What happens when the trainwreck doesn't materialize?

[Antares]

Yes, obfuscation.

YOU brought up "competition", lets talk about it.

NOW, any plan approved to be sold through the exchanges is called what?


Erik you should know I have asked Greenie through Private Message to answer these questions...he is hiding from the truth which I know that HE full well knows

Oh Greenie, you can fool these others with your obfuscation but not me.

Obfuscation? Premiums and the number of choices available to shoppers are what we're talking about.

The states that are actually trying to implement the ACA have attracted a number of competing plans, and the premium bids from insurers are coming in lower than expected (in some cases, lower than current premiums in the state, despite more robust benefit packages and new consumer protections).

People in those states will have lots of plans to choose from. Prices are now meaningful, since standardization has allowed for comparisons between plans, and that's generating new competition that's keeping premiums down (California's average silver plan is nearly $2,000 below what the CBO thought it would be when they calculated the cost of the law). Markets are now beginning to work. And if that's leaving a bitter taste in your mouth, maybe you should re-evaluate what it is you believe in.

 

[Antares]

No Erik, "benefit" is not the word I am thinking of

Greenie knows what it is but he knows where the answer will lead and he fears it.

 

[Seawytch]

NOW, any plan approved to be sold through the exchanges is called what?

Insurance.

 

[Antares]

(smile) No, it is called a "Qualified Health Plan", Greenie knows where the line of questioning is going therefore he runs.

Now Greenie....how does a health plan" become a QUALIFIED HEALTH PLAN?

NOW, any plan approved to be sold through the exchanges is called what?

Insurance.

 

[Meister]

you'll dance and dance , skip questions that you simply cannot answer, then the big one- the likes of you , thats the loony left will claim that just one more push , just one more cash infusion and more control will make the difference in the face of the bloat and Medicare replay as in cost overruns starts in earnest and cannot be massaged away, no matter how servile the press is, and no matter how much you deny access/services etc..................... and when the gop (if they have the house or senate) says no, you'll lay it all on them........wash, rinse, repeat.

You're in for a very pleasant surprise. In fact, as a Californian so you already got one this week. Congratulations!

He knows full well that he is lying through his teeth about "competition".

Read the news sometime.

Premiums drop, coverage expands in Washington's exchange


Two Oregon insurers rethink 2014 premiums as state posts first-ever rate comparison


Division of Insurance Reviewing Hundreds of New Health Insurance Plans


ObamaCare plans cheaper than expected in key rate filing

New insurance policies under President Obama's healthcare law will cost significantly less than expected in California.

The state released rate filings Thursday for the policies that will be sold through the health law's insurance exchange. Experts had been especially eager to see California's rates, and it is the first large state to release price information for next year.

What customers? Large companies, like they insure, won't be looking to the exchanges...which are for individuals. All the "big players" in individual insurance are on the exchange.

I don't think he knows what the individual market is. But trying to give libertarians basic lessons about how the world actually works is generally not a good use of time.

600,000 will see a decrease in premiums by offsetting with a subsidy.
1.4 million who get California Coverage won't qualify to get a subsidy.
1.3 million with higher incomes will have a substantial increase.

Premium costs could fall below the projections in the study, Lee noted, if Covered California is able to enroll large numbers of healthy people.
Health insurance premiums to drop dramatically for many Californians, rise for others next year, study reveals - San Jose Mercury News


After reading the article, it sounds more like cherry picking the numbers to sell the package. go figure.....

 

[Trajan]

Greenie is just another coward refusing to answer legitimate questions he knows the answers to.

He knows full well that he is lying through his teeth about "competition".

I call you out as the liar you are Greenie...did you want to set me straight?

He's backing up what he's arguing with numbers and sources and they're not all ones that can be credibly claimed as "partisan".

What do you and Trajan have besides ad hom attacks? What questions aren't being answered by him?

we've had this out plenty of times, ask him, I asked him oh 2 years ago here to answer several questions as tbis thing was going forward, he said he wouldn't....

and as far as ad homs go, theres plenty in there to chew on other than my accurate description of his mindset, thats been established too.

here are some I'll throw out there;

is obamacare still deficit neutral?

will I be able to keep my current healthcare plan?

will it get more expensive?

will I have the same access?

same doctor?

 

[Seawytch]

(smile) No, it is called a "Qualified Health Plan", Greenie knows where the line of questioning is going therefore he runs.

Now Greenie....how does a health plan" become a QUALIFIED HEALTH PLAN?

NOW, any plan approved to be sold through the exchanges is called what?

Insurance.

By meeting the standards of the ACA for coverage. Duh.

Do you not know how to use the quote function properly or is this a personal choice to annoy?

