What happens when the trainwreck doesn't materialize?

[EriktheRed]

what difference does it make

If your employer is buying, then the insurance plan he chooses for you can change for any reason at all. He could even fire you! And then you won't have any coverage at all.

You pay what he chooses to make you contribute, regardless of what your plan actually costs. You get the providers in the network he chooses.

So I'm asking: who's making the decisions about what you're buying and what you're getting? If it's not you, then none of your questions can be answered by anyone other than the person actually shopping for coverage.

If you want specific answers about your coverage, then you're going to have to reveal more about it. Who's selling it, who's buying it, where is this happening, what does it cover, and where can one read the terms and conditions associated with it? I'm not your personal financial advisor but if you want individualized advice I'm going to need a lot more information.

I don't see why you need all of those qualifiers, if obamacare had not come along we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we?

no, well, actually I do know you need all of those qualifiers, because you cannot provide a forthright answer; I am not talking about the normal course of events that may or may not have occurred, that is not germane at all to this conversation, I am talking about changes that will occur due to obamacare.

You cannot claim nor use as protection, that 'hey shit could have changed anyway so what difference does it make' smokescreen, that won't wash.


my access, cost ( aside from the usual incremental bump) nor quality should change a wit due to obamacare- true or false?

Is the point you're trying to make here that change in your coverage will occur as a result of the ACA?

 

[Trajan]

is that a yes, or no?








what difference does it make, don't try that shit on me, if obamacare like a pinball bounces round and makes my present coverage and cost change, then? its changed due to obamacare, thats what we are discussing. What was promised?





herrrrre we go......


again, you want to play that? fine we'll start another marathon clarification session, you can avoid trying to be pinned down, we'll see- will obamacare drive my cost up?What was promised?







again- will obamacare cause a change that he must react to, that will preclude me from being his costumer under his and my present paradigm? What was promised?

Seems to me the answers to some of these questions you're asking depend up on your particular circumstances. As for the others, you seem to already have an answer in mind.

uh huh...I am just asking what everyone is asking and attempting to verify what was sold to us, well you and the rest who bought the line that is....

for example;



So let me begin by saying this: I know that there are millions of Americans who are content with their health care coverage – they like their plan and they value their relationship with their doctor. And that means that no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what. My view is that health care reform should be guided by a simple principle: fix what’s broken and build on what works.

Obama: ?If You Like Your Doctor, You Can Keep Your Doctor? - Washington Wire - WSJ

I asked GB oh Christ 2 years ago(?) a question, I am paraphrasing but the gist was-

did/is obama and the admin. over promising and do you think they are being genuine in what they are promising? Do you think they have done a good job of explaining and selling the plan?

He would not answer.

 

[Trajan]

If your employer is buying, then the insurance plan he chooses for you can change for any reason at all. He could even fire you! And then you won't have any coverage at all.

You pay what he chooses to make you contribute, regardless of what your plan actually costs. You get the providers in the network he chooses.

So I'm asking: who's making the decisions about what you're buying and what you're getting? If it's not you, then none of your questions can be answered by anyone other than the person actually shopping for coverage.

If you want specific answers about your coverage, then you're going to have to reveal more about it. Who's selling it, who's buying it, where is this happening, what does it cover, and where can one read the terms and conditions associated with it? I'm not your personal financial advisor but if you want individualized advice I'm going to need a lot more information.

I don't see why you need all of those qualifiers, if obamacare had not come along we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we?

no, well, actually I do know you need all of those qualifiers, because you cannot provide a forthright answer; I am not talking about the normal course of events that may or may not have occurred, that is not germane at all to this conversation, I am talking about changes that will occur due to obamacare.

You cannot claim nor use as protection, that 'hey shit could have changed anyway so what difference does it make' smokescreen, that won't wash.


my access, cost ( aside from the usual incremental bump) nor quality should change a wit due to obamacare- true or false?

Is the point you're trying to make here that change in your coverage will occur as a result of the ACA?

I don't know what changes will occur, the point is IF my quality cost and access changes negatively, due to the machinations of obamacare, then?

