What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[AZGAL]

 

[Missouri_Mike]

After 424 pages have we arrived at the logical conclusion that the human cost of illegal immigration falls on the criminals not us as US citizens?

 

[MaryL]

AZGAL: Sorry, not reposting that pic. What about SOME pictures of American homeless displaced by illegal aliens? Along with some artistically chosen words of theirs about the hard life they have lived because of illegals? This is propaganda.

 

[danielpalos]

If there was some sort of war or government takeover in these counties, I could better understand. But these countries haven't changed in some time. There is no sudden need to escape an environment they've lived in most of their lives. Sure, they want a better place to live, and that's understandable. But I'm certain you will find many children and parents in Asia and Africa that feel the same way. I'm sure there are billions of people that would love to invade the US.

Let's face it, the United States is preferable to 90% of the countries on Earth, including a lot of the ones in Europe. Personally, I think it's better than any other country on Earth.

Doesn't mean we're obligated to let everyone else on Earth live here.

I'm with you on that one, we are the greatest country on earth in spite of what the liberals claim. Notice they never leave for any of these other socialist utopias they constantly praise.

And as I asked Coyote, how many countries would she like to move into the USA? She never provided an answer.

If word ever got out that we are a virtual open border country, South America will be the least of our problems. They will be coming by the hundreds of millions in boats and planes from all over the world. It's simply not feasible.

If Democrats actually cared as much as they claim, they'd want to do more to help people in the countries they claim are shitholes. They want to do shit for them other than the ones who want to come here. And they only care about them because it's all about votes. Someone they help in El Salvador who stays in El Salvador isn't going to vote Democrat

all the right wing wants to do is make a profit out of our use of weapons of micro and mass destruction.

and,

then complain about refugees.

So what about people that aren't affiliated to any political party? Those poor wretched poor American trash that that seem to fall through the cracks. In fact, I can't count the number of times poor jobless Americans are mocked and disparaged. By these same liberals can't stand to hear illegals disparaged and mocked. American poor are trash, Mexican poor are mucho grande! Rich white elitist liberals or rich white elitist conservatives, liberals pander to illegals to the detriment of American poor, conservatives hire illegals and then bash illegals. The American politician's saint would be JANUS, the two faced god.

We could have solved simple poverty in the US, yesterday. The right wing doesn't like it, Because the poor may benefit.

 

[MisterBeale]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

Yes, this is terrible. I think I know of a solution though: If you have children, STF away from our borders.

Then it clearly is not so terrible to you. It's a human cost you find WORTH IT.

They don't see them as human.

So you are saying that if we see all the criminals that are in prison right now that have children as "human," we should just release them?

No, I'm saying many on the right don't see immigrants as human and therefore don't weigh the human cost of incarcerating children separate from their families. Simple enough for you?

Is that a new legal defense?

"Oh look your honor, this person might have robbed this convenience store, but they have a son and a daughter, they are human, therefor, they must be set free. Clearly, they just needed the money for their family and they can't be separated from their babies."


Grow up.

Yeah, wow not my argument at all, freak.

Actually, rational folks, on the left, right and center, who are not manipulated by establishment MSM emotional appeals fallacies, understand the difference between immigrants and illegal immigrants. You keep using the two terms interchangably like it makes no difference.

I am simply showing you that this is precisely your argument.

Even citizens in this nation that commit crimes that land them in jail have their children taken from them. Perhaps you are just too ignorant of the law to be aware of the power and reach of CPS.

Children need to be protected from bad parents. That is all there is to it. We really don't need to debate this, and folks don't have a lot of compassion for parents who put their kids at risk and use them as pawns to break laws and jump the border, hoping to use them as pawns for leniency.

You should be ashamed at yourself for being so easily manipulated by both these criminals and the corporate establishment.

 

[WEATHER53]

Libbies are so immaturely emotionally addled that they believe their idea of compassion and fairness is mandatory for all else, or else.

 

[danielpalos]

Yes, this is terrible. I think I know of a solution though: If you have children, STF away from our borders.

Then it clearly is not so terrible to you. It's a human cost you find WORTH IT.

They don't see them as human.

So you are saying that if we see all the criminals that are in prison right now that have children as "human," we should just release them?

No, I'm saying many on the right don't see immigrants as human and therefore don't weigh the human cost of incarcerating children separate from their families. Simple enough for you?

Is that a new legal defense?

"Oh look your honor, this person might have robbed this convenience store, but they have a son and a daughter, they are human, therefor, they must be set free. Clearly, they just needed the money for their family and they can't be separated from their babies."


Grow up.

Yeah, wow not my argument at all, freak.

Actually, rational folks, on the left, right and center, who are not manipulated by establishment MSM emotional appeals fallacies, understand the difference between immigrants and illegal immigrants. You keep using the two terms interchangably like it makes no difference.

I am simply showing you that this is precisely your argument.

Even citizens in this nation that commit crimes that land them in jail have their children taken from them. Perhaps you are just too ignorant of the law to be aware of the power and reach of CPS.

Children need to be protected from bad parents. That is all there is to it. We really don't need to debate this, and folks don't have a lot of compassion for parents who put their kids at risk and use them as pawns to break laws and jump the border, hoping to use them as pawns for leniency.

