What crime did Eric Garner commit, that made the NYPD go after him?

[SwimExpert]

A LEO can't just walk up to you and say "I suspect you are a criminal" and arrest you.

And yet it happens.

again, they can't arrest you, they can detain you, but they can't just arrest you.

And yet it happens.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Eric Garner was selling cigarettes.

And not even packs of them. Individual cigarettes. ("Loosies")

WTF? Why was he even doing that? And why was it a crime?

Answer: Because New York City had hugely increased TAXES on cigarettes. So much that the city had nearly tripled the price on them.

In a low-tax state like North Carolina, cigarettes can be bought for $5 a pack.

In New York City, the same cigarettes are anywhere from $11 to $15 a pack.

Garner's "crime"? He hadn't paid those extra taxes.

Unsurprisingly, NYC's crushing taxes created a huge black market. People like Eric Garner regularly drive down to North Carolina, load up on $5/pack cigarettes, come back to NYC, and sell them for "only" $8 or $9.

NYC's government had driven prices so artificially high, that Eric Garner even sold individual cigarettes. Because many people couldn't afford even a single, whole pack. Or he did, until NYC's police killed him.

Used to be, that government only made laws to protect people's rights. That was their whole job.

But more recently, big-government liberals have decided that government's job was to save people from their own mistakes, whether they were violating anybody else's rights or not. Places like New York City have gone so far off the rails, they even made laws against selling soft drinks that were "too large".

And they have a law that you are forbidden to sell a pack of cigarettes for under $10.50.

NYC Mayor DiBlasio issued an edict not long ago, telling NYPD cops to crack down on those terrifying hardened criminals who were selling individual cigarettes. The memo didn't mention exactly how those sellers were violating people's rights, or which rights were being violated. But the local government was missing out on some tax revenue (the taxes that tripled the price of cigarettes). And that could not be tolerated.

Garner had been busted for doing this, a number of times before. Of course, if the govt hadn't hiked taxes to such ridiculous levels, he probably would have never been busted for it at all. Nobody would have bothered to buy North Carolina cigarettes from him, so he never would have gone into business selling them in the first place.

An Obama official once remarked, "If you want to make an omelet, you have to crack a few eggs." The "eggs" that got "cracked" in that case were U.S. Border Patrol agents who were killed by Mexican drug cartels with gun illegally sold to them by the Obama administration.

Looks like another egg got cracked, this time in response to New York City government raising taxes on cigarettes, creating a whole new group of criminals who tried to evade those taxes. This "egg" was named Eric Garner.

Oops. Oh, well.

The NYC govt wanted to make an omelet, protecting people from their own faults (smoking cigarettes). Hope they enjoy it.

The police didn't kill Garner.

 

[NYcarbineer]

IF GARNER DIDN'T RESIST ARREST, HE WOULD BE ALIVE.

Yep.

I would have been fine if the GJ went the other way, the cop went too far.

But it would not have happened had Garner not resisted arrest. Same as Brown.

.

Yes, the cops went too far. Why don't you just stop there instead of trying to trash the victim?

You're implying that all Americans should treat the police as if the police are above the law in every regard

So you equate pointing out the obvious facts that (a) he resisted arrest and (b) none of what happened afterward would have happened had he not, with him being the victim.

And you get cranky when others point out that you're soft on criminals.

I see both sides of this story, you're going through life with only one eye open.

.

Why bother to train the police then in non-lethal restraint methods? If you've given up your right to life the moment you argue with a police officer,

why waste the money training the police?

I asked you a question, answer it or you agree the cops didn't use unethical tactics.

The cops killed a man by using a chokehold they'd been told not to use.

 

[Carib Gyal]

It's like playing Whack-A-Mole. He's not a serious poster.

Very angry, too.

.

Crybaby. Any time I can get a poster to abandon the subject and attack me personally I know I've won the argument.

Abner Louima was abused by the police after his arrest. It was not HIS fault.

Nor was it Eric Garner's FAULT that the police killed him.

Okay.

Garner was just standing there, minding his own business, and was attacked by those evil cops.

He was executed for no reason.

Damn evil cops.

"Feel" better now?

.

Why is it that black guys have to be perfect citizens before you MIGHT consider them a victim?

Why do I want to be a good citizen? Because it's better for the community.

This carbineer guy is a clown. The local police, the federal investigators led by super black cop Eric Holder, and a NY grand jury have investigated all of this. They came to the conclusion that there was no basis to file charges. And now, on an internet message board, he's going to ask the tough questions and get to the bottom of this.

Yeah well the jury found OJ innocent too.

