What happens when the trainwreck doesn't materialize?

[Obamanation]

Am I missing the part where they identify even a single employer who's turned to those plans?

Anyway, the fact that new plans with more generous benefits are emerging in the new marketplaces without breaking the bank (i.e. exchange premiums for these plans are turning out to be much lower than expected) suggests that a path forward for both employers and consumers is emerging.

Most employers are turning to plans that offer less coverage. They have no choice. It would be awful hard to raise OOP premium expenses by 40% every year -- so they keep diminishing coverage trying to keep up with the ridiculousness they know is right around the corner.

In the medical field, we have been paying more for less coverage EVERY single year since ZERO started this disaster. The only way companies are able to keep insurance costs down is to lessen coverage --- and we still pay more every year...

That's because O-care hasn't STARTED yet, DUMBAZZ!! lol

He's Fraaaaaaaaanco American!!!

Are you for real? The instant ZEROcare passed, healthcare organizations acrossed the County started tightening their belts. First we saw layoffs, then we saw hours cut, then we saw procedure counts rise, then we saw healthcare benefits cut -- along with rate increases --- now we're seeing an increase in PAs and nurse practicioners in emergency rooms with a decrease in MDs...

You lived in a fantasty world beacuse you stupic sheeple will eat all the grass ZERO feeds you, never even lifting your head to look around and see that you are standing in your own sheeple-chit!!!

 

[jasonnfree]

Well, if by 2016, the trainwreck has not materialized, the GOP will be reminded of it daily. Not only that, but the economy continues to expand, slowly, but still moving up. Totally not what you asses predicted.

That's what the republican party is about. Fear. They have nothing else to offer and their base eats it up.

 

[asterism]

Well, if by 2016, the trainwreck has not materialized, the GOP will be reminded of it daily. Not only that, but the economy continues to expand, slowly, but still moving up. Totally not what you asses predicted.

That's what the republican party is about. Fear. They have nothing else to offer and their base eats it up.

"McCain is going to outlaw abortion."

"Ryan is going to throw grandma off the cliff."

"Romney is going to take your healthcare."

"Bush is going to cancel the election."


It seems fear isn't exclusive to the GOP.

 

[auditor0007]

If the train wreck doesn't arrive, then virtually everyone will be wrong. Reid might be especially surprised since I believe he is the first one to call Obamacare a train wreck.

The Democrats are pretty obviously messaging, lowering expectations so that reality turns out better than folks expect (e.g. the news out of the Oregon, Washington, California, etc this month that premium changes next year will range from small increases to large decreases would be good news by themselves; yet next to the predictions that have been circulating they look positively miraculous). Why the Republicans have been helping them to lower expectations I have no idea.

We already know costs are rising.

Health care costs are rising about as slowly as they ever have.

Hey, Red....some dyslexic said you were full of carp.


1. "When President Obama was selling his health care legislation to Congress, he declared that “the plan I’m proposing will cost around $900 billion over 10 years.” But with the law’s major provisions set to kick in next year, a new analysis by the Congressional Budget Officeprojects that the law will cost double that, or $1.8 trillion." CBO: Obamacare costs double to $1.8 trillion in first decade | WashingtonExaminer.com

a. "Given the risks of faster than expected health care inflation, slow growth in
incomes, and the potential for less employer-sponsored insurance in the future, there is good reason to anticipate that the cost could rise further yet." http://americanactionforum.org/site...rowing Cost of ACA Subsidies_Revised_2012.pdf



3. But this is not restricted to government costs! Private health insurance costs are also soaring, increasing by an incredible 16.4% from January 2011, when ObamaCare regulations first started going into effect, to September 2012. Bureau of Labor Statistics Data


a. Compare that to the trend in increases in healthcare expenditures:
2003 8.6%
2004 6.9%
2005 6.5%
2006 6.7%
2007 6.1%
Compare to 10.5% in 1970 and 13% in 1980
The American Spectator : Downgrading American Medical Care


b. "ObamaCare not only dramatically increased rates, but undid progress in lowering insurance costs." Lott, "At The Brink," p.9.



BTW....do you work for the administration?

