What beliefs define a 21st Century American conservative?

[The Rabbi]

I got mine, screw yours.

The Democrat motto is:

"Gimme, gimme, gimme"

That's bullshit. The last two presidential elections, I've voted Democratic. And during that time, I've had 1-3 jobs, paid taxes, had health insurance (private).

I guess it's more fun to fight, or generalize. It's just like saying that all Republicans are greedy and wealthy...and I KNOW that's bullshit.

Don't be soooo silly.

What policies have Democrats pursued: Obamacare, cash for you-name-it, Dodd-Frank, etc. Every one of them involves taking from someone and giving it to someone else.
That is what he means by gimme-gimme-gimme.

 

[mskafka]

The Democrat motto is:

"Gimme, gimme, gimme"

That's bullshit. The last two presidential elections, I've voted Democratic. And during that time, I've had 1-3 jobs, paid taxes, had health insurance (private).

I guess it's more fun to fight, or generalize. It's just like saying that all Republicans are greedy and wealthy...and I KNOW that's bullshit.

Don't be soooo silly.

What policies have Democrats pursued: Obamacare, cash for you-name-it, Dodd-Frank, etc. Every one of them involves taking from someone and giving it to someone else.
That is what he means by gimme-gimme-gimme.

Okay, so he's strictly referring to our politicians? Dodd-Frank? Are you talking about the housing fiasco? Yeah, that's a sore subject.

I'm still trying to lower my blood pressure from the insider trading-Pelosi, Boehner, and Bachus....and God knows who else. That wasn't given to anyone else, to my knowledge. It was KEPT! And of course, it involved both parties. It would be tempting not to do it....but, jeez. COLD-HEARTED.

That has finished me with both houses of congress. Criminal.

 

[bripat9643]

I got mine, screw yours.

The Democrat motto is:

"Gimme, gimme, gimme"

That's bullshit. The last two presidential elections, I've voted Democratic. And during that time, I've had 1-3 jobs, paid taxes, had health insurance (private).

I guess it's more fun to fight, or generalize. It's just like saying that all Republicans are greedy and wealthy...and I KNOW that's bullshit.

Don't be soooo silly.

Every dispute in Congress is over some Dim plan to dispense more swag to their various toadies and sycophant groups.

There's nothing "silly" about it.

 

[bripat9643]

Social Security works. It is not a scam or a ponzi scheme, it simply works.

Sure it "works," if you define the term to mean, coning a bunch of suckers out of a huge chunk of their income so politicians can piss it away buying votes from near-do-wells and professional parasites.

Not everyone has a defined benefit retirement or a 401 k, not everyone earns enough to save for retirement and even those who do and did got fucked when the stock market nearly crashed and some financial institutions too big to fail failed. It is a safety net and prevents senior citizens from living in abject poverty.

Everyone who pays Social Security earns enough to pay for retirement.

 

[bripat9643]

Al Gore wanted all SS funds placed in a locked box, kept out of the hands of Congress; GWB wanted to eliminate SS and have everyone invest in private accounts. Neither prevailed, had Bush many many Americans would be in deeper financial trouble today.

There are no Social Security funds, and there is no conceivable "lock box" that Congress can't raid any time it wants to. Algore was a major league imbecile and this scheme is the proof.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Most all republicans are certain that they are correct.

Yeah......so...what's ya' point?

Most liberals think that they're correct as well. So we're basically at a stalemate with only two kings on the chessboard. Check.....check....check....check. Hopefully, someday, we'll find common ground.

No, Mssy, there are basic differences that require a one-or-the-other solution.
I'll bet you know what some of them are.

 

[bripat9643]

Do you know anyone who put money into it, who is at retirement age, that is not receiving benefits?

Anyone?

Are you sure it doesn't work?

No one is receiving the benefits they were originally promised, and those benefits will continue to be eroded. The amount we pay has gone up, up, up and the amount we receive continues to go down, down, down. If a private fund operated the same way, it would be forced into bankruptcy and all its officers would be arrested for fraud.

 

[mskafka]

I have a feeling that we generation Xr's are going to be SOL when it comes time to collect SS.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I have a feeling that we generation Xr's are going to be SOL when it comes time to collect SS.

If the GOP agenda to privatize (almost everything) succeeds I can guarantee your generation will be SOL.

 

[Wry Catcher]

How long do you think the ponzi scheme will continue to work?

Keep in mind all funds go to the general fund and our government insists we fund it less.

Al Gore wanted all SS funds placed in a locked box, kept out of the hands of Congress;

A proposal that he, and everyone else, knew would never be passed into law by Congress.

GWB wanted to eliminate SS and have everyone invest in private accounts.

This is either a lie, or abject ignorance. Bush proposed no such thing.

Be honest:
If they were guaranteed to be voted out of office for doing so, do you think that the liberals that support SS would continue to do so?

It's neither a lie or ignorance, it's hyperbole. Everyone knows Bush advocated allowing some of the employees SS tax be placed into personal accounts. That would have been the first step, IMHO.

