What happens to you when you die?

[ding]

Consciousness is more than the brain.

Wrong. It is fully contained within the brain. It helps in processing sensory input from your body, but can and does exist independent of them.

Spare me the pages of your equivocation. You are not going to talk your way around this one .

Sorry, bro. There is no one location in the brain you can point to. Your consciousness encompasses your entire being.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

There is no one location in the brain you can point to

Haha, look at ding, 2 posts in, trying out his parlor tricks already. First, it was "no one point in your physiology".

Whoops, that didn't work. Now it's, "no one point in your brain", a statement seemingly made in contradiction to nothing anyone has said or implied, and one which comes with no attempt whatsoever to acknowledge the failure of the first attempt and the bait and switch then attempted.

Have fun arguing with the wind, ding. Maybe find a gullible child to try your act on, like the Christian missionaries do.

 

[Hollie]

If God (whatever or whoever that may be) is within all of us and God is infinite then maybe we are infinite. And this brief time walking around in a meat suit on Earth is perhaps a learning experience before returning to the infinite plain.

Maybe...too bad we will never know...

He said "infinite plain." If there is a second life,then you should know.

I can't. It seems like a reasonable determination.

What about the mind/brain still working? What do you think -- that it eventually stop..p..p....p...........s?

The brain and the mind are two completely different things. Your brain will cease to function one day. It's degradable.
Your mind never ceases to exist. It never ages. It is on eternal time. It's why people say, " It seems like yesterday that I..."

Do you believe that the infinite mind is essentially the "soul" or is that something else?

That's a great question.

I have no explanation for "spirits" or the "soul" because the soul remains undemonstrated. I have no properties and characteristics for that which does not exist. I do have a comment about personality, and where that comes from. The sense of self is a higher brain function and it's seen in comparably lesser degrees in lesser animals (i.e., humans are not the only creatures with a sense of "self"). This in and of itself is enough to prove that "selfhood" is a natural phenomenon of higher brain functions. Either that, or your gods have made monkeys and men with a soul each, and that means humans are not the especial creation of god. Language, nurturing, survival, industry, and even environmental control all can be attributed to animals lesser on the sentience strat than man, which is a great case for man being of and a part of the natural world-- no gods needed.

Personality is a phenomenon of the brain. Remove sections of the brain and the "self" changes as well. Apparently the eternal "soul" is at the mercy of a few pounds of grey jelly, because the soul cannot override the impact to the brain and the change in personality that attends that impact. The soul must be fairly weak.

This is a perfectly valid explanation for emotions, and it doesn't require the mumbo-jumbo of gods to explain it.

Non-material concepts are not fully non-material. You need a brain to substantiate them. Damage or impact to the brain directly affects the development and delivery of the concepts. You are simply assuming a spiritual nature for these things, and not submitting any case to support it. I am submitting they are the effects of the brain along with neurons and chemicals within the brain, and I can demonstrate how they can be manipulated by physical impact.

By way of example, I can

1. end all thought by killing that brain
2. create an emotion by chemical inducement of that brain
3. limit the thought and emotion of the brain by removing sections of it.

All the poetry about feelings and spirit and so on -- reside only in the brain. Remove it, and away it all goes. All of it. Even belief in gods.


late edit - I saw your recent post and made some changes.

 

[ding]

There is no one location in the brain you can point to

Haha, look ding, 2 posts in, trying out his parlor tricks. First, it was "no one point in your body".

Whoops, that didn't work. Now it's, "one point in your brain", a statement seemingly made in contradiction to nothing g anyone has said.

Have fun arguing with the wind, ding.

I guess it went over your head. You say consciousness is contained in your brain, right? Where in your brain is consciousness contained? If you cannot tell me that then how can you tell me consciousness is contained in the brain?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

To further expound on the topic at hand:

Free will as we have long come to think of it is an illusion. We can actually test this, using scientific experiment. As it turns out -- and the results are the same every time we look -- you make your choices before you are aware that you have made them.

This newfound empirical knowledge comes with all manner of implications for morality and ethics.

 

[ding]

To further expound on the topic at hand:

Free will as we have long come to think of it is an illusion. We can actually test this, using scientific experiment. As it turns out -- and the results are the same every time we look -- you make your choices before you are aware that you have made them.

This newfound empirical knowledge comes with all manner of implications for morality and ethics.

How does making choices before you are aware of them negate that choices were indeed made?

 

[ding]

There is no one location in the brain you can point to

Haha, look at ding, 2 posts in, trying out his parlor tricks already. First, it was "no one point in your physiology".