You should be ashamed at yourself for being so easily manipulated by both these criminals and the corporate establishment.

Let's end our alleged wars on drugs, and terror to stop creating refugees.

 

[MaryL]

It all came down to project Brazos, one of those 40's things to supplant American workers gone to war by Mexican workers. America never had closed borders. We didn't need one. We use to have poor whites working in the agricultural industry years ago. Americans used to pick grapes and do itinerant work. Then along came WW2, then American male workers suddenly became cannon fodder. We suddenly needed jobs filed by anyone, women or Mexicans, it didn't matter. And Mexicans were welcomed in here (legal or not) in droves. And it pretty much just mushroomed from there. And illegals Mexicans are pretty nationalist folks too, and they feel that nationalist pride in Mexico. And well, respecting America and acclimating, that is the least of their priorities. Especially when loco gringos give them sanctuary. It's telling when Mexicans think Americans are crazy for giving them this much merit. Even Mexicans know it strains credulity. Mexico had all these workers available to project Brazos, because Mexico was non comital in WW2. Mexicans just didn't care. That seems to be their entire national ethos. But they do like toasted burritos.

 

[WEATHER53]

We are America
We own it
When you break in we don’t like it and assuredly don’t want to help it.

 

[MisterBeale]

Then it clearly is not so terrible to you. It's a human cost you find WORTH IT.

They don't see them as human.

So you are saying that if we see all the criminals that are in prison right now that have children as "human," we should just release them?

No, I'm saying many on the right don't see immigrants as human and therefore don't weigh the human cost of incarcerating children separate from their families. Simple enough for you?

Is that a new legal defense?

"Oh look your honor, this person might have robbed this convenience store, but they have a son and a daughter, they are human, therefor, they must be set free. Clearly, they just needed the money for their family and they can't be separated from their babies."


Grow up.

Yeah, wow not my argument at all, freak.

Actually, rational folks, on the left, right and center, who are not manipulated by establishment MSM emotional appeals fallacies, understand the difference between immigrants and illegal immigrants. You keep using the two terms interchangably like it makes no difference.

I am simply showing you that this is precisely your argument.

Even citizens in this nation that commit crimes that land them in jail have their children taken from them. Perhaps you are just too ignorant of the law to be aware of the power and reach of CPS.

Children need to be protected from bad parents. That is all there is to it. We really don't need to debate this, and folks don't have a lot of compassion for parents who put their kids at risk and use them as pawns to break laws and jump the border, hoping to use them as pawns for leniency.

You should be ashamed at yourself for being so easily manipulated by both these criminals and the corporate establishment.

Let's end our alleged wars on drugs, and terror to stop creating refugees.

Agreed.


Why not tell that to Hillary? We can heap most of the blame on her and the Mr. O's leniency orders for DHS importing illegal alien children. . . .


How US Policy in Honduras Set the Stage for Today’s Mass Migration
How US Policy in Honduras Set the Stage for Today’s Mass Migration
Post-coup Honduras

U.S. Marines in Honduras in July 2016. (Wikimedia Commons)

". . .The 2009 coup, more than any other development, explains the increase in Honduran migration across the southern U.S. border in the last few years. The Obama administration played an important role in these developments. Although it officially decried Zelaya’s ouster, it equivocated on whether or not it constituted a coup, which would have required the U.S. to stop sending most aid to the country.


Then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, in particular, sent conflicting messages, and worked to ensure that Zelaya did not return to power. This was contrary to the wishes of the Organization of American States, the leading hemispheric political forum composed of the 35 member-countries of the Americas, including the Caribbean. Several months after the coup, Clinton supported a highly questionable election aimed at legitimating the post-coup government.


Strong military ties between the U.S. and Honduras persist: several hundred U.S. troops are stationed at Soto Cano Air Base (formerly Palmerola) in the name of fighting the drug war and providing humanitarian aid.


Since the coup, writes historian Dana Frank, “a series of corrupt administrations has unleashed open criminal control of Honduras, from top to bottom of the government.”


Organized crime, drug traffickers and the country’s police heavily overlap. Impunity reigns in a country with frequent politically-motivated killings. It is the world’s most dangerous country for environmental activists, according to Global Witness, an international nongovernmental organization.


Although its once sky-high murder rate has declined, the continuing exodus of many youth demonstrates that violent gangs still plague urban neighborhoods."



Surge of 'Unaccompanied Children' - FactCheck.org

 

[MaryL]

I live with illegal aliens from MEXICO. I have no Idea what the numbers are. 27 million. It's staggering the numbers. And Mexicans have this pride in la raza and Mexico and their "culture" and they will NOT acclimate. out of pride. Anyone else we would call that arrogance and cultural imperialism. Mexicans seem to see themselves as a gift to mankind. Above question . Why act like Mexicans above the law? Nobody, not even poor Mexicans with kids, NOBODY is above ANY law.

