What does a "federal government shutdown" really mean?

[Seawytch]

It means that a few worthless federal employees will sit on their ass doing nothing at home, and draw a retroactive pay check; instead of sitting on their ass doing nothing at some bogus government agency.

Its like trimming the fat, except the fat comes right back.

Actually, they WON'T get a retroactive pay check. If they don't show up for work, they don't get paid.

Back in the last shutdown in '93, I remember seeing 2/3rds of the staff of PSD Newport RI (who were civilians, because the government thought it would be a good idea to hire civilian workers to replace Navy personnel, as it was more cost effective) were sent home for over 20 days and did NOT get retroactive pay.

The military? Well, even though we had to keep working (as we'd signed a contract stating we would), we didn't get paid for those 20 plus days, but when the government started up again, we were all given back pay for what we'd missed.

I'm wondering what's going to happen if they keep it shut for over a month, because then it will affect the military retirees (of which I am one), and they're going to be pissed and calling their congress critters to restart the government.

Thankfully, I think I have enough saved up for that possible scenario.

You THINK you have enough saved up for a month without pay?

Dude, you need to learn how to budget.

Four in six Americans live paycheck to paycheck.

 

[asterism]

Yup. These Fed workers could disappear and no one would miss em.

AS for them getting payed?? They shouldn't get payed while furloughed. Who the hell pays people to sit home??

Oh wait. I forgot. Its the Govt and they use our tax dollars to pay people to sit home and do nothing or sit in some Govt office doing nothing. Never mind.

Go ahead and close all of the VA down and all of the Social Security offices and THEN tell us how there's no difference. The only reason Social Security and VA entitlements are still hitting the banks and mailboxes is because federal employees are still on the job in spite of being told that their pay-checks won't be there.

The difference now is that most federal employees are showing up for work and taking care of business on the assumption that they'll eventually be paid for their efforts.

How many of you would go to work if the boss said you had to be there and, if you get paid at all, it will be late?

You mean like 1991 when DFAS lost my records when they went digital? I didn't get a paycheck for 3 months and then did get back pay for 2 years. It happens to most people at some time in their lives. Unlike federal workers, I would have been sent to jail for not showing up at work - despite not being paid for it.

That said, NOBODY in the VA and SSA offices are working for free. That's an absolute myth. Only essential security folks are working with deferred pay and that's something that just comes with the job. If they didn't know this was a possibility, they were not paying attention.

It's illegal for federal workers in non-essential roles to work without pay.

 

[asterism]

Those who are told to show up for work will be given back pay for their efforts.

I feel sorry for those who are furloughed though, because they are going to miss out on however many days of pay they would have had if they'd been allowed to continue to work.

During the last time the government closed, I have to admit, there were a lot of people in the military that were wondering (myself included) if we were going to have to work for free.

One of the problems that I really have with the shutdown is some of the things that are closing.

They've closed the FDA, which means no more food inspections for as long as the shutdown is in effect. Salmonella in your food anyone?

I'm also concerned that those who depend on the VA for assistance (like for treatment of PTSD) aren't going to receive the care they need, and may end up going ballistic and shooting up a mall, another school, or possibly shooting up another base.

Anyone remember the Navy yard shooter? It happened only a few weeks ago.

I agree with some of what you said. Showing up to work at a Federal job in a non-pay status is illegal. There is much risk to the government for allowing a civilian to subsidize the government. For instance, if you die at your desk, or get hurt in the shop while in a non-pay status, pandoras box is opened

Fact is, majority of Federal workers are at work and getting paid.

-Geaux

Really? Got a link to back up your bullshit?

Like I said, I remember the last shutdown that happened in 93, and I remember the impact it had on not only my life, but the lives of my civilian co workers.

A majority of Federal workers are at work and getting paid? Remember, a majority is 51 percent or better.

Show me a link to back up your claims.

It had no impact on your life, you got paid. What a frickin' drama queen!. Also, you are fucking liar, there was no shutdown in 1993.

Most federal workers are on the job and getting paid.

Impact of a government shutdown on federal agencies - The Washington Post

More Than 800,000 Federal Workers Are Furloughed - WSJ.com

 

[asterism]

Really? Got a link to back up your bullshit?

Like I said, I remember the last shutdown that happened in 93, and I remember the impact it had on not only my life, but the lives of my civilian co workers.

