what is a liberal and which historical leaders were liberals?

GuyPinestra is correct that just because he lives (and I lived for 30 plus years) in the South does not make a racist. But there are many white racists there, almost all in the GOP, and there are many black racists, almost all in the Dems. The horse crap comes with the attempts by the reactionaries to somehow pretend the Civil Rights was a GOP led and dominated movement. It was not, though the GOP for the most part supported it.

Both sides need to be more honest about our history and leave off the revisionism.

True. Democrats and Republicans both supported it in the main, except in the South where they both voted against it. That's just the way it was. That was the vote of the representatives, not necessarily the wishes of the electorate.
Liberals like to claim responsibility for civil rights, Great Society, War on Poverty as if it didn't all amount to a near genocide against American blacks. They are so delusional as to believe their idiotic naive stupid good intentions matter for something other than near genocide!!
 
Uhhh.... where the hell did I "insist that everybody in the South is a racist"? Do you see my location?

I mean that would be as ludicrous as claiming the DP stands for racism --- which is what the post I was answering was trying to sell. Both are inane blanket statements.



Once again ... where do you see that claim? Are we reading the same post? What I posted was "which party finds it necessary" to redraw congressional districts. "Finds" is present tense, as in going on right now. Whining "mommy, he did it too" really isn't an argument. Add up the 2012 election numbers and you'll find that more voters chose Congresscritters from the D side than the R side, yet the R side won more seats.

That's what I mean by "the actual wishes of the electorate". All votes are created equal but when the system is set up just so, some votes are more equal than others.

Fair enough, I just get sick and tired of being labelled a 'racist' because I live south of the Mason-Dixon line.

As far as "the actual wishes of the electorate" go, are you suggesting that somehow the 5 million people of Greater Atlanta start deciding the Congressional representatives from Rome and Savannah?

I distinguish markedly between "Southerners" and "racists in the South", though I can understand the sensitivity to stereotypes. But then, stereotypes was what I was attacking in the first place.

The second point about Georgia -- I don't even know what that means.

You want to total all the votes for Congress and claim that because Democrats got more total votes than Republicans, but Republicans got more seats, that somehow the "actual wishes of the electorate" were not expressed. It sounds like you're proposing an 'at large' voting process, which would severely disenfranchise EVERYONE not living in the major cities.
 
The modern democrat party has drifted so far to the socialist left that the term "liberal" doesn't apply anymore. JFK was a liberal. Can you imagine president Hussein saying "ask not what your Country can do for you".


Not so fast repuker! The Democratic party hasn't changed. You repukes use the word pejoratively to describe everybody and every thing you disagree with. You are calling people liberal far too often and far too inaccurately. Most people are neither Liberal OR Conservative.
We are a mix of all kinds of political ideologies.
 
The modern democrat party has drifted so far to the socialist left that the term "liberal" doesn't apply anymore. JFK was a liberal. Can you imagine president Hussein saying "ask not what your Country can do for you".


Not so fast repuker! The Democratic party hasn't changed. You repukes use the word pejoratively to describe everybody and every thing you disagree with. You are calling people liberal far too often and far too inaccurately. Most people are neither Liberal OR Conservative.
We are a mix of all kinds of political ideologies.

Just so.
 
The modern democrat party has drifted so far to the socialist left that the term "liberal" doesn't apply anymore. JFK was a liberal. Can you imagine president Hussein saying "ask not what your Country can do for you".

You're even more clueless than you are stupid. There's no such thing as the "Democrat Party". You're parroting a Lush Rimjob malaprop, apparently because you outsourced your thinking to a radio carnival barker, having judged yourself incompetent. But then that assessment is probably accurate considering the rest of your drivel.

No party has drifted left. Both parties have been drifting right. That you don't see this is evidence of your abject vacuum of historical knowledge. But that's what happens when you outsource your thinking to Lush Rimjob.
 
GuyPinestra is correct that just because he lives (and I lived for 30 plus years) in the South does not make a racist. But there are many white racists there, almost all in the GOP, and there are many black racists, almost all in the Dems. The horse crap comes with the attempts by the reactionaries to somehow pretend the Civil Rights was a GOP led and dominated movement. It was not, though the GOP for the most part supported it.