The investigators found evidence to file charges in that case. You disagree with that decision, too?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Eric Garner was selling cigarettes.

And not even packs of them. Individual cigarettes. ("Loosies")

WTF? Why was he even doing that? And why was it a crime?

Answer: Because New York City had hugely increased TAXES on cigarettes. So much that the city had nearly tripled the price on them.

In a low-tax state like North Carolina, cigarettes can be bought for $5 a pack.

In New York City, the same cigarettes are anywhere from $11 to $15 a pack.

Garner's "crime"? He hadn't paid those extra taxes.

Unsurprisingly, NYC's crushing taxes created a huge black market. People like Eric Garner regularly drive down to North Carolina, load up on $5/pack cigarettes, come back to NYC, and sell them for "only" $8 or $9.

NYC's government had driven prices so artificially high, that Eric Garner even sold individual cigarettes. Because many people couldn't afford even a single, whole pack. Or he did, until NYC's police killed him.

Used to be, that government only made laws to protect people's rights. That was their whole job.

But more recently, big-government liberals have decided that government's job was to save people from their own mistakes, whether they were violating anybody else's rights or not. Places like New York City have gone so far off the rails, they even made laws against selling soft drinks that were "too large".

And they have a law that you are forbidden to sell a pack of cigarettes for under $10.50.

NYC Mayor DiBlasio issued an edict not long ago, telling NYPD cops to crack down on those terrifying hardened criminals who were selling individual cigarettes. The memo didn't mention exactly how those sellers were violating people's rights, or which rights were being violated. But the local government was missing out on some tax revenue (the taxes that tripled the price of cigarettes). And that could not be tolerated.

Garner had been busted for doing this, a number of times before. Of course, if the govt hadn't hiked taxes to such ridiculous levels, he probably would have never been busted for it at all. Nobody would have bothered to buy North Carolina cigarettes from him, so he never would have gone into business selling them in the first place.

An Obama official once remarked, "If you want to make an omelet, you have to crack a few eggs." The "eggs" that got "cracked" in that case were U.S. Border Patrol agents who were killed by Mexican drug cartels with gun illegally sold to them by the Obama administration.

Looks like another egg got cracked, this time in response to New York City government raising taxes on cigarettes, creating a whole new group of criminals who tried to evade those taxes. This "egg" was named Eric Garner.

Oops. Oh, well.

The NYC govt wanted to make an omelet, protecting people from their own faults (smoking cigarettes). Hope they enjoy it.

The police didn't kill Garner.

The death was ruled a homicide which means

1. a person or persons killed Garner (which would be the police)

or

2. the ME got it wrong.

Those are the only two choices, so either you're wrong, or you have to convince someone the ME was wrong.

 

[Vigilante]

He was put to death by stupidity...on his part!

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

A LEO can't just walk up to you and say "I suspect you are a criminal" and arrest you.

And yet it happens.

show an example of it.

I think you're mistaking "reasonable belief" with "suspicion" They simply aren't the same thing.

Now, I'm not saying that police don't briefly detain and question people based on nothing more than suspicion, of course they do. But that isn't an arrest.

Let's use a DUI example.

Let's say a police officer pulls you over for swerving down the road making him SUSPECT that you are DUI, That he can do.

What he can NOT do is arrest you without more tangible evidence that swerving in the road, that doesn't meet the requirements. So, he briefly detains you and administers a field sobriety test, after which he may arrest you based on your performance if he now has a reasonable belief that you DUI.

 

[jc456]

Yep.

I would have been fine if the GJ went the other way, the cop went too far.

But it would not have happened had Garner not resisted arrest. Same as Brown.

.

Yes, the cops went too far. Why don't you just stop there instead of trying to trash the victim?

You're implying that all Americans should treat the police as if the police are above the law in every regard

So you equate pointing out the obvious facts that (a) he resisted arrest and (b) none of what happened afterward would have happened had he not, with him being the victim.

And you get cranky when others point out that you're soft on criminals.

I see both sides of this story, you're going through life with only one eye open.

.

Why bother to train the police then in non-lethal restraint methods? If you've given up your right to life the moment you argue with a police officer,

why waste the money training the police?

I asked you a question, answer it or you agree the cops didn't use unethical tactics.

The cops killed a man by using a chokehold they'd been told not to use.

Dude, you aren't worth any further discussion. you have no alternative tactic to resolve the situation and agree the cops did their jobs. Therefore, the discussion is over.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Eric Garner was selling cigarettes.

And not even packs of them. Individual cigarettes. ("Loosies")

WTF? Why was he even doing that? And why was it a crime?

Answer: Because New York City had hugely increased TAXES on cigarettes. So much that the city had nearly tripled the price on them.