Whoops, that didn't work. Now it's, "no one point in your brain", a statement seemingly made in contradiction to nothing anyone has said or implied, and one which comes with no attempt whatsoever to acknowledge the failure of the first attempt and the bait and switch then attempted.

Have fun arguing with the wind, ding. Maybe find a gullible child to try your act on, like the Christian missionaries do.

“In my life as scientist I have come upon two major problems which, though rooted in science, though they would occur in this form only to a scientist, project beyond science, and are I think ultimately insoluble as science. That is hardly to be wondered at, since one involves consciousness and the other, cosmology.

The consciousness problem was hardly avoidable by one who has spent most of his life studying mechanisms of vision. We have learned a lot, we hope to learn much more; but none of it touches or even points, however tentatively, in the direction of what it means to see. Our observations in human eyes and nervous systems and in those of frogs are basically much alike. I know that I see; but does a frog see? It reacts to light; so do cameras, garage doors, any number of photoelectric devices. But does it see? Is it aware that it is reacting? There is nothing I can do as a scientist to answer that question, no way that I can identify either the presence or absence of consciousness. I believe consciousness to be a permanent condition that involves all sensation and perception. Consciousness seems to me to be wholly impervious to science.

The second problem involves the special properties of our universe. Life seems increasingly to be part of the order of nature. We have good reason to believe that we find ourselves in a universe permeated with life, in which life arises inevitably, given enough time, wherever the conditions exist that make it possible. Yet were any one of a number of the physical properties of our universe otherwise - some of them basic, others seemingly trivial, almost accidental - that life, which seems now to be so prevalent, would become impossible, here or anywhere. It takes no great imagination to conceive of other possible universes, each stable and workable in itself, yet lifeless. How is it that, with so many other apparent options, we are in a universe that possesses just that peculiar nexus of properties that breeds life?

It has occurred to me lately - I must confess with some shock at first to my scientific sensibilities - that both questions might be brought into some degree of congruence. This is with the assumption that Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.”

George Wald, 1984, “Life and Mind in the Universe”, International Journal of Quantum Chemistry: Quantum Biology Symposium 11, 1984: 1-15.

 

[sparky]

I was told early on, never speak ill of the unconsious in the back of the ambulance

seems the ones the doc's 'get back' have stories ......

~S~

 

[BreezeWood]

If God (whatever or whoever that may be) is within all of us and God is infinite then maybe we are infinite. And this brief time walking around in a meat suit on Earth is perhaps a learning experience before returning to the infinite plain.

Maybe...too bad we will never know...

You'll know the instant you pass. Your last breath here is your first breath elsewhere. Where depends on you. You never cease to exist. God wants His children with Him for eternity, not just a few years...

.

You'll know the instant you pass.

those who become sinless know before they pass, those who were successful in that endeavor.

 

[BreezeWood]

The mind is not

The mind is simply one of the functions of the brain. Just as is the subconscious and the automated functions. You can no more separate it from the physical components and processes of your brain than you can separate the renal functions from the kidneys.

I can change your personality with a few ounces of ethyl alcohol. I can remove part of your forebrain and make you lose your inhibitions. I can remove part of your temporal lobe and make you forget how to speak English.

And I can remove another one of your organs amd it will affect none of this.

So yes, your mind is just part of your brain. And it dies when the brain dies. Forever. Just as you no longer perform renal functions when your kidneys die.

All the evidence ever found shows this is exactly correct, and you have not a shred of evidence to claim otherwise.

.

All the mind stuff is just the electrical impulses flowing between the neurons in the physical brain. When the physical brain dies, the mind is gone. It ceases to exist.

All the evidence ever found shows this is exactly correct, and you have not a shred of evidence to claim otherwise.

the CNS has nothing to do with the spirit ...

Flora has no CNS, their spirit the same as Fauna is metaphysical the same as physiology is a metaphysical substance both of which combine in the beginning to give life to all beings.

 

[ding]

I was told early on, never speak ill of the unconsious in the back of the ambulance

seems the ones the doc's 'get back' have stories ......

~S~

Humans are complex adaptive systems comprised of complex adaptive systems living inside a complex adaptive system which exists inside a complex adaptive system. Too often we try to simplify things which cannot be simplified. The interconnectedness of our bodies with the interconnectedness of our societies with the interconnectedness of nature with the interconnectedness of the universe is orders upon orders of magnitude of complexity within orders upon orders of magnitude of complexity.

