What creates jobs?

[sparky]

This last year i've been up to my eyeballs in HB-whatever Mexican labor, if these folks were any slower, they'd be in a coma

This is right next to the poor farm , where a number of down & out men have asked me who's hiring

Meanwhile, management trots around the old 'Americans don't want to work' canard (said folks haven't assumed so much as a blister btw)

it's not only policy, it's the fact that people are buying into this mentality behind it that's killing us

~S~

 

[code1211]

People need jobs. If the private sector won't provide it, then government must step in and do it for them. Once people are back to work, they get paychecks. When they get paychecks, they spend money. 70% of our economy is from consumer spending and small businesses.

Corporations are enjoying record profits and are sitting on trillions of dollars that are not being invested back into the economy because there is no demand.

Government embodies Force -- ergo, you advocate Force, to take money (from those who happen to have, e.g. American businesses), i.e. "mugging money".

non-violent assertion of "needing money" is begging; non-violent long-term economic "remedy" for unemployment is "entrepreneurial spirit" (cp. if more Americans had been more entrepreneurial before now; then more Americans would be employed now)

American businesses may yield more money to "mugging", than "begging"; "incentives matter"

Demand fixes everything. Put money back in peoples pockets and they spend it. So we shouldn't have sent all those jobs overseas.

And 10 million plus illegal immigrants are now doing jobs Americans were doing. Its an illegal employer problem. The border has two signs. A small one that says stay out and a big one that says HELP WANTED.

And today those manufacturing jobs that are coming back home are coming back at $10 hr. That's not going to cut it. But you guys cried that they were making too much money at $35 hr. Well $10 hr isnt cutting it. No wonder the economy is only slowly improving.

Back when people were making good money, they were spending.

With the cost of healthcare and gas and everything else going up, we Americans are basically making less than we were 30 years ago. But corporate profits and ceo pay has never been higher. It isn't a coincidence that in those 30 years, the rich have all but destroyed unions. They only account for 12% of our workforce when they use to be 35%. No conincidence that our wages haven't gone up because unions are what bring wages up. Without them, all the profits go to the top. We need more not less unions. Thank God the GOP have attacked police, nurses, firefighters and teachers unions because now they know it wasn't just the fat lazy auto union worker that they thought makes too much. They think we all make too much.

Wow! you've uncovered the secret! Pay people more.

How many people are YOU going to hire today at $35.00/hour?

Don't have the cash to make the payroll? That don't matter. Mortgage your house. Sell the car. Put your kids to work on a paper route or mowing lawns. If you really want to improve the economy, you'll put money in people's pockets.

How many people are YOU going to hire today at $35.00/hour?

 

[code1211]

we shouldn't have sent all those jobs overseas.

And 10 million plus illegal immigrants are now doing jobs Americans were doing.

Domestic labor has demanded "astronomical wages"; Domestic business has fled for Foreign labor, who is "more down-to-earth" in their demands (e.g. if you don't want immigrants doing your job, do it better, for less)

First off, there is no such thing as an "illegal person". Second, how many "un-documented workers" are hedge fund managers?

Here's something to think about, even though someone is in the country illegally and working at a minimum wage job, at least they are contributing to our economy by paying taxes and spending the cash they earn in this country. Which is more than I can say about all these war-mongers who got no problem spending $1 trillion US tax dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan, where there is absolutely NO BENEFIT for average American workers.

You do realize, don't you, that the Big 0 left Iraq following the Bush SOFA plan?

You must also realize that the Big 0 increased the commitment in Afghanistan?

 

[code1211]

People who own businesses own them because they enjoy running things.

They're not just running their own businesses, they're running our government as well, to the detriment of American citizens.

When Liberals decide that the critical decisions of business need to be made by the government, business owners chafe.

WTF are you talking about? Your use of the term "Liberals", is as if we all were one entity, with one mind set and spoke in one collective voice. And if you believe that, your either fucking nuts, or are just to afraid to deal with reality. And that reality is that we have over 29,000 lobbiests in Washington setting the government agenda and writing our laws. Big business, big government and the mainstream media have all sync'd into this weird entity that has resulted in us no longer having a representative government.

