What are the grounds for trumps fraud appeal ?

[Tommy Tainant]

Legal basis for Trump's appeal?
Is “ no victims” a legal basis for appealing NY state's civil court's February 16, NY state vs Trump decisions? I haven't been able to find an internet site discussing the legal basis for such an appeal or any precedent of NY state prosecuting for a "no victims" case.
Respectfully, Supposn

I wonder if he will appeal. People assume that he has done a lot worse anyway.

 

[Oldestyle]

Trump ordered to pay $355m to New York for lying to banks

In the civil case, a judge ordered the penalty to keep him and his sons from continuing "fraudulent ways".

www.bbc.co.uk

He will appeal this . I can only see it as a delaying tactic.
Does he have any grounds to appeal this judgement ?

You mean other than selective prosecution?
When you're the only person to ever be charged for something that virtually EVERY OTHER real estate developer does and then the Governor of the State of New York comes out and says that nobody else should worry about being prosecuted like that...that it was only going to be used against Trump?
To be quite blunt, Tommy? This entire judgement borders on farce.

 

[rightwinger]

Legally he has a duty of candour to the lenders.They must be stupid if they take the word of trump but they should still be entitled to the truth.

If it was signed by Trump, he is certifying it is accurate

 

[hadit]

Trump ordered to pay $355m to New York for lying to banks

In the civil case, a judge ordered the penalty to keep him and his sons from continuing "fraudulent ways".

www.bbc.co.uk

He will appeal this . I can only see it as a delaying tactic.
Does he have any grounds to appeal this judgement ?

Absolutely, he does. Naturally, you do not see any problems with the ruling because you hate TRUMP!, but step back and look at it logically.

1. Have any other big-time developers been fined hundreds of millions for a deal in which no one was damaged? If not, there's a problem.
2. Do you honestly believe that the bank was defrauded because they just took TRUMP! at his word and didn't bother to check on the value of the property? If they were, somebody at the bank needs to be prosecuted for malpractice. I'll save you some time, the bank was not defrauded. They testified to that effect.
3. Do you not think that the governor's statement that other developers don't need to be worried because they're only going after TRUMP! will stand? Applying the law to only one person is a big problem.

There are a LOT of problems with this particular ruling, and I believe it will be overturned.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

You mean other than selective prosecution?
When you're the only person to ever be charged for something that virtually EVERY OTHER real estate developer does and then the Governor of the State of New York comes out and says that nobody else should worry about being prosecuted like that...that it was only going to be used against Trump?
To be quite blunt, Tommy? This entire judgement borders on farce.

Then they should all be prosecuted. It makes no case for letting the fat fraudulant bastard off the hook.

 

[hadit]

If it was signed by Trump, he is certifying it is accurate

And the bank officers put their signatures on the contract as well, signifying that they agreed the appraisal was accurate. Are you trying to claim they didn't bother to check? If they didn't, somebody should be on the chopping block, right now.

 

[hadit]

Then they should all be prosecuted. It makes no case for letting the fat fraudulant bastard off the hook.

Oh, that would be quite the circus, and would shut down construction in New York, because no one would want to do business where they can be shaken down for millions over deals in which no one was damaged and all parties agreed.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Absolutely, he does. Naturally, you do not see any problems with the ruling because you hate TRUMP!, but step back and look at it logically.

1. Have any other big-time developers been fined hundreds of millions for a deal in which no one was damaged? If not, there's a problem.
2. Do you honestly believe that the bank was defrauded because they just took TRUMP! at his word and didn't bother to check on the value of the property? If they were, somebody at the bank needs to be prosecuted for malpractice. I'll save you some time, the bank was not defrauded. They testified to that effect.
3. Do you not think that the governor's statement that other developers don't need to be worried because they're only going after TRUMP! will stand? Applying the law to only one person is a big problem.

There are a LOT of problems with this particular ruling, and I believe it will be overturned.

So you admit trump is a fraudster. That is a step forward.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Oh, that would be quite the circus, and would shut down construction in New York, because no one would want to do business where they can be shaken down for millions over deals in which no one was damaged and all parties agreed.

Honest people would be fine.Lots of money to be made in New York by hoonest people. kick out the grifters like trump.

 

[hadit]

There were no victims. Who gets the money?

I think this is just another avenue a New York bureaucrat saw as a potential windfall for the state. Obviously, the state gets everything. It always does, and does no one else find it interesting that the same body that determines a defendant's guilt and the fine imposed gets the money as well? Wouldn't it be cool to have the authority to not only find your neighbor guilty of not cutting his grass, but decide how much to fine him and you get to keep all the money?