In a low-tax state like North Carolina, cigarettes can be bought for $5 a pack.

In New York City, the same cigarettes are anywhere from $11 to $15 a pack.

Garner's "crime"? He hadn't paid those extra taxes.

Unsurprisingly, NYC's crushing taxes created a huge black market. People like Eric Garner regularly drive down to North Carolina, load up on $5/pack cigarettes, come back to NYC, and sell them for "only" $8 or $9.

NYC's government had driven prices so artificially high, that Eric Garner even sold individual cigarettes. Because many people couldn't afford even a single, whole pack. Or he did, until NYC's police killed him.

Used to be, that government only made laws to protect people's rights. That was their whole job.

But more recently, big-government liberals have decided that government's job was to save people from their own mistakes, whether they were violating anybody else's rights or not. Places like New York City have gone so far off the rails, they even made laws against selling soft drinks that were "too large".

And they have a law that you are forbidden to sell a pack of cigarettes for under $10.50.

NYC Mayor DiBlasio issued an edict not long ago, telling NYPD cops to crack down on those terrifying hardened criminals who were selling individual cigarettes. The memo didn't mention exactly how those sellers were violating people's rights, or which rights were being violated. But the local government was missing out on some tax revenue (the taxes that tripled the price of cigarettes). And that could not be tolerated.

Garner had been busted for doing this, a number of times before. Of course, if the govt hadn't hiked taxes to such ridiculous levels, he probably would have never been busted for it at all. Nobody would have bothered to buy North Carolina cigarettes from him, so he never would have gone into business selling them in the first place.

An Obama official once remarked, "If you want to make an omelet, you have to crack a few eggs." The "eggs" that got "cracked" in that case were U.S. Border Patrol agents who were killed by Mexican drug cartels with gun illegally sold to them by the Obama administration.

Looks like another egg got cracked, this time in response to New York City government raising taxes on cigarettes, creating a whole new group of criminals who tried to evade those taxes. This "egg" was named Eric Garner.

Oops. Oh, well.

The NYC govt wanted to make an omelet, protecting people from their own faults (smoking cigarettes). Hope they enjoy it.

The police didn't kill Garner.

The death was ruled a homicide which means

1. a person or persons killed Garner (which would be the police)

or

2. the ME got it wrong.

Those are the only two choices, so either you're wrong, or you have to convince someone the ME was wrong.

The police DID kill Garner, absolutely positively it was a homicide, but not all homicides are illegal.

 

[jon_berzerk]

the atf takes the selling of wrongly taxed cigarettes very seriously

in fact they claim it is about to become the number one smuggled drug

 

[jc456]

Eric Garner was selling cigarettes.

And not even packs of them. Individual cigarettes. ("Loosies")

WTF? Why was he even doing that? And why was it a crime?

Answer: Because New York City had hugely increased TAXES on cigarettes. So much that the city had nearly tripled the price on them.

In a low-tax state like North Carolina, cigarettes can be bought for $5 a pack.

In New York City, the same cigarettes are anywhere from $11 to $15 a pack.

Garner's "crime"? He hadn't paid those extra taxes.

Unsurprisingly, NYC's crushing taxes created a huge black market. People like Eric Garner regularly drive down to North Carolina, load up on $5/pack cigarettes, come back to NYC, and sell them for "only" $8 or $9.

NYC's government had driven prices so artificially high, that Eric Garner even sold individual cigarettes. Because many people couldn't afford even a single, whole pack. Or he did, until NYC's police killed him.

Used to be, that government only made laws to protect people's rights. That was their whole job.

But more recently, big-government liberals have decided that government's job was to save people from their own mistakes, whether they were violating anybody else's rights or not. Places like New York City have gone so far off the rails, they even made laws against selling soft drinks that were "too large".

And they have a law that you are forbidden to sell a pack of cigarettes for under $10.50.

NYC Mayor DiBlasio issued an edict not long ago, telling NYPD cops to crack down on those terrifying hardened criminals who were selling individual cigarettes. The memo didn't mention exactly how those sellers were violating people's rights, or which rights were being violated. But the local government was missing out on some tax revenue (the taxes that tripled the price of cigarettes). And that could not be tolerated.

Garner had been busted for doing this, a number of times before. Of course, if the govt hadn't hiked taxes to such ridiculous levels, he probably would have never been busted for it at all. Nobody would have bothered to buy North Carolina cigarettes from him, so he never would have gone into business selling them in the first place.

An Obama official once remarked, "If you want to make an omelet, you have to crack a few eggs." The "eggs" that got "cracked" in that case were U.S. Border Patrol agents who were killed by Mexican drug cartels with gun illegally sold to them by the Obama administration.

