What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[AVG-JOE]

The answer to illegal immigration in America is the same answer for illegal immigration in Europe:

Foreign policy that fixes the countries these people are coming from instead of foreign policy that exploits the countries these people are coming from while enriching unpopular dictators.

 

[protectionist]

There is no free pass being given by allowing children to stay with parents as they await their hearing. They have always been able to remove children they suspect might not belong to the "parents" but that is not the case here.

When AMERICAN criminals are arrested (and can't make bail), they are put in county jails, to await trial. Are their kids with THEM ?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Is it possible to have enforcement policies that go too far? Does this particular policy go too far?

For the first question, the best way not to lose your children is to obey the law. We have laws here in the United States that take children from their families if the parents prove to be derelict in their duties as well, parents. Why no outrage over those? Sometimes these parents are derelict because they cannot afford to raise their children. Some through no fault of their own.

And as for other policies, yes, they can go too far, that's why we have a court system to weed out the excess.

To the latter question, the simple answer is no. Like I said before, if you don't want to have your family ripped apart because you violated our national sovereignty by coming here illegally, then use a bit of common sense. Respect our laws and we will respect the structural integrity of your family. Easy.

 

[Coyote]

Is it possible to have enforcement policies that go too far? Does this particular policy go too far?

For the first question, the best way not to lose your children is to obey the law. We have laws here in the United States that take children from their families if the parents prove to be derelict in duties as well, parents. Why no outrage over those? Sometimes these parents are derelict because they cannot afford to raise their children. Some through no fault of their own.

And as for other policies, yes, they can go too far, that's why we have a court system to weed out the excess.

To the latter question, the simple answer is no. Like I said before, if you don't want to have your family ripped apart because you violated our national sovereignty by coming here illegally, then use a bit of common sense. Respect our laws and we will respect the structural integrity of your family.

But what about the effect of the policy on the children themselves? Is there a point at which punishing the parents for their behavior becomes punishing the kids? You see every argument turns into something like “the parents deserve it because they did wrong”...ok....let’s accept that now for the sake of the argument. But do the kids deserve it?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

The answer to illegal immigration in America is the same answer for illegal immigration in Europe:

Foreign policy that fixes the countries these people are coming from instead of foreign policy that exploits the countries these people are coming from while enriching unpopular dictators.

In other words, let's blow the shit out of Mexico.

 

[koshergrl]

What about’s are good for other potential discussions but not really relevant to this, a specific policy.

Not quite sure what you were trying to say here...

Immigration is a huge issue, with a lot of policies, laws, and strong opinions. It is hard to focus on one particular aspect without going off on all kinds of tangents. I don’t care about who is to blame, in fact it is irrelevant. Blame is useless and changes nothing. Is it possible to have enforcement policies that go too far? Does this particular policy go too far?

It's a sign that we have reached the end of civilization when people can be raised in our culture without understanding how patently depraved it is to tolerate child trafficking.

 

[protectionist]

The answer to illegal immigration in America is the same answer for illegal immigration in Europe:

Foreign policy that fixes the countries these people are coming from instead of foreign policy that exploits the countries these people are coming from while enriching unpopular dictators.

And none is more fitting to that scenario than Mexico. A train wreck nation where monopolies (led by plutocrats) control the major industries. And just for these few selfish fiends, millions of Mexicans suffer, and the fiend country uses them to attack the USA, with tens of Billions$$ extracted from the US economy.

The separated children soon remain separated (now under Trump's policies) when their parents are deported, but the growing up kids soon replace their parents as remittance pillagers of the US economy + pillagers of US tax treasuries, and carry on the Mexican imperialism their country loves so much.

 

[tycho1572]

Can you understand why President Trump is working hard to fix this problem, Coyote?

No Tycho our reverent President is to busy tweeting. In fact, it’s been so noisy I suspect there are birds nesting in his toupe.

Is it safe for me to assume you’re good with democrats allowing people to be lured into unspeakable circumstances?

 

[AVG-JOE]

The answer to illegal immigration in America is the same answer for illegal immigration in Europe:

Foreign policy that fixes the countries these people are coming from instead of foreign policy that exploits the countries these people are coming from while enriching unpopular dictators.

In other words, let's blow the shit out of Mexico.

I was thinking more along the lines of crippling the cartels by legalizing weed.

But I'm a 'progressive', apparently

 

[TemplarKormac]

But what about the effect of the policy on the children themselves?

I'm curious about something...

Are the parents considering the effect on their children when they smuggle them across the border illegally? Do they consider the effect this policy will have on their child?

I don't think they do.

