Zone1 What Christianity Says

[alang1216]

Do you know any parent who would? Yet you swallow a story that is what God does...

That was how hell was described to me. That and demons with pitchforks.

 

[Meriweather]

That was how hell was described to me. That and demons with pitchforks.

Have you seen hell for yourself? Has anyone been there and returned? Or, is what is presented to us from human imaginations? Why are we so fascinated by what scares us? There is enough in real life to scare us, but we have always had this habit of diving right into scary fantasies because reality is not scary enough.

The other part might be the cruelties and tortures humans inflict on each other. There seems to be a mindset of, If humans can come up with such atrocities, imagine what God could do! The question is, But would He?

Because of Free Will, I can imagine God setting aside a place where people don't need to be around Him. It would be their own place to design and build. The question might be, after allowing them their own place to build and design as they like, should God ever step in if they build something horrific? What say you?

 

[Arlette]

Have you seen hell for yourself? Has anyone been there and returned? Or, is what is presented to us from human imaginations? Why are we so fascinated by what scares us? There is enough in real life to scare us, but we have always had this habit of diving right into scary fantasies because reality is not scary enough.

The other part might be the cruelties and tortures humans inflict on each other. There seems to be a mindset of, If humans can come up with such atrocities, imagine what God could do! The question is, But would He?

Because of Free Will, I can imagine God setting aside a place where people don't need to be around Him. It would be their own place to design and build. The question might be, after allowing them their own place to build and design as they like, should God ever step in if they build something horrific? What say you?

God didn't step in when they build gas chambers and concentration camps for his favorite people. Cause he doesn't exist

 

[Meriweather]

God didn't step in when they build gas chambers and concentration camps for his favorite people. Cause he doesn't exist

• Did God build the gas chambers? Or did humans?
• Did God build concentration camps? Or did humans?
• Did God round up Jews (and others) to put in gas chambers and concentration camps? Or did humans?

Can we humans clean up our own messes? Then why shouldn't we?

Our story begins with the human desire to know both good and evil. Kind of ironic that with God's consent to this, we demand He clean up our messes or claim He doesn't exist. We could, of course, try doing things His way. One good way of proving His existence, is it not?

 

[Arlette]

• Did God build the gas chambers? Or did humans?
• Did God build concentration camps? Or did humans?
• Did God round up Jews (and others) to put in gas chambers and concentration camps? Or did humans?

Can we humans clean up our own messes? Then why shouldn't we?

Our story begins with the human desire to know both good and evil. Kind of ironic that with God's consent to this, we demand He clean up our messes or claim He doesn't exist. We could, of course, try doing things His way. One good way of proving His existence, is it not?

Get to it. What's stopping you?

 

[Meriweather]

Get to it. What's stopping you?

In my own life, I have been doing things His way, and it is working beautifully. How about you?

 

[Arlette]

In my own life, I have been doing things His way, and it is working beautifully. How about you?

I'm good

 

[alang1216]

Have you seen hell for yourself? Has anyone been there and returned? Or, is what is presented to us from human imaginations? Why are we so fascinated by what scares us? There is enough in real life to scare us, but we have always had this habit of diving right into scary fantasies because reality is not scary enough.

Can you pick and choose which scripture you believe?

Hell, in Christian theology, is the ultimate destination of unrepentant sinners and the abode of the devil and his demonic followers. It is described as a place of eternal punishment, characterized by torment, darkness, separation from God, and destruction. The concept of hell can be traced back to the Old Testament, but it is more explicitly described in the New Testament.​

​

Jesus Himself referred to hell on multiple occasions. In Matthew 10:28, He warned about the One who can destroy both body and soul in hell, highlighting the eternal nature of the punishment. In Mark 9:43, Jesus spoke of hell as a place "where the fire never goes out," implying unending torment. Furthermore, in Matthew 25:41, Jesus mentioned hell as a place "prepared for the devil and his angels," emphasizing its purpose as a place of punishment for the forces of evil.​