If it changes for the best, I will say so, but I can tell you here and now; I have a great plan, I have had a great plan for years, I have never had a problem with access, I have had the same MD for, 12 years, the cost has gone up , oh 2-3% perhaps a year, which I don't find onerous......frankly, I don't know how it can get any better than that*shrugs*

 

[Trajan]

question- GB- has California dropped their plans for exchanges that directly enroll people in private ins. or public prgms like Medicaid?

Re-phrase, I don't know what you're asking.

Dropping Plans

California, Colorado and Vermont are dropping plans for exchanges that directly enroll people in private insurance or public programs like Medicaid, according to data gathered by the National Academy for State Health Policy, a Washington-based research group.

Instead, shoppers will be told what they’re eligible for and transferred to an insurer website or call-in line -- or simply told to make the connection on their own. In California, Colorado and Utah, customers will be handed off to private insurers to pay their premiums, adding another step to the process, according to the National Academy.

“That’s a hand-off where somebody could potentially get lost,” Kingsdale, a partner at Wakely Consulting Group, said in a telephone interview. “You’re dealing mostly with the uninsured, who are hard to find and easy to lose.”

Obamacare Unveiled as California, New York Lead U.S. - Bloomberg

 

[Greenbeard]

I don't see why you need all of those qualifiers,

Because I don't know anything about your plan and you're asking me to comment on the details of it. I don't know what you buy or why. I don't know what it used to cost or what it does now, nor do I know what it covers now vs. what it did before. Nor do I even know what our reference point is supposed to be for "before." I don't even know who's making the decisions about those factors, as you seem rather coy about revealing that.

If you want specific questions about your plan answered, you're either going to have to ask someone who knows something about your plan or reveal something about it.

if obamacare had not come along we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we?

It seems likely you would have zero curiosity about the terms and costs of your plan in the absence of Obamacare, I'll concede. I don't consider that a weakness of the law, however.

no, well, actually I do know you need all of those qualifiers, because you cannot provide a forthright answer; I am not talking about the normal course of events that may or may not have occurred, that is not germane at all to this conversation, I am talking about changes that will occur due to obamacare.

What changes? What did you have before and what do you have now that you didn't previously? Surely you understand at least that this is a relevant question. That said, understand that I personally don't care at all about the details of whatever plan you have this year, I ask only out of exasperation and it seems you have no one closer to the situation to ask about these things.

my access, cost ( aside from the usual incremental bump) nor quality should change a wit due to obamacare- true or false?

What's the "usual incremental bump"? And do you even know (prior to this year, if you're in an employer-sponsored plan it's never been required that anyone even tell you what your plan actually costs)?

 

[Antares]

Sorry Greenie, your interpretation is silly

It means exactly the opposite of your claim.

Lets just look at the Law itself....you are quiet contemptible dad.


1) IN GENERAL- With respect to the premium rate charged by a health insurance issuer for health insurance coverage offered in the individual or small group market--
`(A) such rate shall vary with respect to the particular plan or coverage involved only by--
`(i) whether such plan or coverage covers an individual or family;
`(ii) rating area, as established in accordance with paragraph (2);
`(iii) age, except that such rate shall not vary by more than 3 to 1 for adults (consistent with section 2707(c)); and
`(iv) tobacco use, except that such rate shall not vary by more than 1.5 to 1; and
`(B) such rate shall not vary with respect to the particular plan or coverage involved by any other factor not described in subparagraph (A).

See the red part? That says that premiums for a given insurance plan can't vary based on the characteristics of the individual (beyond where they live, how old they are, how many people the plan is covering, and whether the person is a smoker). That's the point of Obamacare. That means if Alice, Bob, and Charlie are the same age and Anthem is selling a bronze plan for $234 to that age cohort, that's what Anthem has to charge each of them. They can't charge Alice more based on her gender, or Charlie more based on his heart condition for the same plan.

That does not mean that Kaiser can't sell a competing bronze plan to them for $261 or that Blue can't sell another competing bronze plan for $266. Those insurers can and they are. There are going to be lots of different bronze plans, lots of different silver plans, lots of different gold plans, and lots of different platinum plans. And the premiums for them are all going to be different, even within a metal tier. The state doesn't set them, nor are they identical between competing, say, silver plans. That's how competition works. Different plans with different premiums competing for business. Get it?

