says PA report

You don't believe the zionist ideology sets a dangerous precedent. You are a zionist and are entitled to your opinion, but clearly, you are wrong.

What other people sends there trolls to message boards all over America?

Do the good guys even need to do that? I would bet not.

No I am not a "Zionist", far from it. What I am is a rational person who supports tbe right of the Palestinian people to a state and support actual constructive work towards that end. Demonizing a people, trying to erase their heritage if not exhistence in this land is not the way to do it. I object to it when it is done to the Palestinians and I object to it when itis done to the Jews. The only possible out to your double standard is increased violence because extremists on each wont grant the other legitimacy.

 

[abi]

No I am not a "Zionist"

Self-identify as anything you like; isn't that how it works now?

Demonizing a people, trying to erase their heritage if not exhistence in this land is not the way to do it.

I never did that.

The only possible out to your double standard is increased violence because extremists on each wont grant the other legitimacy.

The only reason for the violence is occupation. This isn't a Jewish or Muslim thing. This is an occupation thing.

Zionists always start the story in the middle.

 

[Coyote]

No I am not a "Zionist"

Self-identify as anything you like; isn't that how it works now

Demonizing a people, trying to erase their heritage if not exhistence in this land is not the way to do it.

I never did that.

The only possible out to your double standard is increased violence because extremists on each wont grant the other legitimacy.

The only reason for the violence is occupation. This isn't a Jewish or Muslim thing. This is an occupation thing.

Zionists always start the story in the middle.

Go by my posting history then. The pro-Israeli faction is probably laughing hysterically now at the thought of me as a Zionist.

You absolutely are demonizing the Jews in this conflict even though you divide them into Zionists and the rest. When you conflate Nazism with Zionism. When you claim Jews (not just Zionists have no ties to their sacred places. When you condemn immigration from Europe but remain silent on corresponding immigration from Arab states.

Where is the real concern for Palestinians? How about the huge development and infrastructure inequities, the problems for Palestinians in east Jerusalum as Jerusalem's borders are sureptiosly expanded to encompass Palestian areas without a corresponding citizenship? Or family reunification issues when families are split by borders? What about tbe complete lack of elections for the Palestinians and the unwillingness of those in power to give it up to a democratic process? Why do they have concrete for tunnels but not houses? Or rewarding those who condict deliberate attacks on civilians? There are so many issues to address but alas they require more effort to address because its not as simple as demonizing Jews and Zionists.

 

[Shusha]

The pro-Israeli faction is probably laughing hysterically now at the thought of me as a Zionist.

 

[Shusha]

Coyote

You actually are a Zionist, you know. But shhhhh....we won't tell anyone.

 

[abi]

Go by my posting history then. The pro-Israeli faction is probably laughing hysterically now at the thought of me as a Zionist.

Just the fanatical, somewhat crazy and mostly uneducated ones who believe that there are no settlements, that there is no apartheid or even a supremacist mentality that rules the zionist narrative.

You absolutely are demonizing the Jews in this conflict even though you divide them into Zionists and the rest. When you conflate Nazism with Zionism. When you claim Jews (not just Zionists have no ties to their sacred places. When you condemn immigration from Europe but remain silent on corresponding immigration from Arab states.

I disagree completely. Many Jews can't stand the zionists, talk about conflating, many Jews understand the connections to the Nazis and see the ongoing occupation for what it is.

Where is the real concern for Palestinians? How about the huge development and infrastructure inequities, the problems for Palestinians in east Jerusalum as Jerusalem's borders are sureptiosly expanded to encompass Palestian areas without a corresponding citizenship? Or family reunification issues when families are split by borders? What about tbe complete lack of elections for the Palestinians and the unwillingness of those in power to give it up to a democratic process? Why do they have concrete for tunnels but not houses? Or rewarding those who condict deliberate attacks on civilians? There are so many issues to address but alas they require more effort to address because its not as simple as demonizing Jews and Zionists.

End the occupation and allow the Palestinians that right of return.

 

[Shusha]

abi


Coyote is VERY pro-P. And not at all anti-Israel. Which is absolutely the best combination to have discussion with. Biased but balanced. I strive for this combination. Apparently, I'm not hitting it. (sadface).

 

[abi]

abi


Coyote is VERY pro-P. And not at all anti-Israel. Which is absolutely the best combination to have discussion with. Biased but balanced. I strive for this combination. Apparently, I'm not hitting it. (sadface).

You are entitled to your opinion, but to get back on topic, in your mind do the Romans, now after two millennia, have a right to claim Britain for their own?

That idea seems preposterous to me, and probably to most people, but I'm curious if that's what you think.