Both sides need to be more honest about our history and leave off the revisionism.

True. Democrats and Republicans both supported it in the main, except in the South where they both voted against it. That's just the way it was. That was the vote of the representatives, not necessarily the wishes of the electorate.
Liberals like to claim responsibility for civil rights, Great Society, War on Poverty as if it didn't all amount to a near genocide against American blacks. They are so delusional as to believe their idiotic naive stupid good intentions matter for something other than near genocide!!

Special Ed back on the job rewriting history in the form of comic books as only he can...
 
GuyPinestra is correct that just because he lives (and I lived for 30 plus years) in the South does not make a racist. But there are many white racists there, almost all in the GOP, and there are many black racists, almost all in the Dems.

I just have to ask: Why do White Southern Racists continue to control the politics of the South. That is the issue at hand, not necessarily whether all White people living there are racists! Some may not be; but, they are floating happily on the rancid fluid of racism spewed by those they purport to disdain. Especially those tho identify themselves as Republicans.

On to your other point: I doubt if you can substantiate your claim that there are many Black racists in the Democrat[s party. Most Black voters vote democrat lately;but, I don't see how anyone can determine if any racists are among them since no manifestations of racism have emanated from the Dem side lately. To me, the Democratic Party exemplifies what America is all about: People of all races and genders working together to better their lives and working conditions. Where is the racism in that?

The horse crap comes with the attempts by the reactionaries to somehow pretend the Civil Rights was a GOP led and dominated movement. It was not, though the GOP for the most part supported it.

Agreed... except I am not so sure the GOP supported it. Some elements within might have, but It was probably not a universal GOP political plank.

Both sides need to be more honest about our history and leave off the revisionism.

DId I miss something? The only revisionism I see is by repukes who don't know the true history of Southern Politics or that of the CIvil Rights era!
 
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Liberalism was the dominant political movement that came out of the 17th century Enlightenment in western Europe.

It opposed heredity privilege, state enforced religion, and the Divine Right of Kings.

It supported science over theology.

It maximized individual freedom from the moral impositions of the state, which sought to impose a tightly defined set of traditions and protocols on the individual.

Liberalism is in contrast to Conservatism, which wants a powerful state to enforce the traditions and morality of the rulers, who were endowed by God to rule over the great unwashed plebes.

The French Revolution is the first modern instance of Liberalism. It sought to erect powerful individual rights in the face of government - with a focus on the protection of property, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and a right to democratically choose your leaders.

Conservatives were deeply threatened by this because they didn't want to subject traditional & religious institutions to will of the people. Conservatives believe that freedom, individualism and democracy are dangerous because these things can overturn the sacred structure of society, including religion. This is why they opposed the Women's Rights Movement, the Sexual Revolution and the Civil Rights Movement. They saw the Women's Rights Movement as interfering with the sacred gender roles and hierarchy of the family (as intended by God, with the man as king of his home). Conservatives believed that women should be man's helper - clean the house, cook the food, and raise his children. In each instance where a marginalized group has asserted its freedom and right to self-determination, conservatives have opposed it.

Hitler opposed Liberal Tolerance because he thought it lead to the over-assimilation of Jews in prewar Germany. Hitler believed that Liberal Tolerance, by supporting multiculturalism, threatened the Real Germany. He believed that German Language, Religion, and Traditions were sacred - and that the Liberal Weimar Republic was destroying them by allowing a diversity of peoples and beliefs to thrive inside Germany. His political mission was to take back German Borders, Language and Culture. He believed that the German Liberals had allowed Jews to reach positions of power inside government, banking and entertainment - and that the anti-Christian beliefs of Jews along with their refusal to embrace the German language was destroying the Real Germany.

Understanding why Hitler hated Liberal Tolerance will help you understand Liberalism.
 
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The horse crap comes with the attempts by the reactionaries to somehow pretend the Civil Rights was a GOP led and dominated movement. It was not, though the GOP for the most part supported it.
Agreed... except I am not so sure the GOP supported it. Some elements within might have, but It was probably not a universal GOP political plank.

