What happens when the trainwreck doesn't materialize?

[jknowgood]

Here is the million dollar question for the left what if Obamacare does become the train wreck some are predicting? Just like to point out the train wreck terminology is now starting to be used by Democrats as well.

WMD's and the rest of bush/cheney was the real train wreck in case you were still in grade school in 2008.

Compared to obama's failures bush is looking pretty good.

 

[Greenbeard]

So what?...They still won't be playing the stupid exchange game.

Yet thirteen of their competitors will be playing that stupid game.

Hence premiums coming in substantially lower than expected for California's consumers.

 

[Contumacious]

The GOP has been playing a very interesting game with its doomsday predictions lately. They've gone so far as to start spreading the idea--with the helpful assistance of the rightwing infotainment complex--that health insurance premiums are about to jump 400%.

.

Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Even though the nation is 17 TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTrillion in the hole

and every single government financed and managed IN THE FUCKING WORLD is bankrupt, you are predicting that ours will be different..........

Go fig

.

 

[Seawytch]

I wonder, is there a reason you didn't post this link?

UnitedHealth, Aetna and Cigna opt out of California insurance exchange - latimes.com

I wonder if you read it?

UnitedHealth, the nation's largest private insurer, Aetna Inc. and Cigna Corp. are sitting out the first year of Covered California,[...]

UnitedHealth, Aetna and Cigna are small players now in California's individual health insurance market. More of their business is focused on large employers, where most Californians receive their health coverage.

So what?...They still won't be playing the stupid exchange game.

What do these big insurers know that you don't?

They won't be in the individual market...the one that must start soon. The group market has a couple more years. Those insurers are large employer insurers.

 

[blackhawk]

Here is the million dollar question for the left what if Obamacare does become the train wreck some are predicting? Just like to point out the train wreck terminology is now starting to be used by Democrats as well.

WMD's and the whole bush/cheney act was the real train wreck in case you were still in grade school in 2008. Things are better now, which is what really stirs up the anger on this republican and racist infested forum. Obama, for all his faults, is better than bush.

What does this idiot response of yours have to with Obamacare?

 

[Antares]

Tell the board what the exchange term is for a Plan that is sold through them Greenie.

So what?...They still won't be playing the stupid exchange game.

Yet thirteen of their competitors will be playing that stupid game.

Hence premiums coming in substantially lower than expected for California's consumers.

 

[Oddball]

So what?...They still won't be playing the stupid exchange game.

Yet thirteen of their competitors will be playing that stupid game.

For now.

The biggest players dropped out...They obviously know something.

 

[lynn63]

United Healthcare Medicaid HMO capitated plan is already established in states - Az, CA, CO, CT, ILL, Mass, MN, MT, NV, OH, OR, and RI. Only the new enrollees will be a part of the exchange and will not affect the ones already enrolled.

However, United Healthcare covers a high percentage of Arizona's population so it makes sense that they are also on the exchange here in Arizona. The difference between California and Arizona is Arizona has a higher population that is covered through employment while California's population has half through employment and the other half by the government.

 

[Trajan]

Business Insider is run by Henry Blodget, who is very left-leaning.

In the real world, the Obama administration is in a panic over the delays in setting up exchanges (computer software is hard!) and getting people enrolled. For the latter, they have a $58 per head bounty for former ACORN organizers to sign up enrollees.

The results of the early launch for "pre-exisiting" condition coverage are telling. Far less enrollees with the cost per enrollee being multiple times more than estimated. This is the prequel to the larger program. The only people who have an incentive to sign up are the already sick. And the costs for them will be much higher than planned.

And now we have the IRS fracas...which is putting a spotlight on the types of people who are going to be our financial overlords to get access.

if I recall they have blown thru that money already, thats why Sibelius is doing something not quite legal, shes lobbying people she will be regulating for 'donations'.


CLASS is dead and, well, only someone who is truly demented or a died in the wool drone believes that access/quality won't suffer, it will drop for the upper 40-50% as vaporous succor towards 'better' access and care for the lower 10-20%........this will end up worse than Medicare, its larger than the economy of France and the gov. is going to run it? ....

 

[Trajan]

Oh no, no train wreck. How can this be?

The train wreck is already here, it's the IRS, the group to enforce this Workers Paradise of a Law, going after conservative groups

Which has nothing to do with the ACA. Your point?

sure it does, just imagine for a moment the prgms being run by the same type of folks we have at the IRS and other federal depts....I see it up close, everyday, its a nightmare walking....

 

[Trajan]

The GOP has been playing a very interesting game with its doomsday predictions lately. They've gone so far as to start spreading the idea--with the helpful assistance of the rightwing infotainment complex--that health insurance premiums are about to jump 400%.

But now that the actual prices for next year are starting to trickle out and aren't confirming their predictions (see: Premiums drop, coverage expands in Washington's exchange; Surprisingly low premium rates submitted for Oregon exchange; 13 insurers approved for California's exchange submit low premiums; etc), what happens?

It Looks Like Obamacare May Not Be A 'Train Wreck' After All - Business Insider

After weeks of talk about implementation "train wreck" for the Affordable Care Act, supporters of the law finally got some good news Thursday.

