What is feminism today?

[Concerned American]

YOu think people should have to depend on charity like go fund me pages to survive. What happens if nobody donates? I guess oh well that person dies. Yes governments should provide safety nets for those in need. LOL at depending on charity.

Have you ever heard the line, "Beggars can't be choosers?" If you don't want to be a charity case, get off of your lazy ass and go to work. Every other business has a help wanted sign up in their window.
I also, once again will direct your attention to the topic of the thread, "What is feminism today" Unless you think that feminism is government charity programs, KEEP ON THE FUCKING TOPIC.

 

[john doe 101]

Have you ever heard the line, "Beggars can't be choosers?" If you don't want to be a charity case, get off of your lazy ass and go to work. Every other business has a help wanted sign up in their window.
I also, once again will direct your attention to the topic of the thread, "What is feminism today" Unless you think that feminism is government charity programs, KEEP ON THE FUCKING TOPIC.

LIke I said. Typical republican. Only until something affects you do you realize the entirety of an issue, because you are incapable of seeing beyond yourself. Until then, let people suffer.

 

[Concerned American]

What if

The thread is What is feminism today. Nothing in that interrogative is hypothetical. Now run along if you are looking for sympathy, I will direct you to the dictionary. You'll find it somewhere between shit and syphillis. Stay on topic.

 

[john doe 101]

The thread is What is feminism today. Nothing in that interrogative is hypothetical. Now run along if you are looking for sympathy, I will direct you to the dictionary. You'll find it somewhere between shit and syphillis. Stay on topic.

Ok lets get back to your views on women from an incel's perspective. Is it because they are experiencing pleasure and you arent that gets you so riled up against women's rights?

 

[Concerned American]

LIke I said. Typical republican. Only until something affects you do you realize the entirety of an issue, because you are incapable of seeing beyond yourself. Until then, let people suffer.

Topic is WHAT IS FEMINISM TODAY? Please stay on topic. If you want to discuss Government Charity programs and parasites--make a thread on it.

 

[Concerned American]

Ok lets get back to your views on women from an incel's perspective. Is it because they are experiencing pleasure and you arent that gets you so riled up against women's rights?

Like I said, get out of your own head, read and comprehend. There is a whole world out there once you expand it beyond your last two living brain cells.

 

[john doe 101]

Like I said, get out of your own head, read and comprehend. There is a whole world out there once you expand it beyond your last two living brain cells.

I read your post. You have a problem with women having sex. Not only that, you believe women should take full responsibility if they have an unwanted pregnancy. Sounds like you're an incel to me.

 

[SweetSue92]

Feminism in America, a traditionally leftist view, has changed, a lot over the past 70 years, and I think it's time we women re-evaluate what it means to be a feminist TODAY and what are and are not doing or what we should be doing. It's been accused of being a white elitist movement, and I have to agree there is an element of truth in that statement. It's also been accused of being out of touch with many women in America and elsewhere. There is truth there as well, at least if you go by the most vocal and politically active elements.

What does feminism mean today? Acknowledging something that, decades ago would have been sacrilege. We, as women, really are the guardians of family, culture, education, community strength and, often unacknowledged - diplomacy over war. IMO (and this is controversial and maybe even sexist) - women are more invested in the long term than men: climate change, global health issues, long term consequences that shape the world their children will inhabit. Feminism needs to move beyond equal rights for largely white corporate American women and needs to recognize that women in all walks of life are part of the sisterhood, regardless of politics, ethnicity, race, religion, nationality. Our outlook needs to focus inward to the community level and outward on a global scale. What is happening to women elsewhere in the world?

We used to have to fight for recognition that we were the equal of men in any job because at the time that was a battle of fundamental rights (and by and large we are equal) but in doing so we also had to deny some fundamental differences and those differences are important in what we should imo be focusing on in feminism.

This is my list:

First off, the global view - supporting our women everywhere and it's fundamental underpinning, freedom of choice and individual autonomy, everywhere in the world. The right to safety from violence, the right to determine whether or not to bear children, the right to an education, the right to choose freely who they will partner with. The right to equal treatment under their justice system. The right to free movement. The right to medical care. All of these things are denied to women in various parts of the world, because they are women.

Second, the community level. What's the use of shattering the glass ceiling when you have to raise your children in a drug and violence infested neighborhood, always afraid the streets will seduce your child or he or she will become another random victim of violence? What's the point if you don't have clean drinking water, or your daughter gets married off at 14, or her denied an education beyond primary school? Feminism shouldn't be looking down on the grandmother who isn't out there in corporate America but is instead investing her energy in family, and maybe she is the primary force behind pushing for an education in her grandchildren so they can get out of the trap, and maybe she is the one providing free baby sitting for a single mother with an erratic schedule who is also trying to go to school. There are a lot of hidden things women do that get looked down upon but are in reality feminism and a quite strength.