 

[Coyote]

Can you understand why President Trump is working hard to fix this problem, Coyote?

No Tycho our reverent President is to busy tweeting. In fact, it’s been so noisy I suspect there are birds nesting in his toupe.

Is it safe for me to assume that you’re good with democrats allowing people to be lured into unspeakable circumstances?

You think it is just a partisan issue then?

 

[koshergrl]

Can you understand why President Trump is working hard to fix this problem, Coyote?

No Tycho our reverent President is to busy tweeting. In fact, it’s been so noisy I suspect there are birds nesting in his toupe.

Is it safe for me to assume that you’re good with democrats allowing people to be lured into unspeakable circumstances?

She will tolerate anything in the name of tolerance...
Except protection of children. She won't tolerate that.

 

[tycho1572]

Can you understand why President Trump is working hard to fix this problem, Coyote?

No Tycho our reverent President is to busy tweeting. In fact, it’s been so noisy I suspect there are birds nesting in his toupe.

Is it safe for me to assume that you’re good with democrats allowing people to be lured into unspeakable circumstances?

You think it is just a partisan issue then?

It’s a humanitarian issue for me.

 

[Coyote]

But what about the effect of the policy on the children themselves?

I'm curious about something...

Are the parents considering the effect on their children when they smuggle them across the border illegally? Do they consider the effect this policy will have on their child?

I don't think they do.

Yes I think they do. Very much so. The journey is very dangerous, and often they are fleeing dangerous conditions in their own countries including threats to their children if they don’t join cartels or gangs, even rape. Often it is the sort of thing only desperate people would do. So yes I do believe they think of their children. What would you choose....having your daughter raped by a gang member because you refused to allow your son to serve as a runner for them and the police are either too corrupt or too afraid to do anything about it...or attempting a dangerous where, if you make it your family might be relatively safe?

 

[Coyote]

Can you understand why President Trump is working hard to fix this problem, Coyote?

No Tycho our reverent President is to busy tweeting. In fact, it’s been so noisy I suspect there are birds nesting in his toupe.

Is it safe for me to assume that you’re good with democrats allowing people to be lured into unspeakable circumstances?

You think it is just a partisan issue then?

It’s a humanitarian issue for me.

Likewise.

 

[Coyote]

What about’s are good for other potential discussions but not really relevant to this, a specific policy.

Not quite sure what you were trying to say here...

Immigration is a huge issue, with a lot of policies, laws, and strong opinions. It is hard to focus on one particular aspect without going off on all kinds of tangents. I don’t care about who is to blame, in fact it is irrelevant. Blame is useless and changes nothing. Is it possible to have enforcement policies that go too far? Does this particular policy go too far?

Why do you have an issue with assigning blame? It pretty simple. You drag your kid into a country illegally it’s your fault. You send your kid alone into another country illegally it’s your fault. None of this falls on us.

What point is there to blame, what does blame resolve except to make you feel self righteous?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Is there a point at which punishing the parents for their behavior becomes punishing the kids?

No. The punishment inflicted on the child is the parent's fault. You have a very kind and sweet heart, Coyote, but at some point the compassion has to end, and law and order must begin. We cannot dilute the law to a point where it is satisfactorily amiable to those of us on the inside looking out. Law has no purpose if we refuse to enforce it or we change it to a point where it has no effectiveness.

 

[TemplarKormac]

You see every argument turns into something like “the parents deserve it because they did wrong”...ok....let’s accept that now for the sake of the argument. But do the kids deserve it?

I'm sorry to keep going down that path, but the answer is this:

The parents thought they did.

 

[tycho1572]

Can you understand why President Trump is working hard to fix this problem, Coyote?

No Tycho our reverent President is to busy tweeting. In fact, it’s been so noisy I suspect there are birds nesting in his toupe.

Is it safe for me to assume that you’re good with democrats allowing people to be lured into unspeakable circumstances?

You think it is just a partisan issue then?

It’s a humanitarian issue for me.

Likewise.

I know that. We just see things differently.

 

[Coyote]

Is there a point at which punishing the parents for their behavior becomes punishing the kids?

No. The punishment inflicted on the child is the parent's fault. You have a very kind and sweet heart, Coyote, but at some point the compassion has to end, and law and order must begin. We cannot dilute the law to a point where it is satisfactorily amiable to those of us looking out from the inside. Law has no purpose if we refuse to enforce it or we change it to a point that it has no effectiveness.

But TK...you are still missing the point. Ok, let us say it is the parents fault. Is what is being done to these kids worth it? Is the cost paid by the children worth the punishment inflicted on the children? Does that make sense?