Insurance premiums in California's health care exchange will provide plans that range from a 2 percent increase to a 29 percent decrease in premiums, compared to current insurance rates.

Covered California, the state agency in charge of the state's health insurance exchange, announced on Thursday that the state will provide 13 insurance plans next year. Medium-level "bronze" and "silver" health insurance plans came in nearly $200 lower a month than predicted, according to the Washington Post's Sarah Kliff.

The most important part to Blumberg, however, is that premiums will cost much lower than was expected. In 2009, the Congressional Budget Office estimated that a "silver plan" would cost an average of $5,200 per year. In reality, at least in California, it will cost approximately $3,312, or $276 per month.

That leads to an interesting scenario, posed by Ezra Klein this morning as he considered some very good news for Obamacare:

Of course, California and Oregon are managing Obamacare particularly well. But the state-by-state nature of the Affordable Care Act creates really unusual political dynamics around how the law is perceived in its first year.

Imagine it’s the end of 2014. California now boasts a working, near-universal health-care system. Nothing perfect, but clearly a a success after the first year of implementation. Texas, meanwhile, is a bit of a mess. They didn’t allow the Medicaid expansion so the state’s poorest residents got nothing. They didn’t help with the exchanges, or the outreach, so there aren’t many choices, and premiums aren’t as low one might hope.

Viewed in isolation, Texas’s problems would be deadly for the law. But viewed next to California, they might mainly be a problem for the political class in Texas, which has failed to implement a clearly workable law.

It seems pretty clear that Medicaid can be a winning issue for state-level Dems next year in states that fail to expand the program. But what about exchanges, particularly in those states in which the leadership decided that the federal government could do a better job than the state at overseeing its marketplace?

If a neighboring state that opted to design and run its own exchange is seeing in some cases double digit decreases in premiums next year relative to comparable plans this year, how do residents of a state react, particularly if their federally-facilitated exchange is shall we say less than robust?

In other words, the GOP has gone all in on the doomsday prediction that Obamacare is inherently unworkable--the cracks in the facade of that claim are starting to grow pretty quickly, thanks to the outlandishness of the claims they've been making. So at what point does the effort by leaders in some states to sabotage reform in their own states begin to backfire, as their responsibility for attempting to deprive their residents of what are going to become increasingly obvious benefits comes into focus?

There seems to be a lot of agreement that Obamacare is going to be a major issue in states in the 2014 elections. I have to say, I certainly hope that's the case.

for you the trainwreck won't ever materialize no matter what comes, you'll do what you do now and have been since I first saw your posts 3-4 years ago at other sites and now here.....

you'll dance and dance , skip questions that you simply cannot answer, then the big one- the likes of you , thats the loony left will claim that just one more push , just one more cash infusion and more control will make the difference in the face of the bloat and Medicare replay as in cost overruns starts in earnest and cannot be massaged away, no matter how servile the press is, and no matter how much you deny access/services etc..................... and when the gop (if they have the house or senate) says no, you'll lay it all on them........wash, rinse, repeat.


Doomsday? max baucas coined it as a coming trainwreck .....

 

[Antares]

Greenie is just another coward refusing to answer legitimate questions he knows the answers to.

He knows full well that he is lying through his teeth about "competition".

I call you out as the liar you are Greenie...did you want to set me straight?

 

[Seawytch]

So what?...They still won't be playing the stupid exchange game.

Yet thirteen of their competitors will be playing that stupid game.

For now.

The biggest players dropped out...They obviously know something.

No, the biggest players have not "dropped out". The biggest players in the individual market are in the individual market exchange. Companies like Aetna are large company insurers...as I've already said.

 

[Oddball]

Uh-huh...And they said "fuck this noise".

Why would they purposefully turn their backs to potential customers?

 

[Seawytch]

Uh-huh...And they said "fuck this noise".

Why would they purposefully turn their backs to potential customers?

What customers? Large companies, like they insure, won't be looking to the exchanges...which are for individuals. All the "big players" in individual insurance are on the exchange.

 

[Greenbeard]

you'll dance and dance , skip questions that you simply cannot answer, then the big one- the likes of you , thats the loony left will claim that just one more push , just one more cash infusion and more control will make the difference in the face of the bloat and Medicare replay as in cost overruns starts in earnest and cannot be massaged away, no matter how servile the press is, and no matter how much you deny access/services etc..................... and when the gop (if they have the house or senate) says no, you'll lay it all on them........wash, rinse, repeat.

You're in for a very pleasant surprise. In fact, as a Californian so you already got one this week. Congratulations!

He knows full well that he is lying through his teeth about "competition".

Read the news sometime.

Premiums drop, coverage expands in Washington's exchange

Despite predictions of rate shocks, most consumers in Washington state will actually see lower premiums and enhanced coverage when they buy insurance through the state's health insurance exchange.

Two Oregon insurers rethink 2014 premiums as state posts first-ever rate comparison

On Thursday, a comparison of proposed 2014 health premiums became public online, causing two insurers to request do-overs to lower their rates even before the state determines whether they're justified.