If the purpose of the universe was to create intelligence then a preference in nature for intelligence had to exist, and that is exactly what we find. The Laws of Nature are such that the potential for consciousness to exist existed the moment space and time were created. In fact, it is possible that the Laws of Nature themselves are conscious. One can argue that given the laws of nature and the size of the universe that consciousness arising was inevitable. One can also argue that creating consciousness from nothing defies the Second Law of Entropy. That creating consciousness from nothing increases order within the universe. It actually doesn't because usable energy was lost along the way as a cost of creating order from disorder. But it is nature overriding it's tendency for ever increasing disorder that interests me and raises my suspicions to look deeper and to take seriously the proposition that a mind without a body created the material world so that minds with bodies could create too.

If we examine the physical laws we discover that we live in a logical universe governed by rules, laws and information. Rules laws and information are a signs of intelligence. Intentionality and purpose are signs of intelligence. The definition of reason is a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event. The definition of purpose is the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists. The consequence of a logical universe is that every cause has an effect. Which means that everything happens for a reason and serves a purpose. The very nature of our physical laws point to reason and purpose.

So when I read the posts of jackanapes who are so certain that there is no higher purpose or meaning to life, I can't help but think they are intellectually stunted because they are incapable of considering anything beyond their limited knowledge.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The mind is not

The mind is simply one of the functions of the brain. Just as is the subconscious and the automated functions. You can no more separate it from the physical components and processes of your brain than you can separate the renal functions from the kidneys.

I can change your personality with a few ounces of ethyl alcohol. I can remove part of your forebrain and make you lose your inhibitions. I can remove part of your temporal lobe and make you forget how to speak English.

And I can remove another one of your organs amd it will affect none of this.

So yes, your mind is just part of your brain. And it dies when the brain dies. Forever. Just as you no longer perform renal functions when your kidneys die.

All the evidence ever found shows this is exactly correct, and you have not a shred of evidence to claim otherwise.

.

All the mind stuff is just the electrical impulses flowing between the neurons in the physical brain. When the physical brain dies, the mind is gone. It ceases to exist.

All the evidence ever found shows this is exactly correct, and you have not a shred of evidence to claim otherwise.

the CNS has nothing to do with the spirit ...

Flora has no CNS, their spirit the same as Fauna is metaphysical the same as physiology is a metaphysical substance both of which combine in the beginning to give life to all beings.

Well thank you for that utterly useless information.

 

[The Irish Ram]

The brain and the mind are two completely different things.

No they aren't. Your mind is just the physical processes in your brain.

No, it is not. The brain is a physical organ. The mind is not. The mind is your being. It is non linear, and is the essence of you. The mind is your conscience. Your brain has no conscience. The mind is your emotion, your thoughts, your memories. The brain is not. Your mind is you, and it is eternal. You take all of your information with you when the clay gives out.
A good explanation of the two:
" the mind is corporate management and the brain and the body are organized labor".

All the mind stuff is just the electrical impulses flowing between the neurons in the physical brain. When the physical brain dies, the mind is gone. It ceases to exist.

Dr Sam Parnia, director of critical care and resuscitation research at NYU Langone School of Medicine in New York City, begs to differ. What are your qualifications that brought you to your conclusion?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Dr Sam Parnia, director of critical care and resuscitation research at NYU Langone School of Medicine in New York City, begs to differ.

So what? These things are decided on evidence. And he has none.

And please do not pretend that these credentials matter to you. Else you would side with nearly the entire rest of the medical community.

 

[ding]

To further expound on the topic at hand:

Free will as we have long come to think of it is an illusion. We can actually test this, using scientific experiment. As it turns out -- and the results are the same every time we look -- you make your choices before you are aware that you have made them.

This newfound empirical knowledge comes with all manner of implications for morality and ethics.

How does making choices before you are aware of them negate that choices were indeed made?

In fact, I can tell you from my own personal experiences I have intuitively made decisions which later were proven correct because I would later realize or become aware of a whole host of reasons for why that decision was the correct decision. It's like a computer subroutine running in background. There is a good reason to trust your instincts. They are usually right even though at the time you may not fully understand why they are right. That's consciousness.

 

[The Irish Ram]

The brain is a tangible organ in the body that controls all vital human function. Conversely, the mind permeates every cell of the human body[1] and consults with non-human cells such as the gut bacteria, which comprise nine tenths of the cells in our bodies.[2]More importantly, the mind ultimately has dominion over the brain.
Your Mind Does Not Care What Your Brain Thinks

 

[Hollie]

The mind is not

The mind is simply one of the functions of the brain. Just as is the subconscious and the automated functions. You can no more separate it from the physical components and processes of your brain than you can separate the renal functions from the kidneys.