Let's try an easier example. Vermont's rates were filed weeks ago. It's a tiny state so they have two primary insurers selling in their exchange, MVP and Blue Cross. Between those two insurers, six different silver plans are going to be offered, each with with a different price. An insurer's premiums across silver plans don't even have to be the same as each other, much less the same as their competitors' various plans. This isn't theoretical at this point, you can actually look at the prices insurers are asking for their various products because they're about to start selling them.

Reading comprehension is key and you need to work on that. Each of your posts is more embarrassing than the last.

 

[Greenbeard]

Dropping Plans

California, Colorado and Vermont are dropping plans for exchanges that directly enroll people in private insurance or public programs like Medicaid, according to data gathered by the National Academy for State Health Policy, a Washington-based research group.

Instead, shoppers will be told what they’re eligible for and transferred to an insurer website or call-in line -- or simply told to make the connection on their own. In California, Colorado and Utah, customers will be handed off to private insurers to pay their premiums, adding another step to the process, according to the National Academy.

I can't say what they're referring to because they don't link to anything that would clarify, nor do they quote anyone from the organization they're citing. I suspect they've gotten some wires crossed on that one.

 

[Greenbeard]

Sorry Greenie, your interpretation is silly

It means exactly the opposite of your claim.

There's no interpretation here, the different prices for competing plans are now publicly available.

What's wrong with you?

 

[Trajan]

I don't see why you need all of those qualifiers,

Because I don't know anything about your plan and you're asking me to comment on the details of it. I don't know what you buy or why. I don't know what it used to cost or what it does now, nor do I know what it covers now vs. what it did before. Nor do I even know what our reference point is supposed to be for "before." I don't even know who's making the decisions about those factors, as you seem rather coy about revealing that.

If you want specific questions about your plan answered, you're either going to have to ask someone who knows something about your plan or reveal something about it.

if obamacare had not come along we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we?

It seems likely you would have zero curiosity about the terms and costs of your plan in the absence of Obamacare, I'll concede. I don't consider that a weakness, however.

no, well, actually I do know you need all of those qualifiers, because you cannot provide a forthright answer; I am not talking about the normal course of events that may or may not have occurred, that is not germane at all to this conversation, I am talking about changes that will occur due to obamacare.

What changes? What did you have before and what do you have now that you didn't previously? Surely you understand at least that this is a relevant question. That said, understand that I personally don't care at all about the details of whatever plan you have this year, I ask only out of exasperation and it seems you have no one closer to the situation to ask about these things.

my access, cost ( aside from the usual incremental bump) nor quality should change a wit due to obamacare- true or false?

What's the "usual incremental bump"? And do you even know (prior to this year, if you're in an employer-sponsored plan it's never been required that anyone even tell you what your plan actually costs)?

from the bottom up.....

-we've know from day 1, its always been spelled out in our T-Comp book.

-I/we have Cadillac coverage provided by my employer. I have not seen anything change yet, except, an extra bump when 26 year olds became kids again, that bump was wholly due to that provision, we discussed that, remember?

- Oh I was and had been curious, I always cared, I didn't move to another job due to differences in health-care coverage.

bzxh11

 

[Trajan]

Dropping Plans

California, Colorado and Vermont are dropping plans for exchanges that directly enroll people in private insurance or public programs like Medicaid, according to data gathered by the National Academy for State Health Policy, a Washington-based research group.

Instead, shoppers will be told what they’re eligible for and transferred to an insurer website or call-in line -- or simply told to make the connection on their own. In California, Colorado and Utah, customers will be handed off to private insurers to pay their premiums, adding another step to the process, according to the National Academy.

I can't say what they're referring to because they don't link to anything that would clarify, nor do they quote anyone from the organization they're citing. I suspect they've gotten some wires crossed on that one.

humm, how are their wires crossed? what do you see as incongruous there?

 

[Antares]

Oh yes, and those Vermont rate variations (look into deductible options)

 

[Greenbeard]

-I/we have Cadillac coverage provided by my employer. I have not seen anything change yet, except, an extra bump when 26 year olds became kids again, that bump was wholly due to that provision, we discussed that, remember?

You have a $28,000 insurance plan and you're demanding I answer how Obamacare is going to raise your costs? Here's a newflash for you: your plan costs at least 70-odd percent more than the average employer-sponsored plan. Whatever problems you're having with cost, they don't stem from Obamacare.