​

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) is a vivid account that illustrates the reality of hell as a place of torment and separation. The rich man, in Hades, suffers from thirst and anguish while being separated from Abraham and Lazarus by a great chasm (Luke 16:26).​

​

The Apostle Paul, in his letters, also mentioned hell as a place of eternal destruction. In 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Paul wrote that those who disobey the gospel "will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord." This verse emphasizes the element of separation from God's presence as a crucial aspect of the punishment.​

​

The Book of Revelation provides a more detailed description of the ultimate fate of the devil and his followers. Revelation 20:10 reveals that "the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur," where he will be tormented forever. Revelation 20:14-15 further explains that death, Hades, and those whose names are not written in the Book of Life will also be cast into the lake of fire, the second death.​

 

[Arlette]

Can you pick and choose which scripture you believe?

Hell, in Christian theology, is the ultimate destination of unrepentant sinners and the abode of the devil and his demonic followers. It is described as a place of eternal punishment, characterized by torment, darkness, separation from God, and destruction. The concept of hell can be traced back to the Old Testament, but it is more explicitly described in the New Testament.​

​

Jesus Himself referred to hell on multiple occasions. In Matthew 10:28, He warned about the One who can destroy both body and soul in hell, highlighting the eternal nature of the punishment. In Mark 9:43, Jesus spoke of hell as a place "where the fire never goes out," implying unending torment. Furthermore, in Matthew 25:41, Jesus mentioned hell as a place "prepared for the devil and his angels," emphasizing its purpose as a place of punishment for the forces of evil.​

​

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) is a vivid account that illustrates the reality of hell as a place of torment and separation. The rich man, in Hades, suffers from thirst and anguish while being separated from Abraham and Lazarus by a great chasm (Luke 16:26).​

​

The Apostle Paul, in his letters, also mentioned hell as a place of eternal destruction. In 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Paul wrote that those who disobey the gospel "will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord." This verse emphasizes the element of separation from God's presence as a crucial aspect of the punishment.​

​

The Book of Revelation provides a more detailed description of the ultimate fate of the devil and his followers. Revelation 20:10 reveals that "the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur," where he will be tormented forever. Revelation 20:14-15 further explains that death, Hades, and those whose names are not written in the Book of Life will also be cast into the lake of fire, the second death.​

Just curious - do the threats of hell still work in the 21st century? I mean on anybody not nine years old

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

First of all, Christianity is way more strict than Islam or any other religion. The reason why it doesn't seem that way is because today many Christians don't practice the religion the way it is presented in the bible. But if you were to focus on another period of time in Christian history, say for example Medieval times, then Christianity looks a lot like Islam in practice with women separated from men, not allowed to preach (as Saint Paul says in the bible), not allowed to accentuate their appearance with jewelry, and strongly admonished to cover their hair. Sound familiar?
The West has moved on since then. Islam, for the most part, at least not in less Western leaning nations, has not.
But why is Christianity more strict than other religions? The short answer is the issue of "sin." In Christianity, the actual standard for goodness and acceptance into heaven is so high that basically no one can get to heaven on their own. It doesn't matter how much you pray or fast or sacrifice or whatever. Sin is a condition that is beyond anything possible for humans to eradicate on their own. Which in a way makes sense given that the way it entered the world was through a supernatural encounter with an evil force, logically it leaves the world through an equally supernatural encounter with a good force.
There is nothing humans can do. And if you take an honest look at human history the past five thousand or so years that should be obvious. No matter how fervently any certain people or religion, including Christianity itself, has tried to change the world for the better through force or even through more constructive and peaceful means, disaster, war, and strife has often resulted. The human condition of sin itself is the culprit, not human effort. The problem runs way deeper than we realize. Like software, the human spirit cannot be seen, but it is human software itself that is corrupted and in need of a reboot, not patches here or there and certainly not more of the same.
Sin is a part of everyday life. Jesus Himself said just looking at a woman with lust in your heart is sin. Also, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter heaven. And...in the book of 1st John, verses 3 and 4, just hating your brother is equal to murder and you cannot see God if you will not see your brother. These are just a few high standards that no one can achieve, but in case anyone thinks they can, perhaps the highest standard of all is being born without sin. It means no one is good. Psalm 14:3 "no one does good. No not one." And Romans 3:23 "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
In the entire history of humankind, only three humans have known what it is like to be without sin. The first two were Adam and Eve, who very briefly were without sin, before they fell. Everyone but one born from then on was born in sin inherited from Adam and Eve, like a virus in a computer program that spread from one generation to the next all the way down.
The only way to interrupt that algorithm, that error in programming that originated with Adam and Eve, was to break that connection altogether. And the only way to do that was for a person to be born supernaturally with no mortal father, thereby no mortal connection to Adam and Eve.
Done by Jesus Christ, born of a virgin, God being His father, not man, and born and lived without sin. The new Adam, and a second chance for mankind. Then sacrificed for mankind so that every person can join Him in a new program, a new version of humankind, and one which was the original intention.
All it takes is belief in Him. Then all the prayers and fasting and living a moral life now matters.