 

[Hollie]

abi


Coyote is VERY pro-P. And not at all anti-Israel. Which is absolutely the best combination to have discussion with. Biased but balanced. I strive for this combination. Apparently, I'm not hitting it. (sadface).

You are entitled to your opinion, but to get back on topic, in your mind do the Romans, now after two millennia, have a right to claim Britain for their own?

That idea seems preposterous to me, and probably to most people, but I'm curious if that's what you think.

On the other hand, what is preposterous is your notion that Islamist invaders can seize land and then declare that the land is a waqf; land eternally and perpetually the property of Islamics.

You realize we’re living in the year 2017, not 1017, right?

 

[Coyote]

Go by my posting history then. The pro-Israeli faction is probably laughing hysterically now at the thought of me as a Zionist.

Just the fanatical, somewhat crazy and mostly uneducated ones who believe that there are no settlements, that there is no apartheid or even a supremacist mentality that rules the zionist narrative.

You absolutely are demonizing the Jews in this conflict even though you divide them into Zionists and the rest. When you conflate Nazism with Zionism. When you claim Jews (not just Zionists have no ties to their sacred places. When you condemn immigration from Europe but remain silent on corresponding immigration from Arab states.

I disagree completely. Many Jews can't stand the zionists, talk about conflating, many Jews understand the connections to the Nazis and see the ongoing occupation for what it is.

Where is the real concern for Palestinians? How about the huge development and infrastructure inequities, the problems for Palestinians in east Jerusalum as Jerusalem's borders are sureptiosly expanded to encompass Palestian areas without a corresponding citizenship? Or family reunification issues when families are split by borders? What about tbe complete lack of elections for the Palestinians and the unwillingness of those in power to give it up to a democratic process? Why do they have concrete for tunnels but not houses? Or rewarding those who condict deliberate attacks on civilians? There are so many issues to address but alas they require more effort to address because its not as simple as demonizing Jews and Zionists.

End the occupation and allow the Palestinians that right of return.

And when millions of Palestinians, many of whom werent born there or include those who's families immigrated from other countries...what then? What happens to the Jews?

 

[montelatici]

Go by my posting history then. The pro-Israeli faction is probably laughing hysterically now at the thought of me as a Zionist.

Just the fanatical, somewhat crazy and mostly uneducated ones who believe that there are no settlements, that there is no apartheid or even a supremacist mentality that rules the zionist narrative.

You absolutely are demonizing the Jews in this conflict even though you divide them into Zionists and the rest. When you conflate Nazism with Zionism. When you claim Jews (not just Zionists have no ties to their sacred places. When you condemn immigration from Europe but remain silent on corresponding immigration from Arab states.

I disagree completely. Many Jews can't stand the zionists, talk about conflating, many Jews understand the connections to the Nazis and see the ongoing occupation for what it is.

Where is the real concern for Palestinians? How about the huge development and infrastructure inequities, the problems for Palestinians in east Jerusalum as Jerusalem's borders are sureptiosly expanded to encompass Palestian areas without a corresponding citizenship? Or family reunification issues when families are split by borders? What about tbe complete lack of elections for the Palestinians and the unwillingness of those in power to give it up to a democratic process? Why do they have concrete for tunnels but not houses? Or rewarding those who condict deliberate attacks on civilians? There are so many issues to address but alas they require more effort to address because its not as simple as demonizing Jews and Zionists.

End the occupation and allow the Palestinians that right of return.

And when millions of Palestinians, many of whom werent born there or include those who's families immigrated from other countries...what then? What happens to the Jews?

Very few non-Jews immigrated to Palestine, contrary to the propaganda. From the Survey of
Palestine

AWOL - The Ancient World Online: Online British Mandate: A Survey of Palestine

 

[PredFan]

I'm not trying to be funny, but seriously now. If I understand the zionist position, it boils down to might is right - or might makes right. But, there is also the idea that if a people were somewhere in ancient times, that they still retain rights to that land. I am constantly reminded about a peoples' right to self-determination in their ancestral homeland. Am I okay so far?

Good.

Now, since we came from Asia, across the Bering Straight, would this ideology not give Americans the right to demolish homes in Asia today, demolish entire cities even? Can we go on to murder and expel those living there today? If any remain, can we imprison them behind walls? Can we use our military to enforce a new government upon them based on our laws, in our cities built where theirs just stood?

I think it is important to see what a dangerous precedent this sets for people the world over.

No you aren’t alright so far, you are way off base and have misrepresented your opponents position specifically so you could get the upper hand and gorse the conclusion you wanted. It’s called a strawman argument and it is false.