I'm not buying those numbers. I have had private insurance for the past fifteen years. My premiums were increasing by double digits every single year up until the last three. These past three years I have only seen increases around 4%. Now, the increase I just received for next year is 21%, so we'll see what happens. The policies that saw those increases are for my kids as I am in the high risk pool and my rate increase was already predetermined based on my age.

My insurance agent recommended that I keep my kids on the same policy because it is grandfathered in and may prove cheaper in the long run compared to the newly mandated policies. For now, I'm just going to wait and see how this all plays out.

 

[CaféAuLait]

The GOP has been playing a very interesting game with its doomsday predictions lately. They've gone so far as to start spreading the idea--with the helpful assistance of the rightwing infotainment complex--that health insurance premiums are about to jump 400%.

But now that the actual prices for next year are starting to trickle out and aren't confirming their predictions (see: Premiums drop, coverage expands in Washington's exchange; Surprisingly low premium rates submitted for Oregon exchange; 13 insurers approved for California's exchange submit low premiums; etc), what happens?

It Looks Like Obamacare May Not Be A 'Train Wreck' After All - Business Insider

After weeks of talk about implementation "train wreck" for the Affordable Care Act, supporters of the law finally got some good news Thursday.

Insurance premiums in California's health care exchange will provide plans that range from a 2 percent increase to a 29 percent decrease in premiums, compared to current insurance rates.

Covered California, the state agency in charge of the state's health insurance exchange, announced on Thursday that the state will provide 13 insurance plans next year. Medium-level "bronze" and "silver" health insurance plans came in nearly $200 lower a month than predicted, according to the Washington Post's Sarah Kliff.

The most important part to Blumberg, however, is that premiums will cost much lower than was expected. In 2009, the Congressional Budget Office estimated that a "silver plan" would cost an average of $5,200 per year. In reality, at least in California, it will cost approximately $3,312, or $276 per month.

That leads to an interesting scenario, posed by Ezra Klein this morning as he considered some very good news for Obamacare:

Of course, California and Oregon are managing Obamacare particularly well. But the state-by-state nature of the Affordable Care Act creates really unusual political dynamics around how the law is perceived in its first year.

Imagine it’s the end of 2014. California now boasts a working, near-universal health-care system. Nothing perfect, but clearly a a success after the first year of implementation. Texas, meanwhile, is a bit of a mess. They didn’t allow the Medicaid expansion so the state’s poorest residents got nothing. They didn’t help with the exchanges, or the outreach, so there aren’t many choices, and premiums aren’t as low one might hope.

Viewed in isolation, Texas’s problems would be deadly for the law. But viewed next to California, they might mainly be a problem for the political class in Texas, which has failed to implement a clearly workable law.

It seems pretty clear that Medicaid can be a winning issue for state-level Dems next year in states that fail to expand the program. But what about exchanges, particularly in those states in which the leadership decided that the federal government could do a better job than the state at overseeing its marketplace?

If a neighboring state that opted to design and run its own exchange is seeing in some cases double digit decreases in premiums next year relative to comparable plans this year, how do residents of a state react, particularly if their federally-facilitated exchange is shall we say less than robust?

In other words, the GOP has gone all in on the doomsday prediction that Obamacare is inherently unworkable--the cracks in the facade of that claim are starting to grow pretty quickly, thanks to the outlandishness of the claims they've been making. So at what point does the effort by leaders in some states to sabotage reform in their own states begin to backfire, as their responsibility for attempting to deprive their residents of what are going to become increasingly obvious benefits comes into focus?

There seems to be a lot of agreement that Obamacare is going to be a major issue in states in the 2014 elections. I have to say, I certainly hope that's the case.

I was wondering if you read the links within many of your article which explained why the rates were a bit lower in many states? The articles clearly point out the companies are clearly underpricing to push others out of business in order to get the contracts and are expected to raise costs later which the government can't stop.

Roger Feldman, a University of Minnesota health care economist who consulted for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, says some of the lowest premiums in Oregon appear unreasonably low. "They're underpricing," he said.

The low premiums have sparked other insurers to revise theirs. On Friday, Providence Health Plan proposed 15 percent lower premiums. Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of the Northwest seeks 10 percent lower premiums.

A Providence spokesman attributed its request to an error in cost projections, while Kaiser declined to comment.