 

[MaryL]

I reflect on that line from Bill Murray, dogs living with cats mumbo jumbo. Mexicans taking over vast swathes of what used to be urban parts of America. Well, that's real. But we need Spanish subtitles now, because acclimation isn't in their subtext. As immigrants, they don't have to learn no stinkin' English or respect American culture. Unlike, say Russian Jews or Polish Catholics. Or all the other of those legal European immigrants were required to acclimate, and DID. Mexicans are god's gift to mankind, and are above immigration laws. And deserve sanctuary without the voter's consent. Because a small group of people called liberals say SO.

 

[danielpalos]

Don't believe in natural rights, right wingers? must not be about guns.

 

[Flopper]

You try to portray the bolded part as law but that’s not the quote
The idea that you owe money to a drug dealer or gang member and are therefore elegible for asylum is just another liberal feelings fairy tale

Correct, those are not acceptable reasons for asylum. However, if a gang is attacking your family because they are Miskito Indians, there're Jewish, black, political activists, or a member of a neighborhood watch organization then they quality.

Just being a victim of violence won't do it. It's the reason that's important. If a mother claims her husband has murdered two of her children and has sworn he'll murder all of them when they return home, the judge will have no option but to to return her home.

However if she adds to her claim that his threat of violence is due to the fact, that her children have rejected his religion, then they will qualify.

 

[Flopper]

I live with illegal aliens from MEXICO. I have no Idea what the numbers are. 27 million. It's staggering the numbers. And Mexicans have this pride in la raza and Mexico and their "culture" and they will NOT acclimate. out of pride. Anyone else we would call that arrogance and cultural imperialism. Mexicans seem to see themselves as a gift to mankind. Above question . Why act like Mexicans above the law? Nobody, not even poor Mexicans with kids, NOBODY is above ANY law.

What do you mean Mexicans won't assimilate. They have been assimilating in American culture for hundreds of years. Undocumented immigrants general do not assimilate, regardless of nationality because they lack documentation and are here illegally.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I live with illegal aliens from MEXICO. I have no Idea what the numbers are. 27 million. It's staggering the numbers. And Mexicans have this pride in la raza and Mexico and their "culture" and they will NOT acclimate. out of pride. Anyone else we would call that arrogance and cultural imperialism. Mexicans seem to see themselves as a gift to mankind. Above question . Why act like Mexicans above the law? Nobody, not even poor Mexicans with kids, NOBODY is above ANY law.

What do you mean Mexicans won't assimilate. They have been assimilating in American culture for hundreds of years. Undocumented immigrants general do not assimilate, regardless of nationality because they lack documentation and are here illegally.

This is actually incorrect.

Undocumented immigrants do in fact assimilate, learn English, and contribute to society as a whole.

And that one might be undocumented doesn’t mean he’s in the country ‘illegally’ – due process must be first afforded before a determination is made by an immigration court that an undocumented immigrant is not entitled to asylum and refugee status, and entered the country absent authorization.

This illustrates the tragedy of Republicans hostile to immigration reform.

Immigration reform measures will have a provision for due process allowing those undocumented to acknowledge they entered the country absent authorization, pay any appropriate fines, fees, and taxes owed, meet other conditions and requirements, and start the process of becoming LPRAs and eventually citizens.

Of course, Republicans oppose immigration reform because of their unwarranted fear of immigration and wrongheaded animosity toward immigrants.

 

[kaz]

You meant is that simpleton enough for him. You're welcome

Actually, no.

You worked on that reply for hours, didn't you?

Actually, no.

What's it like being stupid? I guess you don't know how to answer the question since you know no other way

If I didn't know any better I'd say you're trolling.

Notice that you cut the conversation back so the first post you eliminated was your troll post that I was responding to. That was obviously intentional. Obviously you know there's a problem with your ideology since you need to back up your arguments with personal insults

 

[kaz]

conservatives hire illegals and then bash illegals

Most conservatives don't hire illegals and the businesses who hire illegals are not just run by conservatives. Most conservatives think they should be fined or jailed. This just isn't accurate

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Undocumented immigrants do in fact assimilate, learn English, and contribute to society as a whole.

Of course they do. That's why our police on the souther border have to know Spanish. That's why we are becoming a bilingual country against our will. That's why they ask me what language I want my ballot in when I go to vote; because these people are assimilating so well.

Immigration reform measures will have a provision for due process allowing those undocumented to acknowledge they entered the country absent authorization, pay any appropriate fines, fees, and taxes owed, meet other conditions and requirements, and start the process of becoming LPRAs and eventually citizens.

Yes, in other words, amnesty, just like the Democrats want. The more minorities in the country, the more likely Democrat votes. Plus many of the "legal" immigrants end up on our already strained social programs.

 

[JoeB131]

The black and white left. Either we support unlimited legal immigration or no immigration at all. This is just a product of your stupidity.

If people can prove they can support themselves and we can verify they aren't criminals or bringing diseases, let them come in. Legally. Through the front door. If they climb through the unlocked kitchen window, treat them as the criminals they are

again, someone offered them a job to come up here, so they were "invited".

And given the fact your Fuhrer has the ICE Stormtroopers going after legal immigrants who've been here for years, like the man who had been here for 30 years who was arrested when he was mowing his lawn, your protestations are a little meaningless.