A majority of Federal workers are at work and getting paid? Remember, a majority is 51 percent or better.

Show me a link to back up your claims.

Oh, BTW- I remember the last shut down too. While you were being 'hurt' slick Willie was playing 'hide the cigar'

What a guy

-Geaux

Actually, I wasn't "hurt" that Clinton played hide the cigar with Monica, I was pissed that he'd lied about it.

I was "hurt" because the GOP are the ones that decided to shut down the government for over 20 days and because the civilian workers that were part of my command were furloughed and I had to do 3 times the work that I would have if they were still there.

Clinton's sex scandal had no effect on me other than to piss me off because he'd lied.

The shutdown of the government by the GOP had a serious effect, because not only did I have an increase of my workload, but I also had to wonder if I was going to get paid, as well as had to counsel others about how they could get help from Navy Relief.

Additionally.........................do you realize how hard it is to hear your co-workers call up and ask if they could come back to work (knowing they are not getting paid) and have to tell them that they couldn't come back yet?

I guess not, because you live in a place where the shutdown doesn't affect you.

3 times the work? That's bullshit. If you were in a role and properly utilized it would be impossible for you to do 3 times the work. Do some math and show us how you could possibly do 3 times the work you were doing.

There's 24 hours in a day. Assume 7 hours for sleep, commuting, and grabbing some food. That leaves 17 hours left over. So are you saying that your average day without the shutdown (which didn't happen in 1993 as you claim) was less than 6 hours?

 

[asterism]

Actually, they WON'T get a retroactive pay check. If they don't show up for work, they don't get paid.

Back in the last shutdown in '93, I remember seeing 2/3rds of the staff of PSD Newport RI (who were civilians, because the government thought it would be a good idea to hire civilian workers to replace Navy personnel, as it was more cost effective) were sent home for over 20 days and did NOT get retroactive pay.

The military? Well, even though we had to keep working (as we'd signed a contract stating we would), we didn't get paid for those 20 plus days, but when the government started up again, we were all given back pay for what we'd missed.

I'm wondering what's going to happen if they keep it shut for over a month, because then it will affect the military retirees (of which I am one), and they're going to be pissed and calling their congress critters to restart the government.

Thankfully, I think I have enough saved up for that possible scenario.

You THINK you have enough saved up for a month without pay?

Dude, you need to learn how to budget.

Four in six Americans live paycheck to paycheck.

Ignorance and stupidity is not an excuse. Everyone is clearly told that there is a possibility of furlough. If they don't plan, it's their fault.

 

[Seawytch]

You THINK you have enough saved up for a month without pay?

Dude, you need to learn how to budget.

Four in six Americans live paycheck to paycheck.

Ignorance and stupidity is not an excuse. Everyone is clearly told that there is a possibility of furlough. If they don't plan, it's their fault.

If you are living paycheck to paycheck there is no way to "plan" to not have one.

 

[asterism]

Four in six Americans live paycheck to paycheck.

Ignorance and stupidity is not an excuse. Everyone is clearly told that there is a possibility of furlough. If they don't plan, it's their fault.

If you are living paycheck to paycheck there is no way to "plan" to not have one.

Yes there is, don't spend so much. These are federal workers, not the working poor.

NBC had a sob story on yesterday about a federal worker that just bought a new house and might not be able to make his first mortgage payment (they showed a picture of the house, it was quite nice). He then said all teary-eyed that he was afraid of losing his house - cut to a picture of the newborn baby. Why did he buy the house in the first place if he couldn't afford to pay for it if there was a shutdown? There was certainly enough warning. And is he so ignorant as to think that his house will be foreclosed just for making one payment late? This is the caliber of intelligence our government hires?

He is either lying, can't prioritize, or just plain cannot afford that house.


Also, that number is more like 1 in 3 that actually live paycheck to paycheck - those with so savings at all.

 

[Seawytch]

Ignorance and stupidity is not an excuse. Everyone is clearly told that there is a possibility of furlough. If they don't plan, it's their fault.

If you are living paycheck to paycheck there is no way to "plan" to not have one.

Yes there is, don't spend so much. These are federal workers, not the working poor.

NBC had a sob story on yesterday about a federal worker that just bought a new house and might not be able to make his first mortgage payment (they showed a picture of the house, it was quite nice). Why did he buy the house in the first place if he couldn't afford to pay for it if there was a shutdown? There was certainly enough warning.

