Zone1 What Do Gods Really Want and Why?

[Foxfyre]

Self-appointed spokespeople for the notoriously aloof various divinities all seem to indicate they crave human validation.

Why such coy seekers of adulation in the form of relentless rituals, songs, fancy garb, processions, edifices, shindigs, assorted gestures, etc., etc., etc.?

Why would any self-respecting deity (omnipotent, omniscient, and eternal) care?

The traditions and rituals of religion are satisfying to those Christians, Jews, others who participate in them. Does God (or gods) require those traditions and rituals. I don't think so--most are mostly human invention--but neither do I see them as without value. And I do not sense that God disapproves of them. Those seeking to worship God can and do utilize all the senses--visual, i.e. the colors in the albs, stoles and other vestments etc.; auditory in the chants, music, hymnology etc.; olfactory in the incense used in high church services; taste in the bread and wine used in the Eucharist, Mass, communion; and so forth. There is intellectual stimulation in the sermons and Bible readings and the prayers are important to reach out to God in praise, trust, faith.

All put together whether the simplest form of meeting, low church, high church, whatever, God's people are not to be solitary but to join together in worship, praise, learning, mutual encouragement and all believers who do so benefit from it when the gathering is for the purpose of being in the presence of God together.

And because all of God's people are different, that there are different styles of worship is also a good thing as different people respond in different ways. So you have the most traditional services conducted according to strict liturgies and process and free wheeling contemporary services and charismatic services that can widely vary from meeting to meeting.

And none of it focused on God is without value. That is why both the Old and New Testaments have much to say about meeting together to worship God, study and support each other.

 

[SweetSue92]

For "us", rather than for any gods?

Quite possibly.

God doesn't need anything. He is all-sufficient in Himself. So yes, it's not that HE needs the worship to be fulfilled. It's that worshipping Him is what's best for us.

You seem to be saying we worship God because we think it helps us too. Not always, in fact, not even a lot of the time. It's called a "Sacrifice" of praise because many times it's easier not to do it. We are prone to laziness

 

[schmidlap]

The traditions and rituals of religion are satisfying to those Christians, Jews, others who participate in them. Does God (or gods) require those traditions and rituals. I don't think so--most are mostly human invention--but neither do I see them as without value. And I do not sense that God disapproves of them. Those seeking to worship God can and do utilize all the senses--visual, i.e. the colors in the albs, stoles and other vestments etc.; auditory in the chants, music, hymnology etc.; olfactory in the incense used in high church services; taste in the bread and wine used in the Eucharist, Mass, communion; and so forth. There is intellectual stimulation in the sermons and Bible readings and the prayers are important to reach out to God in praise, trust, faith.

All put together whether the simplest form of meeting, low church, high church, whatever, God's people are not to be solitary but to join together in worship, praise, learning, mutual encouragement and all believers who do so benefit from it when the gathering is for the purpose of being in the presence of God together.

And because all of God's people are different, that there are different styles of worship is also a good thing as different people respond in different ways. So you have the most traditional services conducted according to strict liturgies and process and free wheeling contemporary services and charismatic services that can widely vary from meeting to meeting.

And none of it focused on God is without value. That is why both the Old and New Testaments have much to say about meeting together to worship God, study and support each other.

Given the ubiquitous nature of rituals and ceremonies of the various religions, I suspect that the adherents to them must assume that their gods like them. Of course, participating in groups that share religious preferences reinforces a participant's beliefs. If that works for someone, and does not harm others, that is what really matters.

 

[Hawkins]

God is building an eternity we call Heaven, where the angels and humans with live with God forever. The three parties will be in high satisfaction and happiness.
1) As the first side God is a completely sin-incompatible God, to Him living with sin is like standing in a pool of sh*t.
2) Freewill is granted to both angels and humans, with humans in a wider degree. Freewill in the end means one is given the ability to oppose God, and they will.
3) Angels, though with a lesser degree of freewill, have a much higher intelligence and ability as their very existence is for participating God's creation. Inevitably they possess an influence on humans (in Eden, Earth and Heaven).

That's what it is.
1) God detailed what will ruin His satisfaction and set up Law, followed by a Final Judgment to determine who can enter Heaven.
2) 2/3 angels by freewill will pass the Judgment of Law to enter Heaven. By the factor of freewill alone, 1/3 or less humans will be able to pass the same Judgment of Law, referred to as the "narrow gate".
3) However by the influence of the 1/3 fallen angels with higher intelligence and ability (crafty snake in Eden), 0 human can pass the Judgment of Law which allows 2/3 angels to pass. No man is saved this way. Men shall thus be destroyed by the flood to release God's pain (like living in a pool of sh*t).

Now with Jesus' self sacrifice at a certain point of humanity, humans can somehow "dodge" the Judgment of Law. Humans will be judged by covenants instead. Different scopes of humans are put under the different covenants and to be judged. By this newly established standard, 1/3 or less humans will pass the Judgment of Covenant to enter Heaven.

In effect, 1/3 or less humans are said to be captive by the effort of the devil. The Shepherd takes them back by His self-sacrifice.

Current status,
As promised to Noah, God is now bearing with our sin (living in a pool of sh*t) till the Final Judgment but not beyond.

 

[schmidlap]

God doesn't need anything. He is all-sufficient in Himself. So yes, it's not that HE needs the worship to be fulfilled. It's that worshipping Him is what's best for us.

You seem to be saying we worship God because we think it helps us too. Not always, in fact, not even a lot of the time. It's called a "Sacrifice" of praise because many times it's easier not to do it. We are prone to laziness

Religions seem to presume to know and proclaim what their god(s) of choice want, and a religion's adherents generally accept what they are told by those who run that religion. Is that "good for us"? I won't speculate. Humans are obviously as fallible concerning religion as everything else, but some seem to claim infallibility in the matter.

 

[Foxfyre]

Given the ubiquitous nature of rituals and ceremonies of the various religions, I suspect that the adherents to them must assume that their gods like them. Of course, participating in groups that share religious preferences reinforces a participant's beliefs. If that works for someone, and does not harm others, that is what really matters.

I suspect the adherents to various religious traditions, creeds, liturgy do so mostly because the adherents are encouraged, strengthened, feel closer to God by doing them or just enjoy doing them. I have been on many Church planning committees and whether God likes a particular tradition or policy rarely comes up in the discussions. It is mostly whether it helps the people in their devotion and worship of God and/or helps them to allow God to use them to love others.

I do think most Christians do sense when they think God would not like something though and try to avoid those things.

 

[Hawkins]

Religions seem to presume to know and proclaim what their god(s) of choice want, and a religion's adherents generally accept what they are told by those who run that religion. Is that "good for us"? I won't speculate. Humans are obviously as fallible concerning religion as everything else, but some seem to claim infallibility in the matter.

Not what you think.

If God shows up publicly, then no men are savable as men need to be saved by faith alone as specified by the current Covenant in place. If God doesn't show up at all, then no man can know the existence of God and His covenants. The only way which works is for God to show up in front of the chosen eyewitnesses then for them to write down the testimonies, then for the rest of humankind to believe with faith to be saved.

Ancient prophets are reckoned by Israel (God's chosen people, that's how the Jews function) through 1) prophecies and 2) miracles, as humans are incapable of doing both by themselves. God grants such abilities to the prophets for Israel to reckon with them at the end. The eyewitnesses are reckoned as "prophets" as they can foretell (an ability which humans lack).