If there is a good reason to invest, investments will occur. If there is a good reason to not invest, not investing will be the rule of the day.

By the activity of the business community, we know that they have almost universally come to the same conclusion and that is that this is not the time to invest. The result is the worst economy since the Great Depression and the slowest recovery since the Great Depression.

Ain't it funny that the same policies were in force then as now?

If they didn't invest, then how is it possible for them to be enjoying record profits?

1. I'm talking about the small business guys and the guys who own companies. These folks, whether they own a car dealership like the ones that Obama shut down or a plumbing outfit enjoy running the show. Why else would they put up with the headaches of payroll and people and government and license and regulation?

2. Liberals in general want a strong central government with the tax dollars flowing to and from Washington DC. Conservatives in general want a diffused government with the tax dollars staying closer to home. You 29,000 lobbyists would go away if the money wasn't there. Liberals are not confined to the Democrat party. Being a republican does not automatically qualify a Big Government, Big Spender as a Conservative. They both are as they do.

3. If the excess revenue over expense flows as it did in the past, but the capital investment slows or stops, then there is more profit. So, if the business owner does not buy the 10% of his fleet or expand the building or upgrade to this year's model of floor machinery in the machine shop, he is not investing, not borrowing and not not incurring the expense.

His profits rise as his investment goes down.

This pretty basic stuff.

 

[code1211]

When the spending comes from the collected tax dollar, that reduces the freedom of the taxed individual to choose what that dollar will buy. It also increases the cost of the taxed commodity or product...

When the spending comes from the private sector dollar, it produces tax revenue while it creates the created thing.

Taxes "burden" and "distort" economies; ergo, Tax Dollars are spent, only after "doing damage" to the economy, and "muddling market signals", when "majorities mug minorities" (supposedly sacro-sanct, since the 'Civil Rights Movement' in American).

economies dominated by "Redistribution of wealth" are predicted to reflect (and flow from) the psychology, of "muggers" ("take it"), over "laborers" ("make it"); offense-defense theory of war predicts when the former (or the latter) Dominate (or not):

Offense-defense theory argues that the relative ease of offense ["vote for a populist Law", de facto recruiting Government Force, i.e. Military-Police, as a "national posse of bandits"] and defense [self-defense] varies in international politics. When the offense has the advantage ["majority Rule"], military conquest becomes easier and war is more likely ["Progressive Taxes"]; the opposite is true when the defense has the advantage [? [honor culture, compelling odds-evening mono-et-mono ?]]. The balance between offense and defense depends on geography, technology, and other factors.

Re-distribution of wealth is occuring, but it's going UP, not DOWN.

Re-distribution of wealth is done by the government. It takes from one group and literally "re-distributes" it.

What you are calling re-distribution is commerce. If you want to have the wealth be re-distributed to you under your own definition, then hock everything you own, mortgage your property to the hilt and commit to working 20 hours every day for the next ten years to start a business.

Be prepared to pay everyone else before yourself, eating macaroni and cheese as the entree' every night and sometimes working all day, all night and all day the next day, too.

Sound a little tough to do? Then quit you bitchen and get a job and figure out how to get a bigger pay check from the guy who already did this.

 

[sparky]

hmmm. so if the Gub'Mit buys us jobs, is it wealth redistribution?
Economy fights headwinds, politics for jobs gain - Outside the Box - MarketWatch

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Despite high oil prices, the euro area crises, and obstruction at every turn from conservatives in Congress, the private sector continued its 25-month job growth streak in March thanks to the Recovery Act and other proactive policies. Last month the U.S. economy added 120,000 jobs and the unemployment rate dropped to 8.2%.

 

[code1211]

hmmm. so if the Gub'Mit buys us jobs, is it wealth redistribution?
Economy fights headwinds, politics for jobs gain - Outside the Box - MarketWatch

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Despite high oil prices, the euro area crises, and obstruction at every turn from conservatives in Congress, the private sector continued its 25-month job growth streak in March thanks to the Recovery Act and other proactive policies. Last month the U.S. economy added 120,000 jobs and the unemployment rate dropped to 8.2%.

Yeah, things are great!

In March 2008, 145,969,000 Americans were employed.