He is either lying, can't prioritize, or just plain cannot afford that house.


Also, that number is more like 1 in 3 that actually live paycheck to paycheck - those with so savings at all.

Yes, 1 in 3 is so much different than 4 in 6...

If you live paycheck to paycheck, there is nothing to save.

 

[asterism]

If you are living paycheck to paycheck there is no way to "plan" to not have one.

Yes there is, don't spend so much. These are federal workers, not the working poor.

NBC had a sob story on yesterday about a federal worker that just bought a new house and might not be able to make his first mortgage payment (they showed a picture of the house, it was quite nice). Why did he buy the house in the first place if he couldn't afford to pay for it if there was a shutdown? There was certainly enough warning.

He is either lying, can't prioritize, or just plain cannot afford that house.


Also, that number is more like 1 in 3 that actually live paycheck to paycheck - those with so savings at all.

Yes, 1 in 3 is so much different than 4 in 6...

If you live paycheck to paycheck, there is nothing to save.

Do you not understand math? 1 in 3 is exactly half of 4 in 6.

If you live paycheck to paycheck and you make above poverty wages, you are spending too much - period.

 

[Seawytch]

Yes there is, don't spend so much. These are federal workers, not the working poor.

NBC had a sob story on yesterday about a federal worker that just bought a new house and might not be able to make his first mortgage payment (they showed a picture of the house, it was quite nice). Why did he buy the house in the first place if he couldn't afford to pay for it if there was a shutdown? There was certainly enough warning.

He is either lying, can't prioritize, or just plain cannot afford that house.


Also, that number is more like 1 in 3 that actually live paycheck to paycheck - those with so savings at all.

Yes, 1 in 3 is so much different than 4 in 6...

If you live paycheck to paycheck, there is nothing to save.

Do you not understand math? 1 in 3 is exactly half of 4 in 6.

If you live paycheck to paycheck and you make above poverty wages, you are spending too much - period.

While it may be true that they are "spending too much" it doesn't change the reality and that reality is that most people can't go without a paycheck for that long.

More than two-thirds in U.S. live paycheck to paycheck: survey

Two thirds of Americans can't go that long without a paycheck.

 

[asterism]

Yes, 1 in 3 is so much different than 4 in 6...

If you live paycheck to paycheck, there is nothing to save.

Do you not understand math? 1 in 3 is exactly half of 4 in 6.

If you live paycheck to paycheck and you make above poverty wages, you are spending too much - period.

While it may be true that they are "spending too much" it doesn't change the reality and that reality is that most people can't go without a paycheck for that long.

More than two-thirds in U.S. live paycheck to paycheck: survey

Two thirds of Americans can't go that long without a paycheck.

From your own link:

The main reason Kowalik's clients live paycheck to paycheck is that they have come to see luxuries as essential expenses, she said.

"Cable used to be a luxury. Now it's expected," she said. "People have an expectation that they should have a mobile phone, you should be able to have the Internet. People are going to have to change their outlook and put things into perspective."

What were you saying again?

 

[Seawytch]

Do you not understand math? 1 in 3 is exactly half of 4 in 6.

If you live paycheck to paycheck and you make above poverty wages, you are spending too much - period.

While it may be true that they are "spending too much" it doesn't change the reality and that reality is that most people can't go without a paycheck for that long.

More than two-thirds in U.S. live paycheck to paycheck: survey

Two thirds of Americans can't go that long without a paycheck.

From your own link:

The main reason Kowalik's clients live paycheck to paycheck is that they have come to see luxuries as essential expenses, she said.

"Cable used to be a luxury. Now it's expected," she said. "People have an expectation that they should have a mobile phone, you should be able to have the Internet. People are going to have to change their outlook and put things into perspective."

What were you saying again?

I said it does not change the reality of not being able to go without a paycheck for weeks and weeks. Notice how the fuckwads in Congress get paid.

 

[AVG-JOE]

What does a "federal government shutdown" really mean?

It means the country is being held hostage by a small but radical group of republican TPM extremists who’d rather use extortion than see reason.

Gee, that's how Democrats passed Obamacare, didn't they?

Funny... I sure don't remember a shut-down, or even a threat of one, back in the summer of 2010...

Got link? ​

 

[AVG-JOE]

What does a "federal government shutdown" really mean?

It means the country is being held hostage by a small but radical group of republican TPM extremists who’d rather use extortion than see reason.