It all depends the only country pretty much that is hard-core conservative is Iran. The golf countries are very liberal now. If you look at Iraq in the 1980s, it was very liberal Christians and women were in positions of power.

Iran is a hell hole many would say it doesn’t practice proper Islam. Also look at the thread in my signature. It is proof that the Christians were very tolerant, loving and peaceful during the middle ages. I show historians and scholars to back up my viewpoints.

It is incorrect to claim that Christianity was intolerant during the middle ages.

 

[Meriweather]

In Mark 9:43, Jesus spoke of hell as a place "where the fire never goes out," implying unending torment.

In this verse Jesus is speaking of Kingdom living (in the present) and what happens if sin is chosen instead. Kingdom living is obeying God here on earth as it is done in heaven.

Jesus then speaks of Gehenna. Gehenna was the Jerusalem city dump in the Valley of Hinnom. The Valley was considered so unclean (due to the pagan practice of sacrificing children) the Jews saw it fit for nothing but the city dump. Here the fire burned and never went out; worms feasted on garbage and never died.

Jesus often likened the affects of sin on us to life in the city dump (Gehenna). Living a life of wrongdoing is like living in fire (as our emotions are always burning) and the worm of continuing to do wrong never dies. Using hyperbole, Jesus suggests that it is better to do without what causes/makes one to sin than to live in a filthy, unclean place.

In many places, like Mark's verse, Jesus is not speaking of an eternal afterlife, but the present life being lived. Obeying God is compared to living life in a Kingdom; disobeying God is compared to living life in the city dump which is in an unclean valley where children were sacrificed.

 

[Meriweather]

He warned about the One who can destroy both body and soul in hell,

Again, the term "Gehenna" is used. In Jesus time one's soul could warrant a Gehenna-like existence or a Garden of Eden like existence, what today is probably synonymous with heaven and hell.

Recall that evil cannot exist in holiness. If one chooses to create with in himself an evil soul, he should well be in fear of the one whose pure holiness destroys an evil soul. This relates better to the Catholic teaching that hell is separation from God. If an evil soul is separated from God, then it cannot be destroyed by the Holiness of God. In Biblical times another picture of an evil soul going down-down-down... while a good soul ascends up-up-up. The two are separated.

Here is the alternate idea that you seem to have. You seem to see it as God choosing a soul's fate, when it is anything but. The soul chooses its own fate.

 

[Meriweather]

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) is a vivid account that illustrates the reality of hell as a place of torment and separation. The rich man, in Hades, suffers from thirst and anguish while being separated from Abraham and Lazarus by a great chasm (Luke 16:26).

A question that arises at times is, was the rich man in hell, or being purified in purgatory?