In March 2012, 142,043,000 Americans were employed.

That is a real drop of 3,926,000 in the last 4 years.

Of course, in 2008, we were suffering through the "worst economy since the Great Depression". Only God know what the economy of today is since that one was so bad.

Market Watch really has to word smith the news to make it sound like things are rosy, don't they?


http://www.bls.gov/news.release/archives/empsit_04042008.pdf
Employment Situation Summary Table A. Household data, seasonally adjusted

 

[Widdekind]

even though someone is in the country illegally and working at a minimum wage job, at least they are contributing to our economy by paying taxes and spending the cash they earn in this country

Labor generates wealth; by Laboring for the U.S. economy, "illegal immigrants" contribute to the same; which is why they are "invited"; if Domestic workers want to out-compete Foreign workers, for Domestic jobs, then they should contribute more economically, i.e. work more for less ("that is how you say you want the job"; "ask not what the economy can do for you, ask what you can do for the economy").

 

[itfitzme]

even though someone is in the country illegally and working at a minimum wage job, at least they are contributing to our economy by paying taxes and spending the cash they earn in this country

Labor generates wealth; by Laboring for the U.S. economy, "illegal immigrants" contribute to the same; which is why they are "invited"; if Domestic workers want to out-compete Foreign workers, for Domestic jobs, then they should contribute more economically, i.e. work more for less ("that is how you say you want the job"; "ask not what the economy can do for you, ask what you can do for the economy").

You have never actually done this, so you don't actually speak from experience.

Let's see how this actually would work. The unemployment rate is 8%. There are people working at the local Walmart for minimum wage. You don't have a job, so you go to the manager and say, "Hey, I'll work for $8.00 an hour." And he would say what? He'd tell you no. Even if they were making $12.00 an hour, he'd still tell you know. He'd tell you to go online and apply.

Okay, lets try another one. There is this guy that works as a gardener, an immigrant that has been here for three years. You find out he charges $12.00 an hour. You follow him around, to see who his customers are. You speak with them and say, hey, I'll do it for $10.00 an hour. And what do you suppose they will tell you? What they would tell you is, "oh thanks, but we are happy with him."

Supposing some did say, "Oh, sure" How much work do you suppose you will manage to get, as a percentage of his business?

How long do you suppose that will stretch before your unemployment runs out in the dead of the recession when every employed person is stretching their dollar just to be prepared for the unfortunate event that they should lose their job.

Oh, and here is the kicker. There is always potential demand at any price. Technically, if your willing to work for free, there is tons of work. The problem is, when receipts fall below costs. You can always offer to work for $5 an hour under the table if you can manage to find it, working 60-80 hours a week but the cost of food and housing is prohibitive in most areas. And as it takes time to build up such a business. Assuming you could manage to build enough business, half of that time ends up being spent just getting from one appointment to another.

Consider tutoring. It pays $18 an hour. Seems like good money, except it is a good half hour travel for a one hour session. Then comes the cost of fuel. By the time your done, your down to $10 an hour and, during the recession, there are a shit load of people sharing all the tutoring jobs and not enough work. The owner of the company isn't going to give you more if you offer to work for less. He doesn't care. It works for him at what he has set his rate at.

You are just speaking, "theoretically', having never actually done this, have you? If you have, a lot of people would sure appreciate your sharing your experience.

 

[Widdekind]

"physical exercise", employed as productive Labor (i.e., in conjunction with appropriate other factors of production, e.g. "machines"), generates wealth; Labor which "does more, for less" will (tend to) out-compete less efficient Labor.

 

[inALIENable]

LOL, few months ago I ran a help wanted ad all over the place looking for a CNC laser operator. Six weeks passed before someone applied. He was the only applicant. I had to offer quite a bit to hire him away from a competitor. Why is it the only people that actually want a job are already employed elsewhere? How come nobody unemployed ever applies? I'm not the only one that has noticed. To find good help, you have to hire them away from someone else lately. What's up with that?