Imagine if you will, a Republican President and Senate being told by a Democratic Speaker of the house that shutting down the government might be just the ticket to get comprehensive gun legislation through...

How do you feeeeeeeeeeel about that scenario?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Go ahead and close all of the VA down and all of the Social Security offices and THEN tell us how there's no difference. The only reason Social Security and VA entitlements are still hitting the banks and mailboxes is because federal employees are still on the job in spite of being told that their pay-checks won't be there.

The difference now is that most federal employees are showing up for work and taking care of business on the assumption that they'll eventually be paid for their efforts.

How many of you would go to work if the boss said you had to be there and, if you get paid at all, it will be late?

Those who are told to show up for work will be given back pay for their efforts.

I feel sorry for those who are furloughed though, because they are going to miss out on however many days of pay they would have had if they'd been allowed to continue to work.

During the last time the government closed, I have to admit, there were a lot of people in the military that were wondering (myself included) if we were going to have to work for free.

One of the problems that I really have with the shutdown is some of the things that are closing.

They've closed the FDA, which means no more food inspections for as long as the shutdown is in effect. Salmonella in your food anyone?

I'm also concerned that those who depend on the VA for assistance (like for treatment of PTSD) aren't going to receive the care they need, and may end up going ballistic and shooting up a mall, another school, or possibly shooting up another base.

Anyone remember the Navy yard shooter? It happened only a few weeks ago.

I agree with some of what you said. Showing up to work at a Federal job in a non-pay status is illegal. There is much risk to the government for allowing a civilian to subsidize the government. For instance, if you die at your desk, or get hurt in the shop while in a non-pay status, pandoras box is opened

Fact is, majority of Federal workers are at work and getting paid.

-Geaux

Fact is, that's bullshit.

I know because I'm working for free right now - and it is at the whim of congress as to any retro pay later. The only thing we've been told is that not showing up for work is a guarantee of not getting paid.

 

[Claudette]

Yup. These Fed workers could disappear and no one would miss em.

AS for them getting payed?? They shouldn't get payed while furloughed. Who the hell pays people to sit home??

Oh wait. I forgot. Its the Govt and they use our tax dollars to pay people to sit home and do nothing or sit in some Govt office doing nothing. Never mind.

Go ahead and close all of the VA down and all of the Social Security offices and THEN tell us how there's no difference. The only reason Social Security and VA entitlements are still hitting the banks and mailboxes is because federal employees are still on the job in spite of being told that their pay-checks won't be there.

The difference now is that most federal employees are showing up for work and taking care of business on the assumption that they'll eventually be paid for their efforts.

How many of you would go to work if the boss said you had to be there and, if you get paid at all, it will be late?

They aren't closing any of that down.

Here's a couple list of exactly what will be shut down either partially or fully and what will remain open.

Government shutdown: What's closed, what's open?

Absolutely everything you need to know about how the government shutdown will work

 

[Claudette]

If you don't get retro pay then use your vacation time like the rest of us do.

Why the hell should you or anyone get payed to sit on your ass at home??

If you are at work then you should get payed.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Yup. These Fed workers could disappear and no one would miss em.

AS for them getting payed?? They shouldn't get payed while furloughed. Who the hell pays people to sit home??

Oh wait. I forgot. Its the Govt and they use our tax dollars to pay people to sit home and do nothing or sit in some Govt office doing nothing. Never mind.

Go ahead and close all of the VA down and all of the Social Security offices and THEN tell us how there's no difference. The only reason Social Security and VA entitlements are still hitting the banks and mailboxes is because federal employees are still on the job in spite of being told that their pay-checks won't be there.

The difference now is that most federal employees are showing up for work and taking care of business on the assumption that they'll eventually be paid for their efforts.

How many of you would go to work if the boss said you had to be there and, if you get paid at all, it will be late?

They aren't closing any of that down.

Here's a couple list of exactly what will be shut down either partially or fully and what will remain open.

Government shutdown: What's closed, what's open?

Absolutely everything you need to know about how the government shutdown will work

Exactly!

They're NOT shut down. That's why noticing the shut-down will take some time.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

it's like when a codependent doesn't have their partner to lean on. In this particular case, it's as though the world is beginning to end for Statists.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Government is a jobs program for otherwise unemployable inividuals. So there are probably a lot of anxiety sufferers out there today.