The key word above was "reactionaries". They are truly not mainstream GOP, but they do love to revise Republican history.
 
GuyPinestra is correct that just because he lives (and I lived for 30 plus years) in the South does not make a racist. But there are many white racists there, almost all in the GOP, and there are many black racists, almost all in the Dems.

I just have to ask: Why do White Southern Racists continue to control the politics of the South. That is the issue at hand, not necessarily whether all White people living there are racists! Some may not be; but, they are floating happily on the rancid fluid of racism spewed by those they purport to disdain. Especially those tho identify themselves as Republicans.

On to your other point: I doubt if you can substantiate your claim that there are many Black racists in the Democrat party. Most Black voters vote democrat lately;but, I don't see how anyone can determine if any racists are among them since no manifestations of racism have emanated from the Dem side lately. To me, the Democrat Party exemplifies what America is all about: People of all races and genders working together to better their lives and working conditions. Where is the racism in that?

The horse crap comes with the attempts by the reactionaries to somehow pretend the Civil Rights was a GOP led and dominated movement. It was not, though the GOP for the most part supported it.

Agreed... except I am not so sure the GOP supported it. Some elements within might have, but It was probably not a universal GOP political plank.

Both sides need to be more honest about our history and leave off the revisionism.

DId I miss something? The only revisionism I see is by repukes who don't know the true history of Southern Politics or that of the CIvil Rights era!

"Why do White Southern Racists continue to control the politics of the South.?"

You have an example of this? Or are you just spewing some shit that you think you know?

"...they are floating happily on the rancid fluid of racism spewed by those they purport to disdain."

Same question.

"I doubt if you can substantiate your claim that there are many Black racists in the Democrat party."

I'm guessing you haven't paid any attention to the vitriol heaped upon Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, Thomas Sowell, Mia Love, and every other Republican of color to come down the pike in the last 40 years.
 
True. Democrats and Republicans both supported it in the main, except in the South where they both voted against it. That's just the way it was. That was the vote of the representatives, not necessarily the wishes of the electorate.
Liberals like to claim responsibility for civil rights, Great Society, War on Poverty as if it didn't all amount to a near genocide against American blacks. They are so delusional as to believe their idiotic naive stupid good intentions matter for something other than near genocide!!

Special Ed back on the job rewriting history in the form of comic books as only he can...

I thought that there was some kind of rule that disallowed posts (in bold) from people who live in an alternative universe?
 
True. Democrats and Republicans both supported it in the main, except in the South where they both voted against it. That's just the way it was. That was the vote of the representatives, not necessarily the wishes of the electorate.
Liberals like to claim responsibility for civil rights, Great Society, War on Poverty as if it didn't all amount to a near genocide against American blacks. They are so delusional as to believe their idiotic naive stupid good intentions matter for something other than near genocide!!

Special Ed back on the job rewriting history in the form of comic books as only he can...

it shows your near perfect liberal ignorance and illiteracy not to know Sowell and Williams and the whole conservative libertarian view of history.

"We could survive slavery, we could survive Jim Crow, but we could not survive liberalism." - Walter Williams

Even in the antebellum era, when slaves often weren’t permitted to wed, most black children lived with a biological mother and father. During Reconstruction and up until the 1940s, 75% to 85% of black children lived in two-parent families. Today, more than 70% of black children are born to single women. “The welfare state has done to black Americans what slavery couldn’t do, what Jim Crow couldn’t do, what the harshest racism couldn’t do,” Mr. Williams says. “And that is to destroy the black family
 
Wow! Wait until they hear this down at the the What's Happening Now, Foursquare Gospel Church at next weeks fried chicken Sunday picnic!
 
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Wow! Wait until they hear this down at the the What's Happening Now, Foursquare Gospel Church at next weeks fried chicken Sunday picnic!

any point there???????????????????????????????

Not particularly Ed. After having read a few of your posts, I realize the futility of trying to reason with you, so I just make general comments instead! Your take on black America is certainly "different" than what I have experieinced, especially in New Orleans, where I was surrounded by a 70% African-American population. Anyway, I suspect that Bill Cosby and Cain would agre with you!
 