 

[Meriweather]

The Apostle Paul, in his letters, also mentioned hell as a place of eternal destruction. In 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Paul wrote that those who disobey the gospel "will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord." This verse emphasizes the element of separation from God's presence as a crucial aspect of the punishment.

Should evil that continues to live continue to be punished by separation from what is good and holy? What say you? If evil is still evil, should it be allowed into a good/holy place? Think about it. Say that you are living a good life in a good home. Would you welcome an evil person (who had no intention of changing) who had been living in an evil place into your life and your home? Further, if you say no, should I blame you for not welcoming the evil-doer into your life and home because--after all--a good person should be welcoming to all?

 

[alang1216]

Just curious - do the threats of hell still work in the 21st century? I mean on anybody not nine years old

They don't work on me but I suspect others consider the threat real. Of course I'd bet everyone of those folk are 100% convinced they are one of the few going to heaven.

 

[alang1216]

In this verse Jesus is speaking of Kingdom living (in the present) and what happens if sin is chosen instead. Kingdom living is obeying God here on earth as it is done in heaven.

Jesus then speaks of Gehenna. Gehenna was the Jerusalem city dump in the Valley of Hinnom. The Valley was considered so unclean (due to the pagan practice of sacrificing children) the Jews saw it fit for nothing but the city dump. Here the fire burned and never went out; worms feasted on garbage and never died.

Jesus often likened the affects of sin on us to life in the city dump (Gehenna). Living a life of wrongdoing is like living in fire (as our emotions are always burning) and the worm of continuing to do wrong never dies. Using hyperbole, Jesus suggests that it is better to do without what causes/makes one to sin than to live in a filthy, unclean place.

In many places, like Mark's verse, Jesus is not speaking of an eternal afterlife, but the present life being lived. Obeying God is compared to living life in a Kingdom; disobeying God is compared to living life in the city dump which is in an unclean valley where children were sacrificed.

I think you want it to mean that but what is says is very different: "hell, where the fire never goes out"

 

[alang1216]

Again, the term "Gehenna" is used. In Jesus time one's soul could warrant a Gehenna-like existence or a Garden of Eden like existence, what today is probably synonymous with heaven and hell.

Recall that evil cannot exist in holiness. If one chooses to create with in himself an evil soul, he should well be in fear of the one whose pure holiness destroys an evil soul. This relates better to the Catholic teaching that hell is separation from God. If an evil soul is separated from God, then it cannot be destroyed by the Holiness of God. In Biblical times another picture of an evil soul going down-down-down... while a good soul ascends up-up-up. The two are separated.

Have you ever met anyone who is purely evil or purely good? I haven't, we are all a unique mix of both.

Here is the alternate idea that you seem to have. You seem to see it as God choosing a soul's fate, when it is anything but. The soul chooses its own fate.

If God makes vague rules and then judges me by them, He is choosing my fate.

 

[alang1216]

A question that arises at times is, was the rich man in hell, or being purified in purgatory?

I thought purgatory is a Catholic invention and not found in any scripture so I have no idea.

 

[alang1216]

Should evil that continues to live continue to be punished by separation from what is good and holy? What say you? If evil is still evil, should it be allowed into a good/holy place? Think about it. Say that you are living a good life in a good home. Would you welcome an evil person (who had no intention of changing) who had been living in an evil place into your life and your home? Further, if you say no, should I blame you for not welcoming the evil-doer into your life and home because--after all--a good person should be welcoming to all?

Are people evil is they don't obey the gospels? Atheists don't, Jews don't, Muslims don't, etc. You are welcome to write you own scripture but that change the words of Paul.

 

[Arlette]

They don't work on me but I suspect others consider the threat real. Of course I'd bet everyone of those folk are 100% convinced they are one of the few going to heaven.

Christians have this ability too see themselves as special. Of course you are very special if you take for example the virgin birth or talking snakes seriously. It's just this conviction that all of creation happened with my dumb ass in mind that amazes me to no end. Doesn't God hate pride?