 

[Antares]

Sweetie you are up to speed, don't try to pretend you are.

(smile) No, it is called a "Qualified Health Plan", Greenie knows where the line of questioning is going therefore he runs.

Now Greenie....how does a health plan" become a QUALIFIED HEALTH PLAN?

Insurance.

By meeting the standards of the ACA for coverage. Duh.

Do you not know how to use the quote function properly or is this a personal choice to annoy?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

What happens when the trainwreck doesn't materialize?

Answer: The R lies.

Besides running the debt up with their phony vote to repeal, that's all they've done: lie.

Even if it were true that the ObamaCare is a train wreck (and we ALL know its not), what is most important is NOT the welfare and well being of their constituents. All that matter to the GObP/t-pubs is to 1) hurt Obama and, 2) give more money to the 1%.

When Medicare/Medicaid were first enacted, there were huge glitches and problems. The Congress worked to together and, as we ALL know now, both have been enormously successful and cost-effective.

The R will fight against US citizens having the same access to the same health care system we pay for Congress to have because they are treasonous and anti-American traitors.

And, the rw's lies will fill in the gaps left by the R.

 

[EriktheRed]

Greenie is just another coward refusing to answer legitimate questions he knows the answers to.

He knows full well that he is lying through his teeth about "competition".

I call you out as the liar you are Greenie...did you want to set me straight?

He's backing up what he's arguing with numbers and sources and they're not all ones that can be credibly claimed as "partisan".

What do you and Trajan have besides ad hom attacks? What questions aren't being answered by him?

we've had this out plenty of times, ask him, I asked him oh 2 years ago here to answer several questions as tbis thing was going forward, he said he wouldn't....

and as far as ad homs go, theres plenty in there to chew on other than my accurate description of his mindset, thats been established too.

here are some I'll throw out there;

is obamacare still deficit neutral?

will I be able to keep my current healthcare plan?

will it get more expensive?

will I have the same access?

same doctor?

Well, as much as he comes on here to talk about the law, it's not like it's incumbent on him to answer those questions for you, is it? If you know the answers yourself, then don't be coy...share with the class.


Same goes for Roo.

 

[Greenbeard]

00,000 will see a decrease in premiums by offsetting with a subsidy.
1.4 million who get California Coverage won't qualify to get a subsidy.
1.3 million with higher incomes will have a substantial increase.

Premium costs could fall below the projections in the study, Lee noted, if Covered California is able to enroll large numbers of healthy people.

Funny thing about the projections--they were wrong. The actual premiums insurers are requesting for next year in California have now been released (last week) and they're lower than pessimistic projectors thought they'd be. As they've proved to be in Washington and Oregon.

Hence the point of the thread. Live in the now.

 

[Greenbeard]

is obamacare still deficit neutral?

It's more than deficit neutral; the slowing of health care spending alone has paid for the next decade of ACA spending, even before the new revenues are accounted for. That was unexpected but it's happening.

will I be able to keep my current healthcare plan?

What's your current plan and who decides whether you buy it or not? You or your employer?

will it get more expensive?

Milk will get more expensive. That's the world we live in. The question is how premium growth will compare to wage growth. The results thus far are very promising.

will I have the same access?

same doctor?

Your doctor has autonomy to choose to accept whichever insurers he likes from one year to the next; that's how multi-payer systems work. If he doesn't like Aetna next year, choose Blue Cross. Or ask your boss.

 

[Antares]

Poor Greenie.

The sad thing is is you know and I know that we have discussed this ad nauseum.

Greenie is a liar by omission.

00,000 will see a decrease in premiums by offsetting with a subsidy.
1.4 million who get California Coverage won't qualify to get a subsidy.
1.3 million with higher incomes will have a substantial increase.

Premium costs could fall below the projections in the study, Lee noted, if Covered California is able to enroll large numbers of healthy people.

Funny thing about the projections--they were wrong. The actual premiums insurers are requesting for next year in California have now been released (last week) and they're lower than pessimistic projectors thought they'd be. As they've proved to be in Washington and Oregon.

Hence the point of the thread. Live in the now.

 

[Antares]

Look, Greenie is lying to you.

Only QHP's can be sold through the Exchanges.

To BE a QHP you MUST meet the standards set forth by said Exchange...as Greenie said 3 tiers of plans ALL covering the same things.....and they ALL have to charge the same premiums.

Here is the rub, only TWO types of people claim that 15 companies providing the same coverages and charging the SAME premium (as dictated by the Exchange) is "competition...the first is a stupid person.

The second is Greenie, a fucking liar.

He's backing up what he's arguing with numbers and sources and they're not all ones that can be credibly claimed as "partisan".