Wow! Wait until they hear this down at the the What's Happening Now, Foursquare Gospel Church at next weeks fried chicken Sunday picnic!

any point there???????????????????????????????

Not particularly Ed. After having read a few of your posts, I realize the futility of trying to reason with you, so I just make general comments instead! Your take on black America is certainly "different" than what I have experieinced, especially in New Orleans, where I was surrounded by a 70% African-American population. Anyway, I suspect that Bill Cosby and Cain would agre with you!

Is there something factually incorrect in Ed's last statement, or the observation made by Williams?
 
Wow! Wait until they hear this down at the the What's Happening Now, Foursquare Gospel Church at next weeks fried chicken Sunday picnic!

any point there???????????????????????????????

Not particularly Ed. After having read a few of your posts, I realize the futility of trying to reason with you, so I just make general comments instead! Your take on black America is certainly "different" than what I have experieinced, especially in New Orleans, where I was surrounded by a 70% African-American population. Anyway, I suspect that Bill Cosby and Cain would agre with you!

and more importantly some great black economists like Sowell,Williams, and Steele would agree. Who can argue that the liberal programs amounted to a near genocide against blacks. Slavery did not destroy the black family, liberalism did!! Slavery did not put more black men in prison than were held as slaves in 1860, liberalism did!!
 
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any point there???????????????????????????????

Not particularly Ed. After having read a few of your posts, I realize the futility of trying to reason with you, so I just make general comments instead! Your take on black America is certainly "different" than what I have experieinced, especially in New Orleans, where I was surrounded by a 70% African-American population. Anyway, I suspect that Bill Cosby and Cain would agre with you!

Is there something factually incorrect in Ed's last statement, or the observation made by Williams?

He didn't give any "facts"; he summarized a third party's conclusion based on specious reasoning. It's an opinion, and not a very fleshed-out one. Special Ed was just laying bait so he could come back with those quotes out of context, insult his adversary, and look like a literate sort. Doesn't impress me.

Ed's got a "special" approach to logic, so I don't bother responding either, much as Vandalshandle said.
 
Liberalism was the dominant political movement that came out of the 17th century Enlightenment in western Europe.

It opposed heredity privilege, state enforced religion, and the Divine Right of Kings.

It supported science over theology.

It maximized individual freedom from the moral impositions of the state, which sought to impose a tightly defined set of traditions and protocols on the individual.

Liberalism is in contrast to Conservatism, which wants a powerful state to enforce the traditions and morality of the rulers, who were endowed by God to rule over the great unwashed plebes.

The French Revolution is the first modern instance of Liberalism. It sought to erect powerful individual rights in the face of government - with a focus on the protection of property, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and a right to democratically choose your leaders.

Conservatives were deeply threatened by this because they didn't want to subject traditional & religious institutions to will of the people. Conservatives believe that freedom, individualism and democracy are dangerous because these things can overturn the sacred structure of society, including religion. This is why they opposed the Women's Rights Movement, the Sexual Revolution and the Civil Rights Movement. They saw the Women's Rights Movement as interfering with the sacred gender roles and hierarchy of the family (as intended by God, with the man as king of his home). Conservatives believed that women should be man's helper - clean the house, cook the food, and raise his children. In each instance where a marginalized group has asserted its freedom and right to self-determination, conservatives have opposed it.

Hitler opposed Liberal Tolerance because he thought it lead to the over-assimilation of Jews in prewar Germany. Hitler believed that Liberal Tolerance, by supporting multiculturalism, threatened the Real Germany. He believed that German Language, Religion, and Traditions were sacred - and that the Liberal Weimar Republic was destroying them by allowing a diversity of peoples and beliefs to thrive inside Germany. His political mission was to take back German Borders, Language and Culture. He believed that the German Liberals had allowed Jews to reach positions of power inside government, banking and entertainment - and that the anti-Christian beliefs of Jews along with their refusal to embrace the German language was destroying the Real Germany.

Understanding why Hitler hated Liberal Tolerance will help you understand Liberalism.

This ^^ is a guy who understands the question, and the answer. :clap2:

Good to know history isn't dead.
 

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