 

[hadit]

So you admit trump is a fraudster. That is a step forward.

I admit that he gave a proposed valuation of his property and the bank, after checking on the value of said property, agreed on a valuation. Are the bank officers also into fraud?

 

[hadit]

Honest people would be fine.Lots of money to be made in New York by hoonest people. kick out the grifters like trump.

You have a rose colored glass view of big business, especially New York real estate Big Business and the banks that work in it.

 

[rightwinger]

Oh, that would be quite the circus, and would shut down construction in New York, because no one would want to do business where they can be shaken down for millions over deals in which no one was damaged and all parties agreed.

Are you claiming real estate transactions can’t exist without rampant fraud?

What would be the impact of honesty?

 

[hadit]

The fine was based on the amount that trump benefitted from his fraud He made a lot of money from it.

Who else put their sig on the contract that stated they agreed the valuation was accurate? Do you SERIOUSLY expect us to believe they would loan millions solely on the word of the applicant, especially given their fiduciary responsibility? That's not only naive, that's terminally stupid.

 

[Oldestyle]

Then they should all be prosecuted. It makes no case for letting the fat fraudulant bastard off the hook.

That's ridiculous, Tommy! Trump and all of the other real estate developers aren't defrauding banks. It's part of a process. I tell the banks what I think my assets are worth. The banks appraisers tell the bank what they think my assets are worth. A compromise is reached and a loan is made. For a third party to step in and claim that THEY were somehow injured in this contract is laughable! The bank was paid with interest on time. They're very happy with what took place and would like to do it again. So who is it that is the "victim" here?

 

[Oldestyle]

Honest people would be fine.Lots of money to be made in New York by hoonest people. kick out the grifters like trump.

You won't have to kick them out, Tommy. Real estate developers will be taking their capital and investing it in locations where they are still protected by the rule of law. The REASON that Hochul rushed to assure other investors that New York has no intention of charging anyone ELSE with what they charged Trump is that she's intelligent enough to grasp that New York NEEDS investors and this will have them rushing for the exits!

 

[hadit]

Are you claiming real estate transactions can’t exist without rampant fraud?

I'm claiming that pretending the banks are innocent victims in all this is stupid. In each of these cases, the bank agrees on the valuation of the property. Tell me honestly now, why would a bank officer with fiduciary responsibility and facing the loss of his career and potential jail time, put his name on a contract if he did not believe and agree with the valuation? Are you SERIOUSLY trying to tell us that the bank does NOT do independent appraisals to determine value BEFORE lending millions of dollars? If I'm working in a pawn shop and somebody tries to borrow $10,000 on a watch he claims is a Rolex worth $20,000, my boss would have my head if I just said, "Do you want that in hundreds or twenties?". OF COURSE, developers are supposed to give an accurate valuation of their collateral, AND the banks are supposed to either agree with that valuation or disagree and deny the loan. In every case, there's a contract stating that collateral was offered and both parties agreed on the value of that collateral. Whether a third party thinks that value is accurate or not is irrelevant at that point.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

You won't have to kick them out, Tommy. Real estate developers will be taking their capital and investing it in locations where they are still protected by the rule of law. The REASON that Hochul rushed to assure other investors that New York has no intention of charging anyone ELSE with what they charged Trump is that she's intelligent enough to grasp that New York NEEDS investors and this will have them rushing for the exits!

They wont go anywhere.
If you have proof of dishonesty you should report them.
Russia is a kleptocracy , The GOP wants the same in the US.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Legally he has a duty of candour to the lenders.They must be stupid if they take the word of trump but they should still be entitled to the truth.

/——/ The banks get the truth from their own appraisers. How thick can you be not to understand that? Or, are you just playing stupid to get attention?

 

[hadit]

Legally he has a duty of candour to the lenders.They must be stupid if they take the word of trump but they should still be entitled to the truth.

Apparently, you don't know how this works. The applicant offers collateral that he/she claims is worth a certain amount (it has to be a range because real estate does not have a fixed, objective value. It varies depending on the market and salability, etc.). He's incentivized to make that value range as high as possible. The bank looks at the collateral and comes back with their appraised value range, and they are incentivized to make that range as low as possible. Eventually, they agree on a value and sign the contract.

It boggles the mind that people on here are SERIOUSLY contending that there is nothing unusual about thinking bank officers will loan hundreds of millions of dollars SOLELY on the word of the applicant, simply boggles the mind.