The unusual move by insurers to lower requested rates has sparked attention around the country.

But letting insurers engage in do-overs could spell trouble in future years, says economist Feldman, who studies health care competitive bidding.

"There's absolutely no reason why a plan wouldn't send in a high bid testing the water -- and then later on, if they can cut the bid, go ahead and do that," he said. "Then the state is in a pickle."

The long-term result could be negotiations and higher rates, he said: "Ultimately, it's going to be the consumer who loses out."

Oregon's 2014 health premium filings spark relief, questions | OregonLive.com

Yet another one of your links says this:

Oregon and Washington both appear to be benefiting from heavy competition, though both states had that even before Obamacare

 

[Greenbeard]

I was wondering if you read the links within many of your article which explained why the rates were a bit lower in many states? The articles clearly point out the companies are clearly underpricing to push others out of business in order to get the contracts and are expected to raise costs later which the government can't stop.

You're reading that backwards. When Oregon's proposed premiums rates were released publicly, Providence Health Plan and Family Care Health Plan both asked to refile their rates to revise them downward

Providence Health Plan on Wednesday asked to lower its requested rates by 15 percent. Gary Walker, a Providence spokesman, says the "primary driver" was a realization that the plan's cost projections were incorrect. But he conceded a desire to be competitive was part of it.

A Family Care Health Plans official on Thursday said the insurer will ask the state for even greater decrease in requested rates. CEO Jeff Heatherington says the company realized its analysts were too pessimistic after seeing online that its proposed premiums were the highest.

Feldman's criticism is that Oregon's exchange shouldn't allow insurers to do this because in future years it will encourage insurers to submit artificially high premium numbers (as these two, with their "incorrect" or "pessimistic" projections, may well have done) to begin, knowing they can always revise downward later if they see that their competitors haven't followed suit. In other words, it could develop into a sort of indirect collusion that allows them to remain above the minimum price point they ought to be aiming for.

That's how allowing insurers to revise downward could raise costs in the future--he's right that in the future Oregon needs to reconsider whether they want to allow do-overs (I don't know that any other exchange has allowed anything else like this to occur).

That said, once these current proposed rates are approved by the state (assuming they're actuarially sound, etc) this summer, they're locked in. These are the prices insurers will be selling at during open enrollment, October of this year through March of next year. They can't change prices until they go through this process again for the next rate filing for next year's open enrollment, which is for 2015 plan offerings.

Yet another one of your links says this:

Oregon and Washington both appear to be benefiting from heavy competition, though both states had that even before Obamacare

Competition is the name of the game in the exchanges. That's why this is working so well thus far.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The GOP has been playing a very interesting game with its doomsday predictions lately. They've gone so far as to start spreading the idea--with the helpful assistance of the rightwing infotainment complex--that health insurance premiums are about to jump 400%.

A very sad and partisan game, actually, risking the health and welfare of millions of Americans.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The GOP has been playing a very interesting game with its doomsday predictions lately. They've gone so far as to start spreading the idea--with the helpful assistance of the rightwing infotainment complex--that health insurance premiums are about to jump 400%.

A very sad and partisan game, actually, risking the health and welfare of millions of Americans.

The IRS will make sure everyone gets their healthcare, right?

 

[blackhawk]

Here is the million dollar question for the left what if Obamacare does become the train wreck some are predicting? Just like to point out the train wreck terminology is now starting to be used by Democrats as well.

 

[Antares]

I am just going to laugh at you Greenie, you NEED this to go right.

The problem for you is that it won't...and even your side is admitting it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The Democrats are pretty obviously messaging, lowering expectations so that reality turns out better than folks expect (e.g. the news out of the Oregon, Washington, California, etc this month that premium changes next year will range from small increases to large decreases would be good news by themselves; yet next to the predictions that have been circulating they look positively miraculous). Why the Republicans have been helping them to lower expectations I have no idea.



Health care costs are rising about as slowly as they ever have.

Hey, Red....some dyslexic said you were full of carp.