I can change your personality with a few ounces of ethyl alcohol. I can remove part of your forebrain and make you lose your inhibitions. I can remove part of your temporal lobe and make you forget how to speak English.

And I can remove another one of your organs amd it will affect none of this.

So yes, your mind is just part of your brain. And it dies when the brain dies. Forever. Just as you no longer perform renal functions when your kidneys die.

All the evidence ever found shows this is exactly correct, and you have not a shred of evidence to claim otherwise.

.

All the mind stuff is just the electrical impulses flowing between the neurons in the physical brain. When the physical brain dies, the mind is gone. It ceases to exist.

All the evidence ever found shows this is exactly correct, and you have not a shred of evidence to claim otherwise.

the CNS has nothing to do with the spirit ...

Flora has no CNS, their spirit the same as Fauna is metaphysical the same as physiology is a metaphysical substance both of which combine in the beginning to give life to all beings.

Physiology and psychology began the evisceration of metaphysics with the end of the Dark Ages. In a similar way the development of the scientific method and the consensus it brings, combined with the academic and intellectual freedoms of the Renaissance and the Age of Enlightenment, left less and less room for literal interpretations of any creation stories.

How odd then that individuals have asked the question "why am I me" prior to the development of competing philosophical or religious perspectives. And the diversity of mutually incompatible answers to that question presented by those many different philosophical and religious perspectives should be, among other things, your first hint that there may be no actual answer to the question.

Or at least, a hint that great confidence in your own answer is probably foolish.

“Why” questions presume the intention of a volitional actor responsible for the effect being considered. If there is no volitional actor involved, there is no “why.” There is only “how.”

To get the right answers, you must first ask the right questions.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Conversely, the mind permeates every cell of the human body[

Now you are contradicting yourself. Earlier you tried to delineate mind as consciousness and not the equivalent of "brain".

Now you are redefinining "mind" as equivalent to "brain".

These parlor tricks are not going to work.

 

[BreezeWood]

The mind is not

The mind is simply one of the functions of the brain. Just as is the subconscious and the automated functions. You can no more separate it from the physical components and processes of your brain than you can separate the renal functions from the kidneys.

I can change your personality with a few ounces of ethyl alcohol. I can remove part of your forebrain and make you lose your inhibitions. I can remove part of your temporal lobe and make you forget how to speak English.

And I can remove another one of your organs amd it will affect none of this.

So yes, your mind is just part of your brain. And it dies when the brain dies. Forever. Just as you no longer perform renal functions when your kidneys die.

All the evidence ever found shows this is exactly correct, and you have not a shred of evidence to claim otherwise.

.

All the mind stuff is just the electrical impulses flowing between the neurons in the physical brain. When the physical brain dies, the mind is gone. It ceases to exist.

All the evidence ever found shows this is exactly correct, and you have not a shred of evidence to claim otherwise.

the CNS has nothing to do with the spirit ...

Flora has no CNS, their spirit the same as Fauna is metaphysical the same as physiology is a metaphysical substance both of which combine in the beginning to give life to all beings.

Well thank you for that utterly useless information.

.

Well thank you for that utterly useless information.

and what do you ascribe for their behavior, ff.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The mind is not

The mind is simply one of the functions of the brain. Just as is the subconscious and the automated functions. You can no more separate it from the physical components and processes of your brain than you can separate the renal functions from the kidneys.

I can change your personality with a few ounces of ethyl alcohol. I can remove part of your forebrain and make you lose your inhibitions. I can remove part of your temporal lobe and make you forget how to speak English.

And I can remove another one of your organs amd it will affect none of this.

So yes, your mind is just part of your brain. And it dies when the brain dies. Forever. Just as you no longer perform renal functions when your kidneys die.

All the evidence ever found shows this is exactly correct, and you have not a shred of evidence to claim otherwise.

.

All the mind stuff is just the electrical impulses flowing between the neurons in the physical brain. When the physical brain dies, the mind is gone. It ceases to exist.

All the evidence ever found shows this is exactly correct, and you have not a shred of evidence to claim otherwise.

the CNS has nothing to do with the spirit ...

Flora has no CNS, their spirit the same as Fauna is metaphysical the same as physiology is a metaphysical substance both of which combine in the beginning to give life to all beings.

Well thank you for that utterly useless information.

.

Well thank you for that utterly useless information.

and what do you ascribe for their behavior, ff.

Selection by physical laws, of course. And my explanation actually explains things and provides useful predictions. Your metaphysical hooha does neither of these things and is useless information.

That is why you have to sit around and wait for my explanation to explain things to you, then toss your metaphysical poo all over it after the fact.