Something to think about - what is feminism?

I would be curious to hear other points of view.

This is fascinating, as I thought you were a supporter of Islam.

 

[Concerned American]

I read your post. You have a problem with women having sex. Not only that, you believe women should take full responsibility if they have an unwanted pregnancy. Sounds like you're an incel to me.

Run along troll, you're not worth any more of my time. You hijacked a perfectly sensible thread and turned it into a charity fest.

 

[SweetSue92]

Rights are fragile as we are seeing around the world how easily they can be taken away.

This is also interesting as you seem to endorse the govt giving all these benefits to women: free daycare, housing, etc etc the list goes on.

Then, you realize those same govt take away rights, correct?

 

[Coyote]

Don't know that I'd say that. It IS a tiny subset of a tiny subset, but I haven't heard the Left come out and state their position on TGs competing against biological women. I get the feeling they want to straddle the fence on this, trying to appease everybody and I'm not sure that is going to work. I can see the Right trying to drive a wedge between bio women and the democratic party, that's politics for ya. I'd like to see their party clarify what they stand for and what they don't, and I kinda doubt they'll do that. And maybe they deserve a little heat for that, if true.

I think for the left, who strongly support equal rights, it's a conundrum...how do you resolve this in a way that is fair and equitable? With competing rights, that is hard - transgender people and women. The Democrats are stuck in that bind. Both parties have had experience with divisive issues within their tents. I think the usual tactic is to obfuscate and kick the can down the road hoping a decision will make itself known. Although women make up a much larger political group then transgenders so that might be the answer.

I delayed answering this because in which someone in swimming wrote a rather long editorial that was respectful of both the rights of transgenders and of women athletes and proposed alternatives such as swim for exhibition only or create a category not divided by gender. Can't find it now though. It may not be fair but it is also not fair to have male bodies compete against female bodies. I haven't read all the research but I find it hard to believe that hormone therapy makes enough of a difference to overcome what puberty does to the developing body - broader shoulders, different musculature etc. - that won't change.

But the money isn't there for TG sports. Are we going to have Olympic sports for men, women, and TGs? Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not seeing it.

That is true but, it wasn't (and still isn't largely) there for women's sports. They have had to fight for it and continue to fight for it. Transgender women can do the same.

First of all, what's going on elsewhere in the world isn't something the US Gov't should be focused on IMHO. That's sad, but we can't be the world's police and we also can't be the world's judge either. With respect to women's issues in this country, I confess I'm not up on everything that is being done in that area, but are we not making progress? Are things not better for women than they used to be 20, 50, or 100 years ago?

But I'm not thinking about the US government...I'm thinking about what individuals and private organizations can do. We're constantly told by the right that feminists don't care yet now we're told you should be caring women's sports instead of women in Afghanistan for example.

We have made considerable progress, with one (controversial) exception - we are going backwards on the issue of bodily autonomy. I realize abortion is highly controversial (I view it as competing rights) - and I don't want to make this a thread about abortion. However it IS a woman's issue in the U.S.

We still don't have real pay equity, for example - traditional male dominated jobs still tend to pay more (sometimes lots more) than traditional female jobs, when you take into account the educational level and responsibilities required. Example truck driver vs. child care worker.

 

[Coyote]

That is what the feminism movement has turned into. I know it's a long video but I behoove you to watch it.
Feminists like the left in general have allowed a very toxic element of society to co opt their agenda. Wokeism is destroying everything those two entities have built. They have effectively boiled down every issue in modern society to isms and attached those tropes to ANYONE who doesn't agree with them. That mistake removes ANY CHANCE for an open or HONEST dialog.

Here's a chance for honest dialogue in this thread right? Where should feminism be going?

 

[Coyote]

This is also interesting as you seem to endorse the govt giving all these benefits to women: free daycare, housing, etc etc the list goes on.

Then, you realize those same govt take away rights, correct?

I absolutely do (though your list exagerates it somewhat) and make no bones about it. Unlike conservatives I don't consider it to be evil. I've said before (and yes, I am a taxpayer) that I support a strong family centered safety net. I wouldn't say just to women though because these issues support FAMILY and the economy in general by allowing women greater access to employment and thus they aren't on welfare as single mothers.

My list is not "free housing" but as we have it now, subsidized based on need. Child care is expensive. There are private companies that create corporate campus where child care and even an elementary school is located as part of the benefits of employment. It's been enormously successful. Childcare is expensive. A single parent, especially if she had to curtail her education, likely would have trouble getting a job that both meets that cost and the cost of housing etc. What she gets from assistance (when you factor in the costs of childcare, transportation etc) is probably more than wages would be.

Parties pretend to be "pro-family"...well what exactly does that mean? IMO it means the types of things I discuss above.

 

[Coyote]

This is fascinating, as I thought you were a supporter of Islam.