The unusual development was sparked by a comparison that used to be impossible because plan benefits varied so widely. But under the federal reforms that take effect Jan. 1, health insurance is mandated and every insurer must offer certain standard plans . . .

Providence Health Plan on Wednesday asked to lower its requested rates by 15 percent. Gary Walker, a Providence spokesman, says the "primary driver" was a realization that the plan's cost projections were incorrect. But he conceded a desire to be competitive was part of it.

A Family Care Health Plans official on Thursday said the insurer will ask the state for even greater decrease in requested rates. CEO Jeff Heatherington says the company realized its analysts were too pessimistic after seeing online that its proposed premiums were the highest.

"That was my question when I saw the rates was, 'Can we go in and refile these?'" he said. "We're going to try to get these to a competitive range."

Division of Insurance Reviewing Hundreds of New Health Insurance Plans

Denver – The Colorado Division of Insurance is reviewing hundreds of proposed new health insurance plans designed to offer coverage to consumers and small businesses starting January 1, 2014. The new plans must meet certain federal requirements for benefits and premiums, as outlined in the Affordable Care Act (ACA). This includes health plans sold through Connect for Health Colorado, the state’s new health insurance marketplace. It opens on October 1, 2013, offering plans that begin in 2014.

Health insurance carriers had until May 15 to submit their plans for review. A total of 17 carriers submitted a combined total of 813 health plans for the individual and small group markets. These will be sold through Connect for Health Colorado, as well as outside of the new marketplace.

ObamaCare plans cheaper than expected in key rate filing

New insurance policies under President Obama's healthcare law will cost significantly less than expected in California.

The state released rate filings Thursday for the policies that will be sold through the health law's insurance exchange. Experts had been especially eager to see California's rates, and it is the first large state to release price information for next year.

What customers? Large companies, like they insure, won't be looking to the exchanges...which are for individuals. All the "big players" in individual insurance are on the exchange.

I don't think he knows what the individual market is. But trying to give libertarians basic lessons about how the world actually works is generally not a good use of time.

 

[EriktheRed]

Greenie is just another coward refusing to answer legitimate questions he knows the answers to.

He knows full well that he is lying through his teeth about "competition".

I call you out as the liar you are Greenie...did you want to set me straight?

He's backing up what he's arguing with numbers and sources and they're not all ones that can be credibly claimed as "partisan".

What do you and Trajan have besides ad hom attacks? What questions aren't being answered by him?

 

[Antares]

Oh Greenie, you can fool these others with your obfuscation but not me.

Now the question before you is what does the exchange CALL a plan that they approved to sell?

Erik pay attention you will get an education here. (If Greenie mans up)

you'll dance and dance , skip questions that you simply cannot answer, then the big one- the likes of you , thats the loony left will claim that just one more push , just one more cash infusion and more control will make the difference in the face of the bloat and Medicare replay as in cost overruns starts in earnest and cannot be massaged away, no matter how servile the press is, and no matter how much you deny access/services etc..................... and when the gop (if they have the house or senate) says no, you'll lay it all on them........wash, rinse, repeat.

You're in for a very pleasant surprise. In fact, as a Californian so you already got one this week. Congratulations!

He knows full well that he is lying through his teeth about "competition".

Read the news sometime.

Premiums drop, coverage expands in Washington's exchange


Two Oregon insurers rethink 2014 premiums as state posts first-ever rate comparison


Division of Insurance Reviewing Hundreds of New Health Insurance Plans


ObamaCare plans cheaper than expected in key rate filing

New insurance policies under President Obama's healthcare law will cost significantly less than expected in California.

The state released rate filings Thursday for the policies that will be sold through the health law's insurance exchange. Experts had been especially eager to see California's rates, and it is the first large state to release price information for next year.

What customers? Large companies, like they insure, won't be looking to the exchanges...which are for individuals. All the "big players" in individual insurance are on the exchange.

I don't think he knows what the individual market is. But trying to give libertarians basic lessons about how the world actually works is generally not a good use of time.

 

[Greenbeard]

Oh Greenie, you can fool these others with your obfuscation but not me.

Obfuscation? Premiums and the number of choices available to shoppers are what we're talking about.

The states that are actually trying to implement the ACA have attracted a number of competing plans, and the premium bids from insurers are coming in lower than expected (in some cases, lower than current premiums in the state, despite more robust benefit packages and new consumer protections).

People in those states will have lots of plans to choose from. Prices are now meaningful, since standardization has allowed for comparisons between plans, and that's generating new competition that's keeping premiums down (California's average silver plan is nearly $2,000 below what the CBO thought it would be when they calculated the cost of the law). Markets are now beginning to work. And if that's leaving a bitter taste in your mouth, maybe you should re-evaluate what it is you believe in.

 

[EriktheRed]

Now the question before you is what does the exchange CALL a plan that they approved to sell?

http://www.healthexchange.ca.gov/Pages/Default.aspx


At that link they call it "The California Health Benefit Exchange".

Is "benefit" the word you're thinking of?