 

[Mr.Nick]

I have a feeling that we generation Xr's are going to be SOL when it comes time to collect SS.

I was born in 1980 so I may be a baby boomer and if not I'm X, one of the first X'ers..

Totally agree tho - we wont see any Social Security...

 

[bripat9643]

What's the SS deduction? Nominally 6.25%?
If you invested 6.25% of your income from age 25 to 65, how much money would you have?
Likely a lot more than the pittance SS will pay.

Your employer kicks in another 6.25%, which is really your money. 12.5% of your income invested for 45-50 years adds up to a lot of money, even if you don't make that much.

So if you earned 30K the entire time (a very low estimate) and the interest rate you earned averaged 5%, then after 45 years you would have $625K in your account.

Only a truly pathetic character couldn't earn more than 30K his entire life. If you're married and you and your wife both work, that comes to $1.25 million.

Most people start working when they are 16, BTW, not when they are 25. At least, I started working then.

I hardly call that a "pittance."

 

[bripat9643]

It's neither a lie or ignorance, it's hyperbole. Everyone knows Bush advocated allowing some of the employees SS tax be placed into personal accounts. That would have been the first step, IMHO.

Yes, that would have been the first step, and it's a shame that turds like you demagogued it to death.

 

[bripat9643]

I have a feeling that we generation Xr's are going to be SOL when it comes time to collect SS.

If the GOP agenda to privatize (almost everything) succeeds I can guarantee your generation will be SOL.

My generation is already SOL because SS and Medicare are bankrupt. Everything the government touches is a disaster.

 

[Wry Catcher]

What do they believe in and why are they so quick to attack other self described conservatives as RINO's?

Postscript: Upon reflection this thread limits conservative to the Republican Party; I know many self defined conservatives see themselves as Independents or Libertarian, so let the question be: What do 21st Century conservaitves believe (and skip the snarky second phrase).

"Conservative" is a loose term.

I'd like to think the Bill of Rights tho....

Mind if I add something here?

Article I, section 8...the enumerated powers.

Speaking of Art. I Sec. 8 what's your take on clauses 15 & 16? What was the original intent of the relationship between "arms" and "Militias"?

 

[Mr.Nick]

What do they believe in and why are they so quick to attack other self described conservatives as RINO's?

Postscript: Upon reflection this thread limits conservative to the Republican Party; I know many self defined conservatives see themselves as Independents or Libertarian, so let the question be: What do 21st Century conservaitves believe (and skip the snarky second phrase).

"Conservative" is a loose term.

I'd like to think the Bill of Rights tho....

Mind if I add something here?

Article I, section 8...the enumerated powers.

Exactly the problem and there are numerous articles and sections that contradict your assertion...

I suppose that was the point of the classical liberals tho...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What do they believe in and why are they so quick to attack other self described conservatives as RINO's?

Postscript: Upon reflection this thread limits conservative to the Republican Party; I know many self defined conservatives see themselves as Independents or Libertarian, so let the question be: What do 21st Century conservaitves believe (and skip the snarky second phrase).

That depends on the conservative, just like when you ask 21st century progressive what they believe.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There will be no consistent set of beliefs that are "conservative" for the whole of the 21st century anymore than there was for the 20th or the 19th.

Your bias and idiocy are showing again.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Most all republicans are certain that they are correct.

Are you saying most Democrats are uncertain about whether they are right or not?

 

[PoliticalChic]

"Conservative" is a loose term.

I'd like to think the Bill of Rights tho....

Mind if I add something here?

Article I, section 8...the enumerated powers.

Speaking of Art. I Sec. 8 what's your take on clauses 15 & 16? What was the original intent of the relationship between "arms" and "Militias"?

The militia always exists, therefore it need only be called up, as opposed to clause 12, re: army.

Navy (clause 13) also existed.

a. George Mason, Father of the Bill of Rights:"I ask, Who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." (Jonathan Elliot, The Debates of the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution, [NY: Burt Franklin,1888] p.425-6)

The Constitution gave Congress the power to raise and support a national army, and to organize “the Militia.” This is because an army didn’t naturally exist, while “the Militia” only had to be organized: it always existed.

The Supreme Court, in US v. Miller, (1939) “…militia system…implied the general obligation of all adult male inhabitants to possess arms, and, with certain exceptions, to cooperate in the work of defence.” It concluded that the militia was primarily civilians.

Today, federal law defines “the militia of the United States” to include all able-bodied males from 17 to 45 and members of the National Guard up to age 64, but excluding those who have no intention of becoming citizens, and active military personnel. (US Code Title 10, sect. 311-313)


b. “…well-regulated…” Regulated does not refer to government regulations. Contemporary meaning from definitions in the Oxford English Dictionary. "Regulated" has an Obsolete definition (b) "Of troops: Properly disciplined" and then "discipline" has a definition (3b) applying to the military, "Training in the practice of arms and military evolutions; drill. Formerly, more widely: Training or skill in military affairs generally; military skill and experience; the art of war." (The pesky meaning of "Well Regulated" - Democratic Underground