1. "When President Obama was selling his health care legislation to Congress, he declared that “the plan I’m proposing will cost around $900 billion over 10 years.” But with the law’s major provisions set to kick in next year, a new analysis by the Congressional Budget Officeprojects that the law will cost double that, or $1.8 trillion." CBO: Obamacare costs double to $1.8 trillion in first decade | WashingtonExaminer.com

a. "Given the risks of faster than expected health care inflation, slow growth in
incomes, and the potential for less employer-sponsored insurance in the future, there is good reason to anticipate that the cost could rise further yet." http://americanactionforum.org/site...rowing Cost of ACA Subsidies_Revised_2012.pdf



3. But this is not restricted to government costs! Private health insurance costs are also soaring, increasing by an incredible 16.4% from January 2011, when ObamaCare regulations first started going into effect, to September 2012. Bureau of Labor Statistics Data


a. Compare that to the trend in increases in healthcare expenditures:
2003 8.6%
2004 6.9%
2005 6.5%
2006 6.7%
2007 6.1%
Compare to 10.5% in 1970 and 13% in 1980
The American Spectator : Downgrading American Medical Care


b. "ObamaCare not only dramatically increased rates, but undid progress in lowering insurance costs." Lott, "At The Brink," p.9.



BTW....do you work for the administration?

I'm not buying those numbers. I have had private insurance for the past fifteen years. My premiums were increasing by double digits every single year up until the last three. These past three years I have only seen increases around 4%. Now, the increase I just received for next year is 21%, so we'll see what happens. The policies that saw those increases are for my kids as I am in the high risk pool and my rate increase was already predetermined based on my age.

My insurance agent recommended that I keep my kids on the same policy because it is grandfathered in and may prove cheaper in the long run compared to the newly mandated policies. For now, I'm just going to wait and see how this all plays out.

Do the math yourself: http://www.bw.edu/academics/bus/programs/hcmba/nl/costs/HealthCareCosts07-_April_2007.pdf

 

[Crackerjaxon]

That's the democrat idea of good news. Prices aren't going up as fast as we feared. Victory.

 

[PoliticalChic]

.Year *NHE Increase

2001 1493

2002 1638 9.7%

2003 1775 8.3%

2004 1901 7.0%

2005 2030 6.7%

2006 2163 6.5%

2007 2298 6.2%

2008 2406 4.6%

2009 2501 3.9%

2010 2600 3.9%

2011 2700 3.8%

*National Health Expenditures, in $ billions.
http://www.cms.gov/Research-Statist...NationalHealthExpendData/Downloads/tables.pdf


I just did the math.

Clearly, the increases were trending in the opposite direction that Obama swore they were
in order to get ObamaCare passed.

 

[deltex1]

The train wreck has already happened...only the victims have suffered as yet...the rest await the scumbag lawyers and pols to sort out the facts.

 

[EriktheRed]

Competition is the name of the game in the exchanges. That's why this is working so well thus far.

Which kinda begs the question: why are the people who are usually the most vocal proponents of competition having a problem with this?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Competition is the name of the game in the exchanges. That's why this is working so well thus far.

Which kinda begs the question: why are the people who are usually the most vocal proponents of competition having a problem with this?

The fact the Obama lied about the costs, entrusted Lois Lerner with it's implementation, and the fact he forced it down the people's throat. There isn't any competition, just something to cripple the healthcare industry. If all the insurance companies are forced to charge the same premiums and co-pays.. that might just put a few of them out of business and a few million of them off of coverage, sending them hurtling into the waiting claws of government healthcare.

 

[whitehall]

Wait until IRS thugs come knocking on your door demanding compliance with regulations that stand ten feet high. You will wish you were in a train wreck.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Oh no, no train wreck. How can this be?

More wise words from a partisan hack

 

[buckeye45_73]

The GOP has been playing a very interesting game with its doomsday predictions lately. They've gone so far as to start spreading the idea--with the helpful assistance of the rightwing infotainment complex--that health insurance premiums are about to jump 400%.

A very sad and partisan game, actually, risking the health and welfare of millions of Americans.

No kiddng, homocrats shouldnt have rammed this bill through

 

[Antares]

Competition is the name of the game in the exchanges. That's why this is working so well thus far.

This makes Greenie no more than an abject liar.

The exchanges dictate what a "qualified plan" is.

They also dictate.....

Premiums.
Coverages.
....and Greenie knows it.

You are a lying sack of shit Greenie.