 

[Trajan]

-I/we have Cadillac coverage provided by my employer. I have not seen anything change yet, except, an extra bump when 26 year olds became kids again, that bump was wholly due to that provision, we discussed that, remember?

You have a $28,000 insurance plan and you're demanding I answer how Obamacare is going to raise your costs? Here's a newflash for you: your plan costs at least 70-odd percent more than the average employer-sponsored plan. Whatever problems you're having with cost, they don't stem from Obamacare.

who gives a crap what my plan costs and how it stands vs. others? How is that germane?

And , I never said I had a problem with cost, in fact I think I was pretty clear, I am apathetic to my current burden or the burden IF all things remained equal/ on par going forward......

cost is just one of the 3 issues I mentioned....

 

[Greenbeard]

humm, how are their wires crossed? what do you see as incongruous there?

Exchanges are not directories, they're markets through which you can directly purchase insurance. I've not heard that California, Colorado, and (Utah or Vermont? the article seems confused about that point) have decided otherwise, and I'm familiar with the work of the organization they reference. The fact that they didn't get a quote suggests to me that they're misinterpreting something, though what I can't say because they didn't actually reference anything.

 

[Greenbeard]

who gives a crap what my plan costs and how it stands vs. others? How is that germane?

And , I never said I had a problem with cost, in fact I think I was pretty clear, I am apathetic to my current burden or the burden IF all things remained equal/ on par going forward......

cost is just one of the 3 issues I mentioned....

I find it very hard to believe that anyone with a self-described Cadillac plan has access or quality problems. Cost maybe, but that's your decision.

So what are you asking me?

 

[Trajan]

it appears to me at least, that cali. and the rest may not be ready to handle the load, there fore they will foist off those folks to do more on their own....

 

[CrusaderFrank]

-I/we have Cadillac coverage provided by my employer. I have not seen anything change yet, except, an extra bump when 26 year olds became kids again, that bump was wholly due to that provision, we discussed that, remember?

You have a $28,000 insurance plan and you're demanding I answer how Obamacare is going to raise your costs? Here's a newflash for you: your plan costs at least 70-odd percent more than the average employer-sponsored plan. Whatever problems you're having with cost, they don't stem from Obamacare.

Only Greenbeard and his other government workers are allowed to have plans like that

 

[Trajan]

who gives a crap what my plan costs and how it stands vs. others? How is that germane?

And , I never said I had a problem with cost, in fact I think I was pretty clear, I am apathetic to my current burden or the burden IF all things remained equal/ on par going forward......

cost is just one of the 3 issues I mentioned....

I find it very hard to believe that anyone with a self-described Cadillac plan has access or quality problems. Cost maybe, but that's your decision.

So what are you asking me?

are you dancing now?


I never said I had problems, go back and read my posts again....



Oh and btw, whats in store for me ala my Plan in say, 4 years?

 

[Greenbeard]

I never said I had problems, go back and read my posts again....

Bully for you, I'll consider using that admission in my signature.

Oh and btw, whats in store for me ala my Plan in say, 3-4 years?

Better quality, better access (if that's even possible for someone with your plan), and slower cost growth. Congrats!

 

[Trajan]

I never said I had problems, go back and read my posts again....

Bully for you, I'll consider using that admission in my signature.

Oh and btw, whats in store for me ala my Plan in say, 3-4 years?

Better quality, better access (if that's even possible for someone with your plan), and slower cost growth. Congrats!

feel free, here, let me rephrase-


I love my present Plan, Doctor, access and coverage, sincerely- Trajan.

so, I will have better coverage, better access and slower cost growth.....hummmm

No, you're right thats probably not possible. I had an issue 3 years ago, 2 days after it came up, I was literally speaking with a Stanford specialist, top 3 in the country, out of pocket, zero. so, I doubt it could get better.

But it could get worse. And If it does, outside normal events accounting for age, pop. growth and costs expected, thats on YOU and your precious Obamacare.

You know it, I know it and anyone with a modicum of common sense will know it.....




Oh and Cost? sooo, 2018? Nothing to see there? Are you being dishonest GB? .....