What do you and Trajan have besides ad hom attacks? What questions aren't being answered by him?

we've had this out plenty of times, ask him, I asked him oh 2 years ago here to answer several questions as tbis thing was going forward, he said he wouldn't....

and as far as ad homs go, theres plenty in there to chew on other than my accurate description of his mindset, thats been established too.

here are some I'll throw out there;

is obamacare still deficit neutral?

will I be able to keep my current healthcare plan?

will it get more expensive?

will I have the same access?

same doctor?

Well, as much as he comes on here to talk about the law, it's not like it's incumbent on him to answer those questions for you, is it? If you know the answers yourself, then don't be coy...share with the class.


Same goes for Roo.

 

[EriktheRed]

Look, Greenie is lying to you.

Only QHP's can be sold through the Exchanges.

To BE a QHP you MUST meet the standards set forth by said Exchange...as Greenie said 3 tiers of plans ALL covering the same things.....and they ALL have to charge the same premiums.

Here is the rub, only TWO types of people claim that 15 companies providing the same coverages and charging the SAME premium (as dictated by the Exchange) is "competition...the first is a stupid person.

Thw econd is Greenie, a fucking lisr.

we've had this out plenty of times, ask him, I asked him oh 2 years ago here to answer several questions as tbis thing was going forward, he said he wouldn't....

and as far as ad homs go, theres plenty in there to chew on other than my accurate description of his mindset, thats been established too.

here are some I'll throw out there;

is obamacare still deficit neutral?

will I be able to keep my current healthcare plan?

will it get more expensive?

will I have the same access?

same doctor?

Well, as much as he comes on here to talk about the law, it's not like it's incumbent on him to answer those questions for you, is it? If you know the answers yourself, then don't be coy...share with the class.


Same goes for Roo.

Ah, we're getting somewhere now.

So what you appear to be saying is that calling it "competition" is inaccurrate if the terms are dictated in advance by those setting up the exchanges, i.e. the gov't.

 

[Greenbeard]

To BE a QHP you MUST meet the standards set forth by said Exchange...as Greenie said 3 tiers of plans ALL covering the same things.....and they ALL have to charge the same premiums.

Are you an idiot (don't answer, rhetorical question)? Every insurer charges different premiums for their plans.

A 40-year-old in Modoc County can buy Anthem's bronze PPO plan for $234, Blue Shield's bronze EPO for $266, Kaiser Permanente's bronze HMO for $261, etc.

This is even more embarrassing than the time you claimed there's a public option because you don't know how to use THOMAS. Buy a fucking clue.

 

[francoHFW]

How hilarious are the fear mongered, brainwashed ARROGANT lol dupes of the greedy idiot rich. Never ceases to amaze...

 

[MeBelle]

Imagine it’s the end of 2014. California now boasts a working, near-universal health-care system. Nothing perfect, but clearly a a success after the first year of implementation. Texas, meanwhile, is a bit of a mess. They didn’t allow the Medicaid expansion so the state’s poorest residents got nothing.

More and more Doctors are not taking Medicaid pts.
What prevents Doctors from refusing to take any other kind of insurance?

My Dentist takes one program offered by Delta, but won't doesn't take other Delta programs.

Yo bumping! Answer please.

 

[EriktheRed]

Imagine it’s the end of 2014. California now boasts a working, near-universal health-care system. Nothing perfect, but clearly a a success after the first year of implementation. Texas, meanwhile, is a bit of a mess. They didn’t allow the Medicaid expansion so the state’s poorest residents got nothing.

More and more Doctors are not taking Medicaid pts.
What prevents Doctors from refusing to take any other kind of insurance?

My Dentist takes one program offered by Delta, but won't doesn't take other Delta programs.

Yo bumping! Answer please.

From another thread:

Why isn't this done more often?

People can still pay with insurance - just send them the receipts afterward.

Way, way too simple for the Brave New World Obama wants us in today, maybe.

If the doctor does not accept insurance, that means you would have to file your insurance claims yourself. And if you tried that, you would find out EXACTLY why this is not done more often.

So go ahead. Try it. And good luck with that.

 

[Greenbeard]

Imagine it’s the end of 2014. California now boasts a working, near-universal health-care system. Nothing perfect, but clearly a a success after the first year of implementation. Texas, meanwhile, is a bit of a mess. They didn’t allow the Medicaid expansion so the state’s poorest residents got nothing.

More and more Doctors are not taking Medicaid pts.
What prevents Doctors from refusing to take any other kind of insurance?

My Dentist takes one program offered by Delta, but won't doesn't take other Delta programs.

Yo bumping! Answer please.

Medicaid primary care rates are rising, on average, 73% this year, courtesy of the ACA. Good for access.

That said, most of Medicaid is privatized--they'll figure it out, right?