 

[Immanuel]

LOL, few months ago I ran a help wanted ad all over the place looking for a CNC laser operator. Six weeks passed before someone applied. He was the only applicant. I had to offer quite a bit to hire him away from a competitor. Why is it the only people that actually want a job are already employed elsewhere? How come nobody unemployed ever applies? I'm not the only one that has noticed. To find good help, you have to hire them away from someone else lately. What's up with that?

Hell, I would have applied... Do you pay well? WTF is a CNC laser operator anyway?

Immie

 

[inALIENable]

LOL, few months ago I ran a help wanted ad all over the place looking for a CNC laser operator. Six weeks passed before someone applied. He was the only applicant. I had to offer quite a bit to hire him away from a competitor. Why is it the only people that actually want a job are already employed elsewhere? How come nobody unemployed ever applies? I'm not the only one that has noticed. To find good help, you have to hire them away from someone else lately. What's up with that?

Hell, I would have applied... Do you pay well? WTF is a CNC laser operator anyway?

Immie

LOL, THAT right there is what's wrong with so many in America now.

When I was 14, I already had my ham/amateur radio license and was the neighborhood television repair kid everyone called. At 16 I was working part time as a mainframe computer programmer. I taught myself this shit on my own and more. I took the self initiative to make myself valuable and sought after. People call ME wondering if I would work for them,not the other way around. No thanks, ha, I'm too busy.

I don't know what's wrong with some of you out there and what your problem is unless you're a totally worthless useless human being.

Damn, I'm out of smokes again. How come I got to get in the car and drive 2 miles to a convenience store to get them, how come some unemployed dude isn't going up and down my street pushing a cart full of things I might need today? Hum? Hey, worthless ones, I'll buy you a hotdog and drink for lunch if you'll fetch me a pack of smokes. Oh, and get me a few Red Bulls too. Thanks, you can keep the change. Say, can you clean up dog poop? I'll buy you supper if you can. ?

 

[Immanuel]

LOL, few months ago I ran a help wanted ad all over the place looking for a CNC laser operator. Six weeks passed before someone applied. He was the only applicant. I had to offer quite a bit to hire him away from a competitor. Why is it the only people that actually want a job are already employed elsewhere? How come nobody unemployed ever applies? I'm not the only one that has noticed. To find good help, you have to hire them away from someone else lately. What's up with that?

Hell, I would have applied... Do you pay well? WTF is a CNC laser operator anyway?

Immie

LOL, THAT right there is what's wrong with so many in America now.

When I was 14, I already had my ham/amateur radio license and was the neighborhood television repair kid everyone called. At 16 I was working part time as a mainframe computer programmer. I taught myself this shit on my own and more. I took the self initiative to make myself valuable and sought after. People call ME wondering if I would work for them,not the other way around. No thanks, ha, I'm too busy.

I don't know what's wrong with some of you out there and what your problem is unless you're a totally worthless useless human being.

Damn, I'm out of smokes again. How come I got to get in the car and drive 2 miles to a convenience store to get them, how come some unemployed dude isn't going up and down my street pushing a cart full of things I might need today? Hum? Hey, worthless ones, I'll buy you a hotdog and drink for lunch if you'll fetch me a pack of smokes. Oh, and get me a few Red Bulls too. Thanks, you can keep the change. Say, can you clean up dog poop? I'll buy you supper if you can. ?

After reading that shit, I think you are what is wrong with America.

So what, I don't know what a CNC laser is? Big deal. I'm willing to learn.

I've been in accounting all my life. I'm definitely not mechanically inclined, but like I said, I'm willing to learn.

And clean up your own dog shit! More than likely, you walk your dog down the street and let it shit on someone else's lawn anyway.

Immie

 

[inALIENable]

So what, I don't know what a CNC laser is? Big deal. I'm willing to learn.

Well then why haven't you? What books on the subject have you read and understand? What relevant education and job experience do you have? Is that what you really want to do for a living, and if so why don't you already know what that field is then?

I love learning new challenging things. My entire life I've been earning a living doing exactly what I love doing, learning new things and taking advantage of it before everyone else does. I turn my hobbies into a source of income (usually by accident).

Is accounting or operating a laser cutting machine your favorite things to do with your life? Is that what you really want? Never pursue that which will not make you happy, that always leads to discontent and doom, ha.