Maybe you should actually read what I write, what I oppose is broad brushing an entire faith or group. Islam, like any religion, has different levels of practice. What we see in Afghanistan, towards women but also men, is barbaric, extremist and brutal. But, also brutal is what we see in India (and in both cases I'll point out, there is a big difference in the rural/urban divide). On a personal level, these sorts of things and "doctrine" in general are why I don't care for organized religion at all.

 

[Coyote]

Have you ever heard the line, "Beggars can't be choosers?" If you don't want to be a charity case, get off of your lazy ass and go to work. Every other business has a help wanted sign up in their window.
I also, once again will direct your attention to the topic of the thread, "What is feminism today" Unless you think that feminism is government charity programs, KEEP ON THE FUCKING TOPIC.

Except that women are taxpayers. They have the same right as anyone else to make a case for where their tax money goes.

 

[Coyote]

Nope, moron parasite, I think people should stand on their own two feet. I didn't take you to raise and it is not the public's responsibility. Thankfully we have many charitable people and organizations that do a commendable job in taking up the slack for the unfortunate among us. The government is not designed to be your charity of choice.

Yes, we do, but we have never had enough in the private sector to cover it all and there can be significant strings attached.

 

[Coyote]

We are so divided these days into groups or tribes I guess. And they all want everybody else to help solve their problems or issues instead of fixing whatever it is by themselves. But what we're doing is creating a pretty big burden on future generations (debt) and we aren't working on solutions that could actually help if we worked together. But we don't, and frankly it doesn't feel like we're going to start doing that either. Instead, we add to the pile of problems/concerns, ignore some existing problems and blow others out of proportion to some degree. Maybe I'm wrong (nothing new there), but to me most of it stems from an unwillingness to accept responsibility for our decisions and actions. For example, abortion shouldn't be the issue that it is if men and women didn't have unprotected sex then we wouldn't have to fight about abortion, right? All that money that goes into abortions today could be put to better use in other areas like childcare. Why are we pushing harder for contraceptives, making them free instead of free abortions? We are creating our own problems, aren't we?

I don't think people are pushing for free abortions exactly, except maybe among the poor ... but the same people who support abortion rights are usually the same who also support free contraception. I certainly do. Good fact based sexual education, free contraception, support where needed. But the most common response I get back is - it's not my responsibility/the government's responsibility to pay for that, it's the individual. Yet countries that have that and have legal abortions have far fewer abortions than we do.

 

[Concerned American]

Yes, we do, but we have never had enough in the private sector to cover it all and there can be significant strings attached.

That is very true and IMO does not make those entities very charitable. That being said, I don't think our government was ever designed to be all things to all people, nor was it designed to provide relief to constituents at all. Safety nets should be part of community, not government.

 

[Coyote]

Try answering.

Is a tranny a woman?

Can men get pregnant?

Are birthing people found in dozens of different genders?

LGBTQ people represent 8% of the population (according to the last census) - out of which maybe 1% identify as transgender. It is not broken down further into trans men and trans women.

You are obsessing over a miniscule proportion of a tiny proportion of American people. Other than the issue of sports, why should we care?

 

[Anomalism]

I think for the left, who strongly support equal rights, it's a conundrum...how do you resolve this in a way that is fair and equitable? With competing rights, that is hard - transgender people and women. The Democrats are stuck in that bind. Both parties have had experience with divisive issues within their tents. I think the usual tactic is to obfuscate and kick the can down the road hoping a decision will make itself known. Although women make up a much larger political group then transgenders so that might be the answer.

I delayed answering this because in which someone in swimming wrote a rather long editorial that was respectful of both the rights of transgenders and of women athletes and proposed alternatives such as swim for exhibition only or create a category not divided by gender. Can't find it now though. It may not be fair but it is also not fair to have male bodies compete against female bodies. I haven't read all the research but I find it hard to believe that hormone therapy makes enough of a difference to overcome what puberty does to the developing body - broader shoulders, different musculature etc. - that won't change.




That is true but, it wasn't (and still isn't largely) there for women's sports. They have had to fight for it and continue to fight for it. Transgender women can do the same.



But I'm not thinking about the US government...I'm thinking about what individuals and private organizations can do. We're constantly told by the right that feminists don't care yet now we're told you should be caring women's sports instead of women in Afghanistan for example.

We have made considerable progress, with one (controversial) exception - we are going backwards on the issue of bodily autonomy. I realize abortion is highly controversial (I view it as competing rights) - and I don't want to make this a thread about abortion. However it IS a woman's issue in the U.S.

We still don't have real pay equity, for example - traditional male dominated jobs still tend to pay more (sometimes lots more) than traditional female jobs, when you take into account the educational level and responsibilities required. Example truck driver vs. child care worker.

We could just stop accommodating the mental illness of trans people. At some point you have to stop being polite.