What is it that ideas and people are 'left' or 'right' of?

[Skull Pilot]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

Social evolution.

I don't think the monarch was the axis. It was social evolution. In the original meaning, the monarch and those seated to the right were impediments to social evolution. I don't think much has changed.

Sure. Evolution.

Revolutions can be a messy business. Would you prefer to live under a monarch or in a liberal democracy?

how about a republic ?

 

[Tehon]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

Social evolution.

I don't think the monarch was the axis. It was social evolution. In the original meaning, the monarch and those seated to the right were impediments to social evolution. I don't think much has changed.

Sure. Evolution.

Revolutions can be a messy business. Would you prefer to live under a monarch or in a liberal democracy?

how about a republic ?

Same thing.

 

[Skull Pilot]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

Social evolution.

I don't think the monarch was the axis. It was social evolution. In the original meaning, the monarch and those seated to the right were impediments to social evolution. I don't think much has changed.

Sure. Evolution.

Revolutions can be a messy business. Would you prefer to live under a monarch or in a liberal democracy?

how about a republic ?

Same thing.

No it's not.

 

[Tehon]

Social evolution.

I don't think the monarch was the axis. It was social evolution. In the original meaning, the monarch and those seated to the right were impediments to social evolution. I don't think much has changed.

Sure. Evolution.

Revolutions can be a messy business. Would you prefer to live under a monarch or in a liberal democracy?

how about a republic ?

Same thing.

No it's not.

Representative democracy is an example of a liberal democracy.

 

[jc456]

Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

The freedom of the individual contrasted with the good of the group.

by the way, that was the emphasis of our FF's.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

I think it is hilarious if any one beleives that the two party system is representative of our needs as a nation. Our interests are to varied for this system to be truely effective. How to fix it I do not know but the two party system must be fixed some time soon.

Thats part of the reason i do not support a big fed gov, and support a bigger state/local.

The billion dollar question is how do we get more parties involved and make them relevant? I would appreciate ideas I am short on them for this subject.

Our voters. You would think by now they would dump the useless duopoly but NOPE

My guess is it's the 'organized sport' mentality of political extremists that has become so prevalent in today's news and social media that prevents the idea of real change.

 

[there4eyeM]

There is a sense to highways meaning a kind of freedom.

If you say so

Highways are kind of like lines in a coloring book

Certainly, Buddha would find highways "as the crawlings of ants across my foot as I rested by the path".
For many (of we 'lesser evolved' beings), highways lead to the sea, the mountains, the endless voyage. It is wonderful to be rolling across America with the intention of seeing everything possible. Then, of course, there are the less glorious yet not insignificant contributions than rapid, independent mobility provides one; more choices about how to earn a living, for example.
Relative freedom, perhaps, yet a form nonetheless.

 

[there4eyeM]

Social evolution.

I don't think the monarch was the axis. It was social evolution. In the original meaning, the monarch and those seated to the right were impediments to social evolution. I don't think much has changed.

Sure. Evolution.

Revolutions can be a messy business. Would you prefer to live under a monarch or in a liberal democracy?

how about a republic ?

Same thing.

No it's not.

Not to get personal, but did you stamp your foot as you wrote that?

 

[there4eyeM]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

Social evolution.

I don't think the monarch was the axis. It was social evolution. In the original meaning, the monarch and those seated to the right were impediments to social evolution. I don't think much has changed.

Sure. Evolution.

Revolutions can be a messy business. Would you prefer to live under a monarch or in a liberal democracy?

how about a republic ?

Would you say that 'democracy' is to the 'left' of 'republican' (honest question, no subterfuge)?

 

[g5000]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

Generally speaking, if you believe we need more government involvement in our lives, you are to the left. If you believe we need less government intervention in our lives, you are to the right.

 

[g5000]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

/——/ Mostly Left or right of the original intent of the Constitution and Bill of Rights

This, in fact, illustrates exactly the problem of the shift concepts. The American form adopted at the birth of the nation was about as far left as existed at the time.

That's true. At the time, anyone who supported the monarchy was to the right, or a "Tory". Anyone who supported the "rights of man" was to the left.

The French revolution took that to the furthest extremes. They were actually proto-communists.

Even some of our own Founders were quite socialist. Thomas Paine in particular.

 

[there4eyeM]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

Generally speaking, if you believe we need more government involvement in our lives, you are to the left. If you believe we need less government intervention in our lives, you are to the right.

Here's a clear statement of things! My impression is that this is pretty much true, in a very general sense, regarding current American political dialog. Problems arise from this not being universally applied. That is, more than enough speakers and writers so exaggerate the terms that opacity replaces transparency.

 

[there4eyeM]

There are those who are more or less in opposition to the present administration who, at the same time, share few views with others that supporters deem 'leftists'.

 

[g5000]

In my first post, I said wanting more government involvement = left, less government involvement = right.

However, we can see that even this doesn't really hold up very well in the current political landscape. There are those who consider themselves to the "right" and yet support Trump's government intervention in the form of protectionist tariffs and bailouts of farmers and massive economic stimulus spending.

There are scads and scads of people who consider themselves to be to the "right" who defend tax expenditures to the death. Even though tax expenditures are the biggest government social and behavioral control programs in the history of the world.

In fact, most of the alleged right wingers on this forum support that massive intervention in the free market.


So I guess "right" and "left" are so fluid these days as to be pretty much meaningless. It all depends who is President at the time. You're either for him or against him.

And that takes us back to the days of the monarchy. You're either a Tory or you're not. Then you flip to the other side when a new monarch takes over.

 

[g5000]

It seems to me both parties support expanding government powers when they are in power. When is the last time you actually saw either party repeal government powers?

That's why I no longer vote on the federal level. They are ALL pro-big government.

I consider myself to be an actual conservative who believes we have too much government in our lives, and therefore cannot vote for either party.

We had a massive expansion of federal police powers the last time the GOP was in total control of the legislative and executive branches. And now we see our federal deficits skyrocketing and accelerating now that the GOP is back in power.

No one will ever convince me the Republican party is the party of small government.

I caught on to that hoax a long time ago with Grover Norquist's "Taxpayer Protection Pledge".

That was a pledge not to increase taxes.

But here's the hoax part: It did not contain a pledge not to increase spending or the size of the government.

D'oh!

 

[danielpalos]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

the right prefers to use capitalism to punish rather than encourage.

capitalism must be voluntary or it is merely socialism.

 

[there4eyeM]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

the right prefers to use capitalism to punish rather than encourage.

capitalism must be voluntary or it is merely socialism.

Interesting view of things. One can understand the 'take'.

 

[Tehon]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

Generally speaking, if you believe we need more government involvement in our lives, you are to the left. If you believe we need less government intervention in our lives, you are to the right.

That is a modern American interpretation of the dichotomy that bares no resemblance to its origins and makes no sense. That would place Marx, who envisions the state withering away, on the right.

 

[there4eyeM]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

Generally speaking, if you believe we need more government involvement in our lives, you are to the left. If you believe we need less government intervention in our lives, you are to the right.

That is a modern American interpretation of the dichotomy that bares no resemblance to its origins and makes no sense. That would place Marx, who envisions the state withering away, on the right.

We are agreed, just the same, that this is to explore what people here today mean when they use certain words. We want to identify what it is we are saying to our contemporaries when we use their terms.

 

[Cecilie1200]

As time has passed, many nouns and descriptions have become so over-used as to have at best very vague meanings.
'Right' and 'left' originally referred to positions with a monarch at the center. Today, what do 'right' and 'left' mean? In relation to what do they derive their orientation?

Ummm, the middle, obviously.