Funny, nothing wrong with me I think, in fact I wish there were more of me, I really could use some good qualified engineering help with my current endeavor. Diploma not required, you just need to already know this stuff, I'm not a school nor a teacher, no time or desire for that.

 

[inALIENable]

Ah I give up, LOL. I could use some extra weed money this year. I think I'll go for a relaxing enjoyable hike in the woods this afternoon, it's beautiful outside today. Surely I'll be able to snap a few excellent photos I can post to a stock photo site that will add another few hundred dollars to this years take. Damn I love making money doing what I absolutely love to do. That's how it works in my world. Oh, and bless them paparazzi photographers willing to pay me crazy amounts of money building them aerial surveillance drones. And bless them for crashing them now and then too, LOL.

Later, beautiful day! Wonderful world of opportunities we live in, isn't it.

 

[Immanuel]

So what, I don't know what a CNC laser is? Big deal. I'm willing to learn.

Well then why haven't you? What books on the subject have you read and understand? What relevant education and job experience do you have? Is that what you really want to do for a living, and if so why don't you already know what that field is then?

I love learning new challenging things. My entire life I've been earning a living doing exactly what I love doing, learning new things and taking advantage of it before everyone else does. I turn my hobbies into a source of income (usually by accident).

Is accounting or operating a laser cutting machine your favorite things to do with your life? Is that what you really want? Never pursue that which will not make you happy, that always leads to discontent and doom, ha.

Funny, nothing wrong with me I think, in fact I wish there were more of me, I really could use some good qualified engineering help with my current endeavor. Diploma not required, you just need to already know this stuff, I'm not a school nor a teacher, no time or desire for that.

Why haven't I? Not interested in it most likely. I have never even heard of CNC laser before.

I, too, love to learn new things. As for turning my hobbies into a source of income. I have never been the entreprenuer. Once I developed an entire GL accounting system using the DBase III+ programming language in my spare time as a hobby. Had a blast doing it. I was going to turn it into the next "Peachtree" accounting system. Then again, it was done in my spare time and took a long time to do it. Well, since I still had A/P, A/R, Fixed Assets, payroll etc. etc. etc. I decided there was no competing with the developers of Peachtree and moved on. It was fun doing though!

Next question, is accounting or laser cutting the favorite thing I would like to do with my life? Hell no! I want to play professional football. I want to play quarterback. Had a hell of an arm when I was a "kid" too. Um, when was the last time you heard of a 50 year old rookie, especially one that can barely walk with a dead arm that can't throw more than 15 yards anymore?

There are actually several things I would like to do. I would like to preach, but my church requires one to be an ordained minister who attended seminary. I' could probably go to seminary. On the other hand, I suck at public speaking. The "just imagine them in their underwear" thing never worked for me.

Law would be more interesting than accounting as well, but, there are already more lawyers than are needed in this country.

Enjoy your stroll.

Immie

 

[Dragon]

LOL, few months ago I ran a help wanted ad all over the place looking for a CNC laser operator. Six weeks passed before someone applied. He was the only applicant. I had to offer quite a bit to hire him away from a competitor. Why is it the only people that actually want a job are already employed elsewhere? How come nobody unemployed ever applies? I'm not the only one that has noticed. To find good help, you have to hire them away from someone else lately. What's up with that?

What's up with that? Among other things, the fallacy of faulty generalization:

Faulty generalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ThinkCritically]

I believe not-for-profits, NGOs, local, state, and federal governments along with the rest of the private sector and entrepreneurs are who create jobs.

As for what creates jobs. Thats simple. Fulfilling a demand for some product or service is what creates jobs.

 

[code1211]

I believe not-for-profits, NGOs, local, state, and federal governments along with the rest of the private sector and entrepreneurs are who create jobs.

As for what creates jobs. Thats simple. Fulfilling a demand for some product or service is what creates jobs.

That's one way. The better way is creating the demand for a product that you are making. Like a flat screen TV or a computer or a great movie.

The boom of the 90's was created by the demand for a product that nobody wanted in the 80's. If you were trying to fill the demand of the 80's in order to build your fortune in the 90's, you'd have cornered the market on disco music recorded on cassette tapes.