Looks like another egg got cracked, this time in response to New York City government raising taxes on cigarettes, creating a whole new group of criminals who tried to evade those taxes. This "egg" was named Eric Garner.

Oops. Oh, well.

The NYC govt wanted to make an omelet, protecting people from their own faults (smoking cigarettes). Hope they enjoy it.

The police didn't kill Garner.

The death was ruled a homicide which means

1. a person or persons killed Garner (which would be the police)

or

2. the ME got it wrong.

Those are the only two choices, so either you're wrong, or you have to convince someone the ME was wrong.

The police DID kill Garner, absolutely positively it was a homicide, but not all homicides are illegal.

ding, ding, ding!!!!!

 

[SwimExpert]

show an example of it.

Well there was this one recent case in New York. This guy named Eric Garner was confronted by the police, who were responding to a call about a fistfight. When Garner refused to talk with police they attempted to take him into custody, employing a prohibited choke hold, which led to his death. Later, the police claimed that Garner was illegally selling cigarettes, but there has been no evidence that he was doing so.

 

[Carib Gyal]

show an example of it.

Well there was this one recent case in New York. This guy named Eric Garner was confronted by the police, who were responding to a call about a fistfight. When Garner refused to talk with police they attempted to take him into custody, employing a prohibited choke hold, which led to his death. Later, the police claimed that Garner was illegally selling cigarettes, but there has been no evidence that he was doing so.

Why do you advocate the murder of all black female police officers

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

show an example of it.

Well there was this one recent case in New York. This guy named Eric Garner was confronted by the police, who were responding to a call about a fistfight. When Garner refused to talk with police they attempted to take him into custody, employing a prohibited choke hold, which led to his death. Later, the police claimed that Garner was illegally selling cigarettes, but there has been no evidence that he was doing so.

I know you THINK that proves something, but it does not. The NYPD certainly isn't required to prove to you that they had a valid reason to attempt to arrest Eric Garner.

However, I submit that you must be insane if you truly believe that four undercover policeman, 2 uniformed policeman, and a black female supervisor all conspired to arrest this man for doing nothing wrong in broad daylight.

Keep in mind also that this man had been arrested MULTIPLE times in the past.

 

[SwimExpert]

However, I submit that you must be insane if you truly believe that four undercover policeman, 2 uniformed policeman, and a black female supervisor all conspired to arrest this man for doing nothing wrong in broad daylight.

I submit to you that you must be insane if you think that police are boy scouts and girl scouts and won't abuse their power.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

However, I submit that you must be insane if you truly believe that four undercover policeman, 2 uniformed policeman, and a black female supervisor all conspired to arrest this man for doing nothing wrong in broad daylight.

I submit to you that you must be insane if you think that police are boy scouts and girl scouts and won't abuse their power.

I certainly didn't say that. I was addressing ONE specific item.

Police don't make arrests because they SUSPECT a person has committed a crime, they MUST have a REASONABLE belief that they have done so.

Let me give another example.

Domestic disturbance call. Police shows up and the woman claims she was beat up, but there is no evidence to suggest she was. None. The police can't use just her word as basis for reasonable suspicion, thus no arrest.

On the other hand, police show up, woman has a black eye and says "no I tripped and fell" the man is being arrested, because that black is along with the 911 call is reasonable suspicion to make an arrest.

However , in EITHER case they can detain the man until they figure out what is going on.

 

[SwimExpert]

Police don't make arrests because they SUSPECT a person has committed a crime

False. It does happen.

they MUST have a REASONABLE belief that they have done so.

So what? Where has anyone questioned what the rules are? The fact that something is a rule does not preclude people behaving contrary to the rules. The very existence of police is predicated upon the fact that rules get broken all the time.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Police don't make arrests because they SUSPECT a person has committed a crime

False. It does happen.

they MUST have a REASONABLE belief that they have done so.

So what? Where has anyone questioned what the rules are? The fact that something is a rule does not preclude people behaving contrary to the rules. The very existence of police is predicated upon the fact that rules get broken all the time.

You are arguing over nothing here Swim.

The statement was made that the police can arrest you merely for suspecting that you have committed a crime, that is factually incorrect. They can NOT do so.

Which of course doesn't mean it doesn't ever happen. It merely means that the standard is higher than that, and what 99.9% of the time, that standard is met. Certainly it was in regards to Eric Gardner.

 

[SwimExpert]

The statement was made that the police can arrest you merely for suspecting that you have committed a crime

And you replied with a statement that the cannot, and thus do